jazz community using different versions?

[kangaroo]

Something I find strange is that people who still play jazz call themselves a community and still use different versions of the game. You can easily see that different versions of jazz are being hosted on the servers. The servers should be changed so that it only supports one version of jazz and that's the version everyone has to use. It would make most sense for the version to be 1.24 since that is the newest one.

[Birdie]

That would just cause a split in the community, and if you want to join another server of another version just use a version editor. also, 1.23 > 1.24

[NovaStar]

1.23 is the most used and easily found version, TSF... not so much. Like Birdie said, it'd split the community, and wouldn't do much to help in any way.

[FireSworD]

Wrong. The TSF community (if you want to even call it that) is far larger and more active than 1.23.

[Dermo]

I wouldn't say "larger" but there is a lot of 1.24 servers. The thing is TEC can easily enable you to join 1.23 servers. Something to host 1.23 using 1.24 would be really really really cool though.

[sonicnathan 1]

Something I find strange is that people who still play jazz call themselves a community and still use different versions of the game. You can easily see that different versions of jazz are being hosted on the servers. The servers should be changed so that it only supports one version of jazz and that's the version everyone has to use. It would make most sense for the version to be 1.24 since that is the newest one. I don' think so. TSF is hard to find and telling people that they can't join the comunity just because they don't have TSF is wrong. I think it should be the way it should be now. Just let people use whatever version they use.

[kangaroo]

TSF is hard to find? Once again, this site's anti-piracy stance is hurting jazz and its community. It would be so easy letting people know where to get the correct version to play online. Then everyone will have the same version and it wouldn't "split" the community. Take a look at all the other games out there that are played online. Do you see games of different versions being hosted?

[Birdie]

Those 'Other Games' Don't list multiple servers of different versions. It prevents compatibility issues.

[Tik]

TSF is hard to find? Once again, this site's anti-piracy stance is hurting jazz and its community. It would be so easy letting people know where to get the correct version to play online. Then everyone will have the same version and it wouldn't "split" the community. Take a look at all the other games out there that are played online. Do you see games of different versions being hosted?

While I tend to agree, the owners of this site are wise not to endorse illegal activities for obvious reasons. The fact of the matter is that this site doesn't even need to host full copies of any version of the game in order for people to find it on their own. This should be common knowledge.

As for the split in the community, I'm not very active on JJ2 obviously but the TSF-based community and the 1.23-based communities are almost already separate simply based on location and time zone. If we were ever to unify the two it would be with a newer upgrade such as 1.25. And even then I doubt that support for 1.23 and TSF and even 1.21 would cease. Cutting them off would just worsen any 'split' anyway. And as has been said, there are tools for someone on one version to play against someone on another.

[Cpp]

While TSF may be more active recently, it is 1.23 that has always had the most skilled players around (imo), who are not as active or are not active at all. Personally I use both jj2 versions. You can easily join a server that of another version by using a version editor as stated some posts above. TSF players can always play in 1.23 servers, but 1.23 users can't always join 1.24 servers due to some compatibility issues. Some recent servers will allow both versions to join.

[Jerrythabest]

the only reason there are more TSF servers is because TSF doesn't need a patch. If you count 1.20 servers as 1.23 things would be equal.

[Grytolle]

The majority of active 1.23 players are European, so I wouldn't say the timezones makes that much of a split.

[TheKax]

Saying that someone who has TSF doesn't belong to Jazz fans, or someone with 1.23 Isn't Jazzer. All Jazz versions are Jazz Jackrabbit games. It would be unfair to not to let be Jazzer because of his version. It'd split the community to many little pieces.

I think the players can call them as a one community of Jazz gamers, whatever version they have. Actually, if the community would use only one version, there would be two consequences:
1. There would be like 5 different jazz communities
2. The players with the version with least players would possibly stop playing, as they would think the community try to bring em down.

[Torkell]

TSF is hard to find? Once again, this site's anti-piracy stance is hurting jazz and its community. It would be so easy letting people know where to get the correct version to play online. Then everyone will have the same version and it wouldn't "split" the community. Take a look at all the other games out there that are played online. Do you see games of different versions being hosted?

If I remember rightly, the "no warez" policy is actually laid down by the webhost.

And to answer your second question, yes. There's two very common versions of the DE mutator for Unreal Tournament, and they aren't compatible with each other. And the only way to find out if the server has the same version as you is to try to connect to it.

[Jerrythabest]

Then JJ2 does that better, as it doesn't allow you to connect to it if it has a different version ;p It's 'grayed out' on the list already.

[Dermo]

Now an impossible to do thing would be to make a server in the list called "updater" and make it so when a 1.20 user tries to join it, it sends them the patch to their desktop (and possibly executes it) and modifies their registry with the list server patch so the 1.23 patch will know where to find 1.20 and that would be really cool if the patch also auto-executed.

[Jerrythabest]

We *could* make a program that scans the list for 1.20 servers and joins them to send the message to update their JJ2 to 1.23.

[FreeFull]

So, what about making one?

[Dermo]

well you get to work

[Grytolle]

Now an impossible to do thing would be to make a server in the list called "updater" and make it so when a 1.20 user tries to join it, it sends them the patch to their desktop (and possibly executes it) and modifies their registry with the list server patch so the 1.23 patch will know where to find 1.20 and that would be really cool if the patch also auto-executed.That wouldn't be impossible. We could even force a patch upgrade on them using hax. It's just a tad unethical, that's all.

[Torkell]

Not to mention illegal as well.

[kangaroo]

While I tend to agree, the owners of this site are wise not to endorse illegal activities for obvious reasons. The fact of the matter is that this site doesn't even need to host full copies of any version of the game in order for people to find it on their own. This should be common knowledge.

As for the split in the community, I'm not very active on JJ2 obviously but the TSF-based community and the 1.23-based communities are almost already separate simply based on location and time zone. If we were ever to unify the two it would be with a newer upgrade such as 1.25. And even then I doubt that support for 1.23 and TSF and even 1.21 would cease. Cutting them off would just worsen any 'split' anyway. And as has been said, there are tools for someone on one version to play against someone on another.

What obvious reasons? You really think epic is going to send lawyers after this site for some old game they no longer support and won't even host their own servers for? And I doubt the webhost even knows what jazz jackrabbit is. It SHOULD be common knowledge for people know where to find a certain version of the game. But I'm hearing things like "some people can't find this version of jazz so they would be split from the community". It is a fact that at this point, everyone has access to 1.23 and 1.24. Don't use this site's pointless "warez policy" to deny it. I don't why people would be so determined to stick to their own version. Do you 1.23 jazzers feel so proud of using 1.23 that it would be too much to ask of you to make a few clicks to upgrade to 1.24? If you had to update to play online, would you quit jazz and then cry in the corner because the community is "trying to bring you down"? As for 1.25, it's been anticipated for a long time and may never happen because you can't see the source code. If 1.23 jazzers have to update to 1.25, then that means they'll have everything 1.24 jazzers have, so they might as well update to 1.24 now.

Now an impossible to do thing would be to make a server in the list called "updater" and make it so when a 1.20 user tries to join it, it sends them the patch to their desktop (and possibly executes it) and modifies their registry with the list server patch so the 1.23 patch will know where to find 1.20 and that would be really cool if the patch also auto-executed.

Many games actually do automatically patch you to latest version everyone else is using in order for you to play online. But even if this is a good idea to encourage everyone to change to a single version, it shouldn't be necessary. People shouldn't be too lazy to make a few clicks so that they have the correct version to play online.

[FreeFull]

Many games actually do automatically patch you to latest version everyone else is using in order for you to play online. But even if this is a good idea to encourage everyone to change to a single version, it shouldn't be necessary. People shouldn't be too lazy to make a few clicks so that they have the correct version to play online.

What about the people who don't know about the patch?

[Cheese]

You're just jealous because you don't have 1.23.

[Birdie]

I don't why people would be so determined to stick to their own version. Do you 1.23 jazzers feel so proud of using 1.23 that it would be too much to ask of you to make a few clicks to upgrade to 1.24?

Well, the moral implications for one.
Also, ++Cheese. :<!---->)

[ShadeJackrabbit]

What obvious reasons? You really think epic is going to send lawyers after this site for some old game they no longer support and won't even host their own servers for? And I doubt the webhost even knows what jazz jackrabbit is. It SHOULD be common knowledge for people know where to find a certain version of the game. But I'm hearing things like "some people can't find this version of jazz so they would be split from the community".
They very well might. Jazz Jackrabbit is their copyright and they have every right to prevent or endorse it's distribution. I don't like it, and you don't need to, but it's the law. If they want to make a JJ2 on Xbox Live Arcade, do you think people will buy it again, or download the "legal because of different laws" version? (This sounds kinda weird, but I'm saying if the laws were different Epic could lose lot's of money.)

It is a fact that at this point, everyone has access to 1.23 and 1.24. Don't use this site's pointless "warez policy" to deny it.
NOT TRUE. If you don't have hi-speed, it takes forever to download either. Plus, it's illegal, and some people still have something called a conscience, ya know?:mad:

I don't why people would be so determined to stick to their own version.
Because we (some) still have morals, and won't throw them away so easily.

Do you 1.23 jazzers feel so proud of using 1.23 that it would be too much to ask of you to make a few clicks to upgrade to 1.24? If you had to update to play online, would you quit jazz and then cry in the corner because the community is "trying to bring you down"?
Well, I don't play online, but yeah, I probably would.

As for 1.25, it's been anticipated for a long time and may never happen because you can't see the source code. If 1.23 jazzers have to update to 1.25, then that means they'll have everything 1.24 jazzers have, so they might as well update to 1.24 now.
This is where I thought: "Shut up and do research." 1.25 would make fixes to 1.23 AND 1.24, therefor being an actual different version than 1.24. 1.25 was never meant to be a "free" 1.24. Get your facts straight and then lay this (-) on us.:r

[Tik]

What obvious reasons? You really think epic is going to send lawyers after this site for some old game they no longer support and won't even host their own servers for? And I doubt the webhost even knows what jazz jackrabbit is.

As Torkell said, it is the webhost's policy, and it is a perfectly reasonable position. It does not matter that Epic would probably never spend their resources pursuing a tiny group of people distributing a game that was a market flop. The hosts would do well to deny service to us if they knew such things were going on. If they did not, then they too would be liable to Epic.

The administrators and managers of J2O have put in ridiculous amounts of time, energy, and money into this site. Yes, we all want new players and publicity for this game, but it is simply foolish to distribute the game freely here. They do it all for you without asking anything in return except to follow a few simple rules. If you, as an individual, choose to distribute the game illegally, then there's nothing the administrators here may do assuming that it is not connected with J2O. Moreover, your insistence is not going to help your cause, as I am certainly positive that this rule will not change.

[FQuist]

It doesn't need to be Epic to pursue illegal versions of JJ, any individual with a grudge could easily just show the host illegal activities to hurt the site.

(&lt;Tik3)

[Grytolle]

Okay so what's good with 1.24 except annoyingly large levels and an additional character who sucks even harder than Jazz does?

[Cataphract]

The license says:

Other than as provided specifically in this Agreement, You are not permitted
to copy or otherwise reproduce this Software; modify or prepare derivative
copies based on the Software; distribute copies of the Software by sale or
other transfer of ownership; rent, lease, or lend the Software; or to display
the Software publicly. You are expressly prohibited from transmitting this
Software electronically over the Internet or through any other media or to
any third party. YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO REVERSE ENGINEER, DECOMPILE OR
DISASSEMBLE THE SOFTWARE IN ANY WAY.


So this site (at least many of its download files) is, in fact, already committing copyright infringement.
It's just a matter of degree -- for instance, if jazz2 were still being sold, the mere distribution of a modified executable could hardly be argued to have caused sales loss.
The holier-than-thou "we won't do it because it is illegal" attitude should be abandoned and replaced with some common sense.
That said, while the current policy of this site certainly allows illegal activities, I wouldn't say it is immoral. In fact, I think it is a reasonable compromise between legality and the interests of the community.

[Stijn]

whining about why there's no warez on this site
Jack has a site, Jack puts illegal stuff on it, Jack's site gets closed down. Simple as that. Arguing further about that is quite pointless.

[Jerrythabest]

well you get to work

Well I could probably make such a bot in PHP in about three or four days or so, but it would be better if such a bot is just a normal program.

[kangaroo]

What about the people who don't know about the patch?

What about people right now who still don't know they need to patch their game to play online?


You're just jealous because you don't have 1.23.

Wrong. I have both versions.


NOT TRUE. If you don't have hi-speed, it takes forever to download either. Plus, it's illegal, and some people still have something called a conscience, ya know?

Leave your computer on overnight? Besides, there was a patch that actually changed 1.23 to 1.24 although i'm not sure what happened to it. I doubt it would be very hard to make another one.

Well, on public boards I never give anyone the link but on MSN, in TSF and 1.20 servers and in real life I'm spreading the links too ;p You are right, it's a little bit pointless to tell people they shouldn't pirate since the full version game is nowhere to be found (most of these online shopping sites offer the OEM versions instead of the registered version). I doubt if that's legal too.

lol, and you're lecturing me about moral conscience? I also find it funny how many people are bringing up the "moral issues" even though this site seems to put forth the idea that it doesn't care what you choose to do outside of it.

Well, I don't play online, but yeah, I probably would.

hopefully it's just you, but if there are really other people like this, i'd say good riddance.


This is where I thought: "Shut up and do research." 1.25 would make fixes to 1.23 AND 1.24, therefor being an actual different version than 1.24. 1.25 was never meant to be a "free" 1.24. Get your facts straight and then lay this (-) on us.

Someone said that 1.25 could be the unifying version of 1.23 and 1.24. If that was the case, then anyone who has 1.25 should have the same things regardless of what version they updated from. This is common sense for preventing compatibility issues.

As Torkell said, it is the webhost's policy, and it is a perfectly reasonable position. It does not matter that Epic would probably never spend their resources pursuing a tiny group of people distributing a game that was a market flop. The hosts would do well to deny service to us if they knew such things were going on. If they did not, then they too would be liable to Epic.

The administrators and managers of J2O have put in ridiculous amounts of time, energy, and money into this site. Yes, we all want new players and publicity for this game, but it is simply foolish to distribute the game freely here. They do it all for you without asking anything in return except to follow a few simple rules. If you, as an individual, choose to distribute the game illegally, then there's nothing the administrators here may do assuming that it is not connected with J2O. Moreover, your insistence is not going to help your cause, as I am certainly positive that this rule will not change.

Assuming that the host would even bother to check, the worst that would happen is the site would receive a "cease and desist" letter. But even if this site absolutely refuses to post a link, it does not change the fact that a line of text is easy to spread. There's PMs, IRC, and the game servers themselves.

Okay so what's good with 1.24 except annoyingly large levels and an additional character who sucks even harder than Jazz does?

It's not about what each version has and doesnt have. It's about getting everyone to use the same version. If adding a new character and a few new levels is all that it takes, then there shouldn't be anything to complain about.

So this site (at least many of its download files) is, in fact, already committing copyright infringement.
It's just a matter of degree -- for instance, if jazz2 were still being sold, the mere distribution of a modified executable could hardly be argued to have caused sales loss.
The holier-than-thou "we won't do it because it is illegal" attitude should be abandoned and replaced with some common sense.
That said, while the current policy of this site certainly allows illegal activities, I wouldn't say it is immoral. In fact, I think it is a reasonable compromise between legality and the interests of the community.

Exactly. I figured certain files on this site weren't legal anyways. And I bet nobody was even bother going to ask permission to use jazz content to make that machinima thing either. Also, i doubt buying jazz from some obscure shopping site or ebay is even going to put a penny in epic's pocket at this point.

[Dermo]

kangaroo does bring up some really good points. But i'm sorry we can't legally do anything of that sort. I would love to see that happen too but i'm afraid we can't. And yes I realize that it may not be legal but i dont see how it's immoral to do something like that. We're not illegally accessing somebody's pc

[ShadeJackrabbit]

I'm not going to argue any more, but you obviously don't understand very much about the game and it's history kangaroo.

[kangaroo]

I'm not going to argue any more, but you obviously don't understand very much about the game and it's history kangaroo.

What a useless statement. Anyways, since you don't even play online, this subject does not concern you and your opinion on it does not matter. Goodbye.

[sonicnathan 1]

What a useless statement. Anyways, since you don't even play online, this subject does not concern you and your opinion on it does not matter. Goodbye. This is a useless argument. And don't say that Shades statement is usless. Hes giving his opinion. It's not like your opinion is the only one that matters. Your not convincing everybody. Also the patch to change 1.23 to 1.24 was never released and it's illegal to download it.

[Grytolle]

While bringing up some nice points about the no-warez status of this site, I still must say that I find your attitude rather disgusting. If you had ever played JJ2 online for real, you would know what a blessing real bug fixes are, like the fix for death on flag or team chat sending to the correct teams. You think it's self written that everyone should play 1.24 while what I said before truly applies; there is nothing better with 1.24's Internet play, and regarding single player (which I admittedly don't give a (-) about); it only has one episode.

Also, since all programs are written for 1.23, since that's what most people play when playing seriously, I see no reason why I change to 1.24 would be a particularly good idea. (Yeah, I don't care that you for some weird reason don't like positive progress)

About the list server: shutting people out is just stupid. If you want to be able to play with players of all version, just use the Multi-version hack.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

it only has one episode.
Which has now been "converted" to 1.23.

[sonicnathan 1]

Thanks you Grytolle Though I don't think the flag bug should be fixed. It's dead usfull.

[Jerrythabest]

The flagbug is (-) annoying. It doesn't allow you to chat normally, which is very important in teamgames.

[cooba]

Grytolle meant the bug where a player retains the flag when he dies on the enemy base, not the message flood bug.

Both are annoying and I don't see how can they be at all useful :|

[sonicnathan 1]

The flag bug is usful for making instant death pits

[kangaroo]

Also the patch to change 1.23 to 1.24 was never released and it's illegal to download it.

-_-


While bringing up some nice points about the no-warez status of this site, I still must say that I find your attitude rather disgusting. If you had ever played JJ2 online for real, you would know what a blessing real bug fixes are, like the fix for death on flag or team chat sending to the correct teams. You think it's self written that everyone should play 1.24 while what I said before truly applies; there is nothing better with 1.24's Internet play, and regarding single player (which I admittedly don't give a (-) about); it only has one episode.

Also, since all programs are written for 1.23, since that's what most people play when playing seriously, I see no reason why I change to 1.24 would be a particularly good idea. (Yeah, I don't care that you for some weird reason don't like positive progress)

About the list server: shutting people out is just stupid. If you want to be able to play with players of all version, just use the Multi-version hack.

You may not like my attitude but it's frustrating to hear the same "legality" and "morality" arguments over and over again. And what does this topic have anything to do with bug fixes? When did I say I didn't want bug fixes? My point is that everyone should be using the same version. It doesn't even matter what version it is. The reason I mentioned 1.24 is because it is common sense for people to upgrade instead of downgrade. It does not matter if the changes are insignificant. I also doubt it would be very hard to make the same programs for 1.24 that 1.23 has. But even so, it wouldn't matter if the standard version was 1.23. Nobody would be shut out because I've already explained why it's so easy to change versions.

[sonicnathan 1]

-_-




You may not like my attitude but it's frustrating to hear the same "legality" and "morality" arguments over and over again. And what does this topic have anything to do with bug fixes? When did I say I didn't want bug fixes? My point is that everyone should be using the same version. It doesn't even matter what version it is. The reason I mentioned 1.24 is because it is common sense for people to upgrade instead of downgrade. It does not matter if the changes are insignificant. I also doubt it would be very hard to make the same programs for 1.24 that 1.23 has. But even so, it wouldn't matter if the standard version was 1.23. Nobody would be shut out because I've already explained why it's so easy to change versions.

TSF IS HARD TO FIND!!! IT"S ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD IT OR TO MAKE A PATCH TO CHANGE 1.23 TO 1.24! AND WE DON"T CARE! WERE NOT GOING TO UPGRADE JUST BECUASE YOU SAY SO! IN MY OPINION TSF IS HARDLY A UPGRADE! IT HAS NO NEW ONLINE CAPABILITY'S AND THE GAMEPLAY IS THE SAME ONLY YOU GET 1 NEW STUPID BORING EPISODE AND A CHARACTER THAT NOBODY PLAYS!!! I DON"T WANT THE SPLIT! EVERYBODY JUST PLAY WITH THE VERSION THAT WE GOT! JUST BECAUSE EVERYBODY DOESN"T HAVE THE SAME VERSION DOESN"T MEAN THAT THAT DOESN"T MAKE US A COMMUNITY! IT A COMMUNITY ABOUT JAZZ! NOT ABOUT WHAT VERSION WE HAVE AND WELL PLAY WHATEVER VERSION WE HAVE!

[Violet CLM]

So, um, the thing is, I'm not sure people do think of JJ2 as one unified community. The reason we have people who only play 1.23, and people who only play 1.24, is that these are decidedly different groups of people. We don't speak the same language. We're online at different times, and play different kinds of games, and put importance on different things. J2O is not a site for the TSF people, much as we might pretend it's for all JJ2. Does that need to be merged into one version?

[Grytolle]

kangaroo, when you said jj2 shouldn't be modified and that jj2 should be jj2 or something else equally amusingly stupid

[ThunderPX]

-_-




You may not like my attitude but it's frustrating to hear the same "legality" and "morality" arguments over and over again. And what does this topic have anything to do with bug fixes? When did I say I didn't want bug fixes? My point is that everyone should be using the same version. It doesn't even matter what version it is. The reason I mentioned 1.24 is because it is common sense for people to upgrade instead of downgrade. It does not matter if the changes are insignificant. I also doubt it would be very hard to make the same programs for 1.24 that 1.23 has. But even so, it wouldn't matter if the standard version was 1.23. Nobody would be shut out because I've already explained why it's so easy to change versions.

Whatever you may say, the administrators of this site choose not to allow warez mainly because their host doesn't allow it, and because they own this site, what they say goes. End of story.

[cooba]

My point is that everyone should be using the same version.I'm afraid this point is doomed to fail :rolleyes:

[sonicnathan 1]

I'm afraid this point is doomed to fail :rolleyes:

What do you think I've been telling him? Lol

[kangaroo]

The reason we have people who only play 1.23, and people who only play 1.24, is that these are decidedly different groups of people. We don't speak the same language. We're online at different times, and play different kinds of games, and put importance on different things.

There's nothing we can do about different languages and time-zones, but we can fix the differences in versions. I'm sure there are plenty of english-speakers who play 1.24, and many of them probably enjoy the same game types as those played in 1.23. The idea is to help increase interaction between the two sides as well as throughout the community. Otherwise, the only thing players have in common is the fact that they all use the same servers. I see many people interested in getting xfire support for jazz. But jazz has a small community as it is, and it certainly doesn't help if everyone appears not to be playing the same game. Why would xfire want to support an old game that has a loose community and whose players don't seem to have common interests?

Whatever you may say, the administrators of this site choose not to allow warez mainly because their host doesn't allow it, and because they own this site, what they say goes. End of story.

You can't honestly tell me that you think the host would even know that links to an old, unheard of game not being sold anywhere is considered "warez". When Dizzy hosted the game for his friend on the site or something like that, it didn't exactly show he believes there's any kind of a risk. And honestly, if Epic doesn't care about and won't support the game anymore, then why shouldn't they turn it over to the community? If they were ever to make/finish a sequel, it would only benefit them if more people had access to jj2.


I'm afraid this point is doomed to fail
Maybe it will fail, but you know what else will?. The machinima idea will fail. Even someone who happens to see it won't want to bother checking out a kid's game that's a bit more advanced than a super nintendo game. Also, Epic will NEVER hand over the source code to jazz, so anybody who still hopes to make a patch should just admit that they will fail. Trying to get xfire support for jazz is "doomed to fail", because they would never support a 2D sprite game that once ran on DOS. Or maybe you should try to avoid these threads altogether if you have nothing to discuss. Last time I checked, nobody was forcing you to read anything.

[Stijn]

You can't honestly tell me that you think the host would even know that links to an old, unheard of game not being sold anywhere is considered "warez". When Dizzy hosted the game for his friend on the site or something like that, it didn't exactly show he believes there's any kind of a risk.
I think you missed the "end of story" part ;)

And honestly, if Epic doesn't care about and won't support the game anymore, then why shouldn't they turn it over to the community? If they were ever to make/finish a sequel, it would only benefit them if more people had access to jj2.
You'd have to talk to Epic about that, not us :P

Anyway, to get back to the point a bit, what benefit do you exactly see in "merging" the two versions? What good would it bring?

[ThunderPX]

And honestly, if Epic doesn't care about and won't support the game anymore, then why shouldn't they turn it over to the community? If they were ever to make/finish a sequel, it would only benefit them if more people had access to jj2.

I don't think anyone would argue that point. But like Stijn said, that's not up to us.

Also, Epic will NEVER hand over the source code to jazz, so anybody who still hopes to make a patch should just admit that they will fail.

The general feeling I get from this thread is that you shouldn't be telling us to stop fighting a losing battle.

[Cataphract]

You can't honestly tell me that you think the host would even know that links to an old, unheard of game not being sold anywhere is considered "warez". When Dizzy hosted the game for his friend on the site or something like that, it didn't exactly show he believes there's any kind of a risk. And honestly, if Epic doesn't care about and won't support the game anymore, then why shouldn't they turn it over to the community? If they were ever to make/finish a sequel, it would only benefit them if more people had access to jj2.

If you feel so strongly about this, why don't you just set up your own site and put whatever version you want to force everyone to play there?

Why demand this to the J2O admins? If you want to capitalize on J2O popularity, don't worry, I'm sure your site's google rank would climb in a few months.

Of course, this would have little effect. The split is not just about the availability of TSF (the other direction is less problematic, TSF comes with 1.23 -- at least mine came), there's a "cultural" issue, like has been said in this thread.

[MoonBlazE]

Dearest Kangaroo;

There's nothing we can do about different languages and time-zones, but we can fix the differences in versions. I'm sure there are plenty of english-speakers who play 1.24, and many of them probably enjoy the same game types as those played in 1.23. The idea is to help increase interaction between the two sides as well as throughout the community. Otherwise, the only thing players have in common is the fact that they all use the same servers. I see many people interested in getting xfire support for jazz. But jazz has a small community as it is, and it certainly doesn't help if everyone appears not to be playing the same game. Why would xfire want to support an old game that has a loose community and whose players don't seem to have common interests?

Why do you think the community is loose? Before you start labelling us with words, perhaps you should consider that we all are different kinds of people. Just as you have proven to be ignorant about your argument, people have different personalities and life styles that sometimes just doesn't mix well together. It's our choice to split the community this way because we like it that way, not because it's a bad thing.

The whole idea behind your points is to create a better game for people to play but now these people are saying to you they don't like your solution, then why on earth would you bother? You will never be able to enforce people to patch their games and therefore your sole opinion, despiting how well formulated it may be, simply don't matter jack. This is what a community is.

You can't honestly tell me that you think the host would even know that links to an old, unheard of game not being sold anywhere is considered "warez". When Dizzy hosted the game for his friend on the site or something like that, it didn't exactly show he believes there's any kind of a risk. And honestly, if Epic doesn't care about and won't support the game anymore, then why shouldn't they turn it over to the community? If they were ever to make/finish a sequel, it would only benefit them if more people had access to jj2.

I think it's funny how people sometimes make demands about the site without ever having contributed to the actual works of it. Before you go ahead and make suggestion that could affect the site's hosting, tell me where has your donations been at the last couple of years?

Bob nor Frank or any other staff members won't be heeding your suggestion simply because it's so much work to put at risk just for to clear up what a google search or two could grant you.

There are rules that we have to follow and we didn't set them. Epic's stance in this is in many ways ignorant, yet we have people in this community who still is working on archiving the source code despiting their busy lives. Patience is a virtue because all this ever will be is a rabbit game and it's not a very important part of your life.

Maybe it will fail, but you know what else will?. The machinima idea will fail. Even someone who happens to see it won't want to bother checking out a kid's game that's a bit more advanced than a super nintendo game. Also, Epic will NEVER hand over the source code to jazz, so anybody who still hopes to make a patch should just admit that they will fail. Trying to get xfire support for jazz is "doomed to fail", because they would never support a 2D sprite game that once ran on DOS. Or maybe you should try to avoid these threads altogether if you have nothing to discuss. Last time I checked, nobody was forcing you to read anything.

Last time I checked, there were people supporting those ideas but I don't really see anyone supporting yours. So I'm guessing that despiting your "EPIC WILL NEVER GIVE YOU THE SOURCE CODE" and "XFIRE SUPPORT? LOL", the chances of those goals succeeding is greater than yours. So maybe you should just lay off your high hat and realize all of these goals can only be archieved as a community and as long as you play high commander you're not going getting any support to get there. People aren't going to support you because you argue with them, you see.

Best regards,
Moonblaze.

[Grytolle]

Also, Epic will NEVER hand over the source code to jazz, so anybody who still hopes to make a patch should just admit that they will fail. I lol'd when reading this. You really have no clue, do you? I would post a list of all available improvements that have been accomplished without using the source-code, but I'm way too lazy:god:

[Violet CLM]

To clear up any potential confusion, when Moonblaze says "despising" above he means "despite."

[MoonBlazE]

To clear up any potential confusion, when Moonblaze says "despising" above he means "despite."

Thanks mate, I appreciate it.

[sonicnathan 1]

I think the Maciniama will work because lots of people have taken an interest it. It's just like the 1.25 patch. If we got enough people together we could make it without the source code. But because knowbody cares to make it without the code that's why it hasn't been made with. If I saw a maciniama for Jazz 2 I'd take a look at the game. Ev en if it's the demo. Man. Next thing we know hes going to say that this is going to fail. (All Jazzers. Sign up for this form. These guys are making Jazz 3!!!!!!! No joke! You should see the progress they have made!)

http://www.ambesoftware.com/Forum

[Nonomu198]

I dont see any problem. The TSF ppl you talk about wont even google JJ2 to find this site or wutever. They dont care..... I think.

Also if 1.23 and TSF will combine nothing will happend... the communitys are diffrent.


That wouldn't be impossible. We could even force a patch upgrade on them using hax. It's just a tad unethical, that's all.
BUT THATS NOT EPIC!....oh wait....

[FreeFull]

There could be some sort of converter running on the PC's with listservers. It would make tsf servers seem to be 1.23 servers to people running 1.23, and the reverse too. It could also convert the sprite numbers so this would be transparent and there would be no way of knowing that the server is another version.

[Grytolle]

nice, but then they still wouldn't be able to actually join the servers

[FQuist]

I find it interesting how such a huge number of words is spent trying to get *other* people (who invest money and time into a site) to break the lawfor the benefit of others. (sharing a full game is a sliiiightly worse offense than hosting patching material) It's also interesting how it's cast as an issue of taking the moral high ground while people who state they have moral problems with such an idea are talked down.

Look to your own and stop wasting your time on this issue, please. It would be much more helpful to plan some other strategies (besides "J2O break the law!!!") how to increase JJ2 adoption or tools to make JJ2 more compatible between versions.

[FreeFull]

nice, but then they still wouldn't be able to actually join the servers

why?

[Cataphract]

There could be some sort of converter running on the PC's with listservers. It would make tsf servers seem to be 1.23 servers to people running 1.23, and the reverse too. It could also convert the sprite numbers so this would be transparent and there would be no way of knowing that the server is another version.

Jazz2 gets the server version from the server itself, not the list server. Therefore, you'd have to patch the server -- something like "if the client says it is 1.23 (I'm not sure right now, but I think the client does send this information), reply this server is also 1.23".

Anyway, there would still be other obstacles, but maybe a solution to them can implemented in the dedicated server project.

[Birdie]

why?
Because the levels and tilesets are different.

Also I think FreeFull is talking about a client side program.

[Cataphract]

Because the levels and tilesets are different.

Well, you could nevertheless run a multi-version server if you used 1.23 levels and tilesets.

But no, there's no magic way to suddenly make everything compatible, if that is what FreeFull meant.

[FreeFull]

Sorry, when I posted the last idea I didn't think. Yea, it would have to be a client-side program. It could convert the tilesets and levels to 1.23 format on-the-fly (it that's possible) after they were downloaded from the server (I know it would need a modification of jazz2.exe). It would also convert the animations so that the player won't know its a tsf server (lori could use spaz animations). It would be possible to instead of changing jazz2.exe you could use the program as a launcher (like JazzTool) and it would create a local network server (not using jazz2.exe) and jazz2.exe would be ran with getting on that server with command-line parameters while the program would receive all data from the server on the internet and send it to jazz2.exe via the network server.

[Ricerind]

Such a merge would be a brilliant idea, however, it should not be compulsory. It would be great as a de facto standard, but people should still have a choice.

Not all TSF-only players are noobs (no offence n00b) who don't speak english. The community is slowly dying as it is, and it doesn't help to have a split.

If TSF players who only play hotels and tests saw decent servers come online, they would soon get an appetite for decent levels, and hotel server numbers would drop dramatically. We would gain some decent new players, some of which speak really good english.

At the end of the day, what would be bad? TSF is easy to find online, though sadly I can't say where. Also, to counter the annoyance of massive levels, I think that levels should all be made for 1.23. The 1.23 level and tileset size limits are adequate, and would allow those who choose not to make the switch to continue playing custom levels seamlessly. TSF readily accepts 1.23 levels and tilesets. Pretty much all server tools support TSF (though few accept the 'LK Avalon' release, which differs from standard TSF only in the jazz2.exe and the anims.j2a).

And what is this argument that all the good players play 1.23. That wouldn't matter if everyone switched. At the moment I mainly play 1.23, but I still think it would be a good idea to use 1.24.

[Dermo]

agreed. It would help. Somebody should make an english-polish translation mod for 1.24

[NovaStar]

Why is this still open? *cry*

Phoenix: No, but the majority seem to be. Besides, I'm positive they enjoy hanging around with each other.