Poll on Crashers Situation etc.

[NovaStar]

Well, everyone whines about people that are trying to help the current situation with crashers. They whine at PE, the listserver team, at mods... why? I mean, we're trying to help... but then I think, do THEY try and help?! Seriously, we try to help and all you people do is whine! Whine whine whine and not do anything else! Whine! Whine! Whine! It's all you do! Whine! So I've made a poll : Are YOU trying to help our situation with crashers? Vote honestly, please. If you vote "YES" or "SORT OF", post how. Thank you.

[R3ptile]

wow you make it sound way more dramatic than it is. most script kiddies already stopped crashing since they had to in order to participate in J2MC, others can be blocked by NeoAC easily. you're the only one who keeps whining tbh. grow up and stop pretending you care by creating useless threads.

[Sonyk]

There's no problem anymore. You're just unwilling to accept the demise of your brainchild PE, and try to make it look as though we're all to blame.

Which in itself is kind of ironic, since PE isn't an original idea at all. Its purpose is to do what we've been doing over the past 8 years, only reorganized to have you come out on top.

[Grytolle]

Shut up, ShadowRabbit... seriously.

[Stijn]

wow you make it sound way more dramatic than it is. most script kiddies already stopped crashing since they had to in order to participate in J2MC, others can be blocked by NeoAC easily. you're the only one who keeps whining tbh. grow up and stop pretending you care by creating useless threads.
wow, you are grownup you use no caps

ShadowRabbit, really, Sonyk is right: we're already reporting crashes etcetera. Unless your PE starts running the list server there's no reason for PE to exists as all that it does is already done, but without an organization. Guess what the Hacking Reports thread is for. I am afraid the one whining here is you, not all of us.

[FQuist]

I think you can both care and work for JJ2's security and criticizes PE - for example, Nimrod has done a lot, yet he has criticisms of PE. This poll makes it sound like whoever criticizes PE does not care for security. I myself am apparently part of the people people whine against (according to the poll), being a mod, and I care for security, but I also have a little trouble seeing the use of PE, because you've never really explained it. It's like Sonyk says, what can PE do that individuals cannot do? If I would have a crashing report I have access to the listservers forum, and I can report it there. Why should it be reported to PE? A lot of the enmity you see to PE is caused by that you take it very seriously while it's not clear what you intend to do and what the fuss is about. It seems to an outsider as if you're busier working on promoting PE than promoting/doing whatever it is for - any efforts like that are all but invisible. An example is the ERE security article. It needs work, but it was only edited by someone from PE to promote PE, not to improve its information on security.

If you wrote articles on improving security or participated in security discussion, or created resources for people on security together with your PE-groupmates - if you really create a purpose for PE that has added value, unlike the little added value it has now, that might be interesting and valuable, and people would "whine" less.

[jam]

PE, you may claim you try to help but when have you actually done anything?

[Violet CLM]

I'm not helping because I'm not really concerned. I don't host too often and when I do I don't seem to get crashed. Those servers I have seen get crashed tend to start back up again.

[Doubble Dutch]

I'm not helping because I can't wait for this forum to die so I can feed of its decaying corpse.

I'd actually try and make the situation worse, but that involves actual work, and you're all doing fine by yourself.

[Odin]

I help by choosing not to use ASD or other crashing devices, and by reporting anybody who cheats/crashes servers.

Also, I agree with everybody here, nothing really bad is happening, UNKNOWNFILE left and Orbitz and Thaspaz have stopped or at least calmed down to the point of the situation not being an immediate threat. However, even while the situation has been at its critical point, PE has apparently done nothing to help rectify the problem, at least, not moreso than what ordinary individuals have.

[Black Ninja]

Yes. My special brand of vigilante justice has destroyed two computers that were responsible for such "crashings."

[jam]

UNKNOWNFILE still crashes servers.

[Vegito]

UF is pretty unactive though. ThaSpaz told me he had stopped playing JJ2 <s> I wonder if ThaSpaz is Kuba ;p </s> And Orbitz, well I've seen him once after he got banned. I dont really see why you should still report things, since everything goes well again... And really, stop making useless threads. :Z

[NovaStar]

I think you can both care and work for JJ2's security and criticizes PE - for example, Nimrod has done a lot, yet he has criticisms of PE. This poll makes it sound like whoever criticizes PE does not care for security. I myself am apparently part of the people people whine against (according to the poll), being a mod, and I care for security, but I also have a little trouble seeing the use of PE, because you've never really explained it. It's like Sonyk says, what can PE do that individuals cannot do? If I would have a crashing report I have access to the listservers forum, and I can report it there. Why should it be reported to PE? A lot of the enmity you see to PE is caused by that you take it very seriously while it's not clear what you intend to do and what the fuss is about. It seems to an outsider as if you're busier working on promoting PE than promoting/doing whatever it is for - any efforts like that are all but invisible. An example is the ERE security article. It needs work, but it was only edited by someone from PE to promote PE, not to improve its information on security.

If you wrote articles on improving security or participated in security discussion, or created resources for people on security together with your PE-groupmates - if you really create a purpose for PE that has added value, unlike the little added value it has now, that might be interesting and valuable, and people would "whine" less.

1. I never meant that.

2. Well, of course I have to promote PE to get more members... BN is out due to inactivity and that makes ONE member, me. I can't do the said "promote/do whatever it is for" if I don't have any members... :p

3. Wuld try but would be edited out by people saying "zomgz idiot that isnt right". I'm a little behind the current security itself, I'm sad to say. Oh, and create security rescources with other PE members when there are none? I lol.

Oh yes, and I've tried discussing helping PE to jam but all ears are blocked. Shame.

[FQuist]

You should take into consideration that people must first see the added value of being in PE and see that PE has a purpose, before wanting to join. Why join otherwise? Showing PE is useful is better promotion then going around and promoting it everywhere.

[Sonyk]

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that PE had no true members, other than yourself, ShadowRabbit. Most people did so jokingly, or critisized you.

[Monolith]

I would like to mention that even if things seem fine, it is still good to make crash reports just in case someone starts acting up.

[Trafton]

The sky is falling! It must be Wednesday.

[CrimiClown]

I voted 'Sort of'. If I can log an IP and get some proper screenshots, I'm always willing to send them in.

[Birdie]

<s> I wonder if ThaSpaz is Kuba ;p </s>
No, He isn't.

[Kuba]

Ofcourse not, I never crash servers!

[Torkell]

Yes, I am trying to help.

I'm slowly (very slowly due to other stuff) working on a packet filtering program for JJ2 servers. At the moment it sort of works, except for a lack of filtering and some problems with listservers. Current rough status and todo list:

Done:
* Intercept and near-transparently proxy client UDP and TCP connections to JJ2
* Support multiple clients

Critical:
* Add filtering code (I've got this planned out, just need to write it)
* Handle 'blind' UDP packets (e.g. pings)

Useful:
* Add logging
* Add kick/ban support (JJ2 will ban all clients when using the filter)

Nice:
* Add plugin support (plugins will have full read/write on all packets)

At the moment I don't have a release date, however I will inform everyone nearer the time.

[Grytolle]

Cool!

[Vegito]

Ofcourse not, I never crash servers!

Lies. =P

[Nimrod]

Im never willing to help ya know.. Im like only one of two people who can actually enact a ban, and you never see me help.

Though seriously, all reports should be giving to myself or Monolith. I personally wont accept reports via PE.

[Grytolle]

Haha, you rock lately nimmy!

(the crashing reports-thread is still alright though?)

[NovaStar]

Though seriously, all reports should be giving to myself or Monolith. I personally wont accept reports via PE.
And why so?

[NovaStar]

You should take into consideration that people must first see the added value of being in PE and see that PE has a purpose, before wanting to join. Why join otherwise? Showing PE is useful is better promotion then going around and promoting it everywhere.
Sorry for the double post, but I can't understand your post.

[n00b]

Sorry for the double post, but I can't understand your post.
People don't see much purpose in joining PE if it does everything they can normally do just with a Middleman.
Instead of promoting to join PE, give good solid reasons why. "We help save JJ2!" is not a good, solid reason.


Thats how I interpeted Frank's post, but I guess you should wait until he replies

[FQuist]

N00b's correct.

In short, your group seems to be entirely dedicated to recruiting by just telling people to join your group, and since no effort seems to be spent at doing whatever is the group's purpose to do, nobody will join since they do not see which purpose it is. Instead of going around recruiting people all the time, try doing something useful so that people know that there is actually any reason for joining. It might get you more members than just going around namedropping "PE" at every opportunity.

[NovaStar]

Actually I was amazed you replied so quickly, but see the PE thread 2.

[Sonyk]

The PE Thread 2 is exactly the thing he's hinting at you to avoid. If you can prove that PE can do anything effective, you'll be likely to spark some interest and people might be interested in joining. If you just keep trying to persuade people to become members, the support you'll recieve is none, since no one believes that there's anything PE can do. You don't need a big annoying forum thread to gain members, just do something productive.

[NovaStar]

"See the PE Thread 2 for more info and readposts CAREFULLY" - Rephrasion.