I got some feedback right here

[TheOne]

You know what's really cool about the internet? It takes people's basic freedoms to the next level, the place is like Anarchy that works. You never have to worry about people telling you what you're not allowed to say or do, you never have to worry about whether your opinion will offend another person because it's assumed that people have the mental strength to take criticism. They also have this in the
real world. It's called "Freedom of Speech". It basically means I can say whatever I want whenever I want without any fear of repercussions. True, I can't go crazy with verbal abuse on someone, because, well, that's verbal abuse, I can go to prison for that. But it does mean that no one will care whether or not I tell someone to stop being an idiot, or to shut the hell up.

What I find utterly bizarre about this community is, that instead of embracing these simple freedoms, it shuts them away. Bannings for telling someone to shut up, painting someone a racist for posting a picture of an indian guy. Censors for swearing and posts edited to keep everything nice and friendly, because people's real opinions should be hidden from the world. The truth is a nasty and evil thing, right guys? I've got some truth right here.


Extreme content edit, much of the post had to be removed there was no way to edit it for content. You are well aware of the rules in place on the board, please do not ignore them.

[Hazel-rah]

Amen, brother.

Silencing people is their way and nothing is going to change it. They're in control.

I see you have broken your chains. :) Feels good, doesn't it?

[cooba]

Admins, close this grotesque. And ban that person who thinks Internet belongs to him.

Content edit. Please do not bypass the filter.

[Nimrod]

I agree with this guy "TheOne", in a lot of ways, although towards the end it goes a little to far.

And Cooba, please dont suck up to admins, I hardly think because he agrees with a lot of us that the internet is about freedom, that he thinks the internet belongs to him. I dont see your logic here.

[Chiyu]

Couldn't agree more. The recent happenings on the JCF made me think about it as well, and TheOne puts it nicely. Some people really have to grow up... I would have given about three names now but since it'll get edited anyway, why bother.

If the admins think this post is intolerable, they should edit it, but not delete it, IMO.

[Blackraptor]

Ignoring my personal thoughts to this topic (I actually agree with some of it, but there's a lot of unneeded crap which just makes it sound like you're (-) and trying to intentionally (-) people off) I'd just say if you don't like the forum, don't post on it. Plenty of other less moderated forums out there which would love to hear your opinion.

[Radium]

As longwindedly as possible, I will attempt to explain my views on the internet, including a very good (at least in my humble opinion) argument about why you are completely retarded.
First of all, let's clear up some misconceptions. The internet is not a place. It is not a country, and it has no government. The internet consists of a bunch of servers hooked together. Some people own rights to put data on these servers, creating websites. Much like I own Foxmage.com, FQuist owns Jazz2online.com. The person who owns a website gets to put whatever he wants there, within certain legal boundries. FQuist, however, has scripts that let <i>other people</i> put stuff on his website.
Now, I don't have to worry about people spamming my forums and uploading bad stuff, because Foxmage.com <i>has</i> no forums. If my website <i>did</i> have forums, I would be letting you store data on something I pay money for. I would have the legal right to delete or modify the data as pleased. In short, I would be letting you use something I pay for.
What you call "freedom of speech" is more like "Vandalism".

Now, I regularly visit three forums, this one included. Of the forums I visit, this one has the most moderation. And of the forums I visit, this one has the most spam, fighting, etc.
No, the other two forums aren't "kiddy forums" - on the contrary, they consist mostly of older people. Fact is, I hate teenagers (myself included, I guess). Teenagers have this twisted interpretation of laws and the annoying tendancy to think they're right. Face it, kids - older people are smarter than you, and more mature. If you are honestly going to, when you're older, tell your children about your great battles on forums, you deserve to die and get an award for doing so. When you reach a certain age, being angsty will stop being fun.

Now, allow me to verbalize my views on cursing. First of all, they're words. Yeah, I know your response is "then you shouldn't care if I use them". Here's my response: <b>use them right or use another word.</b>
Now, above I believe you described me ("me" being the reader in general) as a female reproductive organ which is having sex. My respect for you would have been so much more if you had called me a "mindless follower". Yeah, it doesn't sound as "rad" or "hip" (excuse my terminology if it's outdated), but it is the phrase you were looking for. You seem to be cursing for "shock value". Sorry, but I am not impressed by your misuse of the English language. Now, let's go over some common misused words for future reference so you can look more intelligent in your next rant.
(-) - Verb meaning "to have sex with".
(-) - Female reproductive organ. Or cat. But let's not get too complicated.
(-) - Female dog.
A proper sentence would have been something like "(/-) the woman". If you want to look like an idiot by misusing words, by all means. I won't cry. I will laugh. And I thank you for bringing me amusement.

So in conclusion, if you wish to exercise "freedom of speech", purchase a website and upload content. If you wish, I can host your rant on Foxmage.com. However, nobody will see it. And I might be an extreme, sissy admin by deleting it. And hell, for all I know, I might even change it. But until you shell out a hundred a year for hosting, stop complaining about what we do with our websites.

Derby: Filter bypass clearance. Partially filtered text was removed.

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

Nearly all of the rules on the board can be derived from the principle that we want to stay within the law and remain a "family friendly" message board. Filtering and swearing has always been in place on the Jazz community message boards - if you want to discuss topics in a mature only environment there are many message boards on the internet.

It's called "Freedom of Speech". It basically means I can say whatever I want whenever I want without any fear of repercussions. True, I can't go crazy with verbal abuse on someone, because, well, that's verbal abuse, I can go to prison for that. But it does mean that no one will care whether or not I tell someone to stop being an idiot, or to shut the hell up.
Freedom of speech is a part of the world but despite that there are social norms which you have to conform to as well. I highly doubt that in the real world you want to go around insulting them you are likely to get yourself in fights. On the internet forums these fights will just play out through massive flame wars which benefit neither those involved or the community. If you need to criticize someone excessively I suggest you find another medium for communication.

Bannings for telling someone to shut up, painting someone a racist for posting a picture of an indian guy.
I am not sure of what you are referring to.

Censors for swearing and posts edited to keep everything nice and friendly, because people's real opinions should be hidden from the world. The truth is a nasty and evil thing, right guys? I've got some truth right here.
Swearing is part of the family friendly. If you really need to say something appropriate I think you should be able to express yourself effectively with other words.

[Nimrod]

But until you shell out a hundred a year for hosting, stop complaining about what we do with our websites.

Hundred a year?

You get ripped off :lol:

[Radium]

Hundred a year?

You get ripped off :lol:
What can I say? I like knowing I won't run out of space or bandwidth. Free space gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

[Torkell]

It is perfectly possible to get an opinion across without swearing. Sure, it may take some more effort to write a good argument or rant without swearing, but it's usually worth it.

And let's not confuse editing to keep things family friendly (which nowadays is debatable - swearing appears to be the 'in' thing amongst the townies) with *true* censorship. Editing to keep things family friendly would involve removing the swearing and personal attacks. Censorship would be deleting all your posts, or editing them so what you typed isn't what others see. A pratical demonstration can be arranged if you troll on my lj.

[Risp_old]

Why would someone register just to complain about not being able to curse on other's private property? I mean, I can imagine this if somebody registered, got into arguments and tried to curse and stuff, then got mad that their 'freedom of speech' got curtailed. But joining just to complain?

[Radium]

Why would someone register just to complain about not being able to curse on other's private property? I mean, I can imagine this if somebody registered, got into arguments and tried to curse and stuff, then got mad that their 'freedom of speech' got curtailed. But joining just to complain?
He probably just wanted to complain under a new account because he doesn't know about IPs.

[Violet CLM]

This topic has some up before, and the general answer remains the same. This is not public property. This is Fquist's property. If Fquist doesn't like you posting something, don't post it. If the owner of a house doesn't like you painting big red german words all over their walls, don't paint them. The fact is that Fquist has no obligation to provide you with a space to say anything, especially when that space already exists and is called "Earth".

[Link]

I'd like to stress what BoggyB said: This is not censorship. We don't edit or disallow anyone's ideas. Rather we make a positive discussion environment by disallowing certain negative content. If you can't express your ideas without swearing or personal attacks, that's your problem and not ours.

It's true that certain subjects aren't allowed, but this is an all-ages family message board that must also be within the law and our hosting provider's terms of service.

[Hazel-rah]

Perhaps he was refering to all aspects of the community, not just JCF.

If so I agree with him. If not then... well.. that's something else. I have no idea how many "Dads with their kids" come here... nor do I think we should cater to such a small group of people. But if that's what FQuist wants to do then he has every right to, of course.

[Trafton]

It isn't a question of whether something is kid-friendly. It's a question of what sort of environment we want to keep here. Show me another site that allows swearing that is not infested with spam and personal attacks and I will be very surprised. There are a few cases, but those require excessive administration or really odd administrative structures.

The JCF has a pretty good environment, I'd say. People are free to say what they want, as long as it does not detract from the environment. I have never seen a valid opinion that cannot be expressed without breaking the forum rules.

[FQuist]

I might note that I do not own any of these sites nor am I the main leader on the JCF. All admins have the same amount of power basically. Bobby is owner of the hosting account and pays for it. I am just the owner of the domain name.

Like Link said, we do not censor views. Some subjects are indeed disallowed, but that is then the entire subject and not a certain opinion (unless it's one against the law, or our host's terms of service, like fascism).

[Monolith]

You know what's also cool about the internet? You can always go somewhere else if you don't like it here.

[Stijn]

Bannings for telling someone to shut up, painting someone a racist for posting a picture of an indian guy.

ChavRash said Nimrod was a racist for posting that picture. Both don't have any power at the JCF.

[Nimrod]

You know what's also cool about the internet? You can always go somewhere else if you don't like it here.

Don't think theres any competion :lol:
This kinda has the monopoly...



At the end of the day, Most of us respect this is not our property, but theres nothing wrong with feedback.. This section clearly says "Feedback", and this is what you got. Instead of saying "your view isnt wanted", you could perhaps just listen to the view even if you dont agree. (Although TheOne could do without swearing towards the end to get his view across)

Thats my two cents.

[Tubz]

Wow, a topic usually occurs in Misc. Stuff. Um, all I have to say, is that he's a new member, and that he needs to actualy be here for a while and associate with everyone and see how things are before judging it. This is a bad and good board in a lot of ways. He named some bad parts about the board. I.e. like not being able to use profanity. I think he was mislead, when he said about the Indian picture, because people do that type of thing all the time, I never do, it depends on what the picture is about. There is a certain line that you can only go so far with the admins, before It's crossed. This is basically for everything.

[White Rabbit]

I agree with TheOne but J2o and the JCF are privately owned. The admins can do what the heck they want because the forums belong to them, we just post here. If the admins set rules for their forums then we must abide by them or go somewhere else, maybe to a real public forum if you want to unleash your wrath.

[Tubz]

Yep, if we all didn't like the JCF. We would have to make our own board, and get people to join somehow.

[Stijn]

And then the owner of the new board would also make rules and not everyone would agree with them and they would create a new board and the owner of that board would make rules and...

[Enigma]

When talking about freedom of expression, there's always this subtle difference between "OMG I SWEAR, I REBEL LOL" and actually saying something significant. Rather than telling someone to shut up, you may want to tell them why exactly you think (emphasis on think; what you think is stupid may make perfect sense to other people) they're morons. I know, that takes 2 minutes longer than typing "shut up", but it tends to prevent topics from derailing into back and forth "shut up"s from all posters. It may surprise you to find that some people don't like having to search a topic for rare posts that make sense in a sea of swearing and personal attacks. Imho, it's perfectly possible to get a point accross without profanity or insulting people. It seems odd that most complaints about lack of freedom of expression often seem to come from the same people who don't deal with the opinion of others very well.

Or, shorter said: people pay for site, rest of us don't. People who pay own site and can make rules that they feel are right. I have always loved the JCF because it isn't drowning in profanity, swearing and personal attacks, unlike many other forums, and it would be nice to keep it that way.

[CelL]

I'll make this short, mostly because otherwise I'd be repeating what most other people said anyway.. If you don't like it here, go somewhere else instead of bugging us about it; as has been said, this site is privately owned, so the owners and the people empowered by them (ergo, the mods and admins) can do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing you can do about it. In case you wanted to know, out of the few forums I've been to, this place is one of the more lenient ones; making nonsensical posts and the like is generaly tolerated here if it doesn't get out of hand. I could easily point out a few forums were topics like word association are considered complete spam.

Oh, and if you're really so deadset about getting your opinion about how this place sucks across to the general public, it might be wisest to do this without swearing in every other sentence, since the only thing this will lead to is having the half of your topic deleted.

[White Rabbit]

Yeah! And I can make completely off-topical posts and nobody would care! :D :D ++JCF.

sdjkadajkdak
adakldhadasdkahdkas
dkasjdhasjkdahskdashd
askljdhaskdjhaskdasdkasj
asjkdhaka
sdlfkfsldfjsdfjsdlfsdlfjsdlfslfs
fklsjfsdkljsklfjsdlfjsdlfjsdlfsdlds

See? I don't see any admins rushing at me with dynamite, axes, cannons, not even a bit of gunpowder. ;)

[Hazel-rah]

They're waiting for a new shipment. They ran out. 8D

[Odin]

They're waiting for a new shipment. They ran out. 8D

Don't you just love taking the Internet seriously?

[Nimrod]

Heh, I love the way that someone gives some feedback, and people complain saying they dont have a right.

This forum clearly says Feedback in the name, thats what someone gave...

[Trafton]

Heh, I love the way that someone gives some feedback, and people complain saying they dont have a right.

This forum clearly says Feedback in the name, thats what someone gave...
I do not think anyone has really said that, except Tublear, who has failed to realize this is just an old member posting anonymously.

[Stijn]

I do not think anyone has really said that, except Tublear, who has failed to realize this is just an old member posting anonymously.

I'd say it's pretty obvious Tublear (and me and probably lots of others) didn't realize that since we don't have the cool "inside info" you seem to have http://www.insidegamer.nl/forum/images/smiles/icon_duh.gif

[Hazel-rah]

Inside info? It's obviously not someone new. Can't you tell?

Their name is....... I'll be quiet...

Just an opportunity for them to vent. :)

[Tubz]

If what Trafton is saying is true, then yes, I didn't know that he wasn 'old' member posting. Besides, It's obvious what Nimrod said is right, this is a feedback forum and what he gave was feedback. Possibly constructive criticism.

BTW, I love it how Trafton always seems to know everything about the JCF and the admins and mods, when he's not even one. Ask him anything.

[Tubz]

I still think this guy who posted this topic shoudl come back, and say something to everyone.

[Iam Canadian]

Forgive me for sounding like a broken record here, but J2O and the JCF is private property, and as such, can be run by its owner in any way he chooses. Think of this more as a dictatorship than a democracy. However, this is an intelligent dictatorship: it only silences obviously offensive stuff. As for the swearing thing, is swearing really necessary? I rarely swear, as I find other ways to express things besides using profanity. There are other words out there besides swears. (Which should be told to the people at my school...)

[Newspaz]

My personal opinion is that TheOne should be a man, and complain using his own account. Don't play hide and seek man.

[Torkell]

Think of this more as a dictatorship than a democracy. However, this is an intelligent dictatorship: it only silences obviously offensive stuff.
A friend of mine helps admin a larger site, and the admins there are described as running a benigin dictatorship. They can do what they like, but as long as the members play nice then the admins won't do anything.

There are other words out there besides swears. (Which should be told to the people at my school...)
The current 14-18 attitude appears to be "swear to prove you're tough". That does not work well online, as admins can quite easily use the policy of "swear to prove you're an idiot in need of banning".

[Tubz]

Communism = AGN (Armageddon Games Forum)

Worst forum on the whole web, probably.

[FQuist]

There's a communist games forum? Do they like, share all the money and have no property?

[Blackraptor]

I think he meant that the admins decide what to do themselves and the users have no voice on the decisions =P.

[Iam Canadian]

In my opinion, if you think you need a profanity to express yourself, what you really need is a thesauraus.

[Odin]

Speaking of bad forums, one of the worst i've ever been to is BZPower (http://www.bzpower.com/), mostly because the admins there are really stupid, the user base there can't type out a coherent setence to save their life, and after two thirds of a year there, I became 'restricted' because I "advertised a forum". It's like BZPower tries to hide the existance of the Internet to all their members.

[Tubz]

Yes, I almost got banned 3 times. Lol, because their totally biased, and wrong. I had 3 accounts on there: Coder GT, Rapcore, Direct Efx. Coder GT got banned first, then Rapcore. I made them all at very various times.