Something from me for a change...

[MoonBlazE]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/Khazeran2.jpg

As I won't be uploading anymore pictures to my DeviantArt account, I figured I could ask you guys for some critism once a while, no? :-) This is yet another scenery, featuring the one character of mine that you're familiar with, walking down some plains in a sunrise. It's a really simple picture with main focus on the atmosphere, so I'd like to know how you feel it turned out.

[n0]

Hrm... Looks luffy.

Some crits: The ground is too bright, should be more dusk/dawn shadows, especially on the lower parts of the hills. The shadows of the rocks should be longer, as well.

The other thing is that the rock on the horizon by the sun looks friggin huge. If it is so far away that the base of it is past the horizion, then it is hard to get the size right, but if that rock is about the same size as the others, then it should be drawn smaller.

Oh, and there should be more fireflies.

[Nonomu198]

This drawing is filled with koolness.

There are only two things that bothers me. That character wich could look alot better, if you only added some details.

And the sun. Some sun effects will realy help to the leafy-blurry-dizzy style wich rule the image.


Koolnesityoolneghnestym.

[FreeLance]

awesome.
i usually do not like the grass brush, but you use it well and pretty much make it your own, with the use of lighting/highlights, size, et cetera.
the character looks awesome - i gotta disagree with iconguy, i think it has a cool cell-shaded look to it. very smooth.
i also like the grass the color and brightness it is - but, if it was a darker bluish hue that would be cool too, and probably would go better with the sunset/sunrise lighting.
the pose of the character is also cool and well drawn - to have so much of the body hidden by clothing, you do well at having the parts shown line up as if there's an actual anatomical form beneath the clothing, so it doesn't look like you're just covering up an inability to draw anatomy, if you get what i mean.
awesome.

[Coppertop]

Overall, the image seems too bright to me. If it's sunrise (or sunset, either one) the sky should be darkening. The atmosphere should be more dusky, for lack of better words. The contrast between shadows and light would be much more pronounced as well.

The character could use a little more detail - folds in the cloth, etc.

Other than that, I like it :)

[Radium]

In order to be original, I am going to state my opinions in the form of a comic.

http://foxmage.com/Blazecrit.jpg

[Doubble Dutch]

Dear lord! Even the criticism here is art! How can a girl compete with that.

I fully endorse all pictures here as brilliant as I don't know any better.

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

Radium, you're amazing.

[MoonBlazE]

Another, following Radium's advice (I think... Well, hope). Adding thumbnails to reduce the thread page's loading time:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/Charsheet-Fright-TB.jpg
Thumbnail - Click to View (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/?action=view&current=Charsheet-Fright.jpg)

The lights come from below (the banshee fog) and a slightly weaker source of light coming from the frosty... blue magic. And I drew a woman, LAUGH AT ME FOR TRYING.

[Nonomu198]

In order to be original, I am going to state my opinions in the form of a comic.

Hellpfull. Thanx.

I dont wanna be mean, but the light (wen.. the... umm... you? holds the flashlight) is not brighter with more light near it..... read Hitches sig sometimes.:rolleyes:

EDIT:


Oh right, the new drawing. If the light comes from the fog, and you see it is strong eanogh to light the front b(lo)ody, why is the back all shady? Or is it jost the DemonWolfs (wht the... its a curse? wutever. Il say butt ;-; )? XD

The light from te orb thing should be blue, no? and dim...... I think. It looks like continuation to the fog light. How did the light came to the face? The breast is blocking it.. and I cant see the horns!... And kool fog-clothes thing. nice. But the hands are not.

[MoonBlazE]

If the light comes from the fog, and you see it is strong eanogh to light the front b(lo)ody, why is the back all shady? Or is it jost the DemonWolfs (wht the... its a curse? wutever. Il say butt ;-; )? XD

xD The butt thing was me forgetting to cut the shading there. When I do shade, I usually use a larger pen for smoother shading then use a smooth eraser to shorten it.

But the fog isn't flag, e.g. if you've seen a ghostly scene, you may recon there being fog all over the place... And this fog apparently glows. D:

[Radium]

I'm not sure I understood everything Icon said, but I think I agree with him.

[Radium]

I like the foreground grass, but it's a little bit strange that it goes flat around where she's standing. If it's supposed to be trampled looking like it's on a path, then the grass near her foot should be laying more sideways, and maybe have a bit of texturing on the ground. If it's just a lack of detail from being farther away, why is the back of the hill textured?

The biggest problem, IMO, is that you still seem to have light affecting each object differently. The background hills are all affected by the yellowish-white light from the sun, but the foreground is lighted by some white light that is behind the viewer and a bit to the left. Like I've said before, having light affect all objects the same way helps tie a drawing together. It's likely that you put the shadow behind her out of habit, but you have to start paying conscious attention to things like that.

The main light source in the drawing is the sun, which would cast a sharp, yellow-white light on her back (since it's a relatively cloudless, happy day), and the secondary source is the light scattered by the clouds and grass, which would illuminate the rest of her so the unlit parts aren't entirely dark. If you want a good read about how light works, I highly reccomend "Digital Lighting and Rendering" by Jeremy Birn. It's about 3D lighting and animation, but it's always nice to understand the mechanics and lingo.

Anyway, other than that I have a few anatomical quarrels. Mainly, you drew way too many lines on things that wouldn't be accented that sharply (cleavage, collarbone, abs). There's no concrete rules associated with when to draw lines and when not to, but when making "toon renderers" (http://vidar.gimp.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/aatoon.png) for 3D graphics, the general guideline is that bends that are more than 45 degrees get a line. Consider that since she's presumably covered with fur, a lot of things that might be 45 degree bends on humans will be a bit smoothed over.

Instead, try use shading to show details. Something that I like to do is, after I put down the flat colors, move my sketch layer over it (and set it to "multiply" if it's raster). This way I can see everything I marked in the sketch and base my shading off it without necessarily drawing a sharp line.

[Dermo]

This is the first time i've ever bothered to check this forum and right now I find it so amazing that at this point, I'm going to never try drawing anything in my life, ever again.

[Doubble Dutch]

*Exactly* my feelings on the matter.

[FreeFull]

It works reverse for me, I'm going to draw until I will reach these standards or even get better.

[Radium]

*high fives FreeFull*

[MoonBlazE]

I like the foreground grass, but it's a little bit strange that it goes flat around where she's standing. If it's supposed to be trampled looking like it's on a path, then the grass near her foot should be laying more sideways, and maybe have a bit of texturing on the ground. If it's just a lack of detail from being farther away, why is the back of the hill textured?

I'm not really sure on how to draw grass in such detail, e.g. most pictures only draws one "flat" layer of grass and then they simply stop putting detail into it. Most of the tutorials I found followed that concept as well. I usually get away by just using the grass looking brush but in this case it wasn't sufficient.

Thanks for the rest of the critique though, I realized a few mistakes from it. \o/

[MoonBlazE]

After drawing that sexy BR (-) in OC with you guys in OC, I got inspired to do another female:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/Earthquake.jpg

She's casting an earthquake spell. I tried to get the focus right this time (including the shadows)! What'd you think?

[Stijn]

Firs thing that comes to mind: Sure you meant "RUBMLE" and not "RUMBLE"?

[FreeFull]

Rubmle reminds me of someone puking ...

[Strato]

I'll give a quick few comments.

Your pose seems to not match the intensity of the spell. I think it'd be neat to see a more dynamic thing, like slamming their fist into the ground or something. This is more of a "catch a firefly, then let it go" type of deal. Of course, that could be a part of the composition too.

And don't hide hands behind spell effects. To most people it looks cool, to me it looks like your trying to cover up for mistakes. And judging from how those fingers look, I'm inclined to actually beleive that too.

The fissure doesn't look all that fissurey. You need to have ripples and rises, like a sine wave. But you also have to show that there was resistance. Some of the sides kinda curve and are soft. Instead go for angles and hard attacks. There is also something strange about it..I can't visualize the fissure. To me it looks like she's casting a mud beam spell. It's like an optical illusion. Just a funny observation.

Lastly, spellcheck.

Good drawing besides these points though.

[MoonBlazE]

Lol rubmle, :X that's what I get for working past midnight till morning.

I didn't really think the fingers looked bad, your monitor might be a little bright (or mine a little dark) if you can't see the hand's shape from the spell effect. I'll keep that in mind though and try to use less light in the future.

Thanks for the advices though, I <3 them.

[Strato]

Well, your finger lengths are all a bit off. His pinky looks like it's the longest one.

[FreeFull]

Well, your finger lengths are all a bit off. His pinky looks like it's the longest one.

Her. And yes, they are a bit off.

[Strato]

Oh right. Breasts.

[FreeFull]

Now here goes another thing. Its hard to say its a female and not a male. The face could be a bit longer. If you draw perspective, try to draw is properly and use your imagination.

[Radium]

His pinky looks like it's the longest one.Aww, FF got this before I could. But yeah, I think this comment brings up two things that need work =P.

You have some problems with making things look female, at least judging from this picture and that Blackraptor one in OC that I do not want to remember - though the pic for Dal looks okay. You need to remember to give female characters wider hips (at least equal to their ribcage width), less upper-body muscles, and an overall smoother and curvier form. And less of a chin; she looks kind of like Jay Leno.

Also, the secret to making shattering spell effects look awesome is to have little bits of rock mid-air or falling into the pit. Rock rarely breaks that cleanly, and having things mid-air gives cues to the speed or intensity to which something is moving.

[Strato]

Actually, on top of that, the whole hand is flipped incorrectly. The thumb is on the wrong side.

Edit : I think. It's hard as hell to tell with that spell effect over it.

[MoonBlazE]

Thanks for the tips Radium, I'll just keep trying until I get them woman right, even if it means pulling you into OC for more of my sexy female drawing. =)

[FreeFull]

Looking at your own hand should give you the idea what should be the finger lengths (except if your hand is deformed, look at Wikipedia pictures if that's the case).

[Strato]

What if MB has no hands at all?

[MoonBlazE]

Hehe. I realize that the hand could have been done better, aaand I did look it up after Strato first said it. The finger lengths don't match exactly as it should. After every picture I have done I take a second look sometime after and first then realize the mistakes. You might say "look at a hand and draw it" but it's easier said than done, it's also very rude the way you picked to say it Freefull.

Just as you have defination for good and bad art, I have definations for good and bad critique as well. The two above comments may have been meant to be witty but in case you didn't notice this is a serious thread and I'm going to have to ask you to not to troll it.

[Radium]

After every picture I have done I take a second look sometime after and first then realize the mistakes.The typical solution is to sketch it, put it away for a day or so, then go back to it and correct any errors you notice. However, a neat trick if you don't have that kind of time (such as, huge project due in one day) is to mirror the image (or look at it in a mirror, if you draw by dragging brittle stones across tree carcasses). Over the course of drawing you become accustomed to errors, but they'll become apparent if you look at the picture from a new direction.

[Strato]

My apologies MB.

[FreeFull]

Sorry MB, I didn't meant to make it sound rude.

[MoonBlazE]

What font was it you used in that comic, Radium?

[Radium]

What font was it you used in that comic, Radium?BlamBot Pro (http://blambot.com/fonts.shtml)- it's one of their pay fonts, though (it seems like most the lowercase lettering ones are).

[Lavitz]

looks sweet

[Simperin' Fool]

The picture of bat-rabbit-thing without the background is made of pure awesome. He should have actual hips, though; it sorta looks like the legs are just sticking out of the body, like on a lizard, and both legs together look like they're wider than the pelvis itself.

[Unhit]

Nagrand :D (@ the first pic)

[MoonBlazE]

I was really looking for critique on the above picture. No one has anything to add?

[FreeFull]

Its great.

[Dermo]

Incredible

[NovaStar]

Fascinating

[Black Ninja]

I really really like the above picture. I'm no art critic, but I still give it two thumbs up. ;p

[Radium]

I agree with Free Full. There, now that compliments are out of the way I can be purely negative =D

First of all, regarding hands, I recommend knuckles. The hands, especially the girl's right hand (as in, her right) seem to suffer from a lack of bones. You can usually get away with skipping a few, but try to at least define the joints that connect the palm of the hand to the fingers.

Oh, good job on making her recognizably female, though =P. Her her hip shape looks a bit wrong (too thin?), but it's hard to tell since it's dark and the picture pretty much ends there.

Also, her horns don't look even. By the looks of it, one is coming out of the back of her head and one is coming out of the left side. Realistically, since the left side of her head is in front of the guy's face, it seems like her left horn should be in front of his face, too. That or her head should be more tilted towards the "camera".

On the guy, this is super-minor but I think his bicep should be bulging a bit more with his arm bent like that. It's almost flat there, despite lifting his forearm up. Also, his deltoid looks tensed even though it's not doing much of anything.

Oh, and his hair. How does his ear fit into that? It looks like it was just put overtop the hair.

Critical enough? ;D

[Dermo]

in that case, you suck at drawing, get a life.

[DoubleGJ]

I'd shift the picture's focus to the right a bit. Also, clouds' perspective is weird, like they were spinning around or something, and even if that's planned it isn't pulled out good.

[MoonBlazE]

The clouds are just layered to show the distance, the golden ratio lies just below them. If you can point out specifically how you think it could be improved it would help though, DoubleGJ.

And Radium, thanks a lot. The hands are better than what they usually are but at this point it's hard to tell how to improve them on my own so I really appreciate you pointing it out to me. Your advise has been a great help and hopefully you notice me learning from it? :P So yeah I will keep working out from your great critique. As for the horns, well yeah I had a problem placing them without getting them into his face, and the rest of the character issues are how they designed them really (especially his hair ;)).

To the rest of you, thanks for the compliments. I appreciate it as well. :D

[Dermo]

Dang Critics end up killling everything. Just shuddup it's a great picture. We don't need idiots (-)ing up somebody's drawing they probably spent forever on.

[Radium]

Dang Critics end up killling everything. Just shuddup it's a great picture. We don't need idiots (-)ing up somebody's drawing they probably spent forever on.Have you even read MoonBlaze's posts in this thread? D= When you don't have critics, you end up drawing stuff like is in my sig.

[Dermo]

I don't mind your signature. It's just that the critics could take an authentic 100% true book filled with the answers to all of anything and call it bull(-).

[MoonBlazE]

Without criticism, this wouldn’t be much of a discussion and therefore belong on some art gallery instead. When I started this thread, it was to ask for critique to become a better artist. You can learn a lot from your mistakes! By having people point out mistakes in my art - no matter how beautiful it may seem to the inexperienced viewer - I learn how to make it better and therefore improve.

It's becoming difficult for me to find helpful places for critique, when you surpass the traditional level of art and start grasping out for professionalism, then the critiquer also needs a certain level of knowledge on how to setup a scenery or how the atomy of a figure should be. For example, if I drew a muscular leg, would you be able to tell if it’s correct without knowing the muscle structure first?

I really appreciate the critique that people give. Even if it's not professional or just personal opinion, it still gives me a general idea of how anyone would look at the picture (because of DoubleGJ's comment, I am going to try and find a tutorial on painting clouds better, for example).

[ShadeJackrabbit]

MoonBlaze has got a point. One that I completely agree with. If anyone read both versions of the first chapter of Tale of the Psi, it's all thanks to Radium's critique that it's now 40 times better. I always want critique, so I can't see anything wrong with critiquing.

That being said, ignoring all the posts about how the author loves all the critique and then claiming that the critic isn't being nice....

[DoubleGJ]

The clouds are just layered to show the distance, the golden ratio lies just below them. If you can point out specifically how you think it could be improved it would help though, DoubleGJ.
Basically, I think they would look much more natural if you stuck to giving them a flat perspective or just slightly bent. What helps determine distance is not really the curve in which clouds are drawn, but rather how strongly they fade into horizon. Even the warp horizon effect in JJ2 can be an example.

[MoonBlazE]

This one was rather experimental, so don't hold back your opinions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/freedomthumb.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1770/freedomfullnf3.jpg)
(Thumbnail, click for full size)

[Black Ninja]

Something about the pinky finger bothers me. Not sure what.

Other than that, I love the above image.

[n00b]

Before Radium comes in and murders the picture with his helpful constructive crit:
The piece is rather good, however the angle keeps making me feel theres something off about the overall pose when there isn't anything wrong in general at all with it. It's distracting me from the overall art piece, but it's probably just me. Aside from that I love it as well.

[Radium]

It's a nice picture, but first I want to talk about lens flare, and when you shouldn't use it - such as in this picture.
A lens flare requires you to be looking directly at a bright light or the light to be slightly off to the side. You could've passed a lens flare off on the Enoki picture, or even maybe the first one in this thread (maybe), but here there's just not enough of a light source. Even though the picture gets pure white up in the corner, the rest of it is bright enough for the sun to not seem that bright by comparison.
Such an even spread of bright lighting is usually due to a bright day with lots of cloud cover (which you drew). However, that many clouds would probably block any lens flare business.

Anyway, you understand how to do clothing well enough. And you mostly get anatomy by now, except for one thing: gastrocnemius. This is the third criticism today in which I've used the word gastrocnemius, so I'm very tired of the word. Gastrocnemius gastrocnemius gastrocnemius. This guy's gastrocnemius is expecially important since he's two-legged and digitigrade, meaning each one is probably constantly bearing at least 60 pounds. Digitigrade things need pretty powerful gastrocnemii.

My main criticism, though, is that there's nothing really tying the picture together. The character is standing there with all his limbs spread, I presume because it's a windy day and that feels awesome when in a loin cloth. He's looking at something to his right, maybe his hand. There are rocks behind him, looming.
Your first picture was really great, composition wise. Everything was casting shadows from a single light source, it was heavily obedient to the "rule of thirds", it had a definite path for your eye to follow, and the lighting color tinted everything, making the grass a bit paler green, the character a little bit purple, and his cloak a bold red (not that all those things are important, but they all worked together great). Here, everything is very well lit, the character is almost centered and isn't really "doing" anything (other than probably enjoying the wind), and the background is just kind of "there". The viewer is left with a lot of questions about what's going on, but doesn't really care enough to ask. Your rendering is great, but alone it's not enough to make it a great picture.

Oh, and nobody will notice this because the character is so obvious, but those rocks look amazing. How did you do them?

[MoonBlazE]

Could you tell me what's wrong with her lips and help me fix them? I used several tutorials and I still think they look like crap. ;|

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/Lumaria.jpg

[DoubleGJ]

There's no curve like that on the bottom lip, it should be smooth. Also, I think the whole lips are slightly too big overall.

[Monolith]

Yes, the lower lip shouldn't curve up toward the mouth. Otherwise it seems like you have the right idea, but it's exaggerated. Reduce the maximum distance between the three lip lines to make it more subtle.

[MoonBlazE]

Thanks a ton. That helped.

[Bboy Type7]

the cg isn't bad. i dislike the sky's texture, kinda sloppy. make a better one? the grass is kinda off. i don't really like the shading on the coat of the character either. kinda pillow shaded and it looks hella ugly. just fix it up y'all

[MoonBlazE]

Can someone translate what the above poster just said? I don't really understand it.

[Radium]

Can someone translate what the above poster just said? I don't really understand it.He read the first post. He did not like the texture on the sky or grass you drew last year, nor the shading on the character's cloak (as it seems like you just made the inside a different color from the edges, often referred to as "pillow shading").

[Nonomu198]

Seriously, even my first posts in this thread are easier to understand.

[Bboy Type7]

This one was rather experimental, so don't hold back your opinions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/Moonblaze/freedomthumb.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1770/freedomfullnf3.jpg)
(Thumbnail, click for full size)

This one's better. However, the grass looks way too shiny like plastic. looks like you had a fight with the blur tool or the gradient tool. overall, looks good. i'd fix the shading on the pants too.

[MoonBlazE]

Thank you, Radium.

Bboy, he doesn't even wear pants. You can stop trying to give criticism now.

[Radium]

His statement makes sense to me, if it is a bit... late?

[Nonomu198]

Criticizing old art is not smart.
Criticizing old art is not smart.
Criticizing old art is not smart.

[Sonyk]

don't feed the troll

[Bboy Type7]

The point of posting art is to get feedback. If you don't want feedback, then what's the point of starting this thread? If you want critiques or feedback, then post elsewhere. The forum is already a sad excuse.

[n00b]

Some people tend to get mad when others make fun of Bboy saying he doesn't deserve it. I'd like to submit his posts in this thread as a glowing example of why he oh so totally does.

[MoonBlazE]

The point of posting art is to get feedback. If you don't want feedback, then what's the point of starting this thread? If you want critiques or feedback, then post elsewhere. The forum is already a sad excuse.
It's the same thing as reviewing your math skills from fourth grade. Obviously, you have gotten better at math since then.

If you paid any attention to the posting dates, you might notice the art you criticized is almost a year old. That’s a year of drawing experience. Everything you pointed out I already knew, therefore your posting is rather useless and to some extend, annoying.

I suggest you read the whole thread next time and stop trying to lead on a discussion because it simply isn’t wanted.

[Puffie40]

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