Do you think it is possible to make a new level editor from scratch?

[WaterRabbit]

This is just a poll to see if you think it is possible to make a new level editor for JJ2 from scratch. If you think it is possible then it probably would have to be made in C++.

Edit: I forgot to add a poll.
Can an admin add the poll?

Poll Options:
Yes
No
Show who picked which option
Don't put a closing date for poll

[cooba]

I've had a better level editor in plans since a while, but never got anywhere close to actually organising such a project... Such a project would require a few more than just one people, but it would be still fairly easy to do, as we know the J2T and J2L formats. Anyway, a JCS SE as I see (and call) it, would have got better animation control (a textbox rather than a lousy bar for animation speed, say), clearer event listing, easier documentation, simpler tileset creation process, lots of stuff in general...

<s>anyone wants to take on?</s>

[n00b]

It's possible, but the community proabbaly doesn't have the work ethic needed to get it done

[minmay]

Well, we would probably need Epic's permission first, and considering they won't even reply to emails about JJ2...

But yes, it's possible.

[Violet CLM]

It's possible, but I don't think it's really required. How much stuff can we do by hacking into .j2l/.j2t files that can't be done with JCS? I can only think of a few small things, and those could just have their own program/s rather than a whole new level editor.

[Grytolle]

Of course it's possible, no need to make a stupid poll.

[niek]

Making a new level editor is useless. All things you need to make or edit a .j2l file can be done with JCS. But in my opinion, only a better tileset compiler could be handy.

[Birdie]

You don't need a better tileset compiler.

[R3ptile]

Of course it wouldn't be useless

[Murderbeam]

That would be Nice, but WHO would do it?
Sigh...

[Marijn]

Of course it wouldn't be useless
Yes it is, :rolleyes:

[R3ptile]

Yes it is, :rolleyes:
Not really :rolleyes:

The original JCS would become useless then.

[Black Ninja]

I must disagree. Even with a new JCS, I'd probably still only use the original. You can't beat first-party software.

[Cpp]

You can't beat first-party software.I must disagree. ;-)
I see some potential to new/unused features that the original JCS seems to lack. For example it only allows strings up to 127 characters long where they can be up to 511.

[cooba]

Color picker for layer 8 textures and "browse" buttons for level properties (i.e. next level) instead of lousy textboxes. Like Overlord said, quad longer text strings. Textboxes for animation speeds and level lighting instead of stupid bars. Simpler tileset creation process, clearer documentation, etcetc. Tons of stuff which could be done in a JCS SE.

[n00b]

To be honest, for lighting the bar isn't that big of a deal.

[Neobeo]

First thing that comes to mind is Frank's online JCS clone thingy for LMAT. A toolbox version of JCS could come in handy for that; ability to open images as maskless tilesets. Also, I think the tileset manager/compiler needs some work. Probably a built-in tileset editor/decompiler as well. Aside from the obvious interface flaws, it should have the ability to convert 1.24 to 1.23 as well.

<strike>I actually think it is a good idea. But this is a somewhat biased opinion since I am more interested in creating it than actually using it.</strike>

[FQuist]

The main question, I think, is if the goal is worth the work. See, for a hook/scripting language/server tool/etc the work can improve jazz2 immensily (see the possibilities with Neobeo's hook, or how useful Project Controller is). The goal is worth the work in these cases: it pays off. A JCS clone would be a substantial amount of work, and would it pay off?

Consider that:
1a There seems to be a great lack of talented level/tileset creators (the human kind, not the program kind). This lack of people is greater than there is a lack of jcs tools.
1b Only a couple of people have taken JCS 'to the max' and exploit its current functionality.
1c This tool would therefore be mostly beneficial to the small elite of talented people, and not neccessarily beneficial to the greater public.
2 Recreating JCS + a tileset compiler is a huge amount of work
3 There are many things that would be (more?) useful to the community right now. A good chatlogger, scripting abilities, server tools (level voting, kickvoting, etc), security tools.
3 There aren't many good programmers in the community.
4 Their time may be better spent (it's their decision though, of course, and they're free to do whatever they want) on things that have a bigger work/payoff ratio.
5 If the additions would just be some textboxes/colour pickers/etc it would be odd to recreate an entire program for it
6 A tileset creator could be created independendly from JCS if it's needed

Neobeo mentioned my online JCS. what I do think is that maybe, if there'd be some collaborative JCS/a JCS with version control/online repository features, that might be worth the work.

[Cpp]

it should have the ability to convert 1.24 to 1.23 as well.Don't you mean the ability to open jj2 levels of any version and the ability to "Save as..." 1.23 or 1.24?

[blurredd]

FQuist: I think if the features were simplified and made more efficient along with better documentation, new JCS users would be encouraged to make levels. I agree there are other (relatively) more important issues, but it doesn't mean this project can't be worked on in the meanwhile.

[Monolith]

Sure it's possible, but it would take a lot of effort. And as far as I've seen, this community doesn't have all that much effort to put into projects.

[Grytolle]

Just because your project wasn't very well received? ;p And anyway talking about anything but whether it's possible or not is way off topic :(

[n00b]

I don't think they want to put alot of effort into projects they know nothing about.

[FQuist]

Just because your project wasn't very well received? ;p And anyway talking about anything but whether it's possible or not is way off topic :(
Possum wasn't finished, Mechaius wasn't finished, the 1.25 council is mostly idle, etc...so far, there are barely any (if any) multi-person projects that have finished. It's visible again and again that this community has too small a talent pool (not because it's not talented but because it's small) to take on big projects. Emphasis on <b>big</b>.

I think it's on-topic enough.

[Cpp]

"Anything is possible to do. All you have to do is be willing to do it." - My quote
What's harder than making a big project? Finding the will to make one.

[Violet CLM]

If there are a few things JCS can't do like long text strings and saving in multiple versions, that doesn't require a whole level editor. Just various utilities like a ".j2l version editor" or something.

[Dermo]

it'd be tough but possible. I only wish that people would edit jcs more so you could do more stuff.

[Birdie]

it'd be tough but possible. I only wish that people would edit jcs more so you could do more stuff.
If you wanted to do more stuff you might also have to edit the game accordingly.