Layer 8-less: Battle Game

[Odin]

So here we go with another awesome experiment from me!

The Story:
I was fooling around in Jazz 2, developing "features" that would probably break the game balance, when I accidentally turned off layer 8 in my copy of Jazz 2 while playing multiplayer games. I asked the rest of the people to see that it wasn't a custom level, and they could see layer 8 fine! That's when an idea popped in my head:

The Idea:
I'm guessing what you're thinking. For now I've completely removed layer 8 in the original battle 1 (and later 2/3) levels! Hence its name: Layer 8-less. The effect is really awesome and I don't understand why people haven't done it before!

Screenshots and downloads:
I unfortunately don't have any screenshots, and no downloads available, but it's easy to make your own Layer 8-less level: simply remove all the tiles in layer 8! This works not just with the original Battle 1/2/3, but with any level! Enjoy layer 8-less battle (or CTF, or even Treasure) fun in any level! Heck, even do it in SP levels!

[FreeFull]

Why not make the tiles in layer 8 transparent and lower down the lighting to get the blur effect?

[Odin]

Why not make the tiles in layer 8 transparent and lower down the lighting to get the blur effect?

You don't understand! The real effect is when you remove layer 8 completely!

[Sonyk]

FreeFull, do you remember Battle levels? You should. I do. It was fun to play on Odin's server.

[Dermo]

Well if you play a single player level without a layer 8 you'll get this:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Backgroundless1.jpg

and if you play battle 1 on single player without a layer 8 you'll get this:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Backgroundless2.jpg

and once you put it on multiplayer it becomes this:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Backgroundless3.jpg

So I really don't see the point or fun in doing this.

[Odin]

Well if you play a single player level without a layer 8 you'll get this:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Backgroundless1.jpg

and if you play battle 1 on single player without a layer 8 you'll get this:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Backgroundless2.jpg

and once you put it on multiplayer it becomes this:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/Backgroundless3.jpg

So I really don't see the point or fun in doing this.

Isn't this such an awesome effect?

[Birdie]

Battle 1 uses layer 7 for the background, So layer-8-less would have no effect. ;<!---->)

[Violet CLM]

Sarcasm detection detectors... not responding.
(In all fairness, if you type a lot in multiplayer you start getting the same efect as in SP.)

[Odin]

Sarcasm detection detectors... not responding.
(In all fairness, if you type a lot in multiplayer you start getting the same efect as in SP.)

Then all people have to do is talk a lot! And since that already happens in most JJ2 games, it's no problem!

Battle 1 uses layer 7 for the background, So layer-8-less would have no effect. ;<!---->)

That's the way aha aha I like it.

[Cpp]

I sense a candidate for a new closed thread.

[Dermo]

No I still wanna know what's so cool about layer-8 less battle levels. Once hosted on multiplayer, the unpresent layer-8 just becomes black kind of like a vector image. It's vector until you put it in paint or some non-vector program, then the background becomes black. And on SP maps, what's so cool about deleting layer 8? All it does is screw up the level making it virtually unplayable. So what are you trying to say Odin?

[Stijn]

...vector? Could you elaborate on that?

[ThunderPX]

@Drmoo: Odin's having a tantrum because going "dumb dumb dumb" in Overlord's thread didn't work. That's the point of this thread.

[Valco]

Odin, that's nothing new. Making a level without layer 8 is everyone's first mistake.

Odin, that's not a good idea. It makes ugly levels uglier.

[Valco]

And Odin, I suggest you change your avatar so it better suits you.
As you can see, I'm a big stupid. :p
(That was a joke, it means don't take me too seriously.)

[Odin]

And Odin, I suggest you change your avatar so it better suits you.
As you can see, I'm a big stupid. :p
(That was a joke, it means don't take me too seriously.)

...huh?

Odin, that's nothing new. Making a level without layer 8 is everyone's first mistake.

Odin, that's not a good idea. It makes ugly levels uglier.

See below:

@Drmoo: Odin's having a tantrum because going "dumb dumb dumb" in Overlord's thread didn't work. That's the point of this thread.

Actually, it's just my way of complaining that Overlord came out with a dumb idea and people are licking it up simply because he's Overlord. If it's such a good idea, how come we haven't seen it in other levels, or other games? Sure, there's been sections of levels that are completely black, but I've never seen a multiplayer map or level in any game that's completely black. It doesn't work.

[ThunderPX]

Actually, it's just my way of complaining that Overlord came out with a dumb idea and people are licking it up simply because he's Overlord.

Jealous, are we?

If it's such a good idea, how come we haven't seen it in other levels, or other games?

Maybe, just maybe, because it's new?

Sure, there's been sections of levels that are completely black, but I've never seen a multiplayer map or level in any game that's completely black. It doesn't work.

Maybe, but the only reason I've gotten from your posts is "it's dumb."

[Odin]

Jealous, are we?

Uhh... no. Frankly I'd rather not have veteran status like Overlord, mostly because that means I feel obligated to, like Snoop Dogg, come up with funky (-)(-)(-) (-) like every single day. Keep in mind, I do respect Overlord and his work. He's made some awesome stuff in the past.

Maybe, just maybe, because it's new?[quote]

"Hey, let's make the entire level black!" doesn't sound that new of an idea to me. We've had more than 15 years of level editing, from Wolf 3D to Doom 2 and beyond. We've had tons of time to come up with the totally original idea of "make everything black".

[quote]Maybe, but the only reason I've gotten from your posts is "it's dumb."

Because I thought I could let your mind think about the disadvantages of having a completely black level.

Think about it in the eyes of a new person, who's barely played Battle 1. Now he's playing Battle 1 Blackout. He doesn't have the layout memorized. It's impossible for him to maneuver because he doesn't understand where anything is. It's much harder to learn the layout of Battle 1 Blackout when you haven't played the original, simply because you have to imagine the layout in your head as well as memorize it.

Tell you what. I'll use the Blackout tileset from Overlord's download to make an entirely original level and host it. If I get a server of 10 people, the majority (>5) of which like the level, I'll shut up and suck Overlord's dong for eternity.

[ThunderPX]

Fair enough, but your alternative of just making the level really dark defeats its own purpose- you might not have edited the tileset at all since you can still see everything.

[Violet CLM]

Ummm, wasn't there that one Colonius level from a while back where everything went all-black ALREADY? I'd call it a classic design choice. Also, consider the Diamondus training level from the most recent installment of EvilMike's SP packs. Had that been done before? Not to my knowledge. Had the fact that it had not been done before make it a bad thing? No, of course not.

[blurredd]

If you host at the right time, and the level is made well enough (such as by using visible events to make it easier to tell where you are) you could easily get over 5 players to like it. I could say the same for many other concepts...

Odin, I believe you're overreacting to what happened in Overlord's thread. There weren't that many responses claiming how great the concept would be in general. In fact, it's not much of a concept in and by itself as it has only as much merit as a mirrored level. I don't think the concept is worth an entire thread either, and similar gimmick levels usually don't get one. And unless I was in Overlord's server several months ago, I've already seen a completely black battle1. I can personally assure you that there won't be an influx of these types of levels in the near future. Still, playing a "Blackout" level could be fun in very small doses, just like with many other gimmick levels.

[Murderbeam]

I've got an idea: Make a tileset with tiles that don't suit the mask and have a bizarre pallete. I'd be VERY confusing.

[Dermo]

Your face is confusing!

[Cpp]

Actually, it's just my way of complaining that Overlord came out with a dumb idea and people are licking it up simply because he's Overlord. If it's such a good idea, how come we haven't seen it in other levels, or other games? Sure, there's been sections of levels that are completely black, but I've never seen a multiplayer map or level in any game that's completely black. It doesn't work.
For the record, I never said it is a good idea. I said it was an experiment, which is the large part of the reason why I decided to make a JCF thread about it instead of uploading it directly to J2O. The fact/myth that people like my work just because I'm Overlord is something I would rather not think about ...and I do not ask for it. Surely making a new completely black multiplayer level would likely be a dumb idea, but thats not the point.

The idea behind this was to make an invisible map with a known layout (which is exactly why I chose to convert the battle levels instead of making my own, since battle levels (primarily B1) are some of the most overplayed and well known levels in jj2). It's not about how well you can master it, but rather how well you can master it without seeing it while still knowing your way around.

Because I thought I could let your mind think about the disadvantages of having a completely black level.

Think about it in the eyes of a new person, who's barely played Battle 1. Now he's playing Battle 1 Blackout. He doesn't have the layout memorized. It's impossible for him to maneuver because he doesn't understand where anything is. It's much harder to learn the layout of Battle 1 Blackout when you haven't played the original, simply because you have to imagine the layout in your head as well as memorize it.
The audince that these levels are meant for are mostly people who do have the battle levels memorized well. This is also part of the reason why I chose to introduce the idea at a place where the former is true for the majority. Besides, I don't understand why you express such concern about new players. Whenever I upload a level doesn't mean it has to be hosted on evey server for 24/7. People aren't obligated to play it and if they dislike the blackout levels they can always leave the server and host their own visible battle levels. And to be honest, I don't think I've heard of an online jj2 player who hasn't played Battle1 before.

~Ol

[Sacrush]

I got an idea! layer 4-less: Battle game! It's fun.

Edit: I'm not pointing to Overlord.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Oh would you guys leave him alone? It's not like he's about to destroy the earth for a hyperspace by-pass.

[Valco]

So I have to put my laser gun away? :(

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Nah, it's okay. I heard some Daleks are on there way, so we might need it. Remember to aim for the eye.

[Valco]

Gotcha. ;)

Anyways, we should get back on topic.:rolleyes:

[Dermo]

nonsense

[Valco]

Your right. this thread isn't worth talking about. :p

For some reason I think STIJN is going to delete this post and the above four. He eventually will.

[Dermo]

Well Overlord should have never made a thread about his level either. He should've just made the level and be done with it. His thread was also unnecessary.