I've had it

[cooba]

That's right, I've got enough.

Why can't *I* come up with something which everyone likes? I'm trying, I always have been trying, all to no avail. Whenever I create a level, there's always a LITTLE something wrong. I try to be original, and when I don't fail (rarely) then hardly anyone notices. But when someone evidently takes my concept, they get all the praise "oh very nice, keep it up gj mate"

How come I can't come out as an appreciated level designer? I've been creating levels for a little less than 5/6 years (I haven't been keeping track, sue me), gradually getting better and better. And what for? No one likes my levels, no one finds my efforts well done, and I can't even make a good screenshot of my own level. How the hell is that possible I don't know.

If it weren't enough I can't even get any ideas anymore. Last time I had an idea for a SP level, it couldn't have been done without basically recoding the game. Why do my ideas have to be so complicated to make. They're all so simple when I think of them. But the thing is, I lose a good idea when I'm about to get one. Is that some sort of subliminal discouragement? Or what?

Why is that I wasted three and half a year doing what no one would like? Just when I thought I would know most of all issues of JJ2 level design, there's just someone which proves me wrong, and renders my creations useless.

But (-)(-)(-), why.

[n0]

Because you are playing an eight year old game about a green bunny.

[Birdie]

I like your levels, I also do somtimes come up with an idea that would be impossible without recoding, but somtimes I take those ideas and try to adapt them so they'll work.
Have I stolen any of your concepts? ;\

[Stijn]

There's some truth in what n0 says. The game is almost ten years old, and partly as a consequence of that fairly limited in how customizable it is. I have had numerous ideas myself which would have required the game to support júst that little feature it didn't support.

As for there always being something wrong, well, that happens to everyone. There's almost always something better than what you have done. Something revolutionary, such as say an Agama tileset or RHG, isn't made everyday, which should be no reason to be discouraged. Several of your uploads scored higher than 7, I wouldn't say nobody liked your levels then. Heck, recently I had a lot of fun playing a few games of CTF in a level of yours.

I think what you should do is go create levels for yourself, rather than for high ratings. You can never please everyone, but you can please yourself.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

That's a good question. It's something to do with the human phychology. I've noticed that too. To quote an episode from Quincey M.E. : "You spend your whole life helping people, then you screw up once, and they never let it down."
Something similar here. People only notice mistakes.

Now, all my levels suck, (except the one for the CE Project,) and you know why? Because I make them for fun. Who gives a donkey's (-) about it? They say it sucks, but if it's fun and you like it, then who cares?

So anyways, just don't give up.

[FQuist]

I've not played many of your levels, very little actually, but for what it's worth I really enjoyed those race levels you showed me, one of which was featured in a featured download at J2O, afaik.

[FireSworD]

Most of the problems you mentioned are common to all of us really. If you really want to know how frustrating the limits can be in jj2 talk with Violet and he will give you a fairly detailed explantion of great ideas gone to waste.

Appriciation...hmm this is a very touchy subject. I recall p4ul complaining that his levels weren't being as appriciated as yours. In ab7 everyone was worried their levels wouldn't be added cause there was an 'oldie' bias. Heck, there has been and always will be biases and there is no way you can convince people otherwise. The best way to deal with this is to be patient and eventually your work will be noticed in a different light. Even so, you have gotten a lot of recogniton of a level designer, and in theese times it's a lot easier to get noticed in the community. If you had arrived back in 2001 you would have been in an era which the communtiy has completely against new players no matter what and being an oldie automatically made you elite even if he/she really wasn't.

By the way, your hoax screenshots were awesome! ;)

[Fawriel]

Human psyche. We tend to not judge people by their actions, but actions by their actor. If someone you like tells a joke, you'll find it funny. If someone you hate tells the exact same joke, trust me, you won't.
It's the same with levels. Agama could upload something mostly average and everybody would be like, "well it's not THAT superingenious but THAT and THAT and THAT totally rocks about it so 9.5!"
If someone who hasn't done well before uploads something nice, they get encouragement. And when someone seems to be bragging about how good they are, many people will see the need to point out their flaws because they tend to not like show-offs for some reason.
Yes, the last point was a hint at Impressive Creations. I'm sure your levels are awesome, and if I still played JJ2 ( which may soon happen again ), I would really look forward to playing some of your announced impressive creations.

But yeah, in the end, it all boils down to who seems nice to you and who doesn't. Just like how you probably found that post obnoxious.

[Xobim]

I've noticed that people are rating more strict than before. Levelpacks that contained a really stupid storyline and low-quality levels got quite high ratings a few years ago. If those packs were to be submitted now, they would get a much lower rating.
So maybe that could be a reason?

[NovaStar]

http://forumpics/oldnews.jpg

[Grytolle]

Fawriel got it right, I think

[Birdie]

I actually think it's because rep reviewed NAII but not impressions snz. ;)
<!--SECRET MESSAGE OF SECRETS!!!! =D-->

[snzspeed]

nah, just nvm that post, i was angry.

altough, i still think that nowadays standards have gone wrong. :(

AND indeed, r3p reviewed it and underrated it, so gg

[Raven aka StL]

Cooba, your levels (-)ing own, though what I say doesn't mean (-) ;d

[Raven aka StL]

Also, snz, quit hijacking Cooba's thread plz thnx. :/
Many people notice how awesome you are with jcs, perhaps a little too awesome. ;d

There's nothing wrong with your levels, Cooba.

[snzspeed]

Also, snz, quit hijacking Cooba's thread plz thnx. :/
Many people notice how awesome you are with jcs, perhaps a little too awesome. ;d

There's nothing wrong with your levels, Cooba.

nah i thought this would be a good oppoturnity to say whats been in my head.

altough i dont get whats wrong with cooba's levels. :/

[Raven aka StL]

Nothing wrong with either one's levels.
You just don't seem to get it that what you've created is true art and is highly appreciated by the community.

Although I think there's not many ways left for people to express how they feel about your levels.

Just accept the fact that they're awesome and continue making them.
And also, don't make levels when you haven't got inspiration or a plan.
That could almost be called a rule. ;d

[snzspeed]

and well, everyone has a different taste, and everyone prefers different concepts and tilesets and stuff over others, so yea.

but indeed, nothing wrong with your levels, imo.

[DarkSonic]

Bleh, I had a semi-long post about this and lost it. But what I want to say is that you make 'impressive' things sometimes, but there are worse levels as well and that's pretty logical. Not every level in a pack is as good, which you might have noticed in the recent packs.

[Camou]

You say people don't like your levels, but everyone has good/bad levels. And for Middle Drainer and the new Toxin Twister... I really like Toxin Twister :) I just hate reviewing stuff, otherwise I'd give it a 7.8.

And all uploads (except 1(!)) got a 8+ rating on the IC account. So, I'm quite sure people appreciate you and the work you do. For the screenshot thing, it was something like "greatest levelmakers" and stuff. Blabla I'm too lazy to do stuff:

If someone who hasn't done well before uploads something nice, they get encouragement. And when someone seems to be bragging about how good they are, many people will see the need to point out their flaws because they tend to not like show-offs for some reason.
Yes, the last point was a hint at Impressive Creations. I'm sure your levels are awesome, and if I still played JJ2 ( which may soon happen again ), I would really look forward to playing some of your announced impressive creations.

(The only reason my levels get 8+ is because people overrate my levels too much)

[Olsen]

That's not Dx like I remember you.

Anyway... Yeah, Fawriel got it right. This is what I've been feeling too, even if I dont create levels that are even near the quality of yours.

[FQuist]

Any more flaming/trolling posts will get a <b>full</b> warning.

[DarkSonic]

Bleh, I don't know why people troll and spam in topics like this.

But it's true. The old levels became classics because people have played them since they were created. Levels like Semi and BBLair are just classics, but if someone makes a level like that now it gets a much lower rating. And we try to be original now as well, even though that's hard sometimes.

[Vegito]

This will get my vote in the "Best thread ever" votings :)

Although I know what you mean, I think you should stop caring and start making levels for yourself instead of good ratings.
I don't play JJ2 either because others want me to so badly. I play from time to time because I like to :)

[Raven aka StL]

At times like these I'm surprised that Vegito isn't an admin on jcf... ;/
Although I think that could be bad for me... but whattheheck.

[PurpleJazz]

I sometimes feel exactly the same about my levels Cooba. I wouldn't really act too negative though. Most of your levels pwn in my oppinion, and I expect IC-IF will get a very good rating. I also have to agree that you shouldn't really care about ratings so much. And you have had some good ratings, like your Race Levels got rated 9.1, which is extremely high. It is hard to get very high ratings like that these days.

[Grytolle]

Don't feel too flattered ;P There's a very limited amount of people to ask for games, Veg

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Has anyone noticed that Cooba has not made a single reply to this thread?

[Neobeo]

When I make a level (actually I've only made one so far) I do it because I want to express my ideas in an otherwise intangible form. Thinking about "how good will people rate my level" or "how should I place stuff to get maximum rating" just takes all the fun out of level creation.

[FireSworD]

This is not possible but even if, say, there was an absoloute standard for level design and if there was the 'perfect' level; not everyone would rate it 10 even though it would deserve that rating.

[cooba]

Has anyone noticed that Cooba has not made a single reply to this thread?Indeed, I have noticed.

[Taikun]

Yeah, some people will rate it but MORE people will try and play it. Some will find it bad, some not so good, and others will think it's excellent. It's like everything in life, it's NORMAL. So don't push yourself too much on it ;)

[TripleJ]

Yeah, some people will rate it but MORE people will try and play it. Some will find it bad, some not so good, and others will think it's excellent. It's like everything in life, it's NORMAL. So don't push yourself too much on it ;)

I agree
I have always played Cooba's levels. They are awesome!

[cooba]

So don't push yourself too much on it ;)I push myself as much as I want, thank you.

[Blackraptor]

If you're trying to make levels that please everyone, you're doing quite a lot of things wrong.

"I don't know what the key to success is, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." (Bill Cosby)

There will ALWAYS be people who don't like your levels/appreciate your concepts/whatever the hell else. If you can't accept negative criticism you shouldn't really be releasing levels. If your goal when making a level is to please everybody, you're going to crash pretty badly as that goal is extremely unrealistic. Even if your goal is to please as many people possible, that's still a rather bad way to view things and you won't be as succesful if all you desire is praise for your work.

When you make a level, the only goal you should have is to please yourself. If you are satisfied with the outcome, then that should be enough. When you make levels simply for pleasing others, you're going to find the process annoying and the outcome less than agreeable. Stop caring so much about how you don't receive fame (even though that's not true and if you are telling yourself that absolutely nobody likes your levels then you are focusing way too much on the negative outcomes and deceiving yourself) and just make levels for the fun of it.

A little appreciation is always nice, but don't let that be your goal when making a level. I should also state here that (I think) receiving positive feedback from a respected level maker is worth more than receiving positive feedback from 10 random jj2 players, so it's not so much as how much respect you manage to earn when you release levels, but where that respect comes from.

edit: this thread isn't as new as I thought ;(. bah to not paying attention to the JCF for the past month.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

I push myself as much as I want, thank you.
*chuckle*
And don't fret it Cooba. I find myself working backwards through levels, finding ratings of 2 and bumping them up to 5 because they weren't appreciated. I'll probably find one of your levels and love it.

Oh, but you could fret it if you REALLY wanted to. :D

EDIT: Darn you Blackraptor! You got here first...

[FireSworD]

This is obvious, but I must state that this is a 2d rabbit game after all. Those of us here aren't playing jj2 because it's 'impressive' or anything.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Those of us here aren't playing jj2 because it's 'impressive' or anything.
Speak for yourself...