Water in Multiplayer levels - yay or nay?

[Talec]

I remember it was discouraged "back in the day" when I was playing regularly (1999-2002), because many peoples' computers just weren't up to snuff.

What are the current thoughts on multiplayer (Battle and CTF particularly) levels either wholly or partially underwater?

[Valco]

First of all, you should've made this a poll.

To start things off, I find that adding water to levels in multiplayer adds a little bit more needed strategy, and strategy is always more fun than bouncing around shooting. However, if the whole level is underwater, this takes away the gameplay normally given above, and it eventually gets very irritating when you can't go on your favoured landscape. So I'd say I'm a little between the idea. Nice to see your back here, too, after all this time.

[Stijn]

No, polls mean everyone votes and no one discusses.

I dislike water in multiplayer because it slows things down tremendously and aiming is hard.

[Hitch]

I find it quite biased as well. (Weapon choices)

[Jimbob]

Yes, the gameplay in the water (in wholly filled or partially filled levels) can also be really fun or irritating depending on the ammo choice, and specifically how much of that ammo is in the level. For example, seekers are WAAAAY over-powered in most water levels (because it's hard to aim other weapons, as Stijn said. They are also over-powered especially if there is a water control room in the level.) So if you'd want that type of weapon in your level, make it VERY RARE if you're putting in any.
Anyways, I second Hitch.

[Grytolle]

Biased towards whom, Hitch?

Water should hardly be used at all in my opinion... it's like impossible to dodge in it, and you can't move fast in it.

[EvilMike]

I think water can make a level better from a theoretical standpoint, by making a level more strategic. It's difficult to use well though.

In practice, water is a bad idea. I have never seen a multiplayer level that uses a lot of water become popular. Ones that use it just a little bit do alright, but ones that make it a central element never seem to do well. I made a CTF level once that used water and it never became popular. The fact is, players don't like to swim. Even if it makes a level more strategic and more interesting, water is just too slow, and jj2 is a game where speed is everything.

[Unhit]

First of all, I'd never use water in the whole level, but only in a small bottom part of it. And even then, the facts mentioned might add strategy, but definitely remove game flow and fun. If it's not necessary to travel through the water, people will avoid it because of the mentioned problems when moving in water, and if you would be forced to move through water by getting from each base to the other, or to the carror or w/e, then people might get annoyed by it. Thus, as a conclusion, you might use water, but not as much more than a decoration (or like a 1-tile-high water area using that 1-tile water event thingie, like e.g. in tilesets like jungle and agama's jungle tileset of which i forgot the name now) if you don't want to heavily influence the gameplay of the level.

[Odin]

I think water can make a level better from a theoretical standpoint, by making a level more strategic. It's difficult to use well though.

In practice, water is a bad idea. I have never seen a multiplayer level that uses a lot of water become popular. Ones that use it just a little bit do alright, but ones that make it a central element never seem to do well. I made a CTF level once that used water and it never became popular. The fact is, players don't like to swim. Even if it makes a level more strategic and more interesting, water is just too slow, and jj2 is a game where speed is everything.

/thread

Though I remember really liking an assault level by Blur that took place on a pirate ship, where you had to swim to get to certain parts of the ship.

[Valco]

Biased towards whom, Hitch?

Me, who has <STRIKE>mastered</STRIKE> <STRIKE>trained</STRIKE> been a powerhouse with flamethrowers, which don't work at all underwater. <STRIKE>My name being Valco as in 'Valcano' is just an excuse to use flamethrowers when I can hardly aim with other weapons.</STRIKE> It's a waste of my mastery. :devan:

[Grytolle]

Sorry, I had forgotten about you being a multiplayer god :(

[Valco]

And YOU have forgotten about my sarcasm! :|

Anyways, in my opinion, water should only be in levels where battling isn't necassery, such as treasure hunt, race, and various custom concepts like base builder(Add a moat) or something.

[EvilMike]

/thread

Though I remember really liking an assault level by Blur that took place on a pirate ship, where you had to swim to get to certain parts of the ship.
That is a very good level, but I recall there only being one objective that really required swimming. The rest could be reached via dry land. Because of that, it's not that annoying. Also, since it's an assault level there is less emphasis on speed. CTF on the other hand is different, because it's not unusual for just one second to be the difference between a win and a loss.

[Vegito]

Water crashes my jj2 at times so better not use it :+

[Talec]

Vegito- Ouch! That's a compelling argument against water...

Thanks for the opinions, everyone. :D

(and feel free to post more, although I guess I'll build away from water...)

[Unhit]

veg duel in a lvl with water? disc counts as losing

[Valco]

Unhit managed to use so much chatspeak I actually didn't understand him.

[Grytolle]

disc = disconnect

np man

[Ragnarok!]

Frog + Water + Floatup = Godly frog mode. Try it.

[Nonomu198]

Wasn't this my idea? >:[

[wowzabunny]

nah there should be no water what so ever it makes the level much harder and is very irratating

[Genetic]

How to activate water in jazz 2 level maker? And how to take it away?

[Violet CLM]

Use the Water Level event. The first time you touch a Water Level event ingame, "Instant" has to be set to 1, which means that the water will automatically be at the height you set (0 just means "whatever height this event is at"). After that, Instant may be either 1 or 0 (water steadily approaches the specified height, JJ1-style).

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

Short water passages need not be slow! When entering water from land reverse your direction at the last second and you will fly through the water much faster than if you'd been pushing the direction you actually wanted to go.

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o pushing right before entering water
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o push left at the last second before entering water
|-
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Swim fast for a short period of time!

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|-o
</pre>