What would you like to see?

[FireSworD]

This is a topic about level making. More focused on what the current audience of what the typical jj2er wants in levels. Please be specific I don't want replies like "good eyecandy" or "nice flow". This is what you really want to see.

I am also personally interested in what people here want to see in battle levels. specifically.

[Blackraptor]

Atmosphere. Using eyecandy, lightning techniques and possibly music to set a strong mood for the level and prevent it from getting boring. Combine that with a strategic, yet somewhat open and fast paced layout so games will require strategy but not go into deadlocks or long periods of nothingness. Maybe a few gimmicks to impress some people (although don't focus overly on them, and don't try to show them off).

Possibly make use of a variety of different events that might seem otherwise useless, and distribute all that along the level evenly to prevent certain areas from looking like they were just quickly tacked on.

Basically, a level that feels and looks great and uses interesting tricks, yet doesn't depend on that entirely and has a strong layout and ensure it is not forgotten.

That's pretty much a general view I guess. Personally, a level that uses events for eyecandy purposes (pinball bumpers, or chesire cats like in the Uninspired Psych Level) always make the levels seem more alive for me if they are done properly (maybe even try using roll rocks too, if they work? ;\). I like dark atmospheres, so that appeals greately to me (as does nice lighting use), although I'm sure that doesn't go for everyone. Always try to put things in open spaces, whether it be eyecandy or interesting pickup patterns, anything that prevents the area looking like the author got lazy, I tend to notice that I guess.

I don't know if that helped or not but ;D


edit: for things you should avoid I guess i would mention lightning. I hate constant flashes (ESPECIALLY if they're in the foreground. They just cause headaches) and they tend to make me want to turn low detail on, no matter how good the eyecandy is otherwise. If they're in the backround and there's lots of bg layer eyecandy to cover them up mostly, I guess it's alright. But definately not in the foreground, ugh.

[minmay]

<s>Good eyecandy</s>.

...unfortunately, that's what I really want to see D=

[DarkSonic]

A level with great eye candy is nice, but not everything a level should have. I would like to see an open level with a layout that makes it possible to not just run around in, but with some obstacles. In most Battle/CTF levels the lower part of the level is just a straight line.

Also, try to be creative with pickup placement. It's a bit hard to explain. But try to make shapes of ammo that look creative and don't look so old like this:

***
***

or

**
**

Try something like this:

** * *
* * *

In Battle levels, some food is also nice. It doesn't fit every tileset, but it's really fun in a Battle level.

Things you shouldn't put in:

-confusing eye candy

-very dark lighting(you can hardly see anything and that's no fun)

-too little ammo. It's fun if everyone has ammo, and not just a bit. You can put a few groups with much ammo, or you can put many groups with little ammo. So you shouldn't put too little ammo in.

-too many Power-Ups. I know they're fun, but putting them too close to each other in a small level is not fun. Myself I think 3 or 4 Power-Ups in a level is enough, really. I've seen small levels with 7/8 Power-Ups and that's just too much.

That's pretty much all I can think of so far.

[Quickz]

First, a level should be original, it should not be like other levels. Secret passages, warps, one ways etc. are really important to make the level interesting. A level shouldn't be confusing at all. In some levels the foreground is so confusing etc. Don't place ammo or food at places players can't reach. Use 'signs' to let people know where you can go through the wall etc.

Well, the ammo should fit the level (depends on tileset and layout) and there should be enough/shouldn't be too much ammo in the level. About the PU's, they are really important. I think they should be placed in corners of the levels, so people should move through the whole level. I agree with DarkSonic about the shape of ammo, be a bit creative.

About the flow, I think there should be always enough free space in levels. Some levels are really narrow at some places, I don't like it and never will, try to keep some open space, like three or four tiles, to let players move easier through the level.

I don't have much time now, but I will post something later or edit this one ;-) ...

[blurredd]

It's probably best if a level is fairly easy to learn, though it can still have a few secrets for players to find. This helps a lot with first impressions, which can mean a lot. All levels should have a good balance between open and relatively narrow spaces--an important element of atmosphere. I often go for some natural look when it comes to layout and eye candy, such as dirt ground only at the bottom of the level with structures on top. It's limiting, but I think it adds to the atmosphere. I also try to make different sections of a level look "unique" to aid in learning the layout, but I admit I don't always do a great job of this.

I still don't expect much from battle levels. I don't think a good gimmick is needed for them to be enjoyable, as opposed to CTF where there are many more quality levels. If it has decent eye candy and a good, balanced layout, I probably like the level.

[Strato]

All foreground and background layers should be used to compliment the level with eyecandy. And I don't mean like foreground lightning or rain. I mean things like if the tileset has trees, you can create a forest with the background layer and layer 4. Foreground layers can be used to make stuff actually happen in the dirt. I mean, dirt in tilesets is just firing away wasted eye candy space. You can add some extremely complicated and detailed platforms, ledges, et cetera in any area where you can see a lot of dirt tiles. This is incredibly important for tilesets which lack untextured dirt like Islands in the Sapphire Sea or Agama's Swamps.

Also, use every tile in the tileset you can. If you have multiple ground types, then there should be multiple grounds in you level. If the tileset is available with it, why not use it?

Finally, biggest thing that annoys me. If you have a textured background:
1) Don't fade to black
2) Don't use layer 5
3) Make it auto-scroll
4) Try and cover up the weird inverted clouds at the bottom

The point is, a creator needs to be able to weild everything JCS offers to his advantage. As far as level design itself goes, there is no real way to define what makes a good level good. But I try to picture a few things when I work on a level. I picture a bell curve of flow, with one end being rough flow, and the other being smooth. Rough flow is where you bump into walls all the time, and if you jump you hit things, and a sux pile. Smooth is where the level does everything for you and practically eliminates player control. Neither are good, for obvious reasons. If it's rough, people will get frustrated because they can't move. If it's smooth, people will get annoyed when they try to go one way, but the level makes them go the other way. Anyway, the ideal is a situation where the level dosen't force the player to go anywhere, and they can choose to backtrack and won't have to fight with springs. There still should be some rough to navigate places, especially ones which lead to important items like carrots.

Also, final thing that comes to mind is player choice. Levels are roughly divided into "Passages" and "Rooms", although sometimes it's utterly unnoticeable. Every room should present at the very least, a choice of 2 directions to go. The passages are how you get to the next room to make your next choice. This sounds extremely limiting and it might feel as though it can only produce cramped levels with hallways and it'll suck. But basically all jj2 levels, or at least good ones, operate with this sense of passages and rooms.

[MSB3000]

A giant-thing.

[DoubleGJ]

I'd really like to see someone attemping to make a scary level or even levelpack. It's really difficult to do in JJ2, but I believe it's not impossible. Generally when I say that I think of Metroid Fusion, which really gave me a thrill on the first time I played it. Dark atmosphere, creepy music, narrow corridors... And shock attacks. If someone could manage to pull that off, that would be no doubt the most original JJ2 singleplayer submission.

[Fawriel]

Hmm.. I've never played battle levels online, but some general rules that apply to just about anything... will probably apply to battle levels as well.

The most important thing I can think of is contrast. You want your battle levels to be easily navigatable; online games are obviously quite hectic. To be able to easily navigate through a level without first having to look where you can go in the first place, it helps if the 4th layer is easily discerned from the background.
Basically, if the ground is white and the background a black horizon with stars, any half-skilled player should be able to run quickly through it while being able to concentrate on other players instead of the surrounding area.

[n00b]

Screw battle levels, what I want to see is a good single player level(I've given up on hopes for a pack) released on J2O that isn't TSF-only.
Seriously that's all. I'll start giving out specific ideas that I'd like to see the second that happens.

[NovaStar]

You can convert TSF levels to 1.23 levels. Go look in Articles, it's somewhere there.