Hotels!!1 Allowed or not?

[cooba]

After another hotel upload on Jazz2Online, most of reviews were saying that they're not allowed, while admins say that they are. Are people saying that hotels aren't allowed because they think that each hotel is a uberpukey trash? Especially, that this (http://www.jazz2online.com/downloads/moreinfo.php?levelid=3084) one is so good, that if it would be done by Wisey, Super Saiyan or whoever was making hotels, I wouldn't be shocked.
Anyway, most of hotels were ugly and :r bad, but only few of them went out of J2O. The worst ones. And many stayed 'alive'. So - they ARE allowed.
Blackraptor and The WINNER are against hotels b'coz they are, in they <s>humble</s> opinion, worst uploads. And they says to people that they AREN'T allowed, so no one makes them. When they really would be spiffy.
After this all brainwashing, no one knows that hotels are allowed or not. Or, maybe we should go ahead and renew J2O rules<s>that nobody that is not an admin has seen</s>? And do something with these :-)/:( hotels? To make them NOT allowed? What ya think?

[$tilettø]

if you can upload hotels, then they are allowed. simple?

[cooba]

Stiletto, you are offtopic:

:-) :-) :( :-)

[Stijn]

What's the topic then?

I agree with Stiletto.

[cooba]

"Should admins change rules to make hotels allowed or not?"

[$tilettø]

No.

[cooba]

Don't say NO if it's YES.

OMG, again thread by myself is going to be flamewar.

[Nielsje]

I don't think hotels should be uploaded. I guess it is not the boringness of the toel what matters here: besides, the Wadledee Hotel is pretty good and funny if you like to make some fun sometimes. The main reason that hotel should not be uploaded in my opinion, is that it is useless to load them up.

The standard definition of a hotel in JJ2 terms is "a level hosted by the owner, wheere players can buy rooms by collecting coins et cetera, the owner of the level will edit the level after the buy" In this way, you can get rooms in levels, with furniture, and other people that join the hotel can see that you have a room in the hotel. Due to this edit mechanism, the level constantly changes. It's never the same.

When you upload a level to J2O, you always have it betatested and played (most of the time) until you have a perfect level, which is complete. Then, you load it up, and there's nothing more you can do for it. Hopefully you get a good rating and your level gets played a lot of times. See it as a child that you raise, but someday you have to have it go it's own way.

A hotel doens't have this perfection. It's constantly changing, and it does never reach a form of perfection. So if you upload it, the level could be totally different the next day and the player has to download it again. Levels like hotels are dynamic, and that's for me the main reason they never should be put on J2O. Not that they are BAD.

[cooba]

Finally! A type of reply that I highly wanted!

[NiQ]

Yes, allowed.

Does this topic make any sense, anyway?

[Stijn]

Finally! A type of reply that I highly wanted!
Scary.

[Trafton]

Just because many people do not like a sort of level does not mean that we cannot allow it. The answer is yes, hotels are allowed.

And, in the future, you may wish to make your poll less biased. Just have "yes" and "no"; people have opinions for varying reasons, and it is not always just what one personally thinks of a level type.

~ Traft

[FireSworD]

Should they be allowed?
Sounds like the answer should be simple, or is it?


True there are a lot of players who like hotels, and although
most of them have have just pretend gameplay, or some which use EvilMike's concept and have some (but still very little) gameplay involved. They are pretty much considered a true gametype, however there's no "Hotel" category on J2O. Some may argue that gametypes like Survivor don't have a category either.

Even though this is my biased opinion, I'd say no because they are just wasting space. Hotels are used by their creators. Some hotels like SSJ's Five Star hotel and that one by Haze are hosted by others, but on extremely rare occasions.

[mirrow]

J2O provides the download/ upload option for users to upload their files and let them review to see how good others think they are. Just because some don't like them there is no reason why they shouldn't upload them for others who do so. Fmany newcomers it is alot of fun in building/ maybe managing a hotel and they want to share it with others and are proud of it after it took them days to build it.
There are also other files i really don't like to be uploaded on J2O like all this jj1 remakes but still others like them and i don't whine because they may take a bit space on J2O why don't you just ignore them if you don't like them. They are j2l files like others and maybe even encourage people to use jcs.

[FireSworD]

Hotels are good for newcomers and are fun to build, however
if they want to know how good they are, they should ask their own
kind.

As for JJ1 or other conversions, yes, it is a rather cheap way to boost
your average rating (...:P), but they are usefull for others and are obviously used.
Unlike Hotels uploaded to J2O.

[MaGoo]

How about this: Only upload ORIGINAL hotels!

[cooba]

I totally

agree.

[Violet CLM]

As for JJ1 or other conversions, yes, it is a rather cheap way to boost
your average rating (...:P), but they are usefull for others and are obviously used.
...the average conversion has more time spent on it than the average level.


Hotels are ALLOWED ON J2O. There is no reason they should not be, but no, there's not much point to doing so.

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

:roll: They're allowed, one did you know tip is not the rules!

[Blackraptor]

They are allowed. I never said they wouldn't be allowed, I just said in my opinion most of them are horrible and just waste space on j2o.
People can upload them if they want, but I'm personally against it. It sorta makes me think of when I was in kindergarden (5 yrs old) and people were having imaginary hotels with dolls and stuff, and nearly all the hotels I've seen hosted have been levels made in 5 minutes that look like crap.

[FireSworD]

...the average conversion has more time spent on it than the average level.

Good point.

<strike>However, it's easier to make a conversion that can get as good as a rating as an original tileset of the same level of quality by Disguise or Agama</strike>

[Risp_old]

I cannot vote because neither of the answers answer the question. They both talk about how good hotels are, not if they should be allowed. In short, I agree with Trafton.

[Lark]

...the average conversion has more time spent on it than the average level.

As another person who makes lots of conversions, I must agree. =P My Keen 4 conversions took 13 days, whereas most of my CTF levels take about 4 - 5 days, sometimes a bit less, sometimes a bit more.

[wadledee]

I readed all this, and also I, wanted to say something.

Of course, I know most hotels are the whole time changing, but I say, most. Of course you remember the hotel Five Golden Star Hotel, and this was really good. If you look at my hotel, Wadle Deluxe Hotel(AM version), you would say: "Wow! What a nice hotel! It looks like Five GoldenStar, but it contains more stuff!" Many people says hotels are not allowed (*cough*Winner*cough*and more*) because they think they are allways boring. This is most of the times. You dont have to say in one way: 'Dont upload hotels, they are not allowed' or something, but just check the hotel first. NEVER, really NEVER review a lvl without looking to it. If you say: 'boring' and it's a great hotel (*like FiveGoldenStar*) you really miss the good things. :O
Also, I heard somebody saying download them only if they're original. Well, most hotels are allways original, but not really nice eyecandy. So of course everything is original.
So don't be scared to download hotels. Sometimes, they are ugly, but NEVER unoriginal or boring(well, only if the hotel doesn't have FunStuff like rollercoaster or games).

And yes:
HOTELS ARE ALLOWED!!!! ;-) ;) :lol: :roll:

[Violet CLM]

Roller coasters are so unoriginal by now they need a new twist or they'll die.


...however, why did you revive this topic exactly?

[Blackraptor]

...however, why did you revive this topic exactly?

He wanted to advertise his hotel =P.

[R3ptile]

YES HOTELS RUX I WANT MORE AND MORE HOTELS BECAUSE THEY RUX HAHA YESYES

[the WINNER]

yay my name is in a topic

When you upload a level to J2O, you always have it betatested and played (most of the time) until you have a perfect level, which is complete. Then, you load it up, and there's nothing more you can do for it. Hopefully you get a good rating and your level gets played a lot of times. See it as a child that you raise, but someday you have to have it go it's own way.
A hotel doens't have this perfection. It's constantly changing, and it does never reach a form of perfection. So if you upload it, the level could be totally different the next day and the player has to download it again. Levels like hotels are dynamic, and that's for me the main reason they never should be put on J2O. Not that they are BAD.

This is the main reason why they should NOT have been allowed. Don't put hotels on J2O. The reason is already stated on the quote. They are allowed, because the admins allow them for no real reason at all.

Of course, I know most hotels are the whole time changing, but I say, most. Of course you remember the hotel Five Golden Star Hotel, and this was really good.

Five Golden Star Hotel is an EXAMPLE LEVEL for Hotel Deluxe. It isn't a hotel like that. That's why it exists on J2O.

[Violet CLM]

Five Golden Star is NOT an example level. It's just a level made for a HOTEL LEVEL CONTEST. It also used Hotel Dream, not Hotel Deluxe, and both of those tilesets had their own example levels.


We allow them because they are .j2l files. Mainly.

[the WINNER]

Five Golden Star is NOT an example level. It's just a level made for a HOTEL LEVEL CONTEST. It also used Hotel Dream, not Hotel Deluxe, and both of those tilesets had their own example levels.


We allow them because they are .j2l files. Mainly.

Sorry, I was wrong, but still five golden star hotel isn't a CHANGING hotel. So if you upload a hotel to J2O, then never update it again except if bugs need fixing. That proves that it was pointless to upload that hotel in the first place, since it just calls re-uploading countless times, although JJ2 autodownloads it. Everything just proves DON'T UPLOAD NORMAL(changing) HOTELS TO J2O. PLEASE. Allowed, but waste of bandwidth.

[R3ptile]

Now seriously, don't upload hotels to J2O. If you want to show people your hotel, just host it! Use a decent tileset, and be original. None will review your hotel if you'll keep making noobish hotels and stuff.

[Violet CLM]

This is kind of off topic, but I must admit I find it amusing that Mike's take on hotels is actually regarded as "normal" now.



P.S. Look what happens when you change one little word:

Now seriously, don't upload Battle levels to J2O. If you want to show people your Battle level, just host it! Use a decent tileset, and be original. None will review your Battle level if you'll keep making noobish Battle levels and stuff.

Behold! No, I'm not sure what the point of that was.

[cooba]

Now seriously, don't upload fjsdklfjdklfjfkljfkljfkljfkljkjdf levels to J2O. If you want to show people your fjsdklfjdklfjfkljfkljfkljfkljkjdf level, just host it! Use a decent tileset, and be original. None will review your fjsdklfjdklfjfkljfkljfkljfkljkjdf level if you'll keep making noobish fjsdklfjdklfjfkljfkljfkljfkljkjdf levels and stuff.

Unnamed CTF Flibbertigibbetics blablabla.

R3p : Your new sig pwnz :)

http://content.collegehumor.com/news/dancing.gif lol.

[Odin]

I like hotels.

-Gets shot down-

Seroiusly, I like hotels. But uploading hotels on J2O, unless your purpose is like that of FiveGoldenStar, is like saying 'Dead Skeleton'. It's redundant, chiefly because you must reupload it countless times. And everyone here is too lazy to do that.

Hotels should be allowed. If you want to reupload it countless times, that's your problem.

-ThO

[R3ptile]

This is kind of off topic, but I must admit I find it amusing that Mike's take on hotels is actually regarded as "normal" now.



P.S. Look what happens when you change one little word:

Now seriously, don't upload Battle levels to J2O. If you want to show people your Battle level, just host it! Use a decent tileset, and be original. None will review your Battle level if you'll keep making noobish Battle levels and stuff.

Behold! No, I'm not sure what the point of that was.
Hotels are absolutly different. Shush.

[KRSplat]

Hotels should be allowed because they are levels for Jazz Jackrabbit 2. Actually, now that I think about it, what is a level? I think of it as something you get to by advancing through earlier levels and then have to beat to advance to the next level. By that definition, a hotel isn't a level. You don't really have to do anything in it. In a battle level, you have to beat other people to get to the next level (even if the next level is the same level.) In just about every other game type you actually compete to win and once there is a winner you go to the next level. Hotels are not a competition. In hotels, you usually just sit there in your room. So are hotels really the levels J2O's level section is looking for?

Actually, the "levels" title of the section is deceiving because almost anything involving JJ2 is accepted.

[MoonBlazE]

What is the point with most of the uploads, anyway. About 70% of all those uploads have never been hosted, and the rest of them are either popular or just hosted once and to be forgotten. I've only seen 1 of my uploaded tilesets being used, by Flash, out of 5. I just belive people like the concept of show off their creative abilities and recieve a rating as was it a school grade. I had some cool tilesets almost done, but because nobody ever really cared of my work I desided to stop working on them and just plain delete them.

On the subject of hotels, I find them beyond boring. What's the point with playing a game where there are no goal, no victory to achieve?

[Violet CLM]

@Moonblaze: Just because some uploads are never used doesn't mean all uploads are never used. Using your logic, nothing new would ever be made in any field in the world that has even the slightest possibility of rejection. Plus people get entertainment simply from looking at the tileset/playing the level OFFLINE.

P.S. The goal of hotels is to kill EVERYONE ELSE and have the SHEER RAW POWER to avoid being KILLED. It's kind of like Battle, only not in real time.

A level is a .j2l file. In the case of JJ2, anyway.

[MoonBlazE]

Just because some uploads are never used doesn't mean all uploads are never usedI never said every upload aren't 'used' in my original post, but the majority aren't 'hosted'. I only mentioned useage in subject of my own tilesets, which is a correct statement. It would be great if you would read what you're responding to before replying.

Besides, the goal of hotels totally depend on the host. If he hosts treasure mode and bans troublesome players, it isn't much of a battle. Otherwise, why would you host a hotel over a battle level then?

[Violet CLM]

I'm not exactly sure what your last sentence was supposed to mean, but I'll answer all the possibilities I can think of.

Why would you host a Hotel if it's a Battle? Not everyone likes high speed action. Some people play Real Time Strategy games, others play Turn Based Strategy, such as Civilization or... uhhh... something else! Plus, with hotels, you have about 22/23 hours (minimum) to think of your strategy for the next game, as opposed to point-five seconds.
Why would you host a Hotel that's not Battle?Why would you host CTF? Or Race? Or anything? Battle is not the only gametype.

...ok, that wasn't very many possibilities. Still.
On a side note, I used one of your tilesets once. In a level, which I think I showed to you. However, I never finished it because the tileset was far too limited. Quality tilesets get used. Really bad tilesets get used. Stuff inbetween is less likely to be used because there are better versions out there.

[MoonBlazE]

I really don't understand your anwser.

Why would you host a hotel level if your purpose is roasting enemy players? If you don't want high speed action, host a larger battle level for more room and space between players. Hotels are room based so pathin is hard and the gameplay isn't very suited with the layout then. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Also only poor level designers has to use quality tilesets. 'Limited tilesets', as you descripe it, can be used just as effective if you put thoughts into your work, just like in Evilmike's "I hate this tileset" battle level. That is the problem with most level designers, they're are too lazy to work up levels in such a manner when they just can pick an Agama tileset and make it look pretty without actually doing much original work.

[Stijn]

I'm not exactly sure what your last sentence was supposed to mean, but I'll answer all the possibilities I can think of.

Why would you host a Hotel if it's a Battle? Not everyone likes high speed action. Some people play Real Time Strategy games, others play Turn Based Strategy, such as Civilization or... uhhh... something else! Plus, with hotels, you have about 22/23 hours (minimum) to think of your strategy for the next game, as opposed to point-five seconds.
Why would you host a Hotel that's not Battle?Why would you host CTF? Or Race? Or anything? Battle is not the only gametype.

...ok, that wasn't very many possibilities. Still.
On a side note, I used one of your tilesets once. In a level, which I think I showed to you. However, I never finished it because the tileset was far too limited. Quality tilesets get used. Really bad tilesets get used. Stuff inbetween is less likely to be used because there are better versions out there.
I think Moonblaze's tilesets can be used to make a 1337 level with 1337 eyecandy. You just have to be a little creative. But after all, that's what makes levelmaking fun, isn't it?
For example, I made a level called "Raven Pride" (which can be found somewhere on the forum). I consider it as my best level so far, and it uses a quite limited tileset by (no surprise) Moonblaze.
I find most levels that use the 1337 Agama/Disguise tilesets looking boring (which is also the creator's fault, some levelmakers do really interesting stuff with those "mainstream tilesets", but anyway), while levels using obscure unknown tilesets in a good way are usually awesome and get a good rating. It all depends on the author, not on the tileset.

Also, I claim this page >)

[Violet CLM]

"Hotels are room based". You're thinking of generic hotels. I don't usually say this sort of thing, but my hotel was/is generally thought of as the best of the hotels, at least at the time, and a large portion of that was because I bothered to give the level design. Two 100 tile high buildings and a store with no navigation do not make a good hotel.

Mike's level used, if I recall, "Simple". Simple is not a great tileset. Simple is not a limiting tileset. Simple is not a bad tileset, but that's the category it's easiest to put it in. You can create all sorts of things with Simple.

I used YOUR TILESET in an attempt to create a level based on YOUR STORY which supposedly took place in THAT TILESET. I am not saying your tilesets would not work just fine (with the possible exception of, say, Lava Cave) for a GENERIC BATTLE LEVEL. I am saying that they ARE generic tilesets with nothing more than the basic tiles. MOSTLY. Stuff like the neon pink panther was cool, but for the most part they have nothing really new.

Flash: Did I never say middling tilesets made bad levels? No. If I did, sorry. What I said was that middling tilesets just don't get used as much. Because I keep mentioning my own stuff, I'll use one of my levels as an example:
I once made a battle level using Radium's Cornflake01 tileset. In case you're not familiar with the tileset, it uses approximately six colors and the available tiles mainly consist of a bowl, a single color spoon and some floating cornflake tiles. The level did not have the best design, and I could probably do better now. That part was MY fault. However, the tileset did not have slopes, or any horizontal/verticle tiles, which are the main sources for creative design/eyecandy. There was not much you could do with it.
Now let's look at Spacey Universe. This tileset is also limited, but less so, because of the lack of animations. It's also kind of low on block merging tiles. However, Spacey Universe is one of the best tilesets in existence for creative design and eyecandy. I'm not sure I've seen two levels using that tileset which are the same in any way.

[NinJazz]

Wakarimasen... what is hotel?

[cooba]

STOP REVIVE OLD SUX THREADS YOU NOOB

[White Rabbit]

Most hotels are crap, but they should still be allowed. Good ones can be really fun and original to play in. GO HOTELS! :D

[Dingo]

What are HOTELS!

[cooba]

Stop reviving my threads, dolt. >_<

[Dingo]

just answer my question

[Dingo]

PLEASE?

[Violet CLM]

Hotels are typically one of two things.

"City" type hotels: A big level with various places in it, called "rooms", with names above them indicating that these rooms belong to certain people. You get a room by asking the maker of the level. To make the level be more interesting, there will typically be also such features as roller coasters, pools, games, race tracks, and other random entertainment.
"EvilMike" type hotels: A big level, typically with several buildings in it. Each building will have several rooms of about medium size, which can typicallly be enlarged later. The level is filled with generating coins, and most of your time will be spent gathering coins. When you have enough coins, assuming there is empty space in the level, you can buy a room, and then later use more coins to furnish your room. Other possibilities include destroying other peoples' furniture or rooms, minigames or contests to win special awards, or banks where you can loan other people money.

"City" type hotels aren't hosted much anymore.

[Tubz]

This is easy logic. Hotels are allowed, most people do not like hotels, that is why they probably said that. They don't like hotels, because they either or both don't like the concept, or because some hotels are designed poorly. My hotels are great, and everyone who actually came to my server when I hosted it always gave me good remarks (old and new JJ2 comunity members). But I upload it on J2O and I get about a 7 in rating. People don't know how to rate, that is the problem.