What would you like to see in a brand new JJ2 level editor?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

In case I am not banned from this thread:

1.I think there should be an option to opposite click on an event, and be able to select things such as:
"Remove all *event*."
"Remove all adjacent *event*."
"Remove all *event* within [INPUT] tiles."
"Remove event."

2.Go to top/go to bottom of tileset buttons.

3.Better zoom selection (perhaps a different mode of zooming, such as a zoom scroll bar.)

[Violet CLM]

1.I think there should be an option to opposite click on an event, and be able to select things such as:
"Remove all *event*."
This one's easily done in the Search and Replace Events window, though admittedly that takes a bit longer to get to.
2.Go to top/go to bottom of tileset buttons.
Home/End?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Wow? Really? I actually didn't know that you could use those buttons...

Well now don't I look silly.

No comment on the zoom idea?

[Violet CLM]

I'm not here to give opinions, I'm just here to be helpful and show people how to do what they want to do with JCS. ^.^!
(Though, if you really want to know, I'm totally fine with the zoom the way it is. If it was more variable I might get afraid of it.)

[Xobim]

Show event sprites in paralax view, or maybe just the swinging spike bolls and platforms...

[Jerrythabest]

Or just the event as it shows up in the layer view too

[Puffie40]

Use an arrow to indicate the direction of suckertubes. Maybe also indicate the speed as well?

[Jerrythabest]

Yeah, same with belts and wind please. Would be very useful.

[Xobim]

Or just the event as it shows up in the layer view too

Show event sprites in paralax view,
Other things I'd suggest would be a "open file" button for the music in the level properties menu.

[cooba]

"Open" should be used for next level and secret level too :|

[Jerrythabest]

(My quote + your quote)

I said as it shows up in the layer view not as it shows up in the game

That's something completely different and will most probably be far more faster. Also, it will enable you to view events in the parallax view which don't have sprites.

[Puffie40]

or maybe just the swinging spike bolls and platforms...

Sticking a line out of the event to the length of the platform would be the easiest.

Personally, I don't like the Parralax view in general.

[Jerrythabest]

I think you can't miss it if you are working with multiple layers- which you should.

[Xobim]

I said as it shows up in the layer view not as it shows up in the game

That's something completely different and will most probably be far more faster. Also, it will enable you to view events in the parallax view which don't have sprites. But just a spikeboll event is just a tile. Sure that's handy and avery fast, but if you want to see how far the boll reaches and how it swings you would need to play the level over and over.

[Jerrythabest]

You have a point... Maybe it's indeed better to show sprites or a circle around the event for that kind of events

[Xobim]

Well, it takes up more memory an processing power. It could cause slowdowns when the Paralax view is opened...

[cooba]

Or just scratch the idea of sprites in the parallax view window. Whatever happened to testing your level ingame?

[n0]

...we could just have the game run in some sort of debug mode in the place where the parallax view window was. Some sort of debug mode that lets you change things in real time.

[cooba]

Yeah, have fun coding that.

[Jerrythabest]

That would take up far more resources...

[Dermo]

any progress? (you should make this opensource)

[cooba]

(you should make this opensource)then it will never get done

[ShadeJackrabbit]

then it will never get done
MMmm... it's debatable. On one hand, things could get out of control. On the other, anybody who can help will then be able to.

[Neobeo]

For various reasons, showing sprites (or even circles with event-specific sizes) is not feasible at all. Also, this project is open source, which is why it will never get done.

[Violet CLM]

There are less than 256 events, many of which don't even <i>have</i> sprites. Though trying to load all those sprites from anims.j2a might not make the most sense, it shouldn't be impossible to make some separate collection of graphics with one-frame previews of all the sprited events, like unanimated gems, enemies, etc.

[PyRRamid]

I don't know whether it's mentioned, but it would be nice if a level can be run without saving the actual map.

[Valco]

I'd LOVE to see the following WORKING events in the list:

Tweedle
Blue Ghost
Slide (Whatever it does)
Butterfly (Enemy)
Fire (Whatever it does)
Lava (Whatever it does)
Sprincord (Whatever it does)
Auto Fire (Whatever it does)
Max Weapon (Whatever it does)
TNT powerup
Pepper Spray Powerup
Electro Blaster Powerup

[Birdie]

...What?

[Hitch]

I'd LOVE to see the following WORKING events in the list:

Tweedle
Blue Ghost
Slide (Whatever it does)
Butterfly (Enemy)
Fire (Whatever it does)
Lava (Whatever it does)
Sprincord (Whatever it does)
Auto Fire (Whatever it does)
Max Weapon (Whatever it does)
TNT powerup
Pepper Spray Powerup
Electro Blaster Powerup

Are you new? There is a TNT, Pepper, and Electro power up ;o Unless you want them to have +2 damage? Is that what you want? And, your not very specific on lists 3, 5-9, "Whatever it does," ROFL.

[Jerrythabest]

TweedleI'd love to see it working too, but it's just not completed. This is not a JCS problem.
Blue Ghost Perfectly working for me.
Slide (Whatever it does)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
Butterfly (Enemy)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
Fire (Whatever it does)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
Lava (Whatever it does)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
Sprincord (Whatever it does)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
Auto Fire (Whatever it does)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
Max Weapon (Whatever it does)Unfinished event. See Tweedle.
TNT powerupUnfinished event. See Tweedle.
Pepper Spray PowerupWorks, though it has no other effect than changing the Pepper Spray's colour.
Electro Blaster PowerupWorks, though it has no other effect than changing the Electro Blaster's colour.

[Grytolle]

The electro blaster shoots farther, I think

[Dermo]

So what's the progress report?

[Puffie40]

For various reasons, showing sprites (or even circles with event-specific sizes) is not feasible at all.

Care to elaborate?

[FQuist]

I'd assume that's possible if you make make a registry of standard event sizes. it'd be hardcoded. That wouldn't be too flexible, but who cares?

[cooba]

he never said that he will make a new JCSJazz Creation Station Plus (JCS+) - 10%<!-- -->

[Xobim]

Sorry, I'm quite a moron...

[Neobeo]

Actually, you're right. I never said that I will make a new JCS. It's only in my signature to prevent a space-time paradox.

[Olsen]

It's only in my signature to prevent a space-time paradox.

Does that mean we're screwed?

Timewise, I mean.

[n00b]

Does that mean we're screwed?

Timewise, I mean.

Only if the future turns out to be a wonderful place because of JCS+, because then we have a Meet The Robinsons-esque problem.

[Dermo]

Actually, you're right. I never said that I will make a new JCS. It's only in my signature to prevent a space-time paradox.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/lol.jpg

[Valco]

How would people read 511 character long text strings if they were to vanish?
Maybe only a bit more than the amount given?

[Neobeo]

How would people read 511 character long text strings if they were to vanish?
Maybe only a bit more than the amount given?

Actually, depending on conditions like age, gender and height, the limit can be way more than 511, probably around 10k or so, but I digress.

For me, I'd find a limitless text string useful in that I could properly colour my text. Usually you would need 7 pipes between characters, thus effectively reducing the string size from 128 to 16. With a larger size, this would no longer be a problem. Maybe such long strings could also be used to draw some sort of ASCII art.

[Cpp]

I used to draw ASCII art a while back in one of my levels. I was kind of testing the idea and many people were like "Wow, how do you do that?!". With added colors and increased size there are limitless possibilities.

[Stijn]

A text preview option might as well be a nice idea then. I remember having to fiddle around quite a bit to get everything centered correctly, as I think spaces take less space than the characters themselves (is the JJ2 font actually monospaced, except for the space?).

[FreeFull]

I want it to have a button that would show a grid with default setting 4x1 and a tile cache viewer ( http://www.jazz2online.com/jcsref/node.php?node=79&mode=id ) if it isn't there already (Neobeo's Firetruck)

[Neobeo]

Indeed, one of the major features I'm working on is regarding the selection of which tile caches to link with each other.

[Dermo]

Suggestion: In each event, make another box called

"Number of times to generate (0 for infinate)" or something like that so you can make something regenerate like 5 times and then it won't regenerate again.

[Jerrythabest]

That's a JJ2 feature, not a level creator one, and thus unpossible.

[Xobim]

Why can't we just implement a simple (possibly WYSIWYG) text formatter with buttons and stuff?

[Neobeo]

Why can't we just implement a simple (possibly WYSIWYG) text formatter with buttons and stuff?

That's actually a good idea.

[Jerrythabest]

Yeah! :D Nice one!

[Xobim]

Uhm, thanks? :)

[HorvatM]

I don't really think the community needs a new (read: better) level editor.
But some new features such as LEV support, ability to browse files, better copy and paste, longer text strings and stuff, are pretty cool and sound really useful.
But is there any other user who is worried about backward compatibility and possibly screwing up the level files and/or JJ2?!

Some other features that would be useful for me: (and possibly someone else)
Ability to compile tilesets from image formats other than BMP, PCX, ANM and LBM. Ability to have more than 16 text strings. Ability to preview the colors/new lines in the level title or text strings (WYSIWYG editing) Friendlier tileset organiser, tileset compiler, animation properties dialogs. Read JJ1 level files (oh wait, we have JCS94 for this, but it's just not user friendly) Ability to extract tileset images from JJ1 tilesets It would be really cool if the editor would have been ported to the Macintosh platform, to enable Mac users to create their own levels without using Micro$oft Virtual PC and therefore buying Windows.


That's all for now.

But seriously, think twice about compatibility before implementing any new features!

Oh, and could somebody help me on compiling my Deckstar conversion? (the one and only) I really need help: http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?p=409352&posted=1#post409352

[cooba]

I don't see how could one "screw up" old levels with the new editor :confused:

Also it would be really cool if JJ1 editing was kept out of this.

[Torkell]

It may be that the new editor can create levels which are uneditable by/crash the current JCS.

[Neobeo]

Having more than 16 text strings would already make it incompatible.

[FreeFull]

Actually Neobeo's Firetruck has more than 16 strings. If you save it in JCS you will lose all of them except for the first 16.

[Dermo]

Yeah but hex editing a j2l file is a complete waste of time. It'd be easier if you just incorporated this in the new JCS.

[Neobeo]

I'm just saying that compatibility with JCS is not a top priority because of necessary upgrades like that.

[Torkell]

In that case, a possible feature would be to be able to save files in 'compatability mode' (stripping out everything which JCS can't handle).

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Anyone who actually makes levels is going to want it anyways. It's like if you had a perfect 1.25 version. It just wouldn't make sense to not get it.

[Jerrythabest]

Saving in compatibility mode sounds fine, though I'd say you should also edit levels in compatibility mode, which means you can't add anything JCS doesn't support. That's better than finding out things can't be saved JCS-compatible after you finished making your level.

[Xobim]

I wonder what kind of other functions of the new JCS would make levels incompatible. Most of these ideas are meant to change the look and feel of the editor, not the level.

[Jerrythabest]

Yeah, that's true... that's why a compatibility mode would be useful.

[Neobeo]

Actually, I designed this level editor with the intention to completely deprecate JCS.

[HorvatM]

No, just a compatibility mode would be cool, like when saving as a standard J2L file to display a dialog "Saving in compatibility will lose the following:", then display the list of the things that will be lost, "Continue?".

Having more than 16 text strings would already make it incompatible.
If so, then why can Neobeo's Firetruck load in JJ2 without any problems... yeah right, "It's Neobeo's creativity burst!". Argh.

I think JCS+ should be more like a replacement for the standard JCS. Think about the newbies who only can use JCS to make their levels. And what about those with a dial-up connection? If I had a connection like this, I wouldn't download JCS+ as long as it's not required.

And give it a new name. JCS+ just hides the old JCS under the carpet. JCS should be a separate thing, JCS94/J1CS should be a separate thing, and so should be JCS+. Imagine a world full of JCS's. There would be confusion, especially for the newbies.

You know I'm talking about newbies so much? They're important. They have to continue the traditions of JJ2 (hating battle one, celebrating Anniversary Bash, and so on) in order to preserve it.

That's my opinion, hope you like it. :D

Let's all hope Epic will never release the JJ2 source code. If they would, people would replace JJ2 with Jazz Super Rocket Turbo Thing Whatever Jackrabbit.
The same goes to patches, mods and utilities. There shouldn't be any. JJ2 has got to stay like JJ2. Period. If we love the game so much, then why do we have to change it? It's like drugs; people know it's bad for them, but still take 'em.

[Birdie]

If you wanted feedback on your oppinion, I dislike it. :<!----)
Many of these utilities just make it easier for everyone who plays, they're also the reason I started programming. We won't ever have a billion JCS's like you're suggesting, It's not very high priority to make many JCS's, nor are there people willing to program them.
J2nsm has the source code, also your custom title also makes this posic ironic.

[Grytolle]

His custom title is what made his post awesome.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Hold on, how big's this program gonna be?

[Dermo]

8000000000000tb

actually judging by the size of JCS and considering it's going to have a few small features, a couple of megs would be my guess

[FreeFull]

It depends on how much code Neobeo needs to write.

[Grytolle]

I very much doubt that Neobeo's been making lots of planning (meaning that question probably won't be answered)

[ShadeJackrabbit]

A couple of megs...

Assuming you mean 2 when you say "a couple," that means it would take... half a minute to download on a 56k modem? Or about 2 minutes and 40 seconds on a 12k modem?

That about right?

[Dermo]

It'd take a little bit longer. You also have to throw j2o's download speed into account. Not to mention anybody using anything below a 28k dial up modem is sad. Actually anybody using below 56k is probably living on the stone age as well. I mean the original JCS combined with the ini is floppy disk size so JCS+ can't really be all that big.

[Torkell]

It'd take a little bit longer. You also have to throw j2o's download speed into account. Not to mention anybody using anything below a 28k dial up modem is sad. Actually anybody using below 56k is probably living on the stone age as well. I mean the original JCS combined with the ini is floppy disk size so JCS+ can't really be all that big.

People still use dialup. Case in point - two years ago, my primary internet connection was 48.8kb/s dialup, because that's all there was in the flats on-campus. Even now, not everyone can get or wants to get ADSL.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Got a friend on 56k...

[FreeFull]

I think loads of people in Poland use 56k

[Dermo]

yeah but anybody below 56k is just in the stone age.

[Jerrythabest]

Most people with such slow connections would probably never play JJ2 online. There is already a lot of lag with 1024k :/

[Violet CLM]

I join servers with 56K because, no matter how many patches or workarounds I try, that's the only way I can join a server without timing out after thirty seconds. *shrugs* It happens.
(Although I suspect this is all a bit off-topic.)

[ShadeJackrabbit]

1024k
What are you running, T1?

[Stijn]

Here in the Netherlands at least speeds of up to 8 MBit per second are quite common, the average lying around 2 MBit per second I think.

[cooba]

I think loads of people in Poland use 56kI join servers with 56K because, no matter how many patches or workarounds I try, that's the only way I can join a server without timing out after thirty seconds. *shrugs* It happens.
(Although I suspect this is all a bit off-topic.)What are you running, T1?Here in the Netherlands at least speeds of up to 8 MBit per second are quite common, the average lying around 2 MBit per second I think.Those are really amazing ideas for a JCS+, thanks guys :)

[Torkell]

I've currently got a 20Mb/s cable connection, thanks to Virgin Media doubling all their speeds. Note that this connection only has 768kb/s upload, and is contended.

Most of the UK can get ADSL at 5Mb/s or so. Some places have ADSL2+, which can run at 24Mb/s if you're close enough to the exchange. Again, the upload on those is generally sub-1Mb/s, and there's usually a contention ratio of 50:1.

The main advantage of connections like SDSL and T1 is that the upload is faster, and there is no contention.

Edit: whoops, sorry about the thread drift. Might be an idea to split this discussion off into a separate thread.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Edit: whoops, sorry about the thread drift. Might be an idea to split this discussion off into a separate thread.
Agreed.

[Xobim]

A separate thread just to chitchat about connection speeds? Sounds quite pointless...

[Jerrythabest]

JCS could use a packager to put one levelpack into a zip file automatically.

Features:
-Should ask you if you want to include all tilesets, only custom tilesets or no tilesets;
-Should ask you if you want to include all music files, only custom music files or no music files;
-Should ask if it needs to check for level connections both forward and backward, only forward, only backward or not.
-If you select a tileset instead of a level, it should ask you if you want to select one or more files related to this tileset, like palette versions, preview levels and their music files.

[Grytolle]

--asking

[Neobeo]

What Gry said. You should have to hex edit the JCS+.exe in order to make changes to those settings.

[Valco]

Last two pages weren't suggestions on
What you want to see in a new JJ2 level editor.

Lets get back on track.
What about the ability to 'Layer warp'. You go to warp, you end up in layer 1/2/3/5/6/7/8 and go back in the warp to another layer.

Would be very interesting in races! Not sure about possibility limits affecting the idea though.

[ThunderPX]

Last two pages weren't suggestions on
What you want to see in a new JJ2 level editor.

Lets get back on track.
What about the ability to 'Layer warp'. You go to warp, you end up in layer 1/2/3/5/6/7/8 and go back in the warp to another layer.

Would be very interesting in races! Not sure about possibility limits affecting the idea though.

We got back on topic four posts ago. Stop dragging it up.

As for your feature, that's not possible because it's not a JCS thing, it's a JJ2 thing.

[Jerrythabest]

What Gry said. You should have to hex edit the JCS+.exe in order to make changes to those settings.

That's sucky. Just put a dropdown, radio button or checkbox (whichever fits best) in the packager window... wasn't this project meant to add more features? Then this post actually made even less sense than Gry's post.:p

[Xobim]

Isn't it possible to implement code form an open-source zip program? Maybe use Evilmikes project-file idea?

[Dermo]

Isn't it possible to implement code form an open-source zip program? Maybe use Evilmikes project-file idea?

I think you meant to say Isn't it possible to implement code from* an open-source zip program? Maybe use Evimikes project-file idea?

And I still have no idea what you're talking about...

[Birdie]

I didn't even notice the misspelling, and what he said makes perfect sense. Although I would think people can zip things themselfs. ;<!---->)

[Dermo]

(-)(-)(-)??? I am missing something out of that post...

EDIT: birdie explained it to me on MSN. Aren't there already a couple of opensource file compressors? And what's wrong with Win-rar?

[Odin]

These would be cool things:


Pallete changing on the fly - Kinda like the smoke ring effect in 8-bit mode, but done by events.
Basic scripting ability - A special "script" window in JCS along with a special "script" event that would allow for neat stuff.
Tile rotating/flipping - Ability to flip tiles vertical as well as horizontal, as well as a "rotate" function.
Metatiles - Tiles that change properties based on events in conjunction with scripting.
More advanced sky support - Sky that clips through tiles into the foreground, ability to turn off bottom plane, different textures for each plane, more than two planes, etc.
The Usual Requests - More than 1024/4096 tiles, more layers, etc.

[Stijn]

All of those suggestions are way out of the scope of a new JCS as they require changing the way JJ2 itself works. If you'd actually have read the thread you'd also have seen that such requests have been made countless times already and have been shot down equally often :H

[FreeFull]

(-)(-)(-)??? I am missing something out of that post...

EDIT: birdie explained it to me on MSN. Aren't there already a couple of opensource file compressors? And what's wrong with Win-rar?

Drmoo, they want to integrate a zip compressor. It isn't possible with Winrar because it is not opensource and can't be integrated without the source. And yes, they will probably use code from one of the opensource file compressors.

[Odin]

All of those suggestions are way out of the scope of a new JCS as they require changing the way JJ2 itself works. If you'd actually have read the thread you'd also have seen that such requests have been made countless times already and have been shot down equally often :H


You actually think I believe these things would happen?

Not like anything in this thread is more than wishful thinking. :H

(Oh, sorry, did I steal your "original" idea of using :H as a tack-on smiley to denote that you think you won the arguement? My bad.)

[cooba]

did I steal your "original" idea of using :H as a tack-on smiley to denote that you think you won the arguement?this is some wishful thinking indeed :H

[Stijn]

Oh, sorry, did I steal your "original" idea of using :H as a tack-on smiley to denote that you think you won the arguement? My bad.
No :H

[FreeFull]

Hmm, will the JCS+ have linux binary? All you would have to do is to recompile with winelib.

[Stijn]

I don't think linux support for a level editor for a Windows game would be high on the priority list :rolleyes:

[FreeFull]

It will be fine for me as long as it will run in WINE. (I will check that, or someone else)

[Marijn]

or make it open source :D

[FreeFull]

You know opensource != runs on that or that platform.

[Dermo]

I think that you should be able to put an animation in between two other animations but without the other two animations re referencing themselves.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Tiles.jpg

[Valco]

Huh? What was that you said? :confused:

[Dermo]

it's tough to explain. But when you have two animating blocks and you want to put another animating thingy between the two thingies you already have the then animating thingies in the level change their animations to the thingy you put between the other two thingies. I want that fixed.

[Valco]

Nope, I still don't get it.

But you can stop trying to explain. I probably never will.

[Torkell]

I think Drmoo wants to be able to change the order animations are listed in, without affecting the usage in the level.

[Violet CLM]

When you add a new animation, it is placed at the bottom of the animations list. The only way to place an animation in slot, say, 2, is to either edit animation 2 to be the new one and place the old animation 2 at the end of the list, or do a lot of cloning. Either way, the level will be full of instances of the wrong animations. Drmoo (and I agree with him on this strongly) would like to be able to insert a new animation between two existing animations, rather than at the end of the list.

[Valco]

Now I Get It!!! :)

[Neobeo]

Excellent rephrasing, UR. This is definitely a must-have feature.

[HorvatM]

From the Jazz2 License Agreement:

YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO REVERSE ENGINEER, DECOMPILE OR DISASSEMBLE THE
SOFTWARE IN ANY WAY. Any copying of the SOFTWARE and related documentation not specifically allowed in this Agreement is a violation of this Agreement.


Hmmm. Neobeo's Interests on JCF say "Disassembling Jazz2". And JSD, JCS+, and the Tileset Extractor all point it out. Speaking of Tileset Extractor, it crashed my Opera session when I tried to download it. Now I have to go all over again. I know Tileset Extractor is not to be blamed for it, but still.

IT'S ILLEGAL!!! You may say "Epic doesn't care about it anyway" but until they release the source (which I hope they won't) your statements will be all wrong.

And JCS+ is such an uncreative name. JSD was okay, but that's it. Stop ripping off JCS.

I wonder how JCS+ will perform on older and/or low-end machines. But you probably don't care anyway.

[Ricerind]

Oh how I miss the freedom to flame.

[n00b]

Point one: JSD is also against the License Agreement. It's been out for a while now. Want to know how much Epic cared? Their lawyers nearly sued somebody over a Marcus Pheonix doll intended to be a present for a family member hooked on Gears (or Gear'd, maybe a Gearhead. haha I'm so clever). I'm going to repeat that because it sounds vaguely important: They nearly SUED someone over a FAN MADE TOY that was NEVER GOING TO BE SOLD. They did DIDDLY-SQUAT (read: nothing) about JSD. JCS+ is not going to be an issue. Period. Also, what the heck do you mean by "You may say "Epic doesn't care about it anyway" but until they release the source (which I hope they won't) your statements will be all wrong." We're wrong that Epic doesn't care but all of sudden we're right when they do the one thing fans have been clamoring for? CliffyB has even said himself that Jazz fans care more about the source code than a Jazz 3. Finally, whats with the "I hope they don't"? It's one thing to be the devil's advocate, it's another thing entirely to be completely negative to rile people up which is what it seems like you are doing with your insanely inadequate reasoning, poor arguments, and contradicting statements.

On the name, let me ask you if this conversation makes the slightest bit of sense: "Hey guys I just developed a refined and more functional version of the JCS that is going to be used by people who suck my teat metaphorically and those interested in the new features" "Oh, what will you call it?" "Well considering the audience I mentioned consists of near everyone, I'll just throw away the name everyone has been using for nearly the past decade."

[Jerrythabest]

JCS+ it is then ;)

But it could use some power.. like

JCS+: A new generation

or

JCS+ - Advanced world creation software

[n00b]

I like the second one because it reads as "JCS Plus Minus" at a first glance.

[FreeFull]

The second one, but with the '-' gone and with level instead of world

[Birdie]

IT'S ILLEGAL!!! You may say "Epic doesn't care about it anyway" but until they release the source (which I hope they won't) your statements will be all wrong.
Redjazz says this because he is very anti-hack, which is quite hippocritical of him, since he uses many of these tools himself, like carrotade, controler, and some crap for coloring his fur/name.

[Jerrythabest]

The second one, but with the '-' gone and with level instead of world

it's the word 'world' that gives that name its power.

[Stijn]

I propose "Advanced universe creation software" then.

[Ricerind]

I propose just JCS+

Simple is beautiful :p

[HorvatM]

I never used Carrotade.

[Ricerind]

The simple reason why we are willing to violate the Epic agreement is simply because we don't care and neither does Epic.

[cooba]

I never used Carrotade.<img src="http://i9.tinypic.com/63bsep3.jpg" />

[FreeFull]

Carrotade doesn't work with WINE :(

[Jerrythabest]

What's WINE?
@coob: yer pict doesn't work.

[Ricerind]

Be enlightened. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29)

[tonius11]

It should be funny if you can edit JJ1 and Battery Check levels too :P

[Jerrythabest]

And with BC levels, 1.10o levels. And add 1.00g/h and 1.20 too, then. Completeness is Cool.

[Ricerind]

Jerry, you forgot the kitchen sink.

[Jerrythabest]

Wasn't that mentioned on page 3 already?

[Dermo]

I heard from an unreliable source that neo quit. Is this so?

[Ricerind]

Well, the world is still spinning, so apparently not.

[Dermo]

I think it might be.

[Jerrythabest]

If he quit the community will die immediately ;p

[HorvatM]

If he quit the community will die immediately ;p


Well, the world is still spinning, so apparently not.


Is Neobeo your god or what?

[FreeFull]

He maintains one of the two listservers.

[cooba]

Neobeo has done a lot of great work for the game, so in my opinion he does deserve respect from everyone, even if some people here went overboard *cough*

I don't know about you redjazz, but I'm really happy with how has the community progressed with Neobeo's aid.^{<a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4501">[1]</a> <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4041">[2]</a> <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=4087">[3]</a> <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=15059">[4]</a> <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=15799">[5]</a> <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=392922&postcount=141">[6]</a>}He maintains one of the two listservers.Wha?

[HorvatM]

I never said Neobeo was a bad person as everyone has their strong and weak points.

But I think that no Jazzer should accept copies. Who needs anything else when you've got JJ2 and JCS from Epic and they work great? I mean, the community has survived from 1998 to Neobeo's arrival with Epic tools.

[cooba]

If JJ2 and JCS worked great, there would be no need for Carrotade/a sprite editor/a tileset extractor/a dedicated server utility. The only "tool" we got from Epic was JCS, and this topic shows that it's a far from perfect tool.

(This discussion warrants its own topic rather than leeching off this one)

[HorvatM]

The only "tool" we got from Epic was JCS, and this topic shows that it's a far from perfect tool.


If it wasn't then a replacement would be created years ago!

[NovaStar]

But it wasn't, therefore the community took it into our own hands to make a 'new version'! Makes perfect sense, no?

[n00b]

If it wasn't then a replacement would be created years ago!

Hahahahahahahahahahaha <--- My reaction to this post, literally.

[Marijn]

-Good help files
-Better Episode handler !

[Ricerind]

Redjazz, we didn't know how until recently (I still don't :p).

[FreeFull]

If it wasn't then a replacement would be created years ago!

That what Phoenix said, and Epic didn't have time or money to make an replacement.

[Jerrythabest]

Nor interest.

[JangoCF]

An event copy-ing thing, something that can copy events with b like tiles, but without them havingto be on tiles.So, copy-ing events with b on a regular, empty, tile...

[Raven aka StL]

Just hold shift when placing 'empty' tiles with events that you've copied with "b".

[cooba]

Find an event you would like to copy. Move the mouse over it. Press Ctrl+E.
Find the area in JCS where you would like to paste the event, and press or hold Shift+E.
Iam Canadian: To copy and paste events, hover over it, press b twice, go to where you want it and hold shift and click ;)

You can do that with multiple events, and tiles.hold shiftJust hold shift when placing 'empty' tiles with events that you've copied with "b".<!>

[JangoCF]

-_-....

I feel quite stupid now...
...
...

...

Stupid mood is over!
Ok, I should have searched, but I didn`t really feel like searching 200 posts for if this was answered allready...

[Violet CLM]

<b>Shift+E:</b>
Put the active event to the tile under the cursor. This key also associates an event with the tile under the cursor, but it doesn't use the event selection dialog, it uses the active event instead. You can set the active event using the E or Control+E keys.

<b>Ctrl+E:</b>
Grab event under mouse cursor and make it the active event. First position the mouse over a tile with an event on it and press Control+E to grab that event as the active event. You can then use Shift+E to copy this event to other tiles.
or...

SHIFT+E
This pastes the event that is currently active on the tile your mouse pointer is at. The active event is the last event you selected. For example, if you place a "fast fire" event on a tile the "fast fire" event is the active event until you select another event.
How to use?
Press SHIFT+E while your mouse pointer is at the tile you want to place an event on. You can click on the tile to make sure you selected the right one, but that's not needed.

CTRL+E
This makes the current active event the event that's currently under your cursor. It works like the "grab event" option you can choose from the drop-down menu that drops down when you right-click in the level window.
How to use?
Place your cursor on a tile with the event you want to choose on it. Then press CTRL+E. The event that was under your cursor is now set as the active event.

[Dermo]

shame. Neo, why did you have to leave?!

[n00b]

... Isn't Neobeo in the Military? I think that answers your question right there.

[Neobeo]

Nobody said anything about leaving. I'm just in a state of not being here for an indefinite amount of time.

[Speeza]

When JCS+ is finished I bet jazz2 will get another spark like jj2+.

[JangoCF]

Wow! I thought they were just saying what we`d like if a new JCS was made. But they are actually CREATING a new JCS?? That`s pretty awesome.

[Speeza]

If you look at the guy above me (neobeo) is currently makeing one , it's 10% done. But I think he's doing other things at the moment so you just have to wait.
It's not a new jcs as such , more like a mod.

[JangoCF]

Well, but it`s with all-new excellent features, I guess?

[Speeza]

Yeah , I think one of the features is making long text , instead of only 2 lines ;( , and more than 16 text strings are aloud.

[JangoCF]

And I guess all the features mentioned here

[Nonomu198]

they they

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thempk4.jpg


We are a small community you know.. no "they" just "these guys"...

[JangoCF]

But these guys is aldo a "them" thus also a "they" . Isn`t that true?

Anyway, we`re wandering off topic now. So, what I`d like in a new JCS too:
A way to put certain events in diffrent layers. As in for example the trigger event. That`d be major cool if you could make trigger events in multiple layers. I AM aware there is a technique for this, by doing something really smart in the top-left of a lvl. But that only works if it`s been there since the first time you saved. Say, you`re in the middle of making a lvl, and you suddenly want a background trigger event, that`d be impossible...
Also, I discovered that that method doesn`t always work flawlessly either.
So, I`d suggest making some events like that into diffrent layers. No actual interactive events like pickups, because you simply can`t jump to another layer, just other type`s of events like Trigger Scenery.(I know triggers are also "interactive" events, I just didn`t know any way to say it diffrently...)

[n0]

Or actually make it so you can jump to other layers! Put warp targets in other layers!

[Dermo]

I don't know how that would be possible due to the engine jj2 runs off of.

But I was thinking something that allowed you to choose how long the text stays up when you hit a trigger text.

[JangoCF]

Maybe multi events would be cool! You know, like a hurt-trigger zone. It triggers something so you can(not) become hurt!
Or a pickup-warp(target). So you pick it up while warping. That one would be a mean trap by the way: "OOH! a 1-up! Let`s pick it up! WAA? I got warped..."

[Violet CLM]

Maybe multi events would be cool! You know, like a hurt-trigger zone. It triggers something so you can(not) become hurt!
Or a pickup-warp(target). So you pick it up while warping. That one would be a mean trap by the way: "OOH! a 1-up! Let`s pick it up! WAA? I got warped..."
Invincibility; belts.
I don't know how that would be possible due to the engine jj2 runs off of.

But I was thinking something that allowed you to choose how long the text stays up when you hit a trigger text.
I don't know how that would be possible due to the engine jj2 runs off of.

[Stijn]

I don't know how that would be possible due to the engine jj2 runs off of.
<!>

[Odin]

I don't know engine that would be jj2 due to the how possible runs off of..

<!>

[Speeza]

Been mentioned proberply , but more background layers >(.

[BattleSpaz]

Well, as an editor JCS already works very well...

But few things I'd like to add if I could:
- How much momery used on tileset and animations, how many tiles/events will Jazz 2 still handle.
- Random background generator (Would be nice for those starry backgrounds)
- MCE and SCE list to easily make them
- Jazz 2+ only events (Activate pits, control points)
- Pacman Ghost Enemy

[JangoCF]

Frog morphing isn`t able in MP. Maybe that too?

[cooba]

Been mentioned proberply , but more background layers >(.If you have anything to say, keep in mind that this is for plausible stuff, not "adding more layers to jcsThat said, everything listed on this page so far can't be solved by a new JCS but by recoding JJ2.. but then again that happens every single time here so I'm not surprised.

[JangoCF]

Oh, well... sorry...

Or was you only talking about his ideas?
BTW, another REALLY cool thing, would be triggered lighting. You know, when you enter a room some parts of it suddenly get lit while they didn`t when you entered earlier in a diffrent way.

But I guess those double events aren`t possible then. Pitty.

[Violet CLM]

Or was you only talking about his ideas?
<!>
everything listed on this page so far

[Jimbob]

BTW, another REALLY cool thing, would be triggered lighting. You know, when you enter a room some parts of it suddenly get lit while they didn't when you entered earlier in a different way.

But I guess those double events aren't possible then. Pitty.
Right Click, 'Select Event', Environment -->Lighting -->Set Light

[JangoCF]

Right Click, 'Select Event', Environment -->Lighting -->Set Light

Nooo... TRIGGERED lighting. Okay, let me explain:
There`s a room right? when you walk into it the light turns to say 30 intensity. There is NO light at all, except the bubble surrounding you. But, when you activate a trigger, the set light events which were allready in the room would suddenly appear.

[Jimbob]

Nooo... TRIGGERED lighting. Okay, let me explain:
There`s a room right? when you walk into it the light turns to say 30 intensity. There is NO light at all, except the bubble surrounding you. But, when you activate a trigger, the set light events which were allready in the room would suddenly appear.

what? The Set Light event IS for triggered lighting.
If you want different areas to light up when you touch it, use it with the Steady Light event.

[Stijn]

OK Jimbob imagine this

You are in a level with lighting 50%. So it's dark all round, but there's a circle of light around you. Now you hit an event which "triggers" a steady light event to turn on, so suddenly there's another circle of light!

aka:

Instead of a trigger for the global lighting (set light), allow the player to trigger local lighting (flicker, steady light).

[Jimbob]

oh lol now I get it

[FawFul]

i have good ones:
1. let the layer 8 (textured) background NOT USE layer 5 speeds but just layer 8
2.let the layer 8 (non-textured) background handle the speeds set (not that it only forces speed 0)
3. be able to choose when you darken the level(lightning stuff, event or properties) not making a lightly ring around jazz/spaz.
4.a one way that goes down! "if you come from above and you touch the ground you go trough it and then you are not able to jump up from beneath again"
5.more background layers
6. more foreground layers
7.maybe an extra sprite layer, which makes the layer 4 and the extra 1 both letting you walk on the masks.
8.let the springing shoes stuff work. that it actually MAKES you higher jump after picking this pickup (like in jj1)
9.maybe this also for a faster running etc.

i think most is impossible but some maybe can handled.
anyway, think about it guys.

** EDIT: 10. a spring event that doesn't fall down if set on air running the level.

[Grytolle]

faster running is definitely possible, but that's a jj2 edit too, not just jcs

[FawFul]

maybe if you edit (jj2+ for example) right that so there is an event possible for that.:+

[Jimbob]

** EDIT: 10. a spring event that doesn't fall down if set on air running the level.

Just use solid trigger scenery events under the springs, then make the player hit a trigger zone.

[Stijn]

i have good ones:
1. let the layer 8 (textured) background NOT USE layer 5 speeds but just layer 8
2.let the layer 8 (non-textured) background handle the speeds set (not that it only forces speed 0)
3. be able to choose when you darken the level(lightning stuff, event or properties) not making a lightly ring around jazz/spaz.
4.a one way that goes down! "if you come from above and you touch the ground you go trough it and then you are not able to jump up from beneath again"
5.more background layers
6. more foreground layers
7.maybe an extra sprite layer, which makes the layer 4 and the extra 1 both letting you walk on the masks.
8.let the springing shoes stuff work. that it actually MAKES you higher jump after picking this pickup (like in jj1)
9.maybe this also for a faster running etc.

i think most is impossible but some maybe can handled.
anyway, think about it guys.

** EDIT: 10. a spring event that doesn't fall down if set on air running the level.
These are all issues that cannot be changed by simply creating a new level editor. They require changing JJ2's engine.

(like 99% of the suggestions in this thread)

[Violet CLM]

The "more layers" idea was in particular mentioned in the First Post Of The Thread as the Idea Not To Post.

[Odin]

The "more layers" idea was in particular mentioned in the First Post Of The Thread as the Idea Not To Post.

Randomly Capitalized Nouns makes you More Awesome.

[FawFul]

"What would you like to see in a brand new JJ2 level editor?"
i am not saying it is possible, the thread doesn't tell you that it has to be possible either. just what would be great to see in a level editor.

jimbob: Just use solid trigger scenery events under the springs, then make the player hit a trigger zone.
A: that is screwed.


btw, is it possible to change the jj2 engine? or do you need that source code to do that kind off stuff?

[Raven aka StL]

That isn't screwed, it is utterly simple :P

[FawFul]

still, it has kind of bugs (in SP it falls down if u run out off the area)
and u can not make one beneath the other one

[Troglobite]

You know what I would really like to see in a brand new JJ2 level editor?

A brand new JJ2 level editor.

Neobeo's signature claims JCS+ is 10% done, and from seeing his firetruck, it's already awesome enough to be uploaded, as a beta at very least. Does anyone have whatever he used, or some similar program? If so, is there any chance it could be posted?

[Raven aka StL]

Patience pays off handsomely in the end.

[Jo Li KMC]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not, but personally, I'd like to see the ability to make Hurt events injure players on-bump. The current Hurt event only hurts players if they're standing on top of (or phased into) a masked tile on which the event overlaps. Being able to "hurt on contact" could open up a lot of possibilities.
Now, if this is already enabled or available in Jazz Creation Station somewhere, somehow, then feel free to tell me 'cause I've tried a few different ways to make it work and none really have.

[DoubleGJ]

This is not related to the JCS, but rather to the game code itself.

[Jo Li KMC]

Oh. Uh...nevermind then.

[Radium]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet or not, but personally, I'd like to see the ability to make Hurt events injure players on-bump. The current Hurt event only hurts players if they're standing on top of (or phased into) a masked tile on which the event overlaps. Being able to "hurt on contact" could open up a lot of possibilities.
Now, if this is already enabled or available in Jazz Creation Station somewhere, somehow, then feel free to tell me 'cause I've tried a few different ways to make it work and none really have.I'm not entirely certain, but aren't there some broken enemy events which are invisible but still hurt to touch?

[DoubleGJ]

AFAIK the Bees event works fine, but you get 100 points and an occasional item if you shoot it the first time.

Or you could just use a 0-length 3D spike ball.

[djazz]

I would like a new JCS for JJ2, more functions like copy/paste, and may even new events? xD

[Violet CLM]

<a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcsref/node.php?node=35&mode=id&menu=topics">Copy/paste?</a>

[plunK]

Ambient lighting and lighting effects to work when water is used

[Grytolle]

You know what I would really like to see in a brand new JJ2 level editor?

A brand new JJ2 level editor.That's a really stupid idea:lori:

[DoubleGJ]

I don't know if this has been mentioned... Something I found myself in need for today: the ability to insert an animation between two already created. OR having the animations in the level adjust if one of them is removed and they're shifted back on the column in the animation box.

[Troglobite]

I don't know if this has been mentioned... Something I found myself in need for today: the ability to insert an animation between two already created. OR having the animations in the level adjust if one of them is removed and they're shifted back on the column in the animation box.

Yes. I agree completely.

[Puffie40]

OR having the animations in the level adjust if one of them is removed and they're shifted back on the column in the animation box.

I found a way around that is to (Carefully) replace the animation you want to remove with another one you can use.

Being able to move animation tiles (Drag n' drop?) around so they are in sync with each other would be cool though.

[DoubleGJ]

I found a way around that is to (Carefully) replace the animation you want to remove with another one you can use.
...but if you remove one by accident, you're screwed.

[blurredd]

That's where cloning animations comes in handy. It's better than nothing.

[Puffie40]

...but if you remove one by accident, you're screwed.

That's where saving frequently comes in handy :+ I like to keep on testplaying my levels so I don't have to think about it...

[djazz]

<a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcsref/node.php?node=35&mode=id&menu=topics">Copy/paste?</a>

Yes, but it's very limited. I want CTRL+C, CTRL+V and such

[Grytolle]

Would be nice to be able to paste an IP into the join game screens (including LAN)

[Stijn]

I know the definition of what features are part of the level editor and which of the game itself has been taken rather liberally in this thread, but I still think a suggestion like that makes more sense in the jj2+ topic.

[Grytolle]

lol

my bad :D

[Black Ninja]

I only have one major request, and it has possibly been mentioned already; if so, I am repeating it because it is more important and much easier to implement than such features as "1337 layers."

There needs to be support for horizontal scroll-wheels on mice. PLEASE.

Being able to scroll up and down and not side to side is annoying. :(

[Jerrythabest]

Maybe not the perfect solution, but I've got one for ye. No idea if it works with mice that can scroll on an X-axis, but it works on regular scrollers.

My previous USB mouse came with this nice 'Browser MOUSE' program that allows you to set special mouse button functions. It's the only one I know of that makes it possible to set it so that when you click the scroll wheel, the program switches to 'horizontal scroll mode'. The scroll wheel will work just the same, except it's scroling horizontally. JCS compatible. It appears to break scrolling in MS Office 2007, though, and also in the normal vertical scrolling mode, so personally I'm only running it if I need the horizontal scrolling feature.

You can download it for free from Medion's website, here (http://www1.medion.de/downloads/download.pl?id=2471&type=treiber&filename=cord42488win9xp.exe). This file is a self-extracting ZIP file. Just have it create a folder on your desktop or open it directly with WinZip. You'll find a folder in there named 'mouse'. The setup is in this folder.

Once you've got the program running, double-click its tray icon. At the second tab ('Buttons' or something similar), you can set button 3 (which is the scroll wheel, though you may also choose button 4 or 5 if you have those on your mouse) to the horizontal scrolling mode. Click OK and you're done!

[plunK]

I just sortve use the arrow keys to scroll the level, and why would anyone want a horizantal scrolling mouse?

[SPAZ18]

I really hate the tileset menu, the scroll bar is horrible. :mad:
It would be better if the list of tilesets appeared in a seperate window and have some kind of search function to find the set you want.
Also, how about having a preview image show up whenever a tileset is chosen?
And, at the bottom of the window have the usual "OK" and "Cancel" buttons.

BTW, I didn't know mice had horizontal scroll wheels. :eek:
Never seen those here in the UK.

[djazz]

It would be better if the list of tilesets appeared in a seperate window and have some kind of search function to find the set you want.

Indeed. A tagging system would be great too,
example: castle1.j2t tags: stone, castle etc..

[abraker]

No offense, but make everything EASY to understand (and make).

[dermo529]

No, I already learned how to use JCS, don't change EVERYTHING around to make it "simpler"

[Troglobite]

I agree with both of you. It would be inconvenient to relearn levelmaking, but JCS could be made much more user friendly. For example, when I try using the help feature, JCS says I need a new browser or something, which meant I spent years making my levels without knowing any of the key shortcuts like b and e. And I could never figure out how to edit animated tiles. It would be nice to have stuff better explained, but still in basically the same place.

[DarkB]

I know the definition of what features are part of the level editor and which of the game itself has been taken rather liberally in this thread, but I still think a suggestion like that makes more sense in the jj2+ topic.
Or make a thread with name 'JCS+ features' and discuss there ;p

[Quickz]

Only read the last page of this thread, but one thing I always missed is an option to add tiles to the left and/or upper-side of the level.

[mortalspaz]

Can it be 1 more thing please?
Can JCS+ have more than 15 available text string boxes?
It could come in handy sometimes...



~MSpaz:-)

[DarkB]

Can it be 1 more thing please?
Can JCS+ have more than 15 available text string boxes?
It could come in handy sometimes...



~MSpaz:-)
Well that change was seen in Neo's firetruck.In that level the last txt string is 100 or so...
But for now the only thing you can so is to get the reworder program and you can write in txt more than 512 characters ;)(I think this is also a major change for level's)

[Violet CLM]

That will definitely be coming in the next version of Reworder... right now I've got it up to twenty strings, I think, all of 512 characters, and I'm currently trying to figure out exactly what Neobeo did to get more than that. But it's coming.

[DarkB]

That will definitely be coming in the next version of Reworder... right now I've got it up to twenty strings, I think, all of 512 characters, and I'm currently trying to figure out exactly what Neobeo did to get more than that. But it's coming.
great ;) also another interface of the program will be cool.to be more easy to use :)(if that is possible :D)

[Violet CLM]

That is an extremely vague comment that is therefore impossible to act upon.

[Foly]

I think this is suggested already or its too hard to make:

Trigger Crates with the same things as a trigger zone but for the whole server (so you can put triggers on and off for everyone).

[dermo529]

That would throw a major monkey wrench into everything. Local triggers vs global triggers is confusing enough with already.

Imaging Triggering scenery without a crate. That would be so confusing!!!

However, expanding the number of usable triggers would be quite nice.

[DarkB]

I think this is suggested already or its too hard to make:

Trigger Crates with the same things as a trigger zone but for the whole server (so you can put triggers on and off for everyone).
It would be cool to have a global trigger crate but with some options like: affects everyone, affects only one person(must specify) and the function to stop trigger's working.

[mortalspaz]

But where did Neo got JCS+ for Neobeo's firetruck?
JCS+ is finished?
If yes.. Where can i get it?

[DarkB]

But where did Neo got JCS+ for Neobeo's firetruck?
JCS+ is finished?
If yes.. Where can i get it?
JCS+ is coded by NeoBeo so he's the creator of it.
JCS+ is not finished and I don't know if he had in mind to finish this, probably not..so you don't have where to get it.
Just download the Reworder prog and try edit with ;)

[Grytolle]

firetruck was made in paint

[mortalspaz]

Ummm what do you mean by.. "made in paint"?
You cannot just drop an image as a map. Can you?

[Penalty]

Neobeo can do anything. ;) Even make jazz 2 levels in MS paint!

[Violet CLM]

I mean, I guess you could... I don't see why you'd <i>want</i> to, though. Level editors can certainly learn some things from paint programs but I think the separation of map and tileset is a good one.

[Dermo]

Lets make a level in 3D Max Studio Pro.

Wait, how to compress to zlib though?

LOL it would be cool but wouldn't work the engine wouldn't even be able to support it.

[DarkB]

firetruck was made in paint
nah, firetruck was made in Photoshop ;)

[cooba]

It wouldn't be hard to turn BMP into J2L, which I suspect Neobeo did.

[Grytolle]

nah, firetruck was made in Photoshop ;)
Don't spam. Neobeo really did use paint:mad:

[DarkB]

Don't spam. Neobeo really did use paint:mad:
ok ok ;p it made lvl in paint then edited in photoshop :lol: joke :P

[Grytolle]

ok ok ;p it made lvl in paint then edited in photoshop :lol: joke :PJokes are supposed to be funny...

[Olsen]

Jokes are supposed to be funny...

What!? Outrageous...!

[DarkB]

Let's go back on topic and talk what should be implemented in new JCS ;)

[Jerrythabest]

Apparently: Paint, Photoshop and jokes.

[Dermo]

Boy, would that be an interesting copyright...

[mortalspaz]

But what about the laser shield? In the description it sais it can be aquired only by jjshield. Can you find a way of geting it in JCS?