Regarding Jazz Jackrabbit 3

[DoomFrost]

I've searced and read the info about JJ3 and its unfortunate demise. My question is was there ever an initial beta release of the particular game?

[Violet CLM]

Yes. An early test demo was released to a few people, one or more of whom <shadow> could obviously not be trusted and leaked it onto a few other people, who then leaked it onto a few more... the point is, it's illegal to distribute.

[DoomFrost]

Okay thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if there was a beta release or not. Guess curiosity got the best of me... again. :p

[Doubble Dutch]

So people are still ilegally distributing it?

I must aquire a copy!

I mean, er, terrible, terrible behaviour.

[Nimrod]

The beta was leaked, and improved on by people.

You could try looking on Google for the work.

[Ðx]

i did't do it! * points to Nimpie :D *

[Xobim]

Another conspiracy! :D *get wacked*

[Monolith]

There was never a public release. The beta release that people talk about was used as a demonstration for World Tree Games to present the game to publishers. Also, as far as I understand, the game had not reached beta stage yet. I'm guessing this release was somewhere around pre-alpha.

[Crono5]

Yeah, there's not much to the game and what is is really buggy and/or incomplete.

[Doubble Dutch]

The screenshots look good enough.

[NinJazz]

I have never had Jazz3Demo ;O

[Ðx]

be happy with that NinJazz

[Chiyu]

Yes, there is a demo. :P

(warez)

[Warez edit. You know this is disallowed. You get a subwarning. - FQuist]

[Slaz]

I downloaded and tried Nimrods JJ3 online beta work and it looks great from what's ready. Sad that the whole project is death now, as the Jazz community needs something new to get more visitors and members..

[Nimrod]

I downloaded and tried Nimrods JJ3 online beta work and it looks great from what's ready. Sad that the whole project is death now, as the Jazz community needs something new to get more visitors and members..

The project could be saved if the main site (and resource centre) for Jazz Jackrabbit didnt have a ban policy on a potentially legal game. You provide one link to it and boom its removed. (Yes, Im talking about J2o/JCF)

The only illegal part of it is the engine, but it can be changed with a few edits to make it a "Mod" for Unreal or Unreal Tournament. This way, it would be legal.

The only other things I can think of is maybe the names and charactors are copyrighted, but I hardly think Epic would care if you used them on a freely available mod for there own game (Unreal).

Its not like you see Rare sue people over Perfect Dark mods for UT, or the owners of the James Bond copyright for many James Bond mods for Unreal.

Either way, if you wanted to continue it, you will need some good coders, and a lot of community support.

[Stijn]

But currently it is not a mod for UT, so it's still illegal.

By the way, Mark Rein stated that he would have "no problems" with a JJ UT mod.

[Nimrod]

But currently it is not a mod for UT, so it's still illegal.

I've got it running as a Mod for Unreal Gold :) Although I need to work on the GUI, right now I'm using command line.

By the way, Mark Rein stated that he would have "no problems" with a JJ UT mod.

Perfect.

[n00b]

be happy with that NinJazz
That is, if you enjoy multiplayer. The JJ3 MP experience at current state is highly under whelming.
Single Player, however, is excellent

[Slaz]

@Nimrod: I am not a good programmer, so I can't help with this project. But do you think that you will ever manage to get this project in good state again with your team? That's the general thing I wanted to ask..

[Violet CLM]

By the way, Mark Rein stated that he would have "no problems" with a JJ UT mod.
He said UT2004, specifically.

[FQuist]

It's not "potentially legal". Maybe in some dream world with pink fluffy clouds and jackrabbits happily hopping about there, but not in this real world.

It's really, really, quite simple, if you care to look at the law even for the tiniest bit. If the creators of JJ3 do not wish it to be distributed, <b>which they have stated they DO NOT</b>, it cannot be distributed legally. Leaked unfinished things do not become 'legal' to distribute because they were leaked before they were published and copyright was requested (if someone leaks Madonna's newest album a month before it was released, does it become legal to share her album with all your friends since it wasn't published yet?), they stay illegal since any work is automatically copyrighted by US law.

<blockquote>The wording of section 102 is significant mainly because it effectuated a major change in the mode of United States copyright protection. Under the last major statutory revision to U.S. copyright law, the Copyright Act of 1909, federal statutory copyright protection attached to orginal works only when those works were 1) published and 2) had a notice of copyright affixed. State copyright law goverened protection for unpublished works before the adoption of the 1976 Act, but published works, whether containing a notice of copyright or not, were goverened exclusively by federal law. If no notice of copyright was affixed to a work and and the work was, in fact, "published" in a legal sense, the 1909 Act provided no copyright protection and the work became part of the public domain. Under the 1976 Act, however, section 102 says that copyright protection extends to original works that are fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Thus, the 1976 Act broadended the scope of federal statutory copyright protection from "published" works to works that are "fixed."</blockquote>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Act_of_1976">United States Copyright Act of 1976</a>

This took me five minutes of research. Please do inform yourself before making odd claims and acting on them and heaving rhetorical slurs at this site's administration.

If you want to spread your JJ3 mod, here's how to go about it:

1. E-mail its creators or a contact person of them (Dodrill?) that you've made a mod that does include the engine, and is thus not illegal to spread even with its creators' consent.
2. Ask them if they still do not wish it to be spread.
3. Rejoice, or give up.

Why do I say this? Because they have stated they do NOT wish it to be distributed, and they have actively opted to not allow it. But perhaps they can be convinced with this new situation. You need to actually try, however.

[Newspaz]

*Stands up and applauds FQuist*

[Link]

I spoke to Nimrod about this, and it seems his idea is for an UT mod based on JJ3 but using completely original content. This would not be illegal or a breach of copyright. It would be illegal to include data from the JJ3 demo in the mod, but if all artwork, characters, levels, and sounds are original work, it would be fine.

Edit: To clarify, the content in the link that Nimrod posted is still illegal and warranted FQuist's edit. The eventual goal would be to create a version that includes no content from the JJ3 demo. As of now, though, this does not exist, and the current version (using the Unreal engine and JJ3 skins/artwork) is still illegal to download or possess.

[Monolith]

So Nimrod's idea of a UT mod wouldn't actually have anything to do with this JJ3 demo. It'd be along the same lines as Piet's Razz Arena or Bagger's Jazz3D fangame.

[Nimrod]

So Nimrod's idea of a UT mod wouldn't actually have anything to do with this JJ3 demo. It'd be along the same lines as Piet's Razz Arena or Bagger's Jazz3D fangame.

I guess so, but the ideas would all be coming from the JJ3 Demo which is not "legal" to pass on, it gave a good idea of how JJ3 should be, and can be easily reproduced on any version of the Unreal Engine.

Lark and Overlord both made good maps for the Unreal Engine that can be used in JJ3, theres also 2 good Multiplayer maps in the JJ3 Demo, and if we could get permission from whoever made them to include them in our own JJ3 Mod it would be good.

Also, does US Copyright law apply to people not from the US? (Or would the local version come into force?)

[Monolith]

Also, does US Copyright law apply to people not from the US? (Or would the local version come into force?)
I believe either works are protected under the copyright of their country of origin, or there is a similar international copyright law.

[FQuist]

There is a similar international copyright law, and I take usually the extra rules of the country of origin are respected to some extends, too, although I need to research that (it's a rather complex mechanism)

International copyright law:

<blockquote>Copyright must be granted automatically, and not based upon any "formality", such as registrations or systems of renewal.</blockquote>

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPs">Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights</a>

[Slaz]

It would be much harder to make a patch liked program that will work like a mod for JJ3, but it's not impossible for sure. I still can't see why Epic don't distributes the JJ3 demo to the public, same for the JJ2 source code..

[LittleFreak]

I believe the problem with JJ3 has to do with copyrights. They needed a yes from all owners of JJ rights to distribute it freely, which they don't have. That's how I understood it.

And I'm happy they don't give out the source code for JJ2, for a reason I stated a thousand times already.

[Slaz]

The discussion about the JJ2 source code grew big last time. I still think that it's a big improvement for the community if we where able to make a 1.25 though.

[LittleFreak]

The question is IF it is an improvement or if it screws up JJ2. I'm for a script language instead.

[Slaz]

If we have or haven't got the source code. Hackers can always make cheat programs to mess up JJ2. Not that it's important to have the source, but it will make a lot of fun for programmers that can fix the many glitches that are still into 1.23..

[LittleFreak]

...and ruin any old custom levels that make use of these glitches.

[cooba]

...and ruin any old custom levels that make use of these glitches.If there were more such levels than Team Battle v2 and Assassination.

[Slaz]

Those game types are not very important and you can still use them into TSF if there ever will be an 1.25..

[Nitro]

Or make an actualy game mode like Team battle...

[Slaz]

That's another good solution. But in my time on JJ2 I only saw 2 servers playing this game type..

[!Tman!]

JJ3 demo compared with todays graphics sucks to bad they couldnt redo it. Now it looks really old sorta like doom 1 almost just more angles lol...

[Doubble Dutch]

Eh?

So you have [ilegal] acess to the demo?

Quite frankly I think its good enough to sell to todays auidience, the graphics may not be so spiffy, but the gameplay would shine through.

[n00b]

JJ3 demo compared with todays graphics sucks to bad they couldnt redo it. Now it looks really old sorta like doom 1 almost just more angles lol...
And leik jj2 looks leik teh space invaders only liek wit mor colurs leik lol
With today's graphics it'd be a really good looking DS game.
JJ3 had graphics better than most N64 games.

[!Tman!]

Apparently you haven't played any new consoles. I know games like Zelda on N64 are good but come on there is a time to move on. As for JJ3 MOVE ON Epic wouldnt make hardly a dime inless they made a new story mode with higher quality graphics.

[whitelder]

I have JJ3D, yes its the alpha demo, yes its buggy but its a really good game. Easy to understand and something like Razz Arena which I have just dloaded and played.
Stuck in a place though cause I cant get past the laser beam shooting at me, no god cheat as yet :P when this new company rebuilds JJ3D they had better put cheat codes in :S

[LordOmega]

I've screached on google and I know this project was straned few years ago
I just want an anser:
-can I found this demo on the web
-can i found it free

[Stijn]

The answer to both questions is yes, but it is not legal to distribute or use the demo.

[cooba]

-can I found this demo on the webYes but it's illegal.
-can i found it freeA beta demo for free? I guess.

stijn rocketfingars..

[LordOmega]

I got it!!! I'll install this week end . thanks a lot for your anwsers who gave me the courage to search and search again.

EDIT: well... I can't standby and I'v tryed it . this game is verry cool!!!

[n00b]

Have fun with it, its seriously extremely fun (and long) for an in progress demo.

[Cpp]

Hf.
We once got the multiplayer to work ;)

[Dermo]

The copy is floating out their on the net. However, it is on a hidden page.

[whitelder]

i torrented it :D

[NovaStar]

well youre a sneaky theif

[whitelder]

ah well, at leaste I have the game, wish their where cheats for it, i keep dying :S

[n00b]

IIRC all of Unreal's tilde-menu thingy commands works in JJ3d

[Dermo]

That would be because it runs on the same engine, smart guy.

[n00b]

In what is supposed to be a sarcastic response to me you are in turn insulting the intelligence of whitelder. Good show.

[whitelder]

IIRC all of Unreal's tilde-menu thingy commands works in JJ3d

Sorry n00b im not to familar (sp) with Unreal Tornament (that is what you meant rite?) I knwo JJ3 runs on that engine btw Dermo

[Cpp]

i torrented it :D
This thing is getting really popular these days. Seems like the demo is already available on many torrent trackers. I recall some years ago when the only way to obtain the demo was to ask a friend for it, but today you can find it just about anywhere. Heck, I even found it with a bit of googling.

[whitelder]

This thing is getting really popular these days. Seems like the demo is already available on many torrent trackers. I recall some years ago when the only way to obtain the demo was to ask a friend for it, but today you can find it just about anywhere. Heck, I even found it with a bit of googling.

Did you get the Alpha version or the beta version? the alpha version start up screen says not for redistribution

[n00b]

Sorry n00b im not to familar (sp) with Unreal Tornament (that is what you meant rite?) I knwo JJ3 runs on that engine btw Dermo

This website should contain all you need (http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Console_Commands/Cheat_Console_Commands)

[PhAyzoN]

Did you get the Alpha version or the beta version? the alpha version start up screen says not for redistribution

Im not entirely sure what youre refering to, but Im pretty sure there are actually 2 versions floating around.

One of them starts off right in the first area (the town), has a higher-res hud, and a glitchy dungeon-basement-flooded area-thing. EXE file is Jazz3.exe with the Unreal Icon dated 11/16/1999. Also worthy of note there was a Documentation folder containing progress notes (which so happen to state the glitchyness of the dungeon). I suppose this document would be legal to distribute if anyone cares to see? This version has more files in the Textures folder.

The other starts off with Jazz on treadmill like object, a "Welcome to Jazz Jackrabbit 3D" voice and menu music, a more pixilated HUD, and nicely done dungeon-basement area. EXE file is Jazz3d.exe with a JJ3 icon and dated 10/6/2000. It seems this version has all superiority aside the lower-res HUD (which I dont know where it is stored to be able to replace it with the high-res one). This version also has more files in the Maps folder.
EDIT: Oh yes, and the crosshair doesnt seem to change in this one

I also vaguely remember (Ill have to check) the 2 versions have different firing rates of the blaster
EDIT2: Just checked, the version mentioned first has a faster blaster

[whitelder]

This website should contain all you need (http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Console_Commands/Cheat_Console_Commands)

Thanxs, n00b, i dont know whether these will work in jj3? have you tested any of them?

[Bboy Type7]

I saw the game on youtube. It looks fun. Is that game out yet?

[n00b]

Is that game out yet?

Head, meet keyboard.

[Bboy Type7]

Ack sorry I'm new to this board. I heard on youtube the real game is gonna be out.

[whitelder]

Ack sorry I'm new to this board. I heard on youtube the real game is gonna be out.


The real game will never be out, whats out is the alpha and beta versions of the UNFINISHED game, it will never be finished, the game is dead in this version anyway

[PhAyzoN]

whitelder, which do you call Alpha and which Beta? See my post above about my experience with the 2 versions. which is which?

[n00b]

This version has more files in the Textures folder.

Mind uploading those? I'd like to see them.

[whitelder]

BETA (I think) One of them starts off right in the first area (the town), has a higher-res hud, and a glitchy dungeon-basement-flooded area-thing. EXE file is Jazz3.exe with the Unreal Icon dated 11/16/1999. Also worthy of note there was a Documentation folder containing progress notes (which so happen to state the glitchyness of the dungeon). I suppose this document would be legal to distribute if anyone cares to see? This version has more files in the Textures folder.

ALPHA (this is the one I have and it says alpha on the start up screen)The other starts off with Jazz on treadmill like object, a "Welcome to Jazz Jackrabbit 3D" voice and menu music, a more pixilated HUD, and nicely done dungeon-basement area. EXE file is Jazz3d.exe with a JJ3 icon and dated 10/6/2000. It seems this version has all superiority aside the lower-res HUD (which I dont know where it is stored to be able to replace it with the high-res one). This version also has more files in the Maps folder.
EDIT: Oh yes, and the crosshair doesnt seem to change in this one

[Torkell]

Wouldn't that make the earlier one pre-alpha?

(software development: alpha -> beta -> release candidate -> release)

[Puffie40]

There are some videos of the gameplay on Youtube (Too lazy to look it up right now :p just search for Jazz Jackrabbit 3) It satisfied my curiosity for it. I am not interested in buggy third person shooters.

[whitelder]

This website should contain all you need (http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Console_Commands/Cheat_Console_Commands)

I got that n00b, tried the codes in JJ3D and they didnt work... still dying but now im playing the Razz's rocket levela dn cant get past those spinning circles that kill you on touch...

[ShadowGPW]

as since everyone is speculating:

To keep it short; i've asked around if we could develop Jj3 a little more for a non-commercial use. Especially since it would nice as a suprise during the 10th anniversary bash.

Here is the reply:

RE: Jazz Jackrabbit 3D Jay Wilbur
U hebt geantwoord op 10-1-2008 18:37.

Aan: ClanBase-Ins0mnia
CC: Mark Rein; Cliff Bleszinski

Hi John,

Thank you for your interest in our Jazz Jackrabbit IP. We are truly grateful for fans like you. As much as I would love to say yes and allow you to move forward I’m afraid I cannot. There are several legal issues at play that have potential to cause harm to Epic if we allowed you to move forward. The biggest of which being the loss of control and dilution of a valuable Epic IP.

I know that’s not the answer you were looking for. Sorry.

----
Regards,
Jay Wilbur
Epic Games

However, the conversation isn't ending there. Working on something else with Epic. Ill keep you updated.

[Stijn]

well well

[FireSworD]

That's awesome. I can't wait to see more. :)

[n00b]

Always liked Jay Wilbur, glad to hear this is going somewhere.

[Aunty Rarnee]

sorry to awake an old thread - but i created an account here to make a new thread, but 4 some reason it wont let me create one (even though I did activate my account first and post on a previous thread first.)

I have read a heap about JJ3D, i know about it and I know its illegal to distribute, umm however..... I ahh *heard about this guy* who was trying to download it and he spent all day and he downloaded many different versions, exe's, rar's and torrents, all which didnt work for some reason or another, and hypothetically speaking, where is there a trusted source for him to download it free, without signing up or registration. If theres one that isn't a torrent that would be beat for him too, but he doesn't care, as long as he's pointed in the right direction that would be great, so if any of you have it on your computers, or *know someone else that has it on their computer* if you could share the download source that would be great.
But if it is a torrent, can someone include the best torrent client to download it with?

Thanks, and please also don't just say 'google it' or 'search these forums' because...*he* has. :-)

[Troglobite]

I don't believe anyone is allowed to post links to illegal content on this thread, even if they happened to know where it was. So he's out of luck, sorry.

[ShadowGPW]

Indeed.. don't!

[whitelder]

I have it, had it for years, cant remember where I got it from though, it was doing the rounds for a while on all the sites you mentioned, maybe it has fallen by the wayside, no one is interested anymore...

[Joizy]

It's a really long time ago when I heard they were busy with Jj3D. I once had some guy on msn who gave me a soundtrack of Jj3D and I was totally impressed. It's a shame that he didn't say much tho, because I asked him almost once in a week if he made any progress on Jj3D.

Anyway, I agree that it's a shame that the game is never finished, but maybe it's something for the future. Maybe YOU turn out to be a Game maker in the future and MAYBE YOU shall make a Jj3D. You never know.

[ShadowGPW]

It's a really long time ago when I heard they were busy with Jj3D. I once had some guy on msn who gave me a soundtrack of Jj3D and I was totally impressed. It's a shame that he didn't say much tho, because I asked him almost once in a week if he made any progress on Jj3D.

Anyway, I agree that it's a shame that the game is never finished, but maybe it's something for the future. Maybe YOU turn out to be a Game maker in the future and MAYBE YOU shall make a Jj3D. You never know.

Doubtfully that it was a guy from the JJ team. Especially since you can download the complete soundtrack for free on J2o ( http://www.jazz2online.com/j3f/ ) with premission of Alexander Brandon. The dude behind the music of JJ2/3D and unreal series.

Give it a look! It might still awnser some questions, even tho a few are very outdated.

[Joizy]

Ow well, I dunno. His name was Alex xD. But he was Dutch, so no, I also don't think so ;).