Dear J2O Downloaders, You're all shallow.

[n00b]

I feel that after getting over 70 downloads, and 15 reviews, on this parody of a recent Wallpaper upload (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4264) I should at least give back to the community a bit more than a poorly done wallpaper (Which I am quite fond of reading your interpetations on. I also like how all of them are mostly false), and this is it.
A simple letter. It reads as so.
Dear J2O Downloaders,
You're all shallow.
Signed,
n00b

ALL of you are shallow. I notice almost every time a purposely poor level/whatever is uploaded theres at least 7 reviews bashing it. At least seven. Whenever there is a highly praised SP pack, that same number occurs again. All it takes is one incredibly stellar or incredibly crappy upload, and the whole community jumps on and praise or bash the hell out of it.
Keep in mind, I did not request a review for my wallpaper.
I did not request critique for my scribbles.
You all brought it anyways. Meanwhile this diamond in the rough of a battle pack (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4256) has a nice shiny logo reading "REVIEW PLZ".
Do you people not speak english or something? I hardly have time to review at all, so do alot of people. I also tend to not review MP levels since they require to be played online, and It's hard to find a host, and harder to find people to play in the level.
Regardless, you people had the time to bash a random wallpaper. You had the time to describe it despite 14 others already describing it for you, someone even had the time to be twice as shallow. Let me quote "da man"'s review:
It would be great if a level gets reviewed more times as well. This thing gets ‘reviewed’ lots of times. Anyway, this is pretty simple. I can’t draw very well myself, but this could have been much better.
I know most people are saying "Well whats wrong with that?". I'll tell whats wrong, he starts of by saying the wallpaper gets reviewed way to much (and frankly he's right) but he then goes on and does the exact same thing everyone else is doing.
This is the equivilent of a Police Officer telling you drugs are bad at a school rally and is then found afterwards in the bathroom snorting crack. I think the word is "Hypocrite".

So, J2Oers, I have a proposition for you: Maybe if you actually review good levels (and I'm also at fault here, I admit) then maybe people will have incentive to make good levels or improve really crappy ones. Also, ignore reviewing outlandishly bad uploadss when purposely done (because I'm ready to call all of you shallow again and type another rant, don't think I won't).
If all the 15 people who took the time to wastefully complain about a darn wallpaper invested that time review levels, and if by chance every 5 people reviewed the same level, we would have 5 reviews each for 3 levels. Thats more reviews than most levels actually get these days.
In a day where people complain there aren't good uploads, and there aren't enough reviews (Hell, uploads have resorted to pasting "Review plz" in their descriptions, at times to no avail) I'm deeply appaled at 15 people wasting about on a wallpaper instead of one of the dozens of other real, actual, levels that go unreviewed.

[Fawriel]

I guess it's worth noting that an okay review of a good levelpack takes a lot longer to write than those post-it-note-reviews, but you are correct.

[n00b]

I guess it's worth noting that an okay review of a good levelpack takes a lot longer to write than those post-it-note-reviews, but you are correct.
5-8 minutes of one's time is all to much to ask is it?

[n00b]

I wasn't directing that at you, but rather to anyone would potentially use your first sentence as an excuse as to why they only do post-it reviews are extremely bad uploads.

[NovaStar]

Meh, I tend to just download, delete if it's bad and not review.

[KRSplat]

It takes effort to review a level, and people are lazy.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly.

However, I reviewed the wallpaper just to spite you.

[DanYjel]

...
ALL of you are shallow.
...
ALL of us*

[cooba]

I virtually applaud this. <s>Feel free to figure out why.</s>

[DarkSonic]

Hehe, funny that my comment gets mentioned here. There are still some levels that didn't get reviewed yet. Myself I reviewed Personal Park, but The Death Facility and other ones still need a review.

[Camou]

I don't review levels because I'm bad at it, art is a lot easier to critique on imo. I think that might also be one of the reasons why lots of people comments.

Edit: GJ N00b, you made me place a review on 'Random Battle levels'.

[Speeza]

(-) rate my grave g,im trying to become a elite level maker,i need to know how well ive done.
why can't i get 7 reviews like you noob?

[Fawriel]

Well, apparently your levels are mediocre.
If your levels suck, people will gather in hoards to smear into your face just how bad they are.
If your levels are awesome, a bunch of people will tell you how much you rock.
If they are mediocre, I guess you'll have to figure out how to become good yourself, because nobody likes mediocre levels.

...that sounds really stupid, but I have the feeling it's true.

[Speeza]

Well, apparently your levels are mediocre.
If your levels suck, people will gather in hoards to smear into your face just how bad they are.
If your levels are awesome, a bunch of people will tell you how much you rock.
If they are mediocre, I guess you'll have to figure out how to become good yourself, because nobody likes mediocre levels.

...that sounds really stupid, but I have the feeling it's true.

Well lets see you make a level.

[cooba]

Well lets see you make a level.He did, all of them are rated above 8 I believe?

[Fawriel]

I didn't mean to criticize you with that. Sorry if it sounded like it. I don't know your levels, I just made an assumption as to why you don't get many reviews. Think about it, it's much easier to just bash something that sucks or praise something that rocks than to actually provide constructive criticism for something that could use some improvement in order to become something good.


EDIT: I think so, Cooba.

[Speeza]

He did, all of them are rated above 8 I believe?

:o ive got above a 7

[CrimiClown]

... I agree, but does it count if you USE the wallpaper too? ;)

n00b is actually VERY very right on this one... I know my levels are far from the best (at least I try, eh? I'm getting better and better quickly...) and I only have 5 reviews so far without actually asking for one. Heck, even when I DO ask for one, I often don't get it anyway.

[cooba]

:o ive got above a 7You do? I must have missed something in my review reports then.

[n00b]

You do? I must have missed something in my review reports then.
Too bad his most praising review was downright terrible (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4198) I quote "I love this tileset.You selected good tileset for that level " Keep in mind, thats half the review. The other half is something about girls being good, not so sure what that had to do with the level. Without that review, his level would have a 6.5 average. Theres also a review made by Jamster's brother. Since thats against the rules, we'll have to tack off the review leaving the average at 4.3. Or we could leave Musti's review in the long run, and level will get a 6.7, still short of a seven.

[Strato]

Even still, reviews have become so misleading these days. Any review that wasn't made by a well established person tends to be well over or way under.

In terms of perspective, all of the levels that people actually play regularly are all at least 8.0's or much higher. Usually 8.8+. Therefore, in order to even have a playable level, it has to be stunningly good, considering it's getting harder and harder to get those marks these days.

[Dermo]

Well lets see you make a level.

Good point Ryder.

Well, apparently your levels are mediocre.
If your levels suck, people will gather in hoards to smear into your face just how bad they are.
If your levels are awesome, a bunch of people will tell you how much you rock.
If they are mediocre, I guess you'll have to figure out how to become good yourself, because nobody likes mediocre levels.

...that sounds really stupid, but I have the feeling it's true.

I didn't mean to criticize you with that. Sorry if it sounded like it. I don't know your levels, I just made an assumption as to why you don't get many reviews. Think about it, it's much easier to just bash something that sucks or praise something that rocks than to actually provide constructive criticism for something that could use some improvement in order to become something good.


Yeah I'm pretty well convinced that that definately wasn't meant to criticize.

(sarcasm)

He did, all of them are rated above 8 I believe?

First of all, Cooba what do you mean all of them? He only did ONE FRIGGIN LEVEL! Now I guess I don't have room to talk considering I haven't uploaded any of my levels but n00b is right. You all are just downright (-)!!!

[n00b]

All of Faw's levels are under his old name, Piccolo. Trust me, theres quite a bit.

[Fawriel]

...firstly, what n00b said. Secondly, I checked, and most of my levels are not rated above 8, but are somewhere around it ( if you disregard small crap I uploaded years ago.. in fact, most of that was uploaded years ago ). Here (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/browse.php?userUploadsID=975) and here (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/browse.php?userUploadsID=2053).

Thirdly, what the heck? Why has this turned into a discussion about my levelmaking skills anyway? I never meant to criticize Ryder, I never even played any of his levels. In fact, I never download anything anymore these days. What I did was a general attempt at answering his question, which might have been a LITTLE insensitively formulated, but seriously, if you are that offended by that, you must be pretty full of yourself.

[minmay]

I think it's because most people hate you, Faw.

[n00b]

if you are that offended by that, you must be pretty full of yourself.

To quote the Odin, "Ryder has an ego bigger than Sol"

[KRSplat]

I think it's because most people hate you, Faw.
you lie

[Strato]

I like Faw lots =D.

[Blackraptor]

Thing is though, n00b, it took me about 5 seconds to download the wallpaper and about another 10 seconds to look at it and type up a review. On the other hand, it took me over an hour (I can't remember exactly how much over, though) to review the IC battle pack, and a LOT more thinking and such too.

The point is, your comparison to your upload and other level uploads in terms and all that stuff you said about the numbers of reviews etc. isnt entirely accurate. Anyone can take 15 seconds to look at a picture and post a witty (or not so witty) comment in reply to it, but not everyone feels like spending an hour to play through and criticize a level or level pack.

[White Rabbit]

Your review doesn't count, Blacky, since its rating got removed and, you must agree, it was much crappier than the one on IC. :p

[NovaStar]

One thing I've noticed is that ratings are quite inbalanced. Take my Penguin Hotel for example. Go search it and download it. Then look at it's rating. N/A. Now search for flat battle by golden jazz and look at THAT. Much lower quality, and a 1.

[Speeza]

What tf Flat battle is the best jj2 level ever.
I give it a 10.

[NovaStar]

You must be INSANE.

[Speeza]

You must be INSANE.

or sarcastic;-)

[Camou]

Innocent, people probably didn't rate it because it's a hotel. You can't review hotels, you'd need to host them and singleplayer hotels suck. Golden Jazz's battle can be reviewed properly seeing as it's ment to be played together and it can be played in Singleplayer to learn the layout and stuff. Singleplayer in hotel has no use.

[cooba]

Uploading hotels on J2O has no use in general. And then again neither do the hotels themselves.

[Speeza]

with hotels,its different,normaly you hate hotels or love hotels,its normaly never hotels are ok,or hotels are a bit good.

[minmay]

I like Faw lots =D.


Yay I'm not alone =D

...and I said "most people."

[Camou]

with hotels,its different,normaly you hate hotels or love hotels,its normaly never hotels are ok,or hotels are a bit good.

... Would you care to translate the last part?

Hotels/cities like Ogi City are better than, for example a hotel without eyecandy, fun things and stuff.

[Speeza]

Get out of my thread,shoo shoo,dam camou's thease days,everywhere.

[n00b]

Get out of my thread,shoo shoo,dam camou's thease days,everywhere.
Ryder can you please stbu and just not reply here anymore?

[DarkSonic]

Get out of my thread,shoo shoo,dam camou's thease days,everywhere.

It's not your thread.

And I agree. I don't like hotels, although I am not saying that hotels are bad.

[Blackraptor]

Your review doesn't count, Blacky, since its rating got removed and, you must agree, it was much crappier than the one on IC. :p


WR pretty much all the reviews for n00bs upload are similar to mine. And you kinda missed the point too, it's still a review.

[Speeza]

Ryder can you please stbu and just not reply here anymore?

noob stop being yourself.

[KRSplat]

Guys, stop being so shallow. This thread isn't about how many people like Faw, or how much you like hotels. This thread is about how reviews suck nowadays.

Maybe J2O should allow unsupported ratings, just to stimulate reviewers.

[White Rabbit]

WR pretty much all the reviews for n00bs upload are similar to mine. And you kinda missed the point too, it's still a review.

You said that it took you 'about 5 seconds to download the wallpaper and about another 10 seconds to look at it and type up a review', and 'On the other hand, it took me over an hour...to review the IC battle pack, and a LOT more thinking and such too.'

You truthfully said that 'Anyone can take 15 seconds to look at a picture and post a witty (or not so witty) comment in reply to it, but not everyone feels like spending an hour to play through and criticize a level or level pack'.

Why doesn't it take you 10 seconds to look at a level and type up a review? Why doesn't it take you over an hour to review a wallpaper? I think your answer would be that you (and everyone else who thinks it's too time consuming to review) have failed to take into account that you can write just as much for a wallpaper as you can for a level pack and that the minumum requirements of a valid review are still very low (there's absolutely no requirement to play MP levels online or to even have finished a singleplayer episode, when reviewing), provided your ratings aren't too extreme.

I said 'Your review doesn't count, Blacky, since its rating got removed and, you must agree, it was much crappier than the one on IC' because the two reviews cannot be compared fairly. When reviewing the wallpaper, you haven't even reached the minimum requirements of a review, you've given it a 10, and you've got promptly edited. The fact that almost everyone else did the same as you is no defence. When reviewing the level pack, you've actually spent time and effort, but I bet you'd have to think harder and spend more time if your wallpaper review was going to be as long and probing as your IC pack review.

You can say the bare minumum still makes for bad reviews, but that's still better than neglecting quality uploads in favour of a joke wallpaper with a joke review and (I'm no longer talking to you, Blacky) leave it like that, like so many other people have done.

[Speeza]

You said that it took you 'about 5 seconds to download the wallpaper and about another 10 seconds to look at it and type up a review', and 'On the other hand, it took me over an hour...to review the IC battle pack, and a LOT more thinking and such too.'

You truthfully said that 'Anyone can take 15 seconds to look at a picture and post a witty (or not so witty) comment in reply to it, but not everyone feels like spending an hour to play through and criticize a level or level pack'.

Why doesn't it take you 10 seconds to look at a level and type up a review? Why doesn't it take you over an hour to review a wallpaper? I think your answer would be that you (and everyone else who thinks it's too time consuming to review) have failed to take into account that you can write just as much for a wallpaper as you can for a level pack and that the minumum requirements of a valid review are still very low (there's absolutely no requirement to play MP levels online or to even have finished a singleplayer episode, when reviewing), provided your ratings aren't too extreme.

I said 'Your review doesn't count, Blacky, since its rating got removed and, you must agree, it was much crappier than the one on IC' because the two reviews cannot be compared fairly. When reviewing the wallpaper, you haven't even reached the minimum requirements of a review, you've given it a 10, and you've got promptly edited. The fact that almost everyone else did the same as you is no defence. When reviewing the level pack, you've actually spent time and effort, but I bet you'd have to think harder and spend more time if your wallpaper review was going to be as long and probing as your IC pack review.

You can say the bare minumum still makes for bad reviews, but that's still better than neglecting quality uploads in favour of a joke wallpaper with a joke review and (I'm no longer talking to you, Blacky) leave it like that, like so many other people have done.

*Claps* well done for explaining a straight foward thing to a noob,now noob do you see why,or does WR have to right another thing to help you?

[Blackraptor]

The thing is WR, n00b was complaining about how his upload was receiving so many reviews and how we should have used the time to review other uploads instead. I dont think people spent more than 10 seconds on their reviews for his upload though, really, so his statement about how people are able to put in time to review his upload but not other quality ones doesn't make a really strong point as the majority of his reviews werent even serious or longer than two sentences and shouldn't even be considered reviews.

And there are more aspects to a level than to a wallpaper that wasn't even made seriously, so a level would obviously take longer to write up a review for.

Therefore, people are able to take 10 seconds out of their time to look at a picture and post a comment, but playing through a level and reviewing it takes considerably more work no matter how you write your reviews and not everyone is willing to do that, which is why you can't really compare the wallpaper to a quality upload with few reviews in its current state imo.

[Speeza]

The thing is WR, n00b was complaining about how his upload was receiving so many reviews and how we should have used the time to review other uploads instead. I dont think people spent more than 10 seconds on their reviews for his upload though, really, so his statement about how people are able to put in time to review his upload but not other quality ones doesn't make a really strong point as the majority of his reviews werent even serious or longer than two sentences and shouldn't even be considered reviews.

And there are more aspects to a level than to a wallpaper that wasn't even made seriously, so a level would obviously take longer to write up a review for.

Therefore, people are able to take 10 seconds out of their time to look at a picture and post a comment, but playing through a level and reviewing it takes considerably more work no matter how you write your reviews and not everyone is willing to do that, which is why you can't really compare the wallpaper to a quality upload with few reviews in its current state imo.

Well what do you expect? look at it (-). for god sake
http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/1328/070920061859350vu.png

[n00b]

The thing is WR, n00b was complaining about how his upload was receiving so many reviews and how we should have used the time to review other uploads instead. I dont think people spent more than 10 seconds on their reviews for his upload though, really, so his statement about how people are able to put in time to review his upload but not other quality ones doesn't make a really strong point as the majority of his reviews werent even serious or longer than two sentences and shouldn't even be considered reviews.

And there are more aspects to a level than to a wallpaper that wasn't even made seriously, so a level would obviously take longer to write up a review for.

Therefore, people are able to take 10 seconds out of their time to look at a picture and post a comment, but playing through a level and reviewing it takes considerably more work no matter how you write your reviews and not everyone is willing to do that, which is why you can't really compare the wallpaper to a quality upload with few reviews in its current state imo.


Ok, before we continue this discussion I would like to make sure you understand that I was also complaining how extremely well done packs get the same ammount of reviews.
It seems that you're only focusing on half of my point imo.

[Strato]

Guys, this is completly aside from the point. It's true, reviews have been going downhill for ages by now. At this point, most of the reviewing is done by people who are inexperienced at being able to tell a bad level from a good level. Therfore, the range of ratings is both innacurate and all over the place, with 1's and 9+'s common place. The point is that it's not about the quality of reviews going down hill, it's more or the less the quality of reviewers.

The only way to remedy this is to either have more of the older people who are more experienced with reviewing to get motivated back into reviewing levels. Also, there can be sort of a guide to how to make a good review in JCS, showing common flaws in levels that should be addressed if they appear in a download and what rating to be given accordingly.

[Chiyu]

Guys, stop being so shallow. This thread isn't about how many people like Faw, or how much you like hotels. This thread is about how reviews suck nowadays.

Maybe J2O should allow unsupported ratings, just to stimulate reviewers.

I agree, there were lots and lots more reviews before.

[DarkSonic]

I agree, there were lots and lots more reviews before.

But then again, those reviews were also pretty short. If you post a review with a few lines now the rating will be removed. It was very normal at the start of J2O.

[Violet CLM]

Also, there can be sort of a guide to how to make a good review in JCS,
o.O

Hey, that wallpaper's a lot better than I thought it was from the reviews. You people really do suck at being descriptive.

[Fawriel]

Hehe, yeah. It's obvious that it's an attempt at making it look crappy by someone who can actually do a lot better.

[n00b]

I think we should keep in mind that most of those people haven't even set foot in the Art fourm, so they probably thought it was an honest effort.

[Blackraptor]

Ryder: Way to support my point and try to insult me at the same time. gj m8 :))

and KRSplat: would you really want people rating your files a 10 or 1 for no reason at all, and not know what you did that people liked or where you went wrong? I think its the review that matters most, not the rating.

[Strato]

*Pointing out my flaws*

Err...Vio is biased towards Mono D<

[KRSplat]

and KRSplat: would you really want people rating your files a 10 or 1 for no reason at all, and not know what you did that people liked or where you went wrong? I think its the review that matters most, not the rating.
No. However I think sometimes people don't review levels because they are afraid that their rating will be removed if they don't write a lengthy review.

...It's just a theory.

[Blackraptor]

No. However I think sometimes people don't review levels because they are afraid that their rating will be removed if they don't write a lengthy review.

...It's just a theory.


I really doubt thats the case. I think most people dont review levels because they're lazy or feel as they have better things to do.

[KRSplat]

But you could write a short review without much effort.

[Camou]

I think we should keep in mind that most of those people haven't even set foot in the Art fourm, so they probably thought it was an honest effort.

Do a wallpaper in your style, it's way better than what you posted. I think you'll get real reviews this way. Also one of the reasons I said it was crap, because I saw some of your stuff on your DA.

@Jamster, go cry to your mom.

[NovaStar]

Nicely worded!
Let's just forget about this and review properly from now on.

[n00b]

Do a wallpaper in your style, it's way better than what you posted. I think you'll get real reviews this way. Also one of the reasons I said it was crap, because I saw some of your stuff on your DA.

You're missing the obvious point on why it was crappily done.
If I did it in my own style it wouldn't be as humorous, and I think you shouldn't be taking it so (-) seriously.


In other news, I'm saddened no one has pointed out my Bjarni Reference obviously tacked onto the Wallpaper.

[Strato]

It's there for people to see. Why should it get pointed out?

[n00b]

The whole wallpaper is there for people to see, why the hell did a good part of the reviews feel the need to point out the rest of it?

[Camou]

You're missing the obvious point on why it was crappily done.
If I did it in my own style it wouldn't be as humorous, and I think you shouldn't be taking it so (-) seriously.


You really think I'm being serious? It's always like this. When something bad is uploaded everyone posts fake reviews. That's why -.-

[n00b]

But these fake reviews are never witty, useful, funny, or helpful.
They're as much as a waste as they claim the level is.

[Sucka_Tube]

But these fake reviews are never witty, useful, funny, or helpful.
They're as much as a waste as they claim the level is.

They won't put their effort into a review for something that was obviously uploaded as a joke. Such a thing is never witty, useful, funny or helpful either. Why have a review better than the the thing you're reviewing when it's clearly a joke?

And I know that it's been said twice, but still-- people are only really encouraged to review the either really good levels or the really terrible ones. There's one in the download section that doesn't even let you move before it's over, and it's not a cinematic either. This is clearly the world's worst level... so why did I review it? In spite of the creator who likes to waste everyone's time with crap like that. Pfft.

[n00b]

I would like to preface this by saying that I refound this thread in a rather roundabout way. Checking the latest reviews as I do after I review a level to find the particularly terrible reviews so I can think smugly to my ego "Hah, look at this. If they attempted to write an essay about the importance of Washington on the Potomac, they would surely not get the scholorship" I found a review for my terrible wallpaper that sparked this discussion. Granted this discussion is even more relevant today since even with quick reviews allowing you to write whatever the hell you want and then slapping a number on it (one quick review cited merely that the level in question had "a lot of stuff") many levels still aren't being reviewed by more than three people. How the hell Akutube found my upload is beyond me, much less where he found the need to review it. Needless to say it led me back to this thread where I found I missed out on a post somehow. Granted it was five days later and I was probably burnt out. However I felt it was necessary to start up a debate, or perhaps correction-fest, over a year later with a guy who probably doesn't give a damn now. Helping me in this was Odin and Novastar who gave me the peer pressure to go through with this notion.

Such a thing is never witty, useful, funny or helpful either.

WRONG, DUNKHEAD (Sucka wouldn't make much sense, thats his name). Such a thing is funny and witty as a good number of reviews for my crappy uploads have said so. Such a thing is also useful since it sparked this discussion which led to a few people actually reviewing actual levels and also community spirit as we all bashed on Faw and then collectively loved him again. Finally, my JCS Beginner User's guide is helpful since it pretty much summed up everything NOT to do in your level in visual form (I.E. linear designs in the strictest sense of the word, rows of enemies, harmful objects everywhere for "difficulty", every boss ever in one room), however I guess not enough people actually used it since I still see some of those bad level cliches appearing every now and again.

[EvilMike]

Dear n00b, you dowloaded one of my level packs 9000 times. J2O downloaders may be shallow, but at least they are not completely insane.

[n00b]

Dear Evilmike, I have shunned your download pages for a few months now. Now is not the time to complain over something I may or may not have done back in March.

[EvilMike]

i havent even uploaded anything for a few months now

[n00b]

Precisely why I've been shunning them.