Comprehensive open source application project?

[Tik]

I am not very active in the subsection of this community that still plays the game often. However, in observing j2o, the jcf, and lots of discussions and #jj2, I've noticed a couple of trends.

First of all, there are a lot of applications to help modify and convenience using jazz2. From chat loggers to anti-crashers, there are dozens of programs people have released. Most of these focus on a couple of aspects of jj2.

Secondly, because of the large number of programs, a lot of people feel the need to run several of them at once when they run jazz2, which is inconvenient.

There are, as well, some groups that have existed to promote changes in jazz2 by producing programs and in studying how the programs work. They have mapped out memory addresses and sprites and documented a lot of useful information.

Because our community seems to have a number of people interested in programming or studying jj2 with similar objectives, I wondered why there hasn't been a proposal for some new group. What I have in mind is an open source project with goals to make a comprehensive application or group of applications to fix bugs in jj2 and give people convenient access to new features. This would mean that several programs would not have to be run with jazz2 and that everyone in the community could work together towards something.

I don't -believe- something like this has been attempted before with jj2. There are or were several groups with these sort of ideals in mind, but I think an open project might help unify the community. As for logistics and who would do managing, I don't know. That's thinking far ahead. I just felt like sharing the idea, and hearing your thoughts.

[Black Ninja]

If this went far enough I'd be willing to consider sharing the hi-res code.

[Monolith]

I had requested a group to help with a larger project before, but there was little interest and nothing happened. Maybe people weren't as interested as they are now, or maybe the requirements of a real project were a bit too much.

[Grytolle]

When was that Monolith? I'm definately in, eventhough my compilable coding sucks horsedong.

[Tik]

When was that Monolith? I'm definately in, eventhough my compilable coding sucks horsedong.There is nothing to be 'in' yet. I was just introducing the idea and we'll see where it goes from there.

I don't recall your project either, Mono. This idea would hopefully involve some real dedication from a few people (mainly for something such as establishing a site and database and decided what is going to happen), but beyond that all of the real programming would be a joint effort.

[Alister]

I had an idea to form a committee to standardise the set of utilities people should and shouldn't use, but nothing really came of it. This sounds like a much better idea - if that committee actually made a single utility which performed the agreed-upon functions, it would be much easier to enforce.

[Grytolle]

There is nothing to be 'in' yet. I was just introducing the idea and we'll see where it goes from there.I'm up for it anyway}>

[Birdie]

I'm up for it anyway}>
I'll help too.

[Cpp]

Sounds interesting. I have much knowledge about jj2 memory parts and tricks that I used in mayn Visual Basic applications. Recently I have moved to C++ and this is where I put most of my time today. My current research is the J2L uncompressed data structure.

[Erik]

heh, i've finally learned dll programming, so if there's anything i could help with, count me in. (i know win32 api programming)

[Neobeo]

Honestly sounds like a good idea. Count me in. Even though I'm limited to weekends.

[jam]

Count me in too! Oh and before this project starts- for gods sake don't start making awesome programs and not releasing them to the public and making up stupid excuses why.

[n00b]

They're not released to the public because they don't exist. All that cool stuff is done with their MINDS

[Birdie]

they don't exist.
I'am not so sure. ;)

[n00b]

All that cool stuff is done with their MINDS
Stop cherry picking

Derby: Content removal. Avoid inappropriate slang expressions.

[Monolith]

This was what I had posted earlier: http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=13846

Mostly I ended up with people who only had memory addresses, couldn't program very well, or just didn't have the time.

[Grytolle]

Next time try presenting the project too? :o

[Neobeo]

This was what I had posted earlier: http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=13846

Mostly I ended up with people who only had memory addresses, couldn't program very well, or just didn't have the time.

I wasn't there then ;o.

[Fawriel]

But wouldn't an open-source project make it easier for crashers to bypass it?

[Marijn]

Monolith write in his request post:

Have some knowledge, or preferably experience, in dealing with the inner workings of JJ2 or associated files. (Memory editing, file formats, how to patch particular bugs, how to make Jazz2.exe do what you want, etc.)

There is my problem, but I will watch! =)

[Stijn]

But wouldn't an open-source project make it easier for crashers to bypass it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open_source_vs._closed_source

[Fawriel]

"However, having the source code for a program could also make it easier for a malicious person to discover security vulnerabilities that they can take advantage of (instead of reporting or fixing them)."
..I guess that means yes, then?

[Xobim]

Yes, but the vulnerabilities can be fixed much faster...

[Monolith]

It is possible for vulnerabilities to be fixed faster, but just as easy for vulnerabilities to be taken advantage of. It makes things happen faster on both sides, but also remember that it's usually harder to fix something than it is to break it. Plus it depends greatly on how many people there are working on either side.

I could try to open up my project again. It is still relevant. By open up I mean letting people who can possibly contribute learn about it and help work on it. The project will remain hidden to the public until it becomes clear that the project will be completed and become available. Otherwise if it's never going to happen, there's no point in telling anybody about it. Besides, it could change as more planning goes into it. I still have a few things set up so that multiple people could easily contribute to the project, such as a wiki and a subversion repository, so I should be able to start things again without too much trouble.

[blurredd]

I don't believe open source projects are always a good idea (I agree with what Fawriel said), but I think making only certain parts of the application open source could be an alternative.

[Falcury]

What I have in mind is an open source project with goals to make a comprehensive application or group of applications to fix bugs in jj2 and give people convenient access to new features.

Does PTB (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4189) qualify? I'm not so sure whether I want to release the source code just yet, however, because I enjoy making new features/finding things out myself a lot.
In the long run, I almost certainly will release the source code. In that way, others can continue/help with the development and I will just be a part of it.

[Neobeo]

It's been almost a year from when this was first brought up, yet nothing has been done. Well, there is the awesome j2nsm, <strike>which has the source code</strike>. But it would still be useful to have a "standard set of utilities", or at least some guidelines regarding jj2 utilities.

[FreeFull]

I will be in when I will learn enough about pointers <s>and while loops</s>.

[Jerrythabest]

Grytolle asked me to make a database site for memory addresses once, but it never really came to something useful. If this project is going to come alive, I'm willing to build such a database anyway so that people can add and look up memory addresses.

[FreeFull]

Grytolle asked me to make a database site for memory addresses once, but it never really came to something useful. If this project is going to come alive, I'm willing to build such a database anyway so that people can add and look up memory addresses.

here (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/wiki/index.php?List_of_Jazz_Jackrabbit_2_Memory_Address es)

[Jerrythabest]

That's not very easy to work with... if the list grows bigger the page will become far too long. For now, it's the easiest way though.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

I'm using Linux, I know nothing about memory addressing, and the most programming I know is JavaScript.

But I'm willing to learn.}>

[Tik]

I completely forgot about this entire idea. One thing I should have mentioned is that I simply had the idea, I cannot organize, manage, or even contribute significantly besides perhaps beta testing.

It would take some initiative and dedication on the part of a handful of people to make a project like this work. Those with the knowledge and experience to organize such a thing would do well to volunteer or simply take some leading action. Here are some things to consider:

- what it would be written in and how it would be compiled
- designing the layout and capabilities of a website catering to this purpose
- whether or not it should have restricted access or be truly open source
- a list of functions this master program would need to do, and how they would be organized in the program itself

Just some things to think about.

[Jerrythabest]

- designing the layout and capabilities of a website catering to this purposeI'd like to do that :D

[Dermo]

1.23+ is the best way to go.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

I don't care what exactly it is. Just give me an assignment and I'll do my best to complete it.

[Dermo]

I don't care what exactly it is. Just give me an assignment and I'll do my best to complete it.

When I said 1.23+ is the way to go I didn't mean that should be the name of it.

I meant that this has been done before in a file called 1.23+ (sigh)

How about actually checking to see if this has been done before? You know? Using the search button? Here i'll help you out a little...

http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4512

(the search button is your best friend)

[ShadeJackrabbit]

http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/dow...p?levelID=4512
Numerous bugs, mainly only good for online play.

[Grytolle]

1.23+ isn't open source

[ShadeJackrabbit]

That too.

[sonicnathan 1]

When you say 'Bugs" do you mean small things like CTF bugs or big things like fixing dead events?

[Birdie]

having an event that doesn't work wouldn't be a bug.

[Grytolle]

It is a bug if it was intended to work.

[sonicnathan 1]

You know what I mean. Even so I think we need the source in order to fix dead events

[Grytolle]

Nah.

[Dermo]

you really don't need the source dissassemble the dll file

[sonicnathan 1]

WHAT?!?!? THEN HOW COME KNOW BODY HAS TAKEN THE TIME TO FIX DEAD EVENTS MANUALLY IF WE DON"T NEED THE SOURCE!!!!!!!!!????? IF SOMEBODY WOULD GIVE ME INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO IT I"D WOULD HAVE TRIED IT A LONG TIME AGO!!



Sorry. I had to get that out..............

[Grytolle]

Which DLL, moo?

[Birdie]

WHAT?!?!? THEN HOW COME KNOW BODY HAS TAKEN THE TIME TO FIX DEAD EVENTS MANUALLY IF WE DON"T NEED THE SOURCE!!!!!!!!!????? IF SOMEBODY WOULD GIVE ME INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO IT I"D WOULD HAVE TRIED IT A LONG TIME AGO!!



Sorry. I had to get that out..............

Do you know ASM, if not you wouldn't have been able to.

[Grytolle]

well he could do with haxxxxxxxx knowledge of uh.. machine code

[Jerrythabest]

1.23+ caused my computer to crash completely multiple times... a seperate program with many features is the way to go IMO ;p

[ShadeJackrabbit]

We could write it in Java so it would be cross-platform compatible!

[Grytolle]

1.23+ caused my computer to crash completely multiple times... a seperate program with many features is the way to go IMO ;pThat would be because I stressed a couple of game modes. It has nothing to do with whether it's a separate program or not. Having to open a separate program is just an annoying hassle :p

[sonicnathan 1]

I'd love to help with this project if I knew anything about hacking and programing.

[Jerrythabest]

I know enaugh about hacking and programming to look up memory addresses and change their values (or prevent their values from being changed) but that's about everything I can do with JJ2 ;p

[Grytolle]

Prevent them from being changed or immediatly reset them!?!?

[Neobeo]

How about we just stick a scripting language onto Jazz2.exe?

[Grytolle]

Sounds very good!

[Jerrythabest]

Prevent them from being changed or immediatly reset them!?!?

immediately reset them... has almost the same effect as preventing them from being changed ;p