JJ2WC II, Is R3ptile really a good supervisor?

[Grytolle]

[Please don't post private conversations on this forum without the express permission from the author. Thank you. -FQuist]

Derby: Content removal. Partial breaches of privacy are disallowed because the content of the parts left private can be discovered through making inferences from the permitted content. You will receive a full warning for this because the damage was done through the reinitialization of an offense. This would otherwise be a dual warning.

[Vegito]

Hmpf...
I am not gonna say anything about this.
Only that R3ptile is abusing his power. >_>

[Yasco]

I just want to say that I want that CC participates in JJ2WC season 2 and that R3ptile shouldn't act like this...

[Anakin[CC]]

omg dudes, (-) Jj2WC and make a new "official World Cup" Clan tourney and ban Reptile from it, Problem solved :).

[Yasco]

Reptile may arrange this IMO , but he has to do it fairly

[Grytolle]

Reptile may arrange this IMO , but he has to do it fairly

Exactly my opinion. Alltho it wouldnt hurt if someone else took it over... For example Shadow...

[Vegito]

Thats a problem..
Fair.
and CC just participates in JJ2WC II
even if R3ptile doesn't want that.
personal problems must not be a reason for this.

[Chiyu]

Yasco wishes that CC participates in JJ2WC II, so indeed we're planning to.

A supervisor of a tournament like this shouldn't act on personal feelings, and should be neutral at all times. CC has done nothing wrong in the last tournament JJ2WC I that would get us blocked from this tournament JJ2WC II, simply because we did not participate in that one. And for your information, CC is still one of the most active clans on JJ2. Not letting CC play would be eliminating a part of the competition for the other clans, and would give a wrong vision of the clans there are on JJ2.

I also suggest that Shadow/Ins0mnia (GpW's leader) takes it over again, as he was the original person to come up with it. At least he's not biased.

[Nielsje]

I suggest we use multiple organizers for the next JJ2WC, perhaps a system like JDC

[Anakin[CC]]

Omg keeping CC out of Jj2 World Cup is like banning Brasil from World Cup Soccer.
( "but Brasil did do nothing wrong" so ? did CC ? no. )

Remember that Reptile hosted most of the Euro events at JDC, while i only have once ( and evreyone said my server was very good and almost no one had lag )
But Reptile didnt let me host since he didnt like me ( so since a personal metter he rather had evreyone having lag, than a good JDC event ) Second reason was the server adv ofcource, while he didnt pass me in the overal list after all :).

Shadow taking it over looks like a good idea to me, at this way, Reptile cant make a baised mappool.

[ShadowGPW]

Thats pretty cowcrap, i'm not pleased with this situation.

[Sasik]

OMG. CC always makes some troubles and complains about everything. JJ2WC worked fine. R3ptile did well his job. If you don't want you DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY in next edition. Just go away and play your new clanwars in DW, Semi and distopia. GL HF.
And as I saw, he ONLY said that CC probably won't participate, he didn't say that he will forbid CC play in next edtion.

[Vegito]

OMG. CC always makes some troubles and complains about everything. JJ2WC worked fine. R3ptile did well his job. If you don't want you DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY in next edition. Just go away and play your new clanwars in DW, Semi and distopia. GL HF.
And as I saw, he just said that CC probably won't participate, he didn't say that he will forbid CC play in next edtion.


Actually, it was NOT CC which made troubles.
It was r3ptile which did that.
We WANT to play in this edition.
We do play more lvls then Disto, Semi and DW, but not in the CW vs VS.
u choose DW, we choose Semi.
easy..
And he said that we did not play in this tourney..
And we didnt even said we would not.


this situation sux idd.

[Nimrod]

Thats pretty cowcrap, i'm not pleased with this situation.

Me neither,

Seems to me like a case of Power Abuse.


I still think JJ2WC should have multiple "high" level admins, not one Admin and many sub-admins. Then in a case like this, if one admin power abuses, they could be quickly removed. Like JDC, which works out nicely and free from things like this.


OMG. CC always makes some troubles and complains about everything.

It doesnt appear to be just CC, when I came here I found my clan leader (GpW) agreeing its bad. And I also, from GpW, agree its bad.

[Enigma]

The excerpt of the conversation you posted is a pretty short one. It only proves that Reptile thinks CC won't be participating. It doesn't tell if that's a) because he won't let them in, or b) because he thinks CC isn't interested.

Frankly, I have a bit of a problem with believing option a. I mean, the way the first rounds are organised (i.e. a system with groups), there is practically no limit on the number of clans participating (I mean, if it was a knockout tournament, you'd need 4, 8, 16,... participants. But with a group system, there's a way to divide almost any number of clans into groups (and even for the annoying numbers 7 and 11: so what if there's one more clan in one of the groups, it's chosen randomly)). Ergo, there is no reason to deny active clans access to the tournament.

So, my question to the angry mob of CCers is: did Reptile explicitly state that he doesn't want CC in his tournament, or is there a chance that someone told him you weren't interested and that you drew the wrong conclusion when he said you weren't playing?

[blurredd]

Like JDC, which works out nicely and free from things like this.
Too bad JDC is still having problems with the scoring system.

And I agree with what Enigma posted, but Reptile has to be more careful of what he says in the future.

[[GpW]Urbs]

This is an unfair and all out attack on reptile from the forces of the CC empire. Why do you all of a sudden want to participate, when you always said you wont play in it? I urged you guys to play and you said, no we dont like rep. Then I said fine, have your fun, dont play and be different from everyone what do I care?
CC always wanted a non Rep cup cuz they dont get along with him. Well dudes, you think I get along 100 percent with him? U think I wasnt mad, when he changed the scoring system? U think I wasnt mad when he bothered us about our team roster? But I sorted it all out. You know why? Cuz I aproached him with a firendly attitude. He is very reasonable if handled nicely. Anyway I'm sure that rep will watch his tongue, and let CC participate(since when do you want 2 participate???), cuz I'm sure we all want a higher standard in the season 2(uhm 1st season pwned btw, it really was one of the best things that happened in 04, those who weren't part of it are sceptical, but trust me jj2wc pwns).
Now I fully understand CC feeling weary of rep as sup, cuz they dont like him. I get it. I also get why they want a tournament by some1 else. But guys, rep as sup can hardly be biased towards you, if you play well. To prove my point, rep's clan didnt even make it to the semi finals in season 1.
It's also known that CB and crew on one hand and Rep and his crew on the other can be contraversial, but guys, think whats best for the community here!!! We want another jj2wc, we want it to work. Rep made it work, now he has sasik and skull to start with, who will all help him. A nice gesture would be like, letting nimrod(cc and gpw) or another CCer to be one of the sups, so that the CC crew chills.
Where do we stand?
I'm for rep, cuz he already made it work, and I hardly see anothe person with the wilol to do it atm. Don't fix what works.
I also agree that Rep should try to be at least a lil friendlier to CC, so as that they play, cuz with it, his tournament will reach the highest possible level on this game.
Why rep said cc wont play? Simply cuz CC never showed andy interest, and now they're suddenly all for it. Dudes everyone want's to see you play, us most of all.
To conclude, you're all homo sapiens, work things out, you dont need 2 like one another, just get things sorted so that you play and rep keeps this torunament, cuz he obviously has the time(which for example I havent) and the will.
And for the CC wars, sasik could be sup, so as that rep cant be biased(which he cant be in any other way, except for the flagbugs... which arent his fault).
BTW some people shouldnt be talking about power abuse, if they had problems cuz of it themselves...

[Newspaz]

Can anyone explain me why Reptile has got to abandon the organisation his own tournament? Urbs explains me it's because otherwise CC doesn't want to play.

Urbs and I just were talking and we decided that GpW will not play JJ2:WC without Rep. Because we feel the project is his.

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

Too bad JDC is still having problems with the scoring system.

And I agree with what Enigma posted, but Reptile has to be more careful of what he says in the future.

The JDC scoring system could always just go back to opponent quality like it was the season before last and that would be better than last season. However, we have always liked to change the scoring system a little and try to tweak results - chances are that if there is another season it will involve a few changes.

I still think JJ2WC should have multiple "high" level admins, not one Admin and many sub-admins. Then in a case like this, if one admin power abuses, they could be quickly removed. Like JDC, which works out nicely and free from things like this.

At some point you still need someone to have complete control over the organization. It is the duty of that person to not react in extreme measures or act irrationally. With JDC I am the only admin who could not be "removed" since I have FTP control; however, all admins should not and never have put themselves in a situation where I would even consider this.

<font size=1>Heck I could even ban Fquist from all of J2O but I don't think that is going to happen. ;)</font>

[[GpW]Urbs]

Uhm I gotta agree with Bob. There always need to be a capo di tuti capi, now I agree Bob and rep are really different, but where they aint different is they both get the job done...And thats basicly why we need admins, to see the tournament through neatly. So ++rep for jj2wc and ++ bob for jdc.
Again, dont change sumthing that works.
As for this cc and and rep problemo, make a cease fire, so that we get CC to play in jj2wc(good decision on FINNALY wanting to join).

[Blackraptor]

Actually, I think YOU are being very low by cutting this out from a PRIVATE conversation on MSN, that didnt even clearly saw if r3ptile was banning CC or if they just wouldn't participate. But, none of my buisness anyways, so...=).

[White Rabbit]

Can someone tell me the history of Reptile's relationshup with CC and why they don't get along?

[[GpW]Urbs]

dunno the history, but atm it's code red....

[Newspaz]

AFAIK, CC just doesn't want to play because they feel Reptile discriminates them.

[White Rabbit]

But why? :/

[Sasik]

Probably because he doesn't want DW, Distopia and Semi in Next JJ2WC. He banned these lvls from jj2wc, so maybe he thought that CC won't participate in JJ2WC then :p

Btw. I fully agree with Enigma and Urbs. And I don't think that R3p doesn't really want to see CC in his tournament.
In my opinion we should just wait for R3ptile's post.

[Nimrod]

Actually, I think YOU are being very low by cutting this out from a PRIVATE conversation on MSN

Heh, I gotta agree there.

Even thou I dont agree with what Reptile said (Although I'm waiting for him to claify what he meant), i gotta agree that one on one chats on msn, are meant for the sender and receipt to see, not the whole world.

On MSN, with the built in logging it clearly says logs shouldnt be passed around and logging is only used for personal benefit (eg, remembering something said in a Conversation)

In future Gry, please do actually ask all people involved in a conversation, if its ok to post the conversation word for word.

[FQuist]

I removed the private conversation. Please never post private conversations on the JCF without people's express permission.

My own opinion, not as an admin, on this matter: If the tournament organisation bans one clan from participating, but not for abuse/rulebreaking, just for personal dislike, any clan that behaves ethically should boycot the tourney. Good clans should not choose to involve themselves with such practices.

But let's wait with what R3ptile has to say.

[Grytolle]

Firstly:
Any statement that reptile makes about JJ2WC II must be counted as official, since he's the dictator of the tournament. Therefore I dont think it was wrong to publish the chatlog (which actually Yasco were the one to give out in the first place).

Secondly:
Reptile has joked about jj2wc before, for example he banned me twice :P, but this time it was serious, as you who had time to read, before admins removed the convo, saw.

Thirdly:
If R3ptile gets to decide the mappool on his own...
...Well, then he shouldnt be allowed to participate as a player.

4:
Why not make a bigger mappool, w/ all commmon lvls? Or why not let each clan pick one lvl each? Out of lvls that most clans know, I mean. Atm, semi seems to be the most frequently played lvl, so why shouldnt it be in JJ2WC?

At last:
[Please don't post private conversations on this forum without the express permission from the author. Thank you. -FQuist]

Since I had Yasco's permission; Can I post the things he said?

btw... I created the chatlog. Hence I am the author;D My writing was only inspired "a little" by R3ptile and Yasco =P

@ people who feel offended by me quoting R3ptile:
Being hung out in media is part of being an important person.

[Nimrod]

Urbs']This is an unfair and all out attack on reptile from the forces of the CC empire.

And GpW, your own clan.



Urbs and I just were talking and we decided that GpW will not play JJ2:WC without Rep. Because we feel the project is his.

The Clan leader seems to think otherwise.


any clan that behaves ethically should boycot the tourney. Good clans should not choose to involve themselves with such practices.

Indeed, lets hope if Reptile does actually do such a thing, GpW as a whole will be a good clan and refuse to be involved, even if some members are shameful enough to want to play in it.

[ShadowGPW]

I'm not against Rep but i'm against leaving out clans without any solid reason how so ever. I can't remember anyrule to leave them out. Even though if you dont like the team your still not allowed to leave people out in an Open Cup.

I will not let our people play with my tag in that cup.

[Chiyu]

Just go away and play your new clanwars in DW, Semi and distopia.

Sasik... How many times do I have to tell you that we're not only playing in those levels? The fact that they're our favourite levels doesn't mean we won't play in anything else. Doesn't everyone have their favourite levels?

Why do you all of a sudden want to participate, when you always said you wont play in it?

Urbs... How can you call this "all of a sudden"? A few days before the last match of JJ2WC (DM-FoR) in late November, I had a conversation with Reptile and (for my part) solved our problems. Since then I've been thinking (and talking) about it. Your suggestion helped as well ;). The final decision/statement to participate in it was made on Sunday, 26 December 2004, in a conversation between me and the GameLeader Vegito (at 14:36:05 my time, for those interested). That's more than a week ago already. And our team's ready for it...

Urbs explains me it's because otherwise CC doesn't want to play.
AFAIK, CC just doesn't want to play because they feel Reptile discriminates them.

Urbs and Newspaz... These statements do not make much sense. Isn't this topic about how much CC wants to play in JJ2WC? About how discriminated we would feel if we didn't get to play in it? You're turning things around here...



Conclusion for those who still don't understand what CC is trying to say

We are planning to take place in this cup, just like every other clan. I don't like feeling left out, and I'd hate to see that happen to CC.
We will participate without any conditions. Taking out the levels that CC likes to play or is best in? If that's really that important to you, be my guest.
But measures like that won't mean us not playing in this cup. What have we got to lose? ..... Nothing.
We'll just play our games, win them or lose them, but we'll fight with honour, always... And I'll just have to see how well my team will do, even if all the odds are against us. :)

I'm going to be away for 2 or 3 days as of now, won't be able to reply to this topic for a while. Same with the coleader and gameleader (Anakin and Vegito). So while I'm gone, Nimrod will be my substitute as general leader of CC. If you have any questions or need help, please turn to him.



By the way: thanks GpW (Shad & Nim), I really appreciate the support you're willing to give if Reptile's really going to ban CC from this tournament. :)

[Superjazz]

I would really like that there were at least 3 other supervisors than Rep, so he wouldn't be a dictator-like for jj2wc II as in the first one where SkulL had only a little rights of things he could do in that tournament. Supervisors should be somebody else than Rep's best friends or this mono-control will continue on and on. I'm not against Rep neither, however

No mappools, k plz thx.
I would recommend that all the clans would play in the same group against each other. Each clan would have one match per week at the weekend(Friday and Saturday), then all those supervisors would take turns on choosing a specific level for each week and all clans would play in it although they wouldn't want, or then surrender. Their fault if they don't know any other levels and let them to be unknown for the clans themselves. Ok CB I didn't mean your clan any more with this than any other clan. I believe your message, don't start flaming me. ;)

Just usual if some clan doesn't have some maps in their knowledge when a match is beginning, that's their funeral.

[snzspeed]

']

Remember that Reptile hosted most of the Euro events at JDC, while i only have once ( and evreyone said my server was very good and almost no one had lag )


you werent an jdc official.. R3ptile was.. :)

[R3ptile]

I agree with those opinions:

So, my question to the angry mob of CCers is: did Reptile explicitly state that he doesn't want CC in his tournament, or is there a chance that someone told him you weren't interested and that you drew the wrong conclusion when he said you weren't playing?

Actually, I think YOU are being very low by cutting this out from a PRIVATE conversation on MSN, that didnt even clearly saw if r3ptile was banning CC or if they just wouldn't participate.
If you have any questions, you can always contact me through MSN\ICQ\mIRC. Thank you.

@Yasco: I had a feeling you are copying our conversion to other people.
@Grytolle: I believe you are going to ask an administrator to close this topic now.

Edit: This thread should be moved to Comedy Cafe.

Another edit: For mappool, tournament layout, rules, etc... go to JJ2WC II Suggestions topic.

[Grytolle]

Just usual if some clan doesn't have some maps in their knowledge when a match is beginning, that's their funeral.

Doesn't disturbe me much never having played a lvl before ;D

@Snooze:
How important...

[Yasco]

(-)...plz don't start flamewars...I just want that CC MAY participate in the nect season of JJ2WC , no more no less....

[snzspeed]

@Snooze:
How important...

more important than you :+

[Stijn]

Reptile, could you please make an official statement regarding CC's position? It would clear some things up.

[[GpW]Urbs]

I dont have the time of will to refute any of the statements above, but what I wanna hear is rep saying, any clan can play(as it was the 1st season...).
And again, I'm rather sure things will be sorted out between CB and Rep(and not between rep and yasco, who has absolutely nothign to do with this other than he is part of CC...).
The rest of the rules of jj2wc should all stand, cuz they are ok. A map pool should exist(the one used in season 2 will be from what i've heard twice as big, so no fear, there will be enough levels...)
There should also be a limit, of how many times one team can choose the same level(i vote once...), but heck thats for the other topic. And this whole conversation only started and unneeded uproar.

OHH and a small note. No clan is currently on the list of clans that play in jj2wc season 2, not us, not DM not CC...

[Nimrod]

I would really like that there were at least 3 other supervisors than Rep, so he wouldn't be a dictator-like for jj2wc II as in the first one where SkulL had only a little rights of things he could do in that tournament. Supervisors should be somebody else than Rep's best friends or this mono-control will continue on and on. I'm not against Rep neither, however


Couldnt agree more, specially on the "best friends" comment, of course there gonna back reptile whatever he does, even if it is "power abuse". Get a more diverse team, with perhaps more respected community members who you arent best buddies with, than just your best friends on jj2..

[ChavRashGPW]

Things will never change in this community. IF R3ptile is making an official announcement saying that the clan "CraccoClan" / "CC" cannot participate in the tournament, then I am totally against this decision. However I believe that R3ptile was angry and winded up at the time of this saying, he hasn't said he will exclude CC from the tournament directly, it was just a personal conversation/arguement between him and Yasco.

So at the moment I'm actually against CC for this lame thread; you don't need to post such personal converations, directly flaming someone - If R3ptile would not let you play in this tournament officially then I'm sure most people including myself, would stand against him. But he has NOT made such a decision - he has allowed you to play as far as I'm concerned.

This arguement was started on MSN and should be ended on MSN, not on such forums that have been put online for proper use.

[Grytolle]

Actually, Yasco has to do w/ it. Since he is made war-arranger

[R3ptile]

Couldnt agree more, specially on the "best friends" comment, of course there gonna back reptile whatever he does, even if it is "power abuse". Get a more diverse team, with perhaps more respected community members who you arent best buddies with, than just your best friends on jj2..
Stop banning me from the list servers and then you will have the right to talk about powerabusing.

[Nimrod]

Stop banning me from the list servers and then you will have the right to talk about powerabusing.

You havent been banned...
You have been banned from my JJ2 Game, which is my right to do. But last time I checked, no one was banned, not even ViperMM, from the list servers.

And to furthur back up my cause, the Smoothwall that took care of banning is actually offline, and has been for a while now. Ask any Digiex Admin if you don't believe me.

If you have had some connectivity issue with the list server network, you should ask an admin to help you out, but no one is banned...

So as far as I'm concerned, I have every right possible to talk about you power abusing. Infact, I think its terrible that a cup admins only defence is to make up lies to try and get the topic off himself. I came here to offer support and suggestions, to ensure a smooth running of the cup.

And while everyone is waiting for a direct official comment on whenever your gonna let CC in the cup and the answers to all this, all you can do is come in and (-) at someone else, NICE JOB CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND COVERING YOURSELF EVEN LONGER.... Now, an official response to the actual subject of this thread please.


(And for the record, we will get a IP banning method back up sortly, for users like ViperMM :p )

[Nimrod]

I tried to ask you but you didn't want to help me.

I was leaving for work, and I wasnt gonna to be late just to help you out.

Keep being so jealous, actually, I don't really care...

Theres nothing to be jealous of, sadly. Keep your ego locked up.

[R3ptile]

I removed my previous posts since they don't have anything to do with this topic.

However, CC will be able to participate in JJ2WC if they want to.

[Superjazz]

This thread seems to be quite active...
People are posting approximately 3 replies per hour averagely. Or I'm not sure about it but at least I have seen at least 10 new posts today already.

[R3ptile]

Yeah SJ, I'm just too attractive. :D

I'm going to organize a CTF contest and joining JJ2WC's mappool might be the first award. That would bring us some good levels. :P

[Sasik]

Originally Posted by CraccoBoyCC
Sasik... How many times do I have to tell you that we're not only playing in those levels? The fact that they're our favourite levels doesn't mean we won't play in anything else. Doesn't everyone have their favourite levels?
You said that you won’t play cw ever at for example SBv2 while we were talking about the cw rules. Also you said that you do not have to know each lvl, which has been ever made 8D

Originally Posted by Anakin[CC]
Reptile cant make a biased mappool

Originally Posted by Gry
Why not make a bigger mappool, w/ all commmon lvls? Or why not let each clan pick one lvl each? Out of lvls that most clans know, I mean. Atm, semi seems to be the most frequently played lvl, so why shouldnt it be in JJ2WC?

Originally Posted by CraccoBoyCC
We will participate without any conditions. Taking out the levels that CC likes to play or is best in? If that's really that important to you, be my guest.

As I see, the only one problem which CC has is the mappool. I have some suggestions about that, and I will write it in the right topic ( JJ2WC II Suggestions ) 8D

[Nielsje]

Adding a new level to the mappool sounds good, but it stil has to be picked by the clans.

[Grytolle]

I'm going to organize a CTF contest and joining JJ2WC's mappool might be the first award. That would bring us some good levels. :P
Good idea indeed =D

You said that you won’t play cw ever at for example SBv2 while we were talking about the cw rules. Also you said that you do not have to know each lvl, which has been ever made

Well, we have plenty of time to train new lvls before jj2wc, now havent we?
btw, you know very well that there ARE CC-members who play many maps. *cough* me. I use to train them w/ you =P

Derby: Acronym removal.

[Newspaz]

The Clan leader seems to think otherwise.

I'm sure Shadow will completely understand. Sometimes you just have to say: screw the leader.

[Sasik]

btw, you know very well that there ARE CC-members who play many maps. *cough* me. I use to train them w/ you =P
Only you and Veg ;P

Derby: Previous quotation edit.

[Grytolle]

And Yasco ;D

CB actually play 6 maps now;o

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

This thread is only starting a flame war, if a serious discussion on JJ2WC is to be held please address it in an appropriate manner and do not make wild accusations and post conversations held in a private setting.