Questions about the jazz 2 source

[Dermo]

I see as this forum goes we find out more and more by disassembling jazz but we're so far from getting anywhere with it. So that leads me to my question.

I know Jazz Jackrabbit 2 was coded a very long time ago. Epic probably had lots of programmers in on this game. Now i'm pretty sure that somebody had to quit their job at Epic. Now if we could just figure out who and get in contact with them, i think somebody trustworthy (e.g. not me) could get their hands on at least the shareware version's source code and maybe we could have it...

[Nimrod]

Theres only one person who I know of who still has the source code, thats Becky(formally known as Burger). She got licensed by Epic Games to port the PC game to Mac. Because of this, she got the full source code of the PC version (which is what we want) and also the Mac version which may be helpful to the Mac gaming community(?).

She has said to me she would hand over the source code, if I could get hold of someone from Epic to give her permission. Whenever or not she would actually go through with it is another question, but everything else I've spoken to her about she was always honest about and happy to help.

(Becky to those of you who don't know, is known to the community for hosting the old jazz.logicware.com List Server which was the only list active when Epic games pulled support.)

I have contact with Warren from Epic Games (due to our conversation with getting the epic domain forwarded to my domain) and am working with him to perhaps get permission, nothing much on that front (its usually a week or two by the time he gets an email from me, and I receive the reply) but I will keep you updated on the status of that. Warren does have regular contact with both CliffyB and Mark Rein who I guess are the two people who would need to sign off on this at Epic Games?

Then again, none of this mentions Orange Games, I'm not to sure in their involvement, but Becky mentioned nothing of them and mentioned she got the source and the license from Epic Games which makes me wonder what Orange games actually own in regards to JJ2.

[Stijn]

That is great news. Thanks for the effort.

Could it perhaps be that Orange Games at the time of JJ2 developement acted as an Epic subsidiary and as such transferred their rights to Epic after the project? Though I do remember that Arjan mentioned something about "sending lawyers to Epic" when he was talking about getting the source code, it would explain why Orange Games apparently has no role in this.

[sonicnathan 1]

Really? So theres a good chance we will FINALLY get the source code?

[Nimrod]

Really? So theres a good chance we will FINALLY get the source code?


I wouldnt say good chance, but I wouldn't say bad chance. There is no way I'm promising I can pull this off. My conversation with Becky was over a year ago though I still have her on my contact list. My conversation with Warren has been more recent, and its mostly about the gaming industry and how to get in it, but I have brought up the possability with him.

While I can't dedicate tons of my time to this, as it is my appearence in the JJ2 community has been non-existent for quite a while though the odd 5 mins popping on JCF (and more recently the bash). I will do my best and continue to bring it up in conversation and see if I can get it going somewhere postive.

I still do recommend everyone else to continue there own methods of acheiving the common goal of getting hold of the source code, with more possabilities means more chances of sucess.

I will get back in the coming months if any news develops and such. Just really don't want the community thinking I am getting the source and then getting disappointed, I'm only talking about one possible way of getting hold of it which I am looking into.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

I will get back in the coming months if any news develops and such. Just really don't want the community thinking I am getting the source and then getting disappointed, I'm only talking about one possible way of getting hold of it which I am looking into.
Heh, that's fine. It's good to at least know that it's POSSIBLE. Good luck to you.

@Community: Good luck everyone!
*gets food thrown at him, then starts catching food and shoving in bags*
MY weekly shopping's done.
*runs off*

[Monolith]

Licencing is the main issue here. The only real advantage to knowing Becky who has the source code is that at least we know someone who knows where a copy of the source is (assuming) without having to go searching for it. This is only one piece of the puzzel, and it may come in handy, but we need to take care of many other pieces first -- primarily getting permission for Epic.

There was an effort started in the 1.25 forum on formally requesting the source code as an entire community, although that died due to inactivity. I feel continuing with what we had started there would be the best way to go about requesting permission for the source code. Once we have a formal request put together, cleaned up and supported by the community, then we could start pulling whatever connections we may have with Epic.

[Sacrush]

Good luck Nimrod.

[FQuist]

I would very much like Monolith's suggestion of reviving the 1.25 forum's formal request project.

[sonicnathan 1]

ok. I hope we get it. I really want to Jazz v1.25 patch to come!

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

I also think that it would be good to review what we started before and never finished with regards to the source code. A formal request sent over postage mail sounds like the most reasonable way for us to act on this.

[Xplosive]

[Message Log/Details]

Stijn: The message log and conversation details you posted here explicitly stated that this conversation should not be spread around. By posting it here anyway you are not only violating Becky's trust but also endangering any other attempts at getting the source code via Becky. Please do not do something like this again. If you want to post about the conversation here, first ask her personally what parts of the conversation could be spread and which not or perhaps ask her to come here and write a message herself instead of doing it this way.

[Xplosive]

[Message Log/Details]

Stijn: The message log and conversation details you posted here explicitly stated that this conversation should not be spread around. By posting it here anyway you are not only violating Becky's trust but also endangering any other attempts at getting the source code via Becky. Please do not do something like this again. If you want to post about the conversation here, first ask her personally what parts of the conversation could be spread and which not or perhaps ask her to come here and write a message herself instead of doing it this way.

I asked jamster he said the parts what she didn't want people to know have been edited out. so can i repost this?

[Stijn]

I'd like to get confirmation/explanation of that from Jamster himself then. I have added him to my MSN contact list, but he can also send a PM (that is still possible when banned).

We can simply not risk any classified information leaking out this way, that's why I'm so careful about this ;)

[FQuist]

Better to have specific confirmation from Becky, even.

[Stijn]

On second thought, indeed, we'll need confirmation from Becky herself. Perhaps you could as I suggested ask her to come here and post about this herself, if she has the time?

[Karmus]

Great! If this is a success, then we can finally convert J2Bs back to their original mods and port the game for for Linux, for instance, and of course Macintosh. Good work, Nimrod! I'm excited to hear about the results.

[MSB3000]

Good luck. The Holy Grail of JJ2 might be within reach.

[sonicnathan 1]

Holy grail?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Good movie.

[FreeFull]

To port Jazz2 to linux we don't even need to change the source code, we can use winelib to compile it.

[MSB3000]

Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Good movie.

(It's more than just that.)

[ShadeJackrabbit]

I know that. :)

[Sonyk]

To port Jazz2 to linux we don't even need to change the source code, we can use winelib to compile it.It runs perfectly on WINE already, why would we want to port it?

[Link]

It runs perfectly on WINE already, why would we want to port it?

So you don't need to use WINE to run it?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

That's actually the main point I think. You could make a "re-spin" as they're known of the game, with your favourite levels and stuff... compiled to run on linux. Would run much more easily on a just-installed distrubution of linux.

[n00b]

Great! If this is a success, then we can finally convert J2Bs back to their original mods

Can't we already do that with Dr.Eggman's converter?
And it's already possible to obtain Alexander Brandon's music in their original versions to begin with

[Dermo]

Who would get the source?

Mono and Nimrod seem pretty busy with their own lives.

I say we should beg and plead jam to come back he always built godly programs and stuck to his word. Despite his somewhat evil past in the community, he was a great contributer.

[EvilMike]

It runs perfectly on WINE already, why would we want to port it?

It doesn't run perfectly. I find it has difficulty switching between window mode and fullscreen (though it works well enough if you start the program in one or the other and stick with it), it's definitely slower than it is on windows, and there are some minor sound issues. JCS also lacks the parallax view window (bottom right). Overall these problems are minor, and I would say the game runs NEARLY perfectly, but a true port would definitely be an improvement.

[Grytolle]

What evil did jam do?

[Neobeo]

no one is supposed to know this but jam is unknownfile in secret

[Birdie]

Is neobeo gry as well as neobeo? :<!---->(

[NovaStar]

yes :(

[Torkell]

What, is it reveal-your-secret-alter-ego time already?

I'd better sign in and post as my secret identity.

[FQuist]

As I was saying... Hello.

[sonicnathan 1]

Now I'm just lost.

[ThunderPX]

Now I'm just lost.

Maybe you should get a map.</offtopic>

Speaking of Dr. Eggman's converter, did anyone ever post the actual converter instead of the random C++ code to compile it?

[Xobim]

Erm, somewhat more ontopic:
Is the sourcecode going to get placed on the internet, so anyone can download it, or will it only be available to a specified group of coders and such?
IF we can get our hands on the source, ofcourse... :)

[DoubleGJ]

Speaking of Dr. Eggman's converter, did anyone ever post the actual converter instead of the random C++ code to compile it?
Yeah, he did upload it on J2O and I've used it a few times even.

[Neobeo]

life is all about c++ code

[sonicnathan 1]

If we get the source then it's only going to be property of all the members of Jazz online. Trust me. Putting it on the net is a 100% garenty that epic is going to soo us all.

[ThunderPX]

If we get the source then it's only going to be property of all the members of Jazz online. Trust me. Putting it on the net is a 100% garenty that epic is going to soo us all.

If we get the source at all if will be with Epic's permission. Nobody is even going to think about giving it out without it.

[FQuist]

I know that certainly I wouldn't endorse any source being leaked without official permission, and I'm pretty sure it would not be shared through our site. So don't even think about it.

[n00b]

If we get the source then it's only going to be property of all the members of Jazz online. Trust me. Putting it on the net is a 100% garenty that epic is going to soo us all.

Well as along as they don't sue, I don't see the problem.



Ok, bad joke.

no one is supposed to know this but jam is unknownfile in secret

... I should have known! They sounded so similar!

[Jerrythabest]

Whoever gets the code should first try to get a nice team of people you can turst to start listing all the bugs that should be fixed in JJ2 (so leave out the wallclimbing and MCE bugs as fixing them will mean a lot of levels will not work anymore) and a list of things to add. Someone, preferably someone who is easy to contact with much time and who doesn't get stressed very easily, should then keep all information up-to-date on a location that is accessable to at least all of the team members, but preferably the whole community as it shouldn't contain any secrets anyway. Obviously, a public 1.25 category should be added to the forum with progress reports, to-do lists and threads were everyone can post ideas or the game. Ideas should best be categorized into seperate threads, think of "Bugfixes" "New evets" "Implemented gamestyles" "Game options" etc. Maybe you could make two threads for each type, one for completely worked out features and one for vague ideas.

Oh, and don't forget about an IRC channel ;p

[Grytolle]

Original ideas there, Jerry.

[Jerrythabest]

If that was sarcasm, then sorry I didn't satisfy you.

If that wasn't, I find them pretty obvious still. After all, you shouldn't just say "Oh hi m8 of course you may help, here is the source code" to everyone who asks the code; there shouldn't be 20 people holding lists and stuff as stuff is being incompatible with each other then; etc etc ;p

[Dermo]

Lol here we go with another source question. If you can get Becky in here ask her to please port jj2 over to the PSP. I have Jazz Jackrabbit 1 Full Version but i'd love jj2 as well. I know it'd be a bit of learning how the PSP hardware works but i'd love to see it on the PSP.

You can download a C++ program for the PSP here:

http://www.psp-hacks.com/file/1125

(Also if any of you community members get/own a PSP don't update the firmware or you will lose any possibilities of running self-coded programs. Instead look for a downgrader that brings your PSP down to 1.50 (buy a mod chip if you already updated) and then download custom firmware by DarkAlex (3.40OE-A is the latest that i know of)).

So Becky if you see this thread do me (and possibly the PSP community) a favor and port this! :D :D :D :D :D

[Tik]

I have no idea about any of this, but might Battery Check being released as freeware make us a bit closer to getting the engine, at least? Or would be still have to buy it?

[Stijn]

Funnily enough, there are some .h files coming with the demo of Animaniacs: A Gigantic Adventure. Nothing interesting as far as I could judge with my rudimental C++ knowledge but there might be other interesting things in there.

[Jerrythabest]

is that a 'JJ2-engined' game?

[cooba]

Yes

[Neobeo]

In fact, messing around with the battery check exe for a few hours gives me a better idea of the engine internals than I had with jazz2 exe for months.

[Erik]

Funnily enough, there are some .h files coming with the demo of Animaniacs: A Gigantic Adventure. Nothing interesting as far as I could judge with my rudimental C++ knowledge but there might be other interesting things in there.

[citation needed] (aka send me)

[Violet CLM]

or you could be practical and just, I dunno, download the demo yourself and you'd even be able to see what the .h files might be impacting?

[Grytolle]

why would that be more practical in any way

[ThunderPX]

Because then you can enjoy Animaniacs(tm): The Great Adventure.

[Violet CLM]

Well, it involves just getting the files yourself rather than finding someone else to do it for you... seems practical to me.

[n00b]

You could get the files instantly instead of waiting for Stijn to send them.