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Violet CLM
Jan 3, 2010, 12:16 AM
<i>ETA:</i> For the uninitiated, LMAT stands for "Let's Make A Tileset," and represents community projects to make tilesets, in which anyone may participate. <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/user/4925/lmat/downloads/">Here</a> is the list of past LMAT sets.

We're currently between LMAT projects, assuming that Valentine's Day will be released soon and that no one ever wants to think about our failed beach set again. The LMAT success rate is actually surprisingly high, but it's quite slow, so I thought we should try inputting a little bit more structure into the proceedings and see what happens. This will mean a tileset a little less abstract than, say, Kansas or Aftermath, but I think we can collectively come up with enough eyecandy to make it interesting. Here's what I propose, although this is open to discussion and adaptation:

<b>Phase 1:</b> <i>Collectively decide on a theme.</i> <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=16746">Here</a> are a bunch of tileset ideas and we can come up with some more here if necessary and ultimately try to agree on one. If no consensus can be reached I will do some private consultation and emerge with a decision. Name may be decided during this phase or may emerge later.
<b>Phase 2:</b> <i>Come up with more detailed concepts.</i> Concept discussion will be created by asking people not to start drawing for a couple days after a theme has been decided upon. This can include concept art (in any medium), screenshots of other games, written ideas, etc. Stuff that develops the idea beyond a general theme and gives us specific items, floor types, layers, whatever, to work on. For Aftermath, for example, things like the lockers (ruined and otherwise), rotating warp pillar, and nuclear background refinery might be speculated here.
<b>Phase 3:</b> <i>Initial Artwork.</i> This is mostly for the most important tiles, such as the basic ground and whatever else is essential to the particular theme. Background layers, maybe, if we're feeling fancy. The basic ground and other such tiles determine the artistic feeling of the entire tileset so it's important to get those done first before breaking off in other directions. As has happened in some previous LMAT sets, this is a good time for multiple people to try drawing the same thing, so that we can decide what looks best rather than being stuck with the first few tiles forever.
<b>Phase 4:</b> <i>Fleshing out the set.</i> Basically the equivalent to an ordinary LMAT development, with people drawing the rest of the tileset, ideally in a visually consistent style. One idea I've been toying with in my head is people being assigned individual parts and then presenting them for criticism and editing, rather than people doing things at random without prior warning.
<b>Phase 5:</b> <i>Editing.</i> Again, a basic tileset procedure: changing up the tile order to be more user-friendly, discovering missing tiles (particularly connecting tiles) and adding them in, and so on. Will probably have a blurry border with phase 4.
<b>Phase 6:</b> <i>Postprocessing.</i> Palette(s?), mask, example level. To forestall what has happened with Valentine's Day, here, as with everything else, if someone is assigned to do something and then simply never does it, someone else should take over instead.

Thoughts? The main point is that we come up with ideas before we start drawing, everything else is just formalization. One theme I'd like to see is a good shipboard tileset, with sails and cannons and all that good stuff. Maybe some island tiles as well, just to be nifty. What are your ideas?

Sacrush
Jan 3, 2010, 12:43 AM
I'm Probably not going to help with the tileset itself cause I suck at drawing but a good cowboy themed tileset would be nice.

FireSworD
Jan 3, 2010, 01:18 AM
Well there are advantages and disadvantages to planning, as sometimes what might seem like a good idea might not look so great in execution, while simple overlooked ideas can often be best. Screenshots from other games can offer inspiration and information on just how to execute the theme, but the set will probably just look very similar to those screenshots.

I am personally not interested in making a shipboard tileset. The idea of making something detailed and complex sounds great and I'd love to take the challenge, but only if we are intent on making something original, that looks amazing, and very imaginative. In other words, all the people have to be as motivated as I am to make this work, and that means making something that might seem like a stupid idea at first but in actuality is a work of genius.

snzspeed
Jan 3, 2010, 01:29 AM
Fractal set

cooba
Jan 3, 2010, 02:38 AM
I'm Probably not going to help with the tileset itselfvague design pseudophilosophycompletely unfeasible ideawe're on an excellent start

snzspeed
Jan 3, 2010, 03:03 AM
Your post didnt really contribute either..

Nonomu198
Jan 3, 2010, 06:05 AM
Hmm... Victoria Falls.

CrimiClown
Jan 3, 2010, 07:30 AM
...a waterfall based theme would be cool. And I don't mean the standard 'one tile wide falling water' stuff, but for real, like, rocky cliffs, waterfalls, suspension bridges (collapsing of course) and water.. You know what I'm talking about.

EvilMike
Jan 4, 2010, 12:04 AM
Reminds me of those levels from Donkey Kong Country 3. Only problem is that a tileset like that would be a pain in the (-)(-)(-) to animate, unless you opted for putting the waterfalls on moving layers.

One theme that I've always thought was lacking is a dungeon tileset. I don't just mean another generic castle tileset - I mean some kind of dark underground dungeon, with prison cells (complete with iron bars), chains, hooks, various torture devices, and lots of spike traps (to prevent prisoners escaping!). It would absolutely need animated spikes that could come out of the floors or even walls. Also, some clever use of invisible tiles could be done to make it so the spikes are triggered when you go near them (I used something like this in my SP episodes for the spike traps). In fact, for a tileset like this, I imagine spikes being a major theme, aside from being a prison as well. Also, I'm not suggesting some sort of super grim and violent tileset, just something that fits the concept of a medieval dungeon.

The idea sounds generic at first, but if you think about it there's really nothing good available for this theme. The best is probably Medivo (any version) or Fortress of Forgotten Souls, but both of those are just "evil castles" more than anything. More likely is this tileset would be a dark reimagining of JJ2's Castle tileset.

I don't think this tileset would need outdoor sections, although you could have a background visible through windows (a thunder storm would look good, especially if the tiles around the windows lit up during flashes, for realism or something). Reason I suggest against outdoor sections (beyond some BG) is the following: (a) it would be a bit of a distraction from the main theme, and dungeons are supposed to be underground and inescapable anyway... plus if variety is needed, there could be cave tiles, or parts of the dungeon where the bricks give away to rough stone, or something like that; and (b) most "castle" type tilesets we have contain a lot of outdoor stuff, which limits their usefulness for the sort of "deep dungeon" theme I'm talking about.

It would be interesting of there were different styles of ground, so a level could be made that goes deeper and deeper, with each layer of depth becoming more rugged and cave like.



I also have a few opinions about the first post.

One thing I might suggest is that while having "process" that this tileset goes through is a good idea, you should be careful not to make it too rigid. A lot of the time in these threads, people just contribute what they can while people stitch it together into a coherent set. It kind of bounces back and forth between what you called phase 3 and phase 4. Like, one person posts a bit of random eyecandy, or some other fragment, and then the next person takes it, edits it and puts it into the actual tileset. Something like that is probably more effective for an open project like this one, because anyone can contribute anything at any time. It's also far better for people to volunteer to do things, rather than being assigned. Towards the end it will bounce back and forth between phase 5 and phase 4 type posts.

The last phase would basically be where the collaboration ends, and one or two people finish everything up. Someone just has to take the tileset once it looks reasonably complete, and get it uploaded.

You'll also have a hard time keeping phase 1 and phase 2 separated unless you use different threads.

Overall though it's a good idea to give this one a bit of structure. Just try to let it develop more naturally. It might be a good idea to just generalize it into 3 phases, eg. Concept, Development, and Finalization.

DoubleGJ
Jan 4, 2010, 05:06 AM
I can be in. If you want my suggestions on the theme, just see my post in the topic UR linked to.

Nonomu198
Jan 13, 2010, 04:47 AM
This is going nowhere. Maybe it's time to vote on the concept?

Obi1mcd
Feb 24, 2010, 01:12 AM
Come on, this can't die yet, you haven't even started it! All in favor of starting phase 1?

DoubleGJ
Feb 24, 2010, 03:14 AM
Yes, of course. Maybe we should just make a poll on the theme by choosing from the ideas mentioned above, then it ought be settled!

Violet CLM
Mar 1, 2010, 05:30 PM
Okay. That's fair. Um, I really don't have much time anymore for this (or any) project, because school has started again, but we can definitely try to move forward as a collective. On the table right now are a dungeon/cave environment, shipboard, fractals, waterfalls, and numerous random ideas from that thread. What we need to move forward is for people to start showing support for ideas other than their own. Hopefully we can do that informally but I'll post a poll if necessary. If we can't come to any consensus, screw it, we're making <a href="http://cinemafique.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/avatar-20090601070228359.jpg">Pandora</a>.

(Personally, I like waterfalls in theory, but I feel that there are very few of us at best with any good grasp of animation and such a tileset would need a lot of animated tiles. Mike goes to lengths to make the dungeon interesting, but we've got a whole lot of tilesets with bricks and caves already. I would need to see some concept art to appreciate a fractal tileset properly. I suspect the linked thread is in order...)