Hotel Jackrabbit 2

[FireSworD]

The name sounds silly, doesn't it?

If I were to describe playing jj2 online, its game-play would mostly consist of 'doing nothing in levels known as hotels'. Yeah, that's jj2, doing nothing.

I've decided to write this rant, because I feel this little rabbit game's potential is being wasted in such an incredibly sad way. Since the server-list has been redirected, there are, of course, plenty of new players, and excuse my choice of words here, but these players are pretty much unskilled. You might think there would be more interesting players since the switch, but we can assume a game consisting of players doing nothing in 'hotels' would make them lose interest before they would learn more about the community. I don't care if hotels are hosted, but it's the only game-type that 90% of them seem to like trying besides tests. What's more mind boggling is that I'm describing the hotels that do not even use the concept of collecting coins. No real gameplay, nothing.

Speaking of tests, these things provide a nice challenge and a good sense of accomplishment, but boy are these some of the blandest levels I've ever seen. There is no other sense of interaction besides focusing on a few blocks! - I mean geez, I enjoy playing them sometimes, especially when they are designed well, but like hotels, players only seem to care about playing these all the time.

I wrote this post to hopefully stir some conversation on this subject. I am truly boggled as to why these levels are so interesting to them, yet they won't even touch other game-types.

[Dermo]

Since the serverlist has been redirected, there are, ofcourse, plently of new players, and excuse my choice of words here, but theese players are pretty much nothing. You would think there would be more interesting players since the switch but we can assume a game consisting of players doing virtually nothing in 'hotels' would make them lose interest easily before they would even think of trying to learn about the true community.

YES RIGHT ON ON THAT ONE FireSworD! This is a post i can completely agree with! And yes they host hotels too much but it's something new. I mean on almost all online games you have CTF and Battle. Tests are something new though that games (like this one) don't contain and were not meant to contain.

Although hotels are boring. It's like playing bumper hogs (no shooting) on Halo. No action just driving around gets boring in 5 minutes.

[Yasco]

Since the serverlist has been redirected, there are, ofcourse, plently of new players, and excuse my choice of words here, but theese players are pretty much nothing. You would think there would be more interesting players since the switch but we can assume a game consisting of players doing virtually nothing in 'hotels' would make them lose interest easily before they would even think of trying to learn about the true community. I personally don't care if hotels are hosted, but they seem to be the only gametype which 90% of theese pricks even seem to like trying besides tests, and that is pathetic. What's more mind boggling is that I'm describing the hotels that do not even use the concept of collecting coins, at all, no gameplay, nothing.

Yep , the problem is that most of them have never heard about J2O or JCF. And if they do know about it , then it would be the downloadpage of it(where they could download hotels). I do understand your point that it would be really interesting to have these new players involved in the community. As it would be nice if they would create clans. But not only the clanscene would improve , also normal 2v2/3v3 games could get more interesting(and easier to arrange them). I guess we should find a way to introduce them to the real Jazzjackrabbit scene ; starting from taking them to J2O & JCF.

[DarkSonic]

++FS

I agree, hotels are pretty boring, except a few ones maybe. But most are in TSF as well as some in 1.23. And tests can be fun, but I don't like them because I'm not very good at them. We need more new real Multiplayer levels, gamemodes like Treasure are underhosted while it can be fun. But Battle and CTF levels are the most popular. However, gamemodes like Flag Run and Pitfall are 'new', so people could make some levels with the 'new' gamemodes. However, not everyone has the new Carrotade yet.

[Stijn]

You would think there would be more interesting players since the switch but we can assume a game consisting of players doing virtually nothing in 'hotels' would make them lose interest easily before they would even think of trying to learn about the true community.
J2O and the people regularly visiting it, which I assume you mean, is not "the true community" at all. J2O may be a site where part of the JJ2 players regularly comes, there are still lots of people who play JJ2 regularly, sometimes in clans, but do not visit J2O or the JCF often. I found that sentence quite elitist.

[Sasik]

Most of the people you are talking about are around 10 years old and they just don't care about competition, they want to have fun. The reason is maybe that when they play with someone more experienced or skilled, they are called automatically 'noob' (because of their low skill) and they lose their motivation to play ctf/battle because they lose fast in this gametypes. Other problem is that it's hard to talk with these people as their lack the knowledge of english. Also I rarely see skilled players playing in public servers. So with whom the new players can play 'better' gametypes?
The group of experienced jj2 players is really exclusive. They (we?) aren’t interested in teaching new players how to play, what are the useful programs or what’s going on in the community (as tournaments etc.). If someone do this job, there will be more real players in this community.

The main reason why most people play only hotels or tests – because they can feel that they are good in them ;P And hotel/test is the easiest gametype. You don’t have to know ctf codes or have many progs (like seekerhole fix etc.) to play them.

[Grytolle]

More clans than CC, VS and the newest clans should recruit lowskill players (Yes, I do mean FoR, TF, GpW and DM). I don't really care that much if there aren't more new clans, but there should be more players that are interested in playing competitive games.

Another problem is of course that good players only play private games... I'd say a CTF server instead of Battle server would make public server playing more fun for those, but then again, I'm a CTF freak.

Might have more thoughts later, need to move on to the next thread now. *submits*

[BattleSpaz]

There should be pinging server named "Get latest patches and tilesets from www.jazz2online.com!" and next to it "People like battle and CTF games. Hotels are boring.". It would work.

[Stijn]

I've also met a lot of people who seemed to know about J2O but didn't feel like visiting it much for whatever reason. I doubt the problem is in the knowledge about J2O's existence.

I can understand the sentiment though. I played Q3A and UT casually for some time, but never felt like looking at the sites because I didn't have the need to get involved much. Just joining a random server every now and then was enough fun for me and I saw no need to get involved with the "community", whatever that was. I can imagine those people not visiting J2O feel the same.

[FQuist]

I join Stijn and Sasik in thinking there are elitist/exclusivise tendencies being expressed here. If people like hotels - why not? They are probably younger than the J2O/JCF-visiting part of the community, and if their idea of fun is such levels, I'm not sure why that should be judged. I see no need to call these people 'pricks'. Insulting them and the ways in which they have fun does not make any of them more likely to get involved. Why involve yourself with clubs that act condescendingly towards you?

[Blackraptor]

It IS annoying when the majority of them only host tests and hotels of the same terrible quality because instead of improving the game and the community surrounding it they're regressing it instead.

[Stijn]

I'd say, don't join those servers. Problem solved?

[Blackraptor]

I don't play online anyways so I have no personal problem with this. It's just sad to see so many new people choosing to waste the potential of the game instead of improving it.

[FQuist]

I do agree in that I'd like it too if these players would choose for methods of entertainment that are closer to mine so that there are more people to play with. But I don't think anyone is 'wasting' anything by choosing to have what games are for: fun. I actually think this is a rather nice example of the extensibility of JJ2, that it can be used for things like hotels and tests, which were probably not even thought of by the developers.

[FireSworD]

I apologize, my post was indeed elitest. I stated I never really cared if theese players liked hotels or whatever they might host, that's their business, but at the scale at which theese things are hosted they are practically the most popular gametype and reflect greatly on what playing jj2 is like.

[NovaStar]

Funnily enough, I haven't seen a hotel or test level in a server for ages. I agree with Sasik on the elitism though. There aren't enough clans for them to join because most of them have a tryout score too high for their skill. Therefore they try to go it alone, eventually get discouraged and so on and so forth. And don't ask me how do I know, because I'm still in their skill range ><

[Dreamer]

I just started playing jazz jackrabbit stuff again recently and found some annoying test servers out there. I've never played on jj2 multiplayer that much and would like to expirience capture, treasure or battle with a decent number of players. This test thing gets on my nerves because it's the only thing out there I can join (everything else it kicks me off the server and says "connection timed out"), and test gets pretty old after a couple hundred times of attempting one of those "levels".

Yeah, I know, I'm a noob, but I'd really rather kick butt than trying to avoid the teleport blocks all day long.

-Dreamer

@NovaStar: Funnily? :p

[snzspeed]

tests and hotels are equal to TSF

[NovaStar]

@Dreamer: ...whatever.

[White Rabbit]

Hotels are fun!
http://xs314.xs.to/xs314/07160/wrmountainhotel.png (http://xs.to)

But it was surprising to see the hotel get filled up incredibly fast. All I had to do was put 'hotel' in the server name, and people flocked to it. There were no other hotels online at the time, but plenty of non-hotel servers...

[Nimrod]

There should be pinging server named "Get latest patches and tilesets from www.jazz2online.com!" and next to it "People like battle and CTF games. Hotels are boring.". It would work.


That idea was done a while ago, like a year or two ago and it was complained about a fair bit and was eventually dropped. I still do have the resources to manually insert a game entry in the list server which will stay there and always ping. But I am against the idea unless a vast majority of the community would like it done.

Though it would be easier if level makers maybe put a link in their levels, eg "Haunted House by So and So. Download this and other levels at jazz2online.com" Word of mouth by JJ2 players playing is the easist and best bet, Jazz2online has tons of content so most JJ2 players will be back once they have visited.

[White Rabbit]

That idea was done a while ago, like a year or two ago and it was complained about a fair bit and was eventually dropped. I still do have the resources to manually insert a game entry in the list server which will stay there and always ping.


Why did people complain?

[Nimrod]

Why did people complain?

Apprantly it was annoying, always there and pinging. Oh and apprantly I was overstepping my mark as a List Server Admin.

[White Rabbit]

'THIS LEVEL IS NOT GOOD IDIOTS'
Firesword then got banned by the host in the ensuing hilarity. :D

[Grytolle]

[...] All I had to do was put 'hotel' in the server name, and people flocked to it. There were no other hotels online at the time, but plenty of non-hotel servers...Well, the F9-list is rather clear about the all noobs thing :O

[FireSworD]

The solution to this problem is simply to beat them at their own game and make our own 'hotels'. ;)

It's fun actually.

[Birdie]

I think that would just encourage them as it would show them hotels can be better, and they would want to be in charge of one. Of course the outcome of their hotels would still be the same though

[Murderbeam]

I think that would just encourage them as it would show them hotels can be better, and they would want to be in charge of one. Of course the outcome of their hotels would still be the same though

That last part is "Newbist"

All they need to do is learn.

[FireSworD]

Well it's worth a try, and I'd rather have good hotels than the ones that have no gameplay anyway. Probably ones designed specifically to urge them on other more serious gametypes.

And no, you don't understand murderbeam, once newbies are introduced to theese type hotels they will become accustomed to them at the point which they will not like playing anything other than them. My suggestion helps even theese type of players.

[Sucer]

Hotels should be banned with the exeption of battle or CTF levels made with a hotel tileset.
Many new players might think that hotels=jj2 and therefore jj2=pure (-). This is very bad for the development of the community. If in the future we want to see a WC which has more than four clans, we should start fighting for the next generation.
Special thanks to FireSword who realized this "problem" and has already taken action by hosting battle and CTF stuff for the newcomers. Many of the newcomers might notice that jj2 is a gr8 game afterall after playing some real games, not just stupid hotels.

I hope we'll get many new players:P

[Violet CLM]

Well it's worth a try, and I'd rather have good hotels than the ones that have no gameplay anyway. Probably ones designed specifically to urge them on other more serious gametypes.

I was able to keep a straight face for this thread up until "more serious gametypes." :(

[FireSworD]

And I suppose you have superior opinion you'd like to tell?

Otherwise that comment means nothing to me without anything to back it up.

[EvilMike]

The solution to this problem is simply to beat them at their own game and make our own 'hotels'. ;)

It's fun actually.

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=7061

Fun while it lasted... for everyone but the host, at least.

[Sucer]

[QUOTE=EvilMike;402297]http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=7061
QUOTE]

:( You made a hotel?:( Well nvm

... I will begin my quest to fight the cancer of jj2. I will not rest until I've gathered at least three hotel people and made them real jj2 players..

[FireSworD]

Hahaha yeah, that hotel was great. I remember mike closed early once because too many players were demanding access to the store.

Great times...


By the way, I have no intent of killing off hotels indefinitely as some of you misinterperet me. I started this topic to rid of an absoloutely real problem, and if you are an active player like me, you will see it as well. You can choose to ignore the problem or try to fix it. This is not about strong opinions, this is solid fact.

[Stijn]

And I suppose you have superior opinion you'd like to tell?
What's the problem here? It's pretty obvious that you consider your opinion that hotels are an inferior gametype superior too.

[cooba]

I will begin my quest to fight the cancer of jj2. I will not rest until I've gathered at least three hotel people and made them real jj2 players..Have fun doing what P4ul had been doing since June until November.

Plus, the only ones who became "converted" are Maximus and Slayer<!--, and I figure that it's not really the best thing-->.

[Michael]

I agree with FS.
I also hate the test levels, period.

Tests are a stupid (and unfortunatly also addictive) waste of time, they give you nothing more than a little bit a sense of accomplishment (that also comes on the price of wasting a few minutes of your life pointlessly), and they give you unneeded coordination that you don't use later in battle levels or anything.
Makes me really sad...

[FireSworD]

Lately I've been seeing progress. There are considerably less gameplayless hotels being hosted and more battle. My only suggestion now is the active players here reading this post should put more effort into hosting other gametypes such as assault and assassination to name a couple as those are somewhat exclusive to JDC or other events. If they complain by asking "test or hotel plz" just ignore it.

[Joizy]

Ooooww No I can't stand that peaple are hating hotels! I LOVE them ^^... And NO I'm no newbie who said that. I was playing Jazz 2 years ago. But time changed, I can't go on servers anymore and also can't host, so HOST THEM MORE, MORE, MORE... I'ts a good community for all. You'll teatch how to buy stuff and what you more want: a backgrond of a badroom or stuff... so think big about it ^^...
Btw: Does someone have the corectly size of a tileset (in paint) and that black-white stuff? Mail it to me: foksiegirl@hotmail.com

[Erik]

nice sig

[DoubleGJ]

You'll teatch how to buy stuff and what you more want: a backgrond of a badroom or stuff...
how useful
now that I've played hotels on Jazz2 I can go buy myself a new house
anyone know good places where I can find respawning money?

[BattleSpaz]

how useful
now that I've played hotels on Jazz2 I can go buy myself a new house
anyone know good places where I can find respawning money?

Get a hotel with a bank, shoot the bank wall 64 times and you got unlimited money. Or hax yourself to get jjnowall and copter ears.

[Nonomu198]

Ooooww No I can't stand that peaple are hating hotels! I LOVE them ^^... And NO I'm no newbie who said that. I was playing Jazz 2 years ago. But time changed, I can't go on servers anymore and also can't host, so HOST THEM MORE, MORE, MORE... I'ts a good community for all. You'll teatch how to buy stuff and what you more want: a backgrond of a badroom or stuff... so think big about it ^^...
Btw: Does someone have the corectly size of a tileset (in paint) and that black-white stuff? Mail it to me: foksiegirl@hotmail.com

N00B DETECDED!

[n00b]

N00B DETECDED!

God the irony here is delicious, it has to be fattening.

[Grytolle]

hahahahha

[Birdie]

Btw: Does someone have the corectly size of a tileset (in paint) and that black-white stuff?
Is it to make a hotel tileset?

[Neobeo]

While I agree that the current hotels are of a somewhat mediocre standard, I'd like to see this genre get re-established. It has pretty good potential, going by the trend of more "social" games lately.

[FireSworD]

As long as they are re-established as something with substance, I'm all for it. Obviously most of what players do outside of set matches is chat, and the hotels that contained gameplay (such as LL for example) were balanced well with chat and gameplay, so it was really fun and relaxing as you didn't have to put so much effort yet you could progress however far you wanted, and there was the aspect of challenge by bidding on auctions and choosing to compete with other players for money. The problem is it takes some planning and you can't host them whenever you'd like.

[ThunderPX]

I thought Ogi Island did a pretty good job of it. What happened to that, anyway?

N00B DETECDED!

IconGuy is amazing for all the wrong reasons.

[Cpp]

Hotels are fun!To hack. }>:r

Well much of my opinion on hotels has already been stated in earlier posts. The only hotel that I ever liked was Fooville. Unlike hotels, tests are a bit different story as they always have some form of gameplay present (eg. reach the goal). Eyecandy and level design do play some role in quality. TSF seems to have a lot of unskilled level makers, which is apparent from the quality of levels hosted. Skilled level makers will often create fine tests and such can be really fun and addictive. Personally I've always liked EvilMike's tests.

[Valco]

The name sounds silly, doesn't it?

It doesn't sound silly.
But I still see your point. Don't really agree, however.
I'm with WhiteRabbit on this! Hotels rock!!!
That's the reason I made one!

[Galavant]

BUT, in the other hand, if you want make good-addicting hotel, you would need good skills in JSC. I think, that making hotels is fine way to learn JSC. But it's true, that creators have often 'player skills' low.

[Dermo]

yeah I agree hotels suck. And I think you mean JCS not JSC. lawl.

[FireSworD]

Galavant and a few other are exceptions because I would consider his actual art.

As for the listserver business it appears it's back to the way it was; a weeks worth of hundreds (if not thousands) of tests and hotels and only a handful of ctf servers hosting overused ctf levels. The active people here really need to put more effort into hosting things like jailbreak, gold rush, (semi-decent) assault and quality battle levels instead of battle1.

[Birdie]

Unfortunately many of the active people here, (Such as myself) cannot host.

[Odin]

I lack the technical understanding to create a working server.

k

Also, dunno if this was posted or not, but hotels are a lot more popular than normal servers simply because of their depth, especially if the hotel in question is one with a lot of features (EvilMike's hotel, FooVille, Lifewater Lodge, and Hotael come to mind). Hotels also tend to be places for community gatherings, as well as help promote communities. The downside to hotels, as probably stated, is that there's a ton of really bad ones and a few really good ones.

A while back me and Sonyk plotted various ideas for hotels and hotel-like "community levels". As we planned, it was clear that for a successful hotel, we needed fresh material almost every day. Our hotel ideas never really took off the ground due to the simple fact that the demand of innovation of a hotel will never be met by two nerds sitting in their bedrooms trading level files for a hotel involving sprites ripped from 8-bit games.

Overall I am of the opinion that hotels are fun when done properly. However, as I and many others have stated, few hotels actually live up to this lofty standard. The people who make these hotels charged in full of bright ideas, but they all fell flat, not really due to boredom with their creation, but because they couldn't come up with anything else. It's like watching Sisyphus push up his rock up the slope, only to have it come crashing down.

tl;dr version: Hotels are fun because they're more involving, hotels suck because they're unoriginal, it's impossible to keep a hotel running for more than a month without going insane.

Also someone draw an Take On Me version of Jazz Jackrabbit to go along with the thread title.

[Grytolle]

I've yet to see a more addicting Battle level than battle1

[FireSworD]

In that case people should host battle1 remakes with awesome eyecandy.

[Dermo]

Or just instagib cuz that's the best. Anyway my battle1 file seems to be password protected and I don't feel like breaking the password. Can somebody just give me the password?