Reviewing system of J2Ov2

[Ragnarok!]

The point of this is, that people can now just write tiny reviews and they still get left. I mean, the admins dont care about IPs or bad reviews or ratings so much anymore unless someone reports it. And the only point in reviewing is to get a featured spot. And before, it used to have ranks, like l33t reviewer and all the others. I prefer that to this.. I don't like this new system, there isn't much of a point in reviewing anymore.

Continuing from this, I feel many levels are being overrated/ underrated/ underreviewed. I feel if you put the old system back, you might get more decent reviews and more reviews, or even add the featured spot system to the old one, it might be nice..

I'm not saying you should do this, but maybe its what is wrong, or maybe not, its why I stopped reviewing.

[Violet CLM]

The point of this is, that people can now just write tiny reviews and they still get left.
I removed like four ratings today already. If you think nothing gets edited, you aren't really looking at the downloads section.
I mean, the admins dont care about IPs or bad reviews or ratings so much anymore unless someone reports it.
We are never going to go through and check the IP's of everything, which is why we have minimods to do it. We still will edit and fix anything that we see that is wrong, and I at least spend as much time going through J2O as I did before.
And the only point in reviewing is to get a featured spot. And before, it used to have ranks, like l33t reviewer and all the others. I prefer that to this.. I don't like this new system, there isn't much of a point in reviewing anymore.
There are several reasons to review:
1: If you can write good reviews, people may like you better.
2: Writing a good review makes the author of the level feel happy, so you are rewarding the author for his or her good work.
3: If you write a good review, the author will know what he or she did right, and what he or she did wrong and should avoid next time. This leads to better levels in the future.
4: In your own words, "to get a featured spot". Isn't it awesome to look at your review and see those nice shiny FEATURED letters? It means that you have power. It means that, in this upload, you are a GOD.
5: If you write a review which people find helpful, people are more likely to take you seriously, and you will influence their actions in things like downloading the level.
Continuing from this, I feel many levels are being overrated/ underrated/ underreviewed.
Yes/Maybe/Yes. We really need more reviewers. I promise to myself daily that I will review stuff as soon as I have the time again.
I'm not saying you should do this, but maybe its what is wrong, or maybe not, its why I stopped reviewing.
You stopped reviewing... because instead of being rewarded by how many reviews you write, you get rewarded by how good your reviews are?

[Ragnarok!]

I see, but still, its boring... I don't see the point in reviewing anymore... And when I upload my new levelpack, (NOT SOON) I bet, i will have to bug people to review it.

[Olsen]

I also want the old rank reviewing system

[LittleFreak]

I think the problem is there are too less people reviewing, not the new system. I liked those ranks, but the rest should stay like it is I think. What do you want? Should the admins pay you money for writing reviews? I've just started reviewing a little again, even though I don't exactly know why. I just do it because I can.

A solution might probably be "recruiting" someone who writes good reviews and is fairly active to the "official J2O reviewer" or something. I'm not sure if that would work though, it's just an idea.

[Olsen]

I wasn´t talking anything about money.

[LittleFreak]

I wasn´t talking anything about money.

That wasn't directed to you. :P

[Olsen]

Oh, ok :P

[DarkSonic]

I agree with it about the thing of more reviewers. More reviews is more fun(at least reviews with ratings are)
Look at The Packy Pack (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=3538) and SuperJazz (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=3533) for example. There are 2 reviews on The Packy Pack with rating, and only 1 review for SuperJazz with a rating in it. It's probably because people are lazy - like I am too.

[LittleFreak]

Look at The Packy Pack and SuperJazz for example.

Links?

[Blackraptor]

I dunno, but recently I stopped reviewing altogether (except for one thing recently, but that was a spontaneous and rare inspirational outbreak). And from the lack of reviews, I don't think I'll really upload any more stuff either (at least not any time soon).

[Violet CLM]

Don't worry, people. We're tossing some new ideas around, and soon J2O should be as fun and rewarding as it was back when people were Ultra l33t Reviewers.

[LittleFreak]

I've seen there was some kind of text formating system included. Good work.

I decided to review all single player stuff that comes up from now on, because
1) I like SP
2) SP hardly ever gets a lot of reviews, if any
3) I have too much spare time :P

[cooba]

I've seen there was some kind of text formating system included.It was in since J2Ov2 came out, but oh well, at least there's a more convienient link to it in TIPS =D.

[FQuist]

Yeah, people barely use that system (<A href="http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/node.php?title=Text%20Formatting">about Textile</a>) even though it has some neet features like links and even pictures.

[Nielsje]

I prefer the new reviewing system above the old one. Although I miss the ranks.
Overall:
Quality > Quantity. I mean with this that a few good reviews are better than a ton of crappy reviews.

[DarkSonic]

I agree with you, Chip. The only thing I miss are the ranks, but the featured review option and the helpful ratings are nice options. A combination of those things would be great.

[cooba]

I have been always using Textile on J2O \:D/

...oh, and ranks sucked.

[FQuist]

I prefer neither quality nor quantity. One must find a balance between them. Right now there are downloads which barely get any reviews or don't get reviews at all (<a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/couldUseReview.php">this</a> is just a short list of such downloads) so it would be good to have some more reviews even if that would mean on average a loss in quality.

[DarkSonic]

I saw one of my old levels was in the list. I saw some CTF levels. *reviews 25000 miles above the earth*

[LittleFreak]

I've reviewed one of the files in the review ideas list, even though it's two years old and the author probably does never read it. Who cares.

EDIT:

A question, how many good reviews ("TIS IS KOOL BUTT I GIV TIS A 6,2 bceAUSE TIS COL BTU I WATN GIV TEN BUT I GIV 8!!!11!!1111" or something similiar does not count) does an upload in the review ideas list need to "get out of it"?

[Violet CLM]

That list is not automatic. Admins just randomly come across unreviewed levels and manually add them to the list. I think levels get removed by being reviewed.

[FQuist]

If a download is reviewed with a rating it is removed from the list.

[LittleFreak]

There are lots of downloads with a good review and rating in the list though.

http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=3419

This one for example.

[Violet CLM]

Levels are added to the list if they have insufficient ratings, or if they're just good and we suggest people download them. Two is still not a very high number.

[LittleFreak]

OK. Thanks for the info. :)

I'll try and rate some of the stuff in there, like I did yesterday.

[FQuist]

That's great, LittleFreak. Little people use that page and it's great when it's being used since the downloads listed there really need reviews most of the time.

To clarify Violet's statement, we generally add downloads there with a lack of (average/good) reviews (including if there's just one average/good review). Good downloads with little reviews we could add some of the time, but of course we won't use the page as a sort of "download this!" page. Good downloads with many reviews wouldn't be added.

[DarkSonic]

Imo, Apocalyptic Afterworld has 2 good reviews, including one of me.

[White Rabbit]

The current reviewing system is ok, but I'd still like the reviewer rankings.. I never got above "I might as well work here" while others are on Ultra-l33t reveiwer. Getting a featured review once or twice is not as good as being able to show off your ranking on every review.

[Sacrush]

Ok from now on I will review at least 1 upload a week. hopefully more then that.

[Blackraptor]

Ok from now on I will review at least 1 upload a week. hopefully more then that.

http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=3620
=(.

[Ragnarok!]

Its so annoying that you barely get reviews. ;(

[Sacrush]

Ok before thursday I will review Team fortress and Ragnaroks fortress. :D

[DarkSonic]

Ok before thursday I will review Team fortress and Ragnaroks fortress. :D
Ragnarok already got one good review for his level =P
But BR really needs a review for his level... I don't know how to review a level with that type.

[LittleFreak]

Ragnarok already got one good review for his level =P
But BR really needs a review for his level... I don't know how to review a level with that type.

Shouldn't be too difficult.

Rate on how much you enjoyed playing (first host and play of course), how creative it is, how well the eyecandy is and anything else that comes to your mind. :P

[Violet CLM]

The current reviewing system is ok, but I'd still like the reviewer rankings..
It's in the works, but it's not high priority.

[LittleFreak]

Yeah, good thing. ;D

I always wanted the ranks back. :P

[CrashMash]

I also want the old rank reviewing system

me too

[Blackraptor]

It does get annoying that I always have to bug people to review my stuff now too. Before (2002 - 2003) I would just upload something and the next morning I would wake up and find I already have a review or two.

[LittleFreak]

Yeah.

The problem is, what could we do to get more people to review? After all they're not slaves, and can decide if they want to review something or not.

I'd do more, but I can only really play SP stuff, sux internet. >.<

[cooba]

I'd do more, but I can only really play SP stuff, sux internet. >.<What about HOSTING MP LEVELS and paying no attention that your server doesn't show up?

Pageclaim.

[the WINNER]

Back On Topic about the reviewing system:

I think that if the review is N/A, the helpful ratings should be disabled for it. People shouldn't be punished for having no helpful stuff in an N/A review. It doesn't affect the rating at all anyway!

[LittleFreak]

What about HOSTING MP LEVELS and paying no attention that your server doesn't show up?

Pageclaim.

Nobody could enter the server anyway. I'm too lazy to exactly explain the problem, but the fact is that I can NOT play online. So why should I host MP levels? I have hardly any online playing experience, and therefore MP level reviews would be kind of unfair. I don't want that to happen.

More on topic:

I guess most people need some kind of "prize" to review something. Helpful ratings are cool, but still most people are too lazy to write a good review for them. So the question is, what could we offer them? We can't give them money or something, that'd be kind of dumb.

[the WINNER]

LittleFreak probably didn't read half of my post. I meant all the N/A reviews. "Review Helpfulness" should be disabled for all N/A ratings. Any N/A review doesn't need to be good, because it doesn't affect the rating in any way.

[White Rabbit]

However, the helpful rating system explicitly states that you should rate reviews based on their quality and not their rating. So, technically, rating N/A reviews is completely legitimate.

[LittleFreak]

LittleFreak probably didn't read half of my post. I meant all the N/A reviews. "Review Helpfulness" should be disabled for all N/A ratings. Any N/A review doesn't need to be good, because it doesn't affect the rating in any way.

Huh?

I was talking to Cooba actually.

Anyways, it's annoying when reviews meant as comments get rated, so I agree with you.

[the WINNER]

However, the helpful rating system explicitly states that you should rate reviews based on their quality and not their rating. So, technically, rating N/A reviews is completely legitimate.

N/A reviews don't NEED to have quality, because they don't affect the rating. So if someone goes rate "Not helpful" to a N/A review, it's pretty annoying. Especially if it's not a review, but a comment.

[Nielsje]

I agree with the WINNER on this one.

[Violet CLM]

http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/news/comments.php?newsID=19

[cooba]

But people have chosen to ignore Trafton, as usual.

[LittleFreak]

But people have chosen to ignore Trafton, as usual.

Yeah. How sad. :(

[LittleFreak]

One thing I don't like aswell is that bad reviews are still over unrated ones. :(

[White Rabbit]

So, according to Trafton, rating N/A reviews is perfectly fine. ;p Whether you see the review as a comment and not a real review is a different matter. If, however, someones writes a review tha doesn't fit into J2o's rules and gets edited to N/A, then you should still be able to rate it. IMO the rating is for the author of the review, telling him how good he has done and not for the author of the upload, telling him how good the reviews of his upload is. The review rating system is supposedly supposed to discourage bad reviewers, or at least encourage them to put in more effort.

EDIT: Don't forget that some ppl may rate a review with a rating only to find that the admins have taken the rating away and set it to N/A. Now, if you follow the winner, what are you going to do? There's no way to take away the helpful/unhelpful rating you gave and you have also, all of a sudden, begun to annoy ppl because they think you have rated an N/A review. :p

[LittleFreak]

Solution: Make N\A (edited reviews or ones without rating) and comments different.

So people can rate N\A reviews and can't rate comments. :P

The real reason I am reviving this topic is though, that I wanted to ask something about the currently-in-work reviewing ranks (as far as I heard they are in the works, correct me if I'm wrong).

If one has already done lots of reviews before the reviewing ranks are back, do those old reviews count on his rank or do you have to start as "New Reviewer" even if you reviewed lots of stuff in the past?

[cooba]

I say we begin from scratch. With new ranks.

[LittleFreak]

Me aswell.

[Tubz]

The reviewing system is working well for me, I think people go to harsh on people. That's why my reviewing style is very different from everyone else.

[LittleFreak]

The problem is that most people do not bother to review anything, which should be changed. ;)

[Tubz]

I think I don't understand why people post these really long reviews. Personally, I find that pointless even though It's informative. But the fact of the matter is, I don't care about reviews usually unless It's a movie or product review. This is because I download the thing anyway. And anyway, I can get my point across in 5 sentences instead of a 2 page report.

[Blackraptor]

I think I don't understand why people post these really long reviews. Personally, I find that pointless even though It's informative. But the fact of the matter is, I don't care about reviews usually unless It's a movie or product review. This is because I download the thing anyway. And anyway, I can get my point across in 5 sentences instead of a 2 page report.

Because if you were the author of the level, you would want not only feedback and criticism about how the level faired in the categories (eyecandy, gameplay, etc) but also suggestions about what to do and how to improve it so it can be better/so the author of the level would know what to avoid doing in the future, and that takes more than 5 sentences..

[LittleFreak]

I disagree with that.

I find 5 sentences a bit too short.

I don't know why I'm doing it, but I'm doing it for the sake of doing it and because I can.

[Tubz]

Because if you were the author of the level, you would want not only feedback and criticism about how the level faired in the categories (eyecandy, gameplay, etc) but also suggestions about what to do and how to improve it so it can be better/so the author of the level would know what to avoid doing in the future, and that takes more than 5 sentences..

Oh yes, I'm just good at getting my point across in a few sentences. Perhaps I was exaggerating but my reviews are very short, concise, and to the poitn and everyone knows that. I point out flaws and pros about the downloadable and tell the creator how to improve. My style of reviewing has never changed, even on my old account.

[LittleFreak]

Nothing wrong with being different though. ;)

I did not want to force you to write longer reviews or something. ;D (even mine are pretty short sometimes)

[White Rabbit]

I also think ppl are too harsh on other ppl when reviewing. BR was not happy with my review and we talked about it for ages, eventually, after a few nuclear missile volleys exchanged, we agreed to each others demands. He edited his lvl and I pushed the rating up. ;P

I also write reviews for my sake, and for my reader's sake, which means that I'm writing for EVERYONE. For the author, so he knows what I think, for ppl who haven't DLed the lvl and for the review raters, those that give us all very nice Featured review. ;P Basically, I don't believe in too short reviews because that would make everyone except the author get bored. My strive for length and quality has more often than not ended in total, utter failure. This shows just how tough reviewing can be, at least for me. Er..what's my point, you ask? Well, #jj2 got boring, so I typed a bit here. There. Happy? *eats*

[Ragnarok!]

Hmm, I'm surprised ppl even cared about this thread ;D .