Death?

[FireSworD]

JJ2's Multiplayer is approaching a new phase of even less activity and possibly absoloute death soon. It seems the rate at which newcomers arrive is a lot less than before, and once most of the current generation quits, this will take place.

So what to do about it?

I think we should organize a big event while a decent amount of players are still active and go out with a bang. It could possibly attact oldies and less active players in the way Anniversary Bash has done (although this year's bash didn't have many of them).

[Grytolle]

Another idea is to just recruit and encourage new players to start up clans. Also, always keeping tournaments running is a good idea. Finishing jj2wc3 would probably also attract the interest of new players. The game gets more interesting if they know there's some somewhat more serious things to compete over. Another JDC season in a not to faraway future would also definitely be a good thing.

[Vegito]

Yeah, also I would like to do some sort of huge tournament o.O
Quickz managed to do a huge tournament, though it had no time limit.
It would be great to have quite some oldies playing and such :-)

Might be nice to create teams like oldie/newgoodplayer maybe too o.O
Though not everyone might like to play then. I rather not have it that people play for the win very much, more like for fun :-)

[White Rabbit]

If one judges activity by player amount, then the online scene seems to be buzzing. On several occasions, I've seen around 40-50 people listed on the GIP page. What do you use to gauge activity?

[Biohazard UOI]

I noticed that the number of players depends heavily on the time of day. I live in the Eastern time zone of the USA (GMT -5:00), so when I play in the evenings, few if any players are online. However, occasionally, I get a chance to play in the early morning, and then there are usually at least 10 servers open with many players.

[Odin]

The main problem is that many of the new players are European, so many Western players don't see them. Not to mention that many don't know anything about Jazz2Online.

It's not so much the lack of newcomers to Jazz itself, but getting them to join our community.

Also whatever happened to Carrotus Tales?

[ShadowGPW]

The community itself is the cause of his own death.

[Odin]

The community itself is the cause of his own death.

I'm pretty sure we had this conversation before.

[Fawriel]

If the community didn't exist, it wouldn't be dying. TRUE FACTS!

[Grytolle]

Stop going off topic, Shadow. Admins should know better :( This isn't about the "community" dieing.

[ShadowGPW]

cause and effect.

[BattleSpaz]

Do events with fun stuff. FFA battle, Big CTF maps, Assault, Race ect. There must be passwordless enterance.
People who play randomly, going from server to server like that, love them. But unfortunately, someone who have played JJ2 alot hates them.

Whatever you do, don't do tourney/2v2CTF/3V3/ect tournament to attract new people. They might get annoyed, because there might be some really good people, and not so good people. *Points at self*

[Ðx]

Some big events is a good idea:D Mayby something new??

[FreeFull]

The Eva's ring thingy mode in carrotade could be used more, it is fun.

[cooba]

FireSworD saying that JJ2 is close to death… I thought I'd never see this happen.

[Odin]

cause and effect.

Too much fun, not enough safety.

Anyways, as I had said before, Jazz 2 isn't dying, the community is. I believe the best course of action would be to increase awareness of J2O.

[FreeFull]

Odin, fun over safety.

[EvilMike]

The english speaking american portion of the community is moving on. My thoughts on this? Whatever.

The game is not dying. There are servers being hosted, just in different time zones.

The community is not dying. When there are players there is a community. It's just changing, and this particular section of it (JCF) is becoming less central to the big picture.

I'm surprised FS posted this thread, but I think I understand his reasoning. Still, I think this kind of thread is silly and it's a topic not worth worrying about.

I remember a thread just like this on the JMMB in 1999.

[FireSworD]

Odin: Because of the lack of motivation

Also, I started the topic to hopefully get something good going before things start to get boring around here.

The thread title is meant to gather more attention about this than state it as a fact, but it could very well be true. What I really think is, as I have said before is a "phase of less activity" I am not talking about zero amount of servers or people playing. I am not talking about the community dying yet either. Anyone who is active knows that for a fact the western part died, and that was a recent occurance. So for the active part we have mostly european 1.23 and TSF players. From my experience, for the seemingly vast amount of TSF players only about one or two will get actively involved in the community and produce material etc. The euro part that is currently active was built upon previous generations of other players. Now let me ask you...are there a decent amount of new members that are producing new material compared to, say, 3 years ago?

If those type of players aren't around, there will not be enough to support things like JDC, JJ2WC or other tournaments in the future for obvious reasons.

If JJ2 dies soon then so be it. There is no reason not to end on a good note.

[Odin]

Odin, fun over safety.

Yeah, I know, but I wanted to mix the joke up a bit rather than "DURR HURR FUN OVER SAFETY"

[Vegito]

Hm. Most of the TSF players dont even speak English =\ Try communicating with them as long as you're not Polish. Almost impossible.

[FireSworD]

Anyway, this topic is sort of pointless now since R3p started a One day tournament. :)

[Spotty]

I don't think it is going to die.
It's not best to put a forced effort on bringing people in if they don't want to play.
You can bring them in to a big event or two but in the end they will still stay inactive :P.

[FireSworD]

Perhaps my post wasn't written very well and can be misinterpereted but I meant the currently active players and POSSIBLY oldies could participate if they want to. My intent wasn't to make the game active again, geez.

In other words, an event just for the heck of it in case we may never have the chance again.

Also I am not completely convinced the game is going to "die" soon (read my post above, sigh), though I believe it is very likey the game will go through an unpleasant (for multiplayer) change. You can't refute truth anyway.

[NovaStar]

It's been shifting to the Europeans and TSF Polish players for ages. Well, in western parts, yes, people are growing out of it, but it's not like the whole community is about to drop dead no activity whatsoever.

[!Tman!]

Lets not forget about how many people we lost after the main server crashed from epic.... We have gained back alot. I remeber the days when u would only see 2 or 3 servers not page loads like today. Chill it will be ok :)

[Dermo]

But I mean go back about 5 years. There were about 20 servers up at a time then.

[KRSplat]

There weren't 20 servers up at all times back then, either.

[Dermo]

Ok so I exaggerated but there were WAY MORE players back then.

[NovaStar]

A considerate amount more, true.

[Ðx]

Yes, these times were awsome. But it won't die. As long we all stay here

[CrimiClown]

Free monstertrucks can save the game.

[KRSplat]

Ok so I exaggerated but there were WAY MORE players back then.

What I meant was that there would be pages of servers up sometimes, but most of the time there would be less than one full page. Even presently, there are 1-2 full pages of games on occasion. For example, the JDC season always brings life to the JJ2 online scene, and after the season ends, activity seems dead.

[Unhit]

I played a single player episode yesterday!

[Super Saiyan]

Well, that's odd, I left this community a few years ago (back then I already considered it as closely to dead) and all the time I thought the community would be really "dead" by now, but it still isn't... hmmmm :)

[R3ptile]

lol wb :god:

[Vegito]

Wb. =P

<s> go win JDC again as u've been beaten > : (</s>

Actually the game is pretty active still thx to Nimrod. He made Epic redirect the "real JJ2 serverlist" (the one you get when you install JJ2 and stuff) to the one we're using now :).

[White Rabbit]

OH, CRAP!
Why don't you just leave?! You're good at that. Just go! I have waited almost 4 years for you to come back to me, and when I finally get to the point where I never want to see you again, you walk through the door!

But I'm much stronger now. It'd take a lot more than just showing up to change my mind. And don't bother apologizing. There's nothing you can do to take back what you did. Do you realize what I went through, losing all the trust we had?

I have nothing more to say to you.
Except...gotcha. ;)

[Super Saiyan]

OH, CRAP!
Why don't you just leave?! You're good at that. Just go! I have waited almost 4 years for you to come back to me, and when I finally get to the point where I never want to see you again, you walk through the door!

But I'm much stronger now. It'd take a lot more than just showing up to change my mind. And don't bother apologizing. There's nothing you can do to take back what you did. Do you realize what I went through, losing all the trust we had?

I have nothing more to say to you.
Except...gotcha. ;)

Hahahaha you're such a drama queen :p By the way, I didn't come here to rejoin the community or so (don't have enough time for it, because of school), I just passed by to have a quick look on how things were going in jj2(-community), I really thought the whole community would be death, this site would be down and everyone which I knew would be gone by now.

Surprisingly it is not.

I'm really happy about that, because I have great memories left here, and you know it.

So everyone, keep up the good work and hopefully this community will survive yet another 4 years :-)

--

By the way WHITEY, have you got any clue how I can contact my old clanmates again? (like Elrick, Goldy, Umbaman, etcetera.)

Thank you in advance.

:)

[Grytolle]

Umba is in CC and often on msn

[KRSplat]

You may not have come to stay, but we have guards at the exit. You're not going anywhere.

[Unhit]

Goldy aka Ri idles on IRC.

[FireSworD]

It's good to see you again ssj. Oh and we don't buy the whole school thing, it would be nice to see you play again at least a little. Also, theese times are way different from when you were last here; so in a way you could say the jj2 community you once knew did actually die.

[Vegito]

BOD Elrick. I haven't seen him in forever. Umba can be found at MSN, feel free to PM me for his MSN address, Im sure he likes to stay in contact. Umba might also have some information about Elrick (and Eagle if you want him too).

[Super Saiyan]

Alright thanks a lot guys, I might contact them sooner or later, just to see what the heck they are doing nowadays hehe.

Man, time passes so fast. The last time I spoke to any of them was about ehhhm... 4 years ago I believe? :rolleyes:

[Bboy Type7]

JJ2's Multiplayer is approaching a new phase of even less activity and possibly absoloute death soon. It seems the rate at which newcomers arrive is a lot less than before, and once most of the current generation quits, this will take place.

So what to do about it?

I think we should organize a big event while a decent amount of players are still active and go out with a bang. It could possibly attact oldies and less active players in the way Anniversary Bash has done (although this year's bash didn't have many of them).

what for? jazz 2 was never suitable for online play. jazz isn't network. it isn't built for online. epic just made it to add a flare to the game. it's a cheesy idea imo to play default characters from the game online against other players. if your character was to be anonymous like halo, doom, hl, or a masked soldier that's suitable. It's just a fun platform game for PC where you must follow the story of the game, play new levels made by you or other players. that's enough already for it to be fun. playing it offline is pointless already and why play it online? think about it.

the game already died already. it's so underground that hardly ever anyone in multiplayer online gaming communities ever heard from it.

sonic online? baaaaaaaaddd

[master sven]

I think are a lot of newcomers, even on 1.23. However in this time with these routers there is a decreasing amount of people that are being able to host. In the time I could host for example ( between 1 year and 6 months ago) when I hosted a game there would be arround 10 people after a while, they are just waiting for a server to come online. (Maybe we should make a battle server V2.

[Anakin[CC]]

The main problem is that many of the new players are European, so many Western players don't see them. Not to mention that many don't know anything about Jazz2Online.

It's not so much the lack of newcomers to Jazz itself, but getting them to join our community.

Also whatever happened to Carrotus Tales?


I think he has a point here, i've been arround the web and often in newsposts about jazz 2 or in reviews i saw comments like "yeah jazz was a great game back in the old days"

I think many people dont realise there actually is a jazz2 online community, what people dont see, or dont know, is what they dont get.
Second, even if you manage to let a big part of the online world, know about jazz2online, how'd you make them interrested into playing a game that was created in 98 ?

I personally would most look forward to Jazz2 on XBLA, and a demo that would have online posabilities would help a lot, not a lot of people who own a Xbox360, would buy the full game right away, but could and probarly some would atleast try a demo, and discover the online community. They would try out the game(demo) if they knew it was from epic games and especially that CliffyB was a part of it. I think that a port of jazz2 to XBLA would be great, even though i dont own a xbox360 myself, but who can and will create/convert it ?

[Unhit]

I also believe that most people don't even know that you can play the game online.

[Bboy Type7]

JJ2 has that option for online play availible, sure. It doesn't mean it's meant for online play. they hardly ever noticed haha

[Grytolle]

You don't make sense..

[Valco]

Once the Jazz Duelists Challenge returns, new people will be flying in left and right. Even though newcomers aren't common anymore, it's never been common that people leave the community at a distressing rate. By the time all of us have left Jazz, <STRIKE>the world will have blown up anyway</STRIKE> we'll have enough members to continue on. I wouldn't worry about it, after all, there's only so much we can actually do about it.

[kyevan]

Part of the problem is the impossibility of finding the games...

[Vegito]

I actually have to agree with Valco now. JJ2 seems to be more active again. Okay, not for the Americans really ;(

[Valco]

Someone's agreeing with me? This must be a sign of the apocalypse...

[Take One]

Hah! Well, I've had experience with 'dying' communities before. Even Doom went through one of those phases: I have been following the posts on Doomworld for a few years now, and at one point, everything just stopped. No news for months, no updates in any sourceports, a severe drop in multiplayer games (as far as I could tell)...

Anyway, several months ago, just before the 15th (I believe) anniversary of the game, a couple of news items were posted, there was a sudden update for ZDoom after almost a year and the annual Cacowards were hosted. Almost instantly, it was practically the early 90s all over again. Even their Doom 3 community was put to shame by the old-school doomers.

Getting to the point, I think that this has the potential to happen with Jazz. Get something interesting to happen, such as a large tournament, and the community is likely to thrive once again. (Also, the release of the source code would obviously help, too - updates, source ports... Just look at what happened to Doom when the source was released. O.k., I'm starting to ramble, now...)

[n00b]

No news for months

I think a good sign that the JJ2 community isn't dieing is the fact that I cant recall anything like this happening to us.

Also- Has any JDC season ever seen a massive increase in new players who stick around?
Its not the fact that we don't have tourneys or the like, its the fact that the community is obscure as hell and until recently the default listservers did not work causing many who aren't aware of google to think the game is dead. I don't think Epic even mentioned the listserver redirect on their website at all.

[kyevan]

It helps that Doom's not impossible to find. Without putting in some serious effort, legal copies of Jazz2, or even illegal 1.20+ copies, are basically nowhere.

[n00b]

As a dirty pirate myself (condemn me if you will, but I'm not paying for games licensed off of animated movies) I will say that an increase in JJ2 warez did happen during 2007. Each of the 3 warez forums I visit all at one point had someone upload JJ2 (or TSF)

[kyevan]

But how many of those were some /1\.00./ version?

[Bboy Type7]

Jazz 2 is so underground now. Selling it is pretty useless. Old game, you can just use broadband and dl it in 5 seconds. You can just warez it or rapidshare it. I got this game by pirating it. Selling the game is just the companies/business's way to make money.

[Unhit]

Selling the game is just the companies/business's way to make money.

Just wanted to quote this without commenting to emphasize it :DDDDDDDDD

[Grytolle]

Selling the game is just the companies/business's way to make money.You might be onto something there.. :D

[Grytolle]

(-) you, Unhit. Can't I go get some milk without you stealing my quotation?

[Unhit]

(-) you, Unhit. Can't I go get some milk without you stealing my quotation?

no <3O+ O+ O+ O+ O+ O+

p.s. i think i also got myself some milk at about the same time (!)

[n00b]

But how many of those were some /1\.00./ version?

Ready for the best answer you've ever seen in the past two seconds?
None

Also, so I don't be untrendy:
Selling the game is just the companies/business's way to make money.

[kyevan]

My copy of Jazz 2 is less-than-legal, I admit, but even finding a non 1.00 copy was a pain. I eventually found it in a torrent that included JJ1 and the leaked JJ3 alpha, but anyway...

I'm still hopeing I can find a copy I can actually buy, but I doubt it's going to happen.

For trend reasons:
Selling the game is just the companies/business's way to make money.

[Bboy Type7]

You don't make sense..

no it's your comprehension is weak :P

[n00b]

I'm a natural born english speaker, and I have to admit it took a while to understand what you meant.

That honestly could have been much better written, don't blame it all on someone who didn't have english as their first language.

[Bboy Type7]

hahaha i was kidding. didn't you noticed the ":P"?

[n00b]

I took that more as an "Haha you suck" and less of a "Haha I'm kidding".

I mean lets think logically, does anyone really stick out their tongue at someone else to let them know they're kidding?

[Grytolle]

JJ2 has that option for online play availible, sure. It doesn't mean it's meant for online play. they hardly ever noticed hahaI'll give you that you make sense up until the first dot. Then you jump to an unsupported conclusion, whereafter you fail at the funnies, while being very unclear about to whom you tried to refer with "they".

Conclusion: You didn't make (much) sense.

no it's your comprehension is weak :PHmm, are you by any chance from Poland? It do took you many time to writing that? xDDDD

[Anakin[CC]]

Hah! Well, I've had experience with 'dying' communities before. Even Doom went through one of those phases: I have been following the posts on Doomworld for a few years now, and at one point, everything just stopped. No news for months, no updates in any sourceports, a severe drop in multiplayer games (as far as I could tell)...

Anyway, several months ago, just before the 15th (I believe) anniversary of the game, a couple of news items were posted, there was a sudden update for ZDoom after almost a year and the annual Cacowards were hosted. Almost instantly, it was practically the early 90s all over again. Even their Doom 3 community was put to shame by the old-school doomers.

Getting to the point, I think that this has the potential to happen with Jazz. Get something interesting to happen, such as a large tournament, and the community is likely to thrive once again. (Also, the release of the source code would obviously help, too - updates, source ports... Just look at what happened to Doom when the source was released. O.k., I'm starting to ramble, now...)

I know what you mean, i've seen the same, communities of Transport Tycoon and Sensible World of Soccer are good examples aswel.

The TT community was semi-alive and it got a whole new live with doubled strength ever since OpenTTD came out, ( www.openttd.org ) It enabled to play Transport Tycoon Deluxe under windows XP ( and Vista ) and added some very usefull new options and became open source, OpenTTD has become very populair and effective since then and its community is evreything but death.

The Swos ( Sensible Soccer ) community, was actually already dead a few years back, and i saw no hope in its revival. But codemasters released a new swos in 2006, to my biggest suprise, but the new game sucked and only revived the community with some rare activity, the communtiy became active again when a remake of the old swos ( dos version ) was being released on XBLA and a new community site ( www.sensiblesoccer.de ) came up.

[DoubleGJ]

you guys make me feel special for owning legal copies of JJ1, TSF and CC

[kyevan]

You're not special. Just old! :)

[Anakin[CC]]

I happen to have legal copies of Jj1, a certain jj1 bonus pack ( with lego blocks ) still on a floppy, jj2 and jj2 tsf too.

[Grytolle]

I stole my copy of CC from a friend... is that a legal copy or not?

[Newspaz]

Some friend you are...

[Violet CLM]

;426518']a certain jj1 bonus pack ( with lego blocks )
It's shareware, so owning it legally is no great accomplishment.

[cooba]

Owning it <em>illegally</em> would be quite a feat.

[Fawriel]

Owning it <em>illegally</em> would be quite a feat.

I stole mine from an orphanage.

[KRSplat]

I stole mine from an orphanage.

Mine is a reincarnation born in Tibet. (Illegal, according to the Chinese government.)

[Valco]

Seeing as we've started to discuss how legal our copies of JJ1 are, instead of discuss the death of JJ2, I can officially say this thread has derailed. Therefore, Bwuk bwuk bwuk, gobble gobble :devan:

[Grytolle]

Some friend you are...He didn't love it like i do O+

[wowzabunny]

heylo everybody
i have already invited 5 new players into jazz this yaer and they love it
everyone should try and get jazz back to life again
its one of the best games ive ever played

[DoubleGJ]

i think i liek u

[Bboy Type7]

JJ2 is really dying. Whether you like it or not, it's dying. It's so isolated from all the multiplayer online games out there. You won't even find it listed in multiplayer gaming sites or directories either. However this underground game is spreading like a flame on oil in most european countries.

[Unhit]

The level of a number itself doesn't say anything about the rate at which it is changing. The fact that JJ2 has few players doesn't automatically imply that the amount of players continually decreases, and thus that the community dies.

[FQuist]

Please decrease the amount of spam you guys are posting. Those useless "pwn"-like messages increase the noise-to-signal ratio too much.

[Valco]

JJ2 will never die if I keep smuggling copies into Canada. I'm getting paid
5$ per satisfaction. And who's not satisfied with Jazz?

[ShadowGPW]

;426277']..........I personally would most look forward to Jazz2 on XBLA, and a demo that would have online posabilities would help a lot, not a lot of people who own a Xbox360, would buy the full game right away, but could and probarly some would atleast try a demo, and discover the online community. They would try out the game(demo) if they knew it was from epic games and especially that CliffyB was a part of it. I think that a port of jazz2 to XBLA would be great, even though i dont own a xbox360 myself..

Not to shatter all these dreams but let me quote Cliffy from a recent interview on ClanBase.com;

Can we expect the old Epic games on the Xbox live service once? ....or something like steam?

While I'd love to see something like this the odds of it happening are pretty low. We're knee deep in making AAA new games these days and porting our old classics would take cycles and resources away from those big titles!
']...but who can and will create/convert it ?
Jazz Jackrabbit is (yip, really) a valued franchise for them, so they won't let a few amateurs doing their job. So don't count on it that Jazz Jackrabbit will appear on the XBLA or Steam.

[n00b]

I don't see why at least the sequel wouldn't appear on Steam. Steam is PC only AFAIK, wouldn't all it take is just some guy to upload the files needed?

[ShadowGPW]

I don't see why at least the sequel wouldn't appear on Steam. Steam is PC only AFAIK, wouldn't all it take is just some guy to upload the files needed?

Then ask cliffy

cliffyb@cliffyb.com :)

[KRSplat]

The level of a number itself doesn't say anything about the rate at which it is changing. The fact that JJ2 has few players doesn't automatically imply that the amount of players continually decreases, and thus that the community dies.

Indeed. The UK is a smaller country than Russia; does this mean the UK is dead or dying?

[Unhit]

Actually, I'd even say this comm unity is very vivid. Just look at the join dates of the different members, there's a huge variety. And there's still a lot of new uploads every month etc., so... :)

[CrimiClown]

... if I may share my humble opinion with you guys.

There are a lot of 'oldies' still playing the game. Why? Because they enjoy playing it. There are also a lot of newcomers. They will also enjoy it and become 'oldies', because the game itself, level maker inclusive, is always evolving. New tilesets, programs and ideas keep this game alive. You can't say the same for, let's say, an ordinary online platformer, because of the lack of creativity allowed to the player.

Also, why don't we put some blunt advertisement for J2O in, let's say, the Battle Server (as far as it still exists). Just text strings saying "For more information, visit www.jazz2online.com".

Though if you really want to attract people and still state the facts, replace 'information' with 'asian men hairstyles' or 'lolcats' or 'a community that is fun and retarded at the same time'.

[Valco]

What the -

Great. We have two new members, one is a child who started a useless clan, and the other ALSO started a useless clan. It's like evolution but backwards.

[master sven]

We have a lot of young talents with allready some skill and without airheads. Think of: Rewence, Fawful, Eigus, Charon and Zeta.

[Raven aka StL]

What did Grytolle say? There's a record chance that he was right.

[Nonomu198]

But it seems all them "oldies" has this uncontrolled hatred aginst newbies. Well, to tell the truth, uncontrolled hatred aginst all, and it kinda freaks out the new comers and they run.

[snzspeed]

What the -

Great. We have two new members, one is a child who started a useless clan, and the other ALSO started a useless clan. It's like evolution but backwards.

let me state something where lot of people will agree:

new clans arent evolution backwards..

[Vegito]

True.

Seriously valco, lol. You make no sense these few days ;(

[Valco]

I make sense all the time. I feel insulted.

I'm gonna go kick a chicken because I'm so mad at my television, and eat pork because THE BIG FAT MEANIE SAID SO. Blahgurgabah.

Ignoring that... Well yeah, I agree with snzspeed too. Why did it sound like a bad thing the way I said it...

[Vegito]

Well, because it is a personal attack towards them and to the community itself maybe..
Also it doesn't make sense because theres a lot of other "newbies" who are nice.

[Valco]

Also it doesn't make sense because theres a lot of other "newbies" who are nice.

Your nice too. But that's not a part of my arguement. (I disagree with it now too, I don't know why I posted this) I was just mentioning the two more recent ones, Genetic and Wowzabunny. Well, I take back anything I said about Genetic. But Wowzabunny... Plans on fighting White Rabbit for the guys name, and takes everything I say as if it's a heated arguement, when I'm trying to set him down the right path. (A little less polite than desirable, but whatever)
Genetic's an okay guy, though. It's only my opinion that you shouldn't start a clan right after signing up anyways, and now I see that there isn't anything wrong with it. My original theory was that almost all new players would start clans and fight eachother over the name, but I realize that's totally improbable.

NOTICE: I will now be using this to note a question I do not want answers to. People, leave me alone.

[ShadowGPW]

start getting ontopic again, or the angry Bunny will start being mean to you all.

[Valco]

start getting ontopic again, or the angry Bunny will start being mean to you all.

:lori: Dun dun dun dun

[R3ptile]

JJ2 died at the first time some kid said "JJ2 IS NOT DEAD"

[Stijn]

JJ2 becomes a little more alive every time someone claims JJ2 is dead.

[Erik]

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF218-The_Great_Circle.jpg

[KRSplat]

this thread was dead :|