Should Jazz Jackrabbit 3 be 3D or 2D?

[DFX]

What do y'll think?



2d - 51%

3d - 49%



It'll be fair for people who don't have a 3d Card and a Jazz Harcore gamers. But really 3d sometimes gets out of hand and I can't figure out where i'm going. I sorta don't like 3d games. I only have like 4 or 5 3d Games on my computer. The only system that has 3d games anyway.

[Violet CLM]

2D but the tilesets should LOOK 3D.

[Me]

2D but the tilesets should LOOK 3D

[Me]

2D but the tilesets should LOOK 3D

[FireClaw]

3D. Also, you don't really need a 3D Accelorater to run it, trust me. That is, if using the Unreal engine. Having a 3D Accelorater will probably, A. Give you a better frame rate, B. Create better looking graphics, and have the ability to see more graphical effects.

[Cpp]

Uh! 3D!!! I'm sick of 2d.

[Emerald Dragon]

Okay, guys, listen up...

You all want 3 Demension.



Imagine, how will you build levels? How will internet play be possible??!!

Tell me that! I personally want two demension. Three demension is not ment to be for JJ3.

[Kaz]

Emerald, may I add that internet play will be easier... first of all, jj2 sends position larger than it really needs to be!

It can be improved by 65535 times, I'm sure we can fit another depth in there. Same with weapons, and Rayman 2 ran well on my computer, even though it took up about 75 mb.





3D, we need it to sell, and it looks awesome in 3d =D.

[FireClaw]

First of all, you will be able to still be able to build levels with 3D games (But it may not be the easiest job in the world). Also, with most 3D Shooters on the market, about 10% or 20% DON'T have net play.



_________________

This post was posted by the one, the only, FireClaw.

[Emerald Dragon]

Well, I don't exactly like 3D games, personally. And I dun want to play a 3D game that you can't build levels with...

[Derby]

Just who is "you"?



3-D level building is easy with any level builder. How do you think the originals created 3-D levels? They, too, wielded them. Do you know how 3-D level builders even look like? They usually look exactly like an editor using 3/4ths overhead view, no doubt. There are several layers you use to build them, as well. That kills your level building dilemma.



Netplay in 3-D, however, would require three controls. Actions, directions, and camera angles. To each dimension a control; Where JJ2 would only require actions and directions to tend, JJ3 would require the extra tending of camera angles. This would be eliminated by a game simply in a 3/4ths overhead view, but then the game wouldn't look nearly as attractive.



It's safe to say that you can always retreat to the use of a gamepad. The Gravis Xterminator is really handy for 3-D games. The Gravis Gamepad Pro isn't bad, either. (To those of you who don't know, Gravis promoted Epic's game known as "Jazz Jackrabbit" with the original Gravis Gamepad.) I don't think using a keyboard would be that bad, either.



Hands down, another two dimensional sequel is out of the question, so forget about it. It's time to move ahead. If you like 2-D, then continue playing this game, as the rest of us will move ahead without you.



Staying away from the harsh side, it's not safe to say that Project 3 will even make a sequel. Don't be pessimistic, but also don't get your hopes up. ;-P

[Derby]

Amazing. I posted at exactly 12:00 AM.



Let's not get off-topic, though. If we were to make an off-topic forum, the whole board would be in it. ;-P

[Coppertop]

2d. Easier to build, easier to play.

[Tanpopo Kiku]

3-D. There's nothing else you can do in 2-D really.

[FireClaw]

Hey Derby, I woud like to see you still say that after you taken a look at the Unreal Tournament level editor. :-P

[Derby]

FC, I was afraid you'd bring up the UT Level editor. ;-P



That's besides the point. How many 3-D level editors do you see out there, anyway? 200? 300? (These guesses aren't that close or conservative.)



If it wasn't in a 3/4ths view, it's probably not as easy, then. Of course, they would become surfaced area in that case. ;-P

[Kaz]

I think 3d level making would be far too easy! I mean, set up a floor, make a few walls, heck, it's like building a house!

[FireClaw]

It would be fun to see Hotel levels in 3D. But, they would be just as bad, if not worse.

[Jersey Devil]

Ever play Klonoa - Door To Phantomile on PSX? 2.5D that was (2D sprites, 3D bg's). Could easily be done without a 3D card, don't you agree? It'd certainly look unique, that's for sure.

[Coppertop]

True. I've got a question though: Would it be like Unreal? I mean, like directing Jazz and all. Would you just see this gun bobbing in front of you and occasionally an ear or something? http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif Actually, that's a pretty funny thought. . .



And what if you die? Would that be 3D too? Would you get extra lives, that sort of thing?



Lotsa questions I know, but I think they make sense. . .

[Coppertop]

The day what?



well, would it?

[Tanpopo Kiku]

2-D is too easy for me, just to let you know. That's why I spend almost all of my time playing DEscent 3.



And 3d level making isn't that easy, Kaz. I'd like to see you try...http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif



And another thing that I heard Melissa saying was that she'd like to see Jazz, Spaz, Eva, and Lori climb up walls. (like her. in 3-D people can climb walls it's more real.)



I'd hope that JJ3 would be sorta like a third person thing. That way we could see more.

[Tanpopo Kiku]

Of course. It would look kinda strange.

[Michael]

I have a good 3D graphics card so of course I'll pick 3D, but what about others? Your pro'lly thinking 'Their problem, they need a new computer or card' well that's what i think too http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

-Nit

[Jazzy]

It should be 3D, like Mario64!! ;p

[Derby]

All that, except Jazz shouldn't be yelling out "Let's a go!" or be dreaming of ravioli when he's idle. ;-P



Maybe something similar would do it, though. They should have a nice variety of idle remarks.

[Grath AR]

2D! Look what if the ppl who dont have a 3d card cant afford either a new computer or a card?

[~SPLASH~]

those ppl have to play it on low detail



MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

3d!

[ShadowGPW]

2D Age is almost gone and almost every AGP Videocart are now Direct 3D or OPenGL compatable.



There is no reason to have something with out these cool things. Also the sys req-ments are now (of new games) 400mhz as a minimum and mostly these machines have a nice TNT or what ever cart.. =)

[Tanpopo Kiku]

It's not my problem if people do not have a 3d graphics card. Almost everyone should. Because no one plays only Jazz on their computers. They must have, and play, some other 3d game.

[Ice M A N]

3D definately. I don't even have a 3D card but it's definately what's best for the game and company..



(But I'll probably have one in 1,000,000 years when the game comes out http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif)

[jediscum]

2D Jazz wouldn't be the same in 3D



Do what they are doing for possum, making 2D and 3D.

[Timothy Hyperion Purr]

3-D. I'd prefer to see Jazz, Eva, Spaz, and Lori in their 3d forms. That would be interesting.

[Jersey Devil]

I agree that 3D is the logical step for the Jazz series to take. As far as 3D cards & suchlike are concerned, nearly every PC game in 3D these days has a software mode anyhow.



BTW, welcome to the Jazz Community T. H. Purr http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Nice to see another Jazzer aboard.



J.D..

[SteelTalon]

This has been debated before. 3D is the only way Jazz can advance. And, BTW, I think you should also take a look at D3Edit, Derby (it's not every day that an editor takes me several hours just to make a room). ;P

[PinkDaizy]

I like 2D, but 3D would make JJ3 more interesting. I think Jazz being 2D but the tileset being 3D would look cool.

[Wild Angel]

*agrees with Daizy fully

[Jersey Devil]

Just like Klonoa http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif



J.D..

[Derby]

3D in a 2D world isn't very exciting all. What's the difference in gameplay? Absolutely nothing. Just what would be new in the game aside from a new selection of players, levels, storylines, and objects? We're trying to keep Jazz alive, and not kill it because the company made little or no profit off of the game (in fact, the only people who they're going to make a profit off of are those of you who are still stuck in two-dimensional gameplay). I'm not saying Jazz Jackrabbit 2 is bad, or a thing of the past. I'm saying it WILL be something of the past when and if there is a sequel. JJ3 might not stop you from playing JJ2 (if it ever came out), but we're NOT going to have another 2-D sequel. I'm not even sure why I'm actually rambling on about this, as any sequel to this game will not have 2-D considered at all.



ST: Well, D3 might just be a game revolving around flight, where there just isn't much you can do about. ;-P



~ Derby

[SteelTalon]

I also agree with the hat, but you are missing the point, Derby. If you had "2 1/2D", then you could have multiple "sprite layers". Also, the graphics would obviously be better.



And I didn't really get your comment on D3, Derby. =P

[Derby]

I'm not sure how much fun you could have with multiple sprite layers. I think I'd have more fun playing in a 3D world. ;-P



I don't get the comment before that, ST. I just have the feeling that my comment makes more sense. ;-P

[Wild Angel]

I agree with uh, Steel.

[Ducky]

I'm like, really lost...I shouldn't post here, sorry.

Someone swat me.

`Ducky

[Electric Ir]

Back to the topic: IT IS 3D Allready!

[Tanpopo Kiku]

It should be 3D. Or else I will not buy it.

[CannibalBob]

Jazz 3 should obviously be 3D, because they already ran the 2D environment dry. Sure, they could add more things (like the additional sprite layers or whatever) but obviously 3D would sell better, and there's plenty more stuff to do in a 3D environment. Plus, it'd look cooler!

[Kaz]

Next Question:

256 Colours or 16-bit? =D

[PinkDaizy]

The more colors, the better.

[Derby]

How many of us think a possible sequel should use monochrome? *All hands go up*



Then monochrome it should be. ;-P

[Timothy Hyperion Purr]

24-bit. That is true color.



Lifelike sound, lifelike visual effects, now all we have to do is get a life. http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[SteelTalon]

Bah, 32 bit color. =P



And I'm for 3-D, if you all haven't noticed already. =P

[Derby]

32-bit colors take up a load of memory, and aren't much different from 16-bit colors. However, the current generation of games is in a current era of 16-bit colored games, with a few higher, here and there. Whatever the case, there should be an option for changing between these things. As far as I know, the jump from 256 colors and 8 bit (65,536 colors) is the largest. 16-bit (16,777,216 colors) is pretty sufficient for good graphics. ;-P



In any case, the game, if it is released, should not take any steps back, or stay in the same place, in any category.

[Electric Ir]

Its the same as Unreal has.

[Tubz]

3d in a 2d world that would be hard to make.

[Grath AR]

I say why not do 2D so EVERYONE can play not some stupid 3D shooter that wont run if you dont have a $200000000000 3D card!

[Kaz]

Grath, VDO cards only cost about $50-150



At least ones that are efficent do. I got mine at 100 and it runs extremely fast and I run in color more 1024x768 @ 32 colours all the time now.

[Jersey Devil]

This next bit applies to ALL games, not just JJ3:

I think options like colour depth, resolution, using 3D card or not etc. should be customisable, just for the sake of those who cannot afford 3D cards, or (much like I used to) own a PC which is non-upgradeable such as a laptop.



J.D..

[Newspaz]

3D-Cards are getting cheaper by the day. Now most pcs have one standard

[Batty Buddy]

Que Passa!!!!



Your still just thinking about 3D graphics in a 2D world? Bah.



I rented the new Nintendo game Paper Mario(Though in all due respect, I didn't like it anywhere near as much as the OTHER game I rented: Conker's Bad Fur Day.) and it clearly brings in the thought that Jazz 3 should be 2D graphics in a 3D world... Also, there should be an entire level devoted to funny noises.



Anyway, keep in mind the main problem with 3D games now- When compared to their 2D counterparts, they are either too short, too easy, or both. Jazz 3 should be made long, challangeing, and most importantly, FUN, or it should not be made at all. I doubt any of you would like to play a Jazz game that you finished in five hours.

[Bartman]

What if Jazz 3 was a 3D shooter?



I mean Duck Dodgers, Chex Quest and Banjo-Tooie pulled it off easily and not as violent as a regular shooter.

[ShadowGPW]

Hello? Anyone in home..

Today the game needs (Alice, Ra2 ect)

You need a p400 or higher and now these days 90% of the p400 and higher has a AGP videocart and 99% of the AGP carts has OPENGL or Direct 3d support..



I have a Asus v7700 Geforce 2 GTS 32mb DDR and i dont regret it what ive got in return in power.. Just see American McGee's Alice in 32 bits textures 32 bits colors and 1024x780 then you go WOW!..

[ShadowGPW]

The computer 2D age is totally over only RTS still has 2d although thats is a chance now too..

the next gen RTS has 3D, even Westwood and his C&C and Dune series will be in 3D and needs a AGP Opengl/Direct 3d cart

[Ninja Dodo]

Uh...Jazz is a 2D shooter. Shooters are 3D platform games.



That has changed a bit with the coming of games like Half Life though...

[Kaz]

You don't exactly need a fast computer to run 3d games...



I can run Banjo Kazooie on emu with a decent FPS rate, and rayman2 with a great FPS rate!



and guys... why not both. On multiplayer, why not make a small engine of Jazz that has all the items in a 2d world or a 3d game. ? I guess not...

[`~Shattered_Halo~`]

I heard that JJ3 isn't going to be multi-player, is this true?

and I wouldn't care, just as long as it was fun!(this concern the 2-D, 3-D question)

[Electric Ir]

There's a multiplayer function, but it doesn't work because the plan is dead.

[`~Shattered_Halo~`]

NOOOO!!!!!!

Oh well...It happens, but whos gonna make jj3 and when can we expect to see a demo of it?

[Newspaz]

Electric Just to make it clear. JJ3 as you think it is will never be taken up again. IF there is going to be a JJ3 it will probably be totaly rewritten. Probably it won't even be 3D anymore.



So the JJ3 you are talking about should be forgotten as soon as possible.

[Electric Ir]

I know that it will never be up again. The project is dead. All the JJ3 stuff is just wasting of time.

[`~Shattered_Halo~`]

*heh*its true too, jj2 was crappy in my opinion to Jazz1, heck thats the only reason I bought jazz2 was to get jazz1, truthfully, I've gotten into other games after I got tired of jazz2, so if they do or don't, It might be a small loss, but not much of one, its too bad though.....

[Coppertop]

jj2 crappy? I don't think so. In my eyes, it was 100% better!



Anyway, if there's not ever GOING to be jj3, why do we have an entire forum for it? (That's the impression I got, correct me if I'm wrong.) And besides, does it really matter if there's a jj3? I mean, I thought ppl joined JMMB/JCF 'cause they liked the current game, not 'cause they were hopin' for a new one.



*sigh* Look, even if we don't get jj3 (which, 3D or 2D, would be a bummer) we still have jj2 and Jazz1 to play. I haven't gotten bored with it yet, and I've owned it for a couple of years, 'cause the JCS (and tile-making) have kept me occupied. I know games get boring after a while, it's happened to me too. http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[F!re]

I think jazz 3 must be 3d

in the first place its the third game of jazz so it would have a good name: Jazz 3(d)



2nd 3d games have better gameplay options modes and graphics so it will interest more gamers so epic can earn more money.

Besides does the next generation of games know 2d http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Grath AR]

Lets all do this instead of arguing over 2d/3d: Go bug sonic team jr. to finish their 3d sonic game (that I can play w/out a 3d card) That can have new caracters and new levels!

Then Ppl can make their own chars (jazz,razz,spaz,eva,etc.) and not argue!

(note: the game is a doom legacy hack and in alpha/beta right now)

[Nobara]

First off:It cost more to publish a 3D game, and money, we don't have much of.

Second off:So, level building won't be much of a big deal? But still...

Third off:Not all of us have a new computer. And I certaintly don't think that someone is going to spend money on a game and go home and it doesn't work on their computer. I certainly think they would rather return it than spend 50-100 dollars on a card just for a game.



So, I might make no point what-so-ever, but I am just saying what I feel. I still vote for 2D.

[Myst BOD]

It should be 3D,

I also think that it is impossible to do JJ3 on internet if it was 3D and building also.



Jazz was made for 2D and 2D level building, so go away http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif you 3D people!!!



Myst

[Myst BOD]

Mistake it must be 2D ( I typed 2D)



Myst http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[F!re]

why bother it allrady is 3d

[ElectroPiZZa]

A big correction on Derby's last post; 8-bit is 256 colors, 16-bit is 65,536 colors, 24-bit is 16,777,216 colors, and 32-bit is even more. I knew this at first, and this was concluded when Monolith confirmed my theory in the Battle Server. I am right, HAT is wrong. Ha.

[Coppertop]

Wildie's right, but. . . 3D might be more fun. 2D's easier to control (my opinion only) but it gets old mighty fast. . . (Okay, I changed my mind. So sue me.)

[Tha Psycho]

Anyone ever heard of gameplay?

In JJ2 this already was the most important part. 3D is more beautifully, but the jazzfeeling will fade away and the gameplay with it. Though there are solutions to make the game 3D and still fun, but will JJ3 be this way?

[CelL]

I think it should be good `ol 2D. Well alright, 3D looks a lot beter maybe, but how will we build levels and do internet play??

No, 3D is nice, but its just not like Jazz Jackkrabbit too be 3D (except the bonus-stages in Jazz1http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif).

[Spazzyman]

you know it'd be cool if it were in 3D BUT, it should have shading for the characters like jet grind radio. that would be nice. =D

[Monolith]

Answer this question:

If the game is made in 2D, how can it be improved from JJ2, and offer a new style of gameplay?

[KILLERRABBIT(ICED KILLER)]

Hmmm good question Monolith.:ROLL:

[KILLERRABBIT(ICED KILLER)]

http://jazz2.nagcentral.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[roseta]

REMEMBER...the BONUS STAGES of JJ1 were 3D! HOW did they do it?! I didnt even have a pentieum!

[Monolith]

Very low resolution graphics was how they did it. 320x240 pixels, 8bit color depth, and the rendering of about only 30 square tiles.

[Kaz]

3d shouldn't be too hard, you've played Mario 64... except this time you'll have a gun.

[Newspaz]

JJ1 wasn't 320x240 but 320x200 Monolith.

[roseta]

I will get a 3D CARD!!!!!!!!!!

and they will have to too!!

[Monolith]

<SMALL>Right, 320x200...</SMALL>

[FireSworD]

JJ3 going to be 3D whether you like it or not.

[Tubz]

That's not true! Those were just screenshots, they can change their mind whenever they want to if they please. So the game could be 2D, after all Jazz 1 and Jazz 2 were 2D, why not Jazz Jackrabbit III be 2D as well?