LMAT: Beyonduary: Phases Begone

[Violet CLM]

TIME TO BE REDUCTIONIST. HERE ARE YOUR RULES:

Anyone can add tiles!
Please do not remove other people's tiles without justification!
If you do remove someone else's tiles, please mention it, so that we can stop you if we disagree with your reasons!
Editing other people's tiles is, in general, fine!
Criticism of other people's tiles is also fine! We want the best tiles, not just the first ones posted.
All exceptions, special cases, etc., will most likely be dealt with either by mob rule or by someone authoritative deciding to weigh in on things! I mean, let's be realistic here.
Let's make this look great!


Anyway, this is LMAT, short for Let's Make A Tileset, if you've somehow missed the previous threads. Our theme is a tossup between elemental temple, space temple, spaceport, and airport. It's going to be crazy awesome! Especially if you participate! WAHOO!!!

Here's an initial offering for some ground. It's sort of partway between concept art and actual tiles at this point: if people think it's a good direction I can revise the art to be more tileable, post the component graphics separately, etc., but I didn't feel like getting it all perfect before anyone else had a chance to say anything. This is thinking "space temple" and uses an obviously swiped palette for convenience' sake. Some of the blocks could easily be replaced by computery stuff, for greater variety (and theme), but I didn't get around to drawing any of that for the concept art.
<img src="http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9291/spacetempleimg1.png" />

Let's get this game rolling! Post your ideas! Your tiles! Your critiques! May this work out.

[DodgeS]

You didn't draw this, did You?

[Violet CLM]

I was not expecting that question, but yes, I drew that, as an idea/potential contribution. o.O

[DodgeS]

These blocks and pipes present two other styles. Blocks are more realistic than cartoony pipes. That made me think that some of that is not Yours. Choose one of them, just because it will not look so pretty.

And btw. Tilesets' width should be 320px.

[Stijn]

It's sort of partway between concept art and actual tiles at this point<!>

[Stijn]

In other words: if you think it could be done better, <em>do it</em>. The whole point of this project is having multiple people contribute after all. It's not really a constructive start to critisize the very first concept drawing without improving anything yourself.

[Violet CLM]

Eh, I'd disagree (with Stijn). Sure, saying that tilesets should be 320px is useless, because a) it should be clear from looking at the picture that it's not supposed to be a tile layout (no customizability at all, particularly with the pipes) and b) surely I know how wide tilesets are by now, but it is true that they do not completely mesh, and if this design goes through, that is something that would have to be taken into consideration. Some visual accompaniment to the suggestion is always helpful, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Seren]

Sure, now when I'm in a small village without a PC everything started. My phone doesn't even show the images you posted. I'll help around Sunday, when I'll be back.

[Jgke]

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/tiles.png

Some behind the scenes? (But let's not overdo the area amount)

[Violet CLM]

Heh, very reminiscent of Meccano.

Anyhow, I'm not seeing much feedback, so I take it y'all are pretty neutral to apathetic about my concept. What that means, of course, is that you should do some posting of your own.

[Nonomu198]

I've tried drawing some background, but alas, it's terrible (and besides, I only have mspaint installed atm).

So I'm just going to share with you my idea. Small shadowed buildings. Cliche, but I like it. Plus, it fits, because the tileset takes place in space, which is dark. Also, a rainbow. Which takes place in space. How mystical!

[Jgke]

Also, a rainbow. Which takes place in space.

Something is wrong.

Oh well, it seems that my picture skills have failed :/
Those were supposed to be girders or something like that.

[Seren]

I've tried drawing some background, but alas, it's terrible (and besides, I only have mspaint installed atm).
MS Paint rocks! In MS Paint you can draw everything!


I was trying to do something with the concept art (in MS Paint) and it looks like this:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8642/lmat01.png
Quite nice, but there's still a whole lot of necessary tiles to draw here in such a case so I'm not sure about it.

[Obi1mcd]

Well, I'd better get drawing! This is going to be awesome.

EDIT: On the other hand, I just thought I'd check: what style and perspective is this going to be? Sir Ementaler's MS Paint example is isometric, but most other LMATs have been 2D. Also wondering wether the drawing style is going for cartoony or realistic etc. Just thought it would be better to find out before I draw anything.

[Seren]

As for me, draw whatever you want. I can change this thing to fit the style of everything people will draw.

[DodgeS]

I thought I will help with this LMAT, but when i saw what's going on here, I've decided to not. Maybe because of not-cartoony style [which I am not good at], or maybe not... No offense, but this is not going to be good set, imo. Look at this! It doesn't seem to be spaceship, or even airport, it's reminding some castle or ruins...

[Seren]

I thought I will help with this LMAT, but when i saw what's going on here, I've decided to not. Maybe because of not-cartoony style [which I am not good at], or maybe not... No offense, but this is not going to be good set, imo. Look at this! It doesn't seem to be spaceship, or even airport, it's reminding some castle or ruins...

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2552/lmat02.png
Cartoony style, metal parts and even a big super pretty spacy star. Now you can't refuse.

[Troglobite]

How about something like this for a door inside the spaceport/airport/temple?

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/troglobite/JazzDarkForest/lmat.png

Animated, opening and closing, it will look like this:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/troglobite/JazzDarkForest/door.gif

[FireSworD]

I thought I will help with this LMAT, but when i saw what's going on here, I've decided to not. Maybe because of not-cartoony style [which I am not good at], or maybe not... No offense, but this is not going to be good set, imo. Look at this! It doesn't seem to be spaceship, or even airport, it's reminding some castle or ruins...

The lack of creativity in this post is astounding.

[Seren]

Nice idea. Now make it look better.

...or not, let's decide the style first, so you'll know in which way you should make it better.

[Troglobite]

I personally prefer a bit of a cartoony style, because Jazz himself is a bit of a cartoon, and I don't think fits in as well with overly realistic sets.

[DodgeS]

It's weird.
http://img6.glowfoto.com/images/2010/06/07-1127521024L.png

Nice door :D

[Seren]

I personally prefer a bit of a cartoony style, because Jazz himself is a bit of a cartoon, and I don't think fits in as well with overly realistic sets.

As long as you'll let it stay pretty I don't care, and the more people help the better.

[Seren]

It's weird.
http://img6.glowfoto.com/images/2010/06/07-1127521024L.png

Nice door :D

Actually, that was a joke. And the new color sucks.

[DodgeS]

So ignore this :P

[Seren]

Never. The metal blocks look much better this way (I could do this myself, though - I just rushed because it was a joke), the rest too. I just want the orange back.

[DodgeS]

So make it back by yourself.

[Violet CLM]

I thought I will help with this LMAT, but when i saw what's going on here, I've decided to not. Maybe because of not-cartoony style [which I am not good at], or maybe not... No offense, but this is not going to be good set, imo. Look at this! It doesn't seem to be spaceship, or even airport, it's reminding some castle or ruins...
Our theme is a tossup between elemental temple, space temple, spaceport, and airport.
I would have stuck happily to a space-exclusive theme, but people were pretty enthusiastic about the hybrid "space temple" idea, so apparently we're giving that a shot. The point is, however, that it's intentionally looking like a castle or ruins because that's what people wanted to draw. Now, the two are not strictly incompatible... I refer you to Deckstar, my obvious source of inspiration, or Alien Temple ][, perhaps the only example of such the community's produced so far. Or even an image search for the words space temple on Google. Basically, when you take a space temple, which is apparently what people were enthused to draw, you get a temple with space in the background.

Is this necessarily a good thing? No, of course not. You could easily argue that it's an uncreative blending of the two ideas and that there should be more space aspects in the temple itself, not just stars and planets in the background. In fact, please do, or I agree that this won't be all interesting. But it's ever so much more productive to suggest ideas for how that could work -- specific tiles, constructions, etc. -- or even draw your own tiles for the set to illustrate what you mean, than simply to say that, without your having contributed anything, the tileset isn't going in the direction you'd like it to.

ETA: Since, you have contributed! Thank you!

[Seren]

You used too much colors. Editing this in Paint is pain. Why do you hate me so much?

[DodgeS]

who?

[Seren]

Satan Claus!

[DodgeS]

I edited your 'joke' mostly in Paint, so i don;t know what's the problem. And You didn't like it though... So why do You want to edit this?

[Seren]

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4241/lmat03.png

Mr. Star rocks!

The color's back, everthing uses a not very big amount of color, which vary from each other and still looks fine. I don't like the concave (wth is this word?) blocks, though. But I have no time to change anything right now, maybe later.

Edit:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1333/lmat04.png

Added some tiles and changed a misplaced color on two of the blocks. Using such a tileset would be really annoying when I think about it.

[Raven aka StL]

Try to limit the amount of random b-s that contributes nothing to the project, Elementaler/Dodges.

Also, if someone's going to be picky or selfish with ideas or how the project is progressing at this point, then it's never going to get anywhere.

[Seren]

Try to limit the amount of random b-s that contributes nothing to the project, Elementaler/Dodges.

Also, if someone's going to be picky or selfish with ideas or how the project is progressing at this point, then it's never going to get anywhere.

Read my nick once more. I hate it when people do this.

Anyway, you're quite right, and Dodges is more important for this LMAT than me, since his Traditional Japan is surely better than my Glowee. As long as I don't have a better tileset (just a matter of time), he should decide. Just let the color stay, because of what UR said. Later we can make it multipalette.

[DodgeS]

Traditional Japan has nothing to do with this, and i should not decide about everything by myself. I just said what i didn't like.

[DodgeS]

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3827/scr11.png

No?

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1182/lmat1.png

Oh, and I am mentioning that i removed all of the tiles :)

[Seren]

At least it's tileable. Now make it orange.

No, really, it's okay as it is. Maybe just these more square green things could be more detailed, since the contrast between colors is too big. I mean it should be more like a gradient, I believe. These tiles can be used as a natural ground, while mine could be used as an inside floor of the temple itself.

Edit: Wait, your image doesn't have Mr. Star in it! How can it be a Space Temple without the space part, represented by Mr. Star?

[DodgeS]

If You don't like anything - change it.

My floor doesn't even fit to yours.

[Stijn]

While DodgeS' tiles look nice, I'm not sure how they relate to the tileset's theme... Also, I'd like to work on the tileset a bit, but right now there's two distinct ground types that don't really work together (Sir Ementaler's isometric tiles and DodgeS' 2D ground type). I'm not sure suddenly switching to a totally new ground type is the way to go here (not to mention that it's kind of rude to just ignore all work by others and practically start over new). I suggest that we use Sir Ementaler's isometric tiles and go further with that.

[DodgeS]

As You want, I can use these for my own set.

Yes, I'm being rude.

[Seren]

While DodgeS' tiles look nice, I'm not sure how they relate to the tileset's theme... Also, I'd like to work on the tileset a bit, but right now there's two distinct ground types that don't really work together (Sir Ementaler's isometric tiles and DodgeS' 2D ground type). I'm not sure suddenly switching to a totally new ground type is the way to go here (not to mention that it's kind of rude to just ignore all work by others and practically start over new). I suggest that we use Sir Ementaler's isometric tiles and go further with that.

Oh, so that's what he meant. They're 2D and isometric. I didn't notice. Anyway, they do fit each other. Or rather they will fit, after a bit of modifications. Right now I'm trying to make that thing isometric. Just let me have some time.

[Violet CLM]

I think that Ementaler's tiles (or a less detailed version of my originals) could fit into DodgeS' idea with some appropriate recoloring and deisometrication, as a (layer 4) background. I can post an image of what I mean in a few hours if necessary. I would vote for losing isometricity from Ementaler's over adding it to DodgeS' because isometric tilesets, particularly ones that use the full isometric and not what Disguise calls "Semi-isometric" perspective, are harder to use, take up significantly more tiles, and take more time to make. Also I think that cases like in this thread, where the isometric floor uses the same graphics as the actual wall tile, are easily the least attractive way of making an isometric perspective. It works well in nature tilesets, for instance, because your floor is grass and your wall is dirt or rocks or something and they look distinct and interesting, but I don't feel the tileset <i>gains</i> anything from doing it this way.

ETA: Also I like DodgeS' floor and feel it has some good possibilities for walls that are interesting to look at, especially as it is built on and given more variation.

[Seren]

Too late.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6684/lmat05.png

Yeah, it looks and it is incomplete, but I couldn't take the whole fun myself, so only the basics are done. Force someone to arrange the tiles.

Violet, I don't care what you will do, really. Personally, I like it as it is, but maybe we really should change it. Maybe some poll in a separate thread?

[DodgeS]

It does not fit at all.

[snzspeed]

I think that Ementaler's tiles (or a less detailed version of my originals) could fit into DodgeS' idea with some appropriate recoloring and deisometrication, as a (layer 4) background. I can post an image of what I mean in a few hours if necessary. I would vote for losing isometricity from Ementaler's over adding it to DodgeS' because isometric tilesets, particularly ones that use the full isometric and not what Disguise calls "Semi-isometric" perspective, are harder to use, take up significantly more tiles, and take more time to make. Also I think that cases like in this thread, where the isometric floor uses the same graphics as the actual wall tile, are easily the least attractive way of making an isometric perspective. It works well in nature tilesets, for instance, because your floor is grass and your wall is dirt or rocks or something and they look distinct and interesting, but I don't feel the tileset <i>gains</i> anything from doing it this way.

ETA: Also I like DodgeS' floor and feel it has some good possibilities for walls that are interesting to look at, especially as it is built on and given more variation.

I also like dodges's tiles and ementalers work and would like to see what you would mean.

EDIT: Just viewed some posts here, and I have to make a statement that I think that DodgeS and Sir Ementaler have currently potential to ruin this whole project.

[Violet CLM]

This sort of thing. Ementaler's edits could be used equally well, but it would probably have taken me longer to illustrate what I meant with someone else's tiles, so I took a shortcut. (I also included a proposed slight modification to the edges of DodgeS' walls, because I felt they could use a little more color variation.)

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg2.png" />
<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg3.png" />

ETA: Any person or set of people has the potential to ruin a group project if there aren't enough other people contributing. Where are the twelve users who indicated they would help create an elemental temple, or the nine who wanted to help with a spaceport/airport?

[Seren]

I have to make a statement that I think that DodgeS and Sir Ementaler have currently potential to ruin this whole project.

Thank you.

This sort of thing. Ementaler's edits could be used equally well, but it would probably have taken me longer to illustrate what I meant with someone else's tiles, so I took a shortcut. (I also included a proposed slight modification to the edges of DodgeS' walls, because I felt they could use a little more color variation.)

Okay, let's say it works, but in my opinion, we should use an edit of my tiles. Yours are just too realistic, and the bricks are horizontal. Also, I'm not sure about the colored edges. Maybe they should be colored indeed, but I don't like the way in which you made it.

[Obi1mcd]

DodgeS' tiles look alright, but if it's a space temple I think they should look a bit more rocky, rather than looking like pipes. I also agree that the isometric style can get a bit messy, so maybe we should go with 2D for now. Oh, and I don't think the orange bits match too well...

[DodgeS]

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1950/spacetempleimg2.png

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6148/screen111lmat.png

[Seren]

If we want to make a space temple, I guess we need some inside tiles too. As the bricks in the background don't really remind my tiles, maybe I could just edit my tiles to be 2D and they'd make it in?

[DodgeS]

If we want to make a space temple, I guess we need some inside tiles too. As the bricks in the background don't really remind my tiles, maybe I could just edit my tiles to be 2D and they'd make it in?

Yes, why should they do? They remind UR's tiles.

[Seren]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/46/lmat06.png

Whaddya think?

[DodgeS]

As i said - doesn't fit.

[Seren]

As i said - doesn't fit.

If You don't like anything - change it.

What means: make it fit, make other templish tiles yourself, or wait to let me make it fit later.

[DodgeS]

No offence, but it's ugly and i am not able to make it 'work'.

Download Tile Studio and try to make new tiles better.
----------------------------------------------------

I don't know how can I improve the door... This is not the best, but w/e.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1950/spacetempleimg2.png

[Seren]

No offence, but it's ugly and i am not able to make it 'work'.

Download Tile Studio and try to make new tiles better.

I'm not sure did you choose "make other templish tiles yourself" or "wait to let me make it fit later", but I'm going to work on it anyway. And whatever that thing is, I'm not going to betray Paint, it rocks. And I can draw good tiles in it, really, I'm just not great in space temples. From what I see, you drew not-bad-but-not-space-temple tiles and I drew rather-ugly-more-space-temple tiles. Both are off-topic in a thread which wants good space temple tiles.

[DodgeS]

You drew "more-space-temple tiles"? I can see only orange blocks that are 'rather-ugly' and don't look like space tiles. And how do we know how does space temple look like? Everything here will depend on background.

I use both of the programs simultaneously. Most of my work is done in MS Paint, and 1 effect is added in TileStudio to make it look better.

I'm not sure did you choose "make other templish tiles yourself" or "wait to let me make it fit later", but I'm going to work on it anyway.

I meant: Start to make prettier tiles for this LMAT and forget about those oragne blocks. [Yes, You could edit them, make them fit, but for me it would be easier to start all over again.]

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg4.png" />?

[Seren]

Yes, I was thinking about these too, but I decided they'd remind Sirius too much.

[n0]

ok fine. Here's some solar panels and the top half of layer 7 or 8

http://chaos.foxmage.com/n0/lmatBeyond.png
http://chaos.foxmage.com/n0/lmatbeyond2.png

[Obi1mcd]

Sir Ementaler's tiles and DodgeS' tiles don't match. The orange just doesn't look right with the green, if you ask me. Anyway, I'm not too sure about the angled blocks either. That was the part I didn't like about Sirius.

EDIT: How are these for cave tiles?

http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y324/Obi1mcd/LMAT_01.png

[Seren]

I have a weird feeling that we're going in a wrong direction. I think I'll just return to making this tileset when you'll be sure which tiles will you use. Just remember what's the theme, because right now only n0's tiles and the door remind me space, and only Violet's tiles remind me a temple, while the most important tiles of the tileset (the ground) remind me that cool game Knytt Stories, which has nothing to do with space nor a temple.

About the cave tiles, I think they're too bright. Maybe it's just me, but before I read they're for cave, I thought they're solid. And we already have something like cave tiles, but I guess I'm worrying too much.

[DodgeS]

Who cares about the theme? We will find it out later, what the theme is XD. Elemental temple won, Spaceport was temporary winning...

Cave tiles are cool. I would only remove some stones on corners or even all edges to make it more natural.
Obi, why did You take older version of this "set"? If there wasn't something right you should mention that, if no - try to not miss any tiles.

UR, these angled blocks are not so bad, but we should change its color. Probably, I will do it later.

Sir Ementaler, thank You, it would be easier without You.

[Seren]

Who cares about the theme? We will find it out later, what the theme is XD.

So, Kansas 2nd, good luck.

[DodgeS]

Is it really so important? What's the difference if it will be space temple or ancient Greece?

[Stijn]

A sense of direction is rather useful when working on a tileset, especially with several people. I suppose it's okay to deviate a bit in the name of artistic freedom, but having one coherent overaching theme for the tiles makes it easier to work on a set.

Of course I haven't contributed anything yet, so maybe I should shut up, but then again part of the reason for that is that there seem to be a few conflicting views on what direction to head in with the set and I'd like to wait until that's clear before making an attempt.

[Seren]

Well, basically, just a while ago I decided to delete all of your tiles, because they were too ugly and didn't fit to these:


http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8267/thinkgrounds.png


They're cool and animated, so we should work at them now.

[DodgeS]

A sense of direction is rather useful when working on a tileset, especially with several people. I suppose it's okay to deviate a bit in the name of artistic freedom, but having one coherent overaching theme for the tiles makes it easier to work on a set.

Of course I haven't contributed anything yet, so maybe I should shut up, but then again part of the reason for that is that there seem to be a few conflicting views on what direction to head in with the set and I'd like to wait until that's clear before making an attempt.

Well, You are right, but it's not what i mean. I mean we should draw as it's space temple, but if it will come up as something else it shouldn't be any big problem.

Well, basically, just a while ago I decided to delete all of your tiles, because they were too ugly and didn't fit to these:


http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8267/thinkgrounds.png


They're cool and animated, so we should work at them now.

Primitive. The only thing worth an attention is animated sign.

[Seren]

Primitive. The only thing worth an attention is animated sign.

Of course it's primitive! It's why it died months ago! I'm too lazy to make something new, what anyway wouldn't make it to LMAT, and I didn't really tried to change the theme of LMAT, just show you the pointless of your own doings. If I'd want to change it, I'd rather post this abandoned project (sorry it's so high, forgot before uploading):


http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/6346/redrock.png

It's not my best one of course, but the others are secret.

[DodgeS]

I didn't really tried to change the theme of LMAT, just show you the pointless of your own doings.

I don't think so You did.

[Jgke]

If you are really going to make a space temple, take those Sir Ementaler's tiles, add a space on the back and you have won.

Or, if it is a airport, mess it up with Blade's space tileset.

[DodgeS]

This reminds me some of the tiles from Windstorm Fortress [By BlurredD]. Of course Windstorm Fortress is million times better, just because it uses plenty of various colors and textures, not only two, and it doesn't include so many useless tiles. Yes, this does look nice, but not original and not space-themed too.

[Violet CLM]

DodgeS, please show some sign that you are able to play nice with others. This is a community project, and right now you I feel you are evoking a lot of hostility, repeatedly employing unhelpful language, and showing very little flexibility.

[Seren]

Orange-doesn't-fit-to-green-make-it-green guy says my tileset is uncolored, I should kill myself. Well, I probably would, if not the four facts: it's unfinished, it's abandoned, it's old and it's an idea for LMAT, not for a review. Also, the background and only the background is inspired by WSF. The whole rest can't remind you that tileset, as this thing here is isometric. And I'm not sure which tiles do you find useless, but I guess they're some of these unfinished or hardly ever used. They can be deleted within two clicks of your mouse, it's LMAT.

[DodgeS]

DodgeS, please show some sign that you are able to play nice with others. This is a community project, and right now you I feel you are evoking a lot of hostility, repeatedly employing unhelpful language, and showing very little flexibility.

Of course i can, I just can't stand it, when Sir is thinking that everything he draw is incredible and uh-oh-wow!

Someone has to be ruthless. In other way this would be another ordinary set, because of accepting every tile which someone draw... Now, everything is different. There were so many experienced players working on previous LMATs, now here are only few of them or others less experienced. That's why You should criticize our work more too.

To all of You who do not contribute: You should tell us what do You like or don't like. Give us some advices so we will know which is the best way to make it.

[Seren]

You have no idea how jealous I am about Stijn's choice now. *sigh*

[DodgeS]

He wasn't just so sure how my tiles relate to the theme, he didn't say mine are worse :)

[Seren]

I mean that he decided not to work before the theme is decided. I could do the same.

[snzspeed]

i would like to contribute something too, but i am currently not sure if its really safe, considering you two keep removing each others tiles and stuff like that.
but i guess i can draw something and post it and then it can be added or so.

[n0]

Hey DodgeS! Listen up for a sec, would you?
Look, we all appriciate your contributions, but if you cannot appriciate ours, go make your own tileset. I don't remember if you were around for any of the community completed tilesets, but the idea is we work with each other and each others tiles, bouncing ideas off each other, not just deleting everything and starting over.

Sir E, I know it's frusterating when your every idea is shot down, but getting angry and shooting down DodgeS ideas doesn't help, it just escalates the flames.

Now, be good, or I'll come over there and knock your heads together! :p

[Seren]

I want to have my head knocked! It's funny! Yay!

...Anyway, thank you for doing whatever. Now, in my opinion, we only need some ground tiles. Can I have an idea?

http://www.blogten.jp/wa1380/PhotoLibrary/pwa138044273.jpg


But more spacy, and more templish.

[DodgeS]

It's not that i don't appreciate your contributions... The start of this LMAT was just terrible so i wanted to do something with that, but You wanted to continue work with those orange blocks which don't give any chances on making good tileset. Sir E was putting them to all of his additions instead of making new tiles. Sir E himself said so that those blocks were "joke":

Actually, that was a joke. [...]

So what's the problem? Let's just go ahead with this. Some tiles by Obi, UR or Troglobite were added. Maybe they've been edited too, but it's LMAT, istn't it? Now i am thinking how to make n0's solar panels and UR's angled blocks fit. So You can't say that i reject all of Your contributions. ;/

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1950/spacetempleimg2.png
[Angled blocks are not finished yet]

And Sir want to start all over again... This is not all my fault, I just want to make it pretty ;).

[n0]

...the idea isn't that you take our stuff, edit it to your liking, and then add it to your tileset. The idea is that you make transition tiles from our stuff to your stuff, make new tiles, make suggestions, then we as a group, not you as an individual, decide what to keep and what to toss. Really, go back and read through this LMAT. (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=15720) No where in the first two pages do I see people deleting ideas or even shooting other people's ideas down. That was, IMO, one of the best LMAT's we ever made, and it started out with lots of people having lots of ideas.

[DodgeS]

So where are those people with lots of ideas?

The idea is that you make transition tiles from our stuff to your stuff, make new tiles, make suggestions

So what do I do?

[n0]

Making some event tiles, like vines or suckertubes, would be a good place to start.

[DodgeS]

Later we can make it multipalette.

...

[Seren]

Believe me, if you want one palette to be colorful and one to be monochromatic, it's easier to make a colorful tileset first, not the monochromatic one.

[Violet CLM]

So where are those people with lots of ideas?
Reading between the lines, my guess is that people are not chiming in because they think that their tiles may not conform to your individual vision and you will reject them, and that's not an environment they want to work in. Your role is the same as everyone else's... you can make suggestions, be they for things to draw, new tiles to include, or revisions to make, but you no more than anyone else have the right to decide what will stay, what will go, and what you will edit without warning.

ETA: Tell you what. What you're doing in making revisions, figuring out what goes together, matching styles, etc., is an important part of tileset creation, even community tileset creation, but it shouldn't be the first step. We don't yet know what the predominant visual style or instantiation of the theme will be, but I think the best way to find out is to let people contribute as they will for a while, and then start making decisions and more substantial edits a little later down the line when we find that we've got four sets of tiles in one direction and only one in another. Right now, though, most of us are still pretty close to concept art.

[Obi1mcd]

This is turning into a big DodgeS vs Sir E argument. I agree with UR, everyone just post bits and pieces for now. Nobody knew quite what theme Aftermath was for a while from what I can tell. This is an LMAT, not a DodgeS set.

BTW, the cave tiles were going to be solid, but I thought they were too dark for that. And as for which version I'm using, it's difficult to know which one when the set changes every few hours. Multiple sets, depending on wether you take from DodgeS or Sir E.

[snzspeed]

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/6315/vinetiles.png

Vine tiles :)

EDIT: Also, what about jgke's tiles?

[DodgeS]

Ok, so let's get back to Your version:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9175/zenada.png

[snzspeed]

How old are you?

[DodgeS]

.9.

[Bluespaz7]

Wow...

Do you even understand what the freak a LMAT is?
If you simply refuse to listen to anyone's suggestions, and to work together with others, then get the hell out of this thread. >_>

This is a community set, not just a Dodges set.

[DodgeS]

Where did I say that is my set or something like this? This is not my fault that You can't draw anything interesting... That's why i had to edit some tiles. You didn't like it so i had to get back to Your original tiles.

[snzspeed]

Where did I say that is my set or something like this? This is not my fault that You can't draw anything interesting... That's why i had to edit some tiles. You didn't like it so i had to get back to Your original tiles.

First of all the whole attitude of yours is kinda arrogant which makes it feel like you think its yours. secondly, you're not a tileset making god, like no one here is, so please get back on the earth, thank you very much. Also, no one has said they didnt like what you made or wanted your contribution to be scrapped, but told you to start behaving politely and be nice to others. altough currently its kind of obvious that you're most likely not capable of doing that.

Also, my post isnt suposed to offend or anything. I just think that you're acting very immaturely towards people atm.

[Bluespaz7]

The thing is, what looks good and what doesn't isn't just up for you to decide.
If you dislike how the set is turning out, then don't bother contributing.

Simple.

[Obi1mcd]

This is not my fault that You can't draw anything interesting...

Since when were you better than anyone else?

[Jgke]

I think my tiles do not fit in the theme, someone with skill should fix them :P
Those were actually just for inspiration.

[DodgeS]

Since when were you better than anyone else?

Not "anyone else", just this LMAT contributors :P

Also, no one has said they didnt like what you made or wanted your contribution to be scrapped

They wouldn't complain.

Get the hell out of this thread.

:D No problem ;) You should have said this much earlier. More work on this LMAT would be just a waste of time. Thank You :) I will not disturb You anymore.

[snzspeed]

Not "anyone else", just this LMAT contributors :P.

Congrats, you have completely lost my and some other people's respect towards you. way to go...

I really cant believe, that after being told multiple times to act more politely, you still dont listen. Oh well, whatever.

[DodgeS]

Pity.

[FireSworD]

I might contribute to this later.

Also, dodges, thanks for putting yourself on a pedestal, and as for everyone who puts themself on one, you have offically made yourself available to whatever comments I can throw at you. I will refrain from posting what is on my mind right now, but if I'm provoked I will comment.

[DodgeS]

As I said: I'm out of this. Now everyone is happy and You can start.

[Seren]

It's #106 post in LMAT thread. We didn't decide a theme and we don't have a single sure tile. We're posting about nothing. Now I basically understand why LMATs are dying.

[Seren]

Well, I didn't think these could be a good beginning for this tileset actually, but Jake said they could be, and a while ago snz suggested me basing this LMAT on them too. If they both like it, I think I can ask you all if you would want to work on it?

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/6346/redrock.png

[NovaStar]

I might post a little concept art up. Mind you, it'll just be scans of drawings, but maybe it'll help with ideas.

[Jgke]

Let's just throw the original idea to trashbin and do a tileset from Sir Ementaler's tiles.

[Obi1mcd]

I don't know... The tileset is supposed to be made by the whole community. This is a bit too much to start with in my opinion.

[Seren]

I don't know... The tileset is supposed to be made by the whole community. This is a bit too much to start with in my opinion.

Yes, that's exactly what I thought. While this tileset looks almost completed, it really isn't though. There should be more colors, the vine looks horrible, the background should be changed, the middle part of ground doesn't tile (if I remember well), elemental and space parts could be added and a lot of other tiles. Overally, if you'd delete the tiles which we should edit, probably the only part left would be an empty tile at the upper left corner.

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg5.png" />
Making things more spacey. The internal corner tiles on the right are obviously total placeholders; I need some sleep.

[Foly]

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg5.png" />
Making things more spacey. The internal corner tiles on the right are obviously total placeholders; I need some sleep.

I like the light blue-grey color combination of this, but the stars are a bit meh. I think they are a bit dull (I think you need more black, less stars). When im thinking about a space-elemental-airport-temple, this comes pretty close.

[Seren]

Well, I like it. It's surely not my vision of this tileset at all, but looks cool. I think the background blocks could use a similar gradient like the floor. I know I could do this myself, but with program you use you'll for sure make it better and faster than I in Paint. And corners should indeed be better, but looks like it's my fault by the way, as I forgot to make respective tiles in my own version. Overally great work, we can use it as a nice beginning.

[Violet CLM]

What do you mean by a similar gradient? The reason a gradient on the floor is easy to do is that it's a single surface with a definite top and bottom, but the background blocks need to be able to tile on both axes. (The corners are only half your fault -- the blue light is a more pressing issue, and that's just something I didn't take the time to fix.)

[Obi1mcd]

Well, I like the blue colour scheme, but the background, like Foly said, is a bit off. Also, I'm not quite sure what the stars are for. I thought it was layer 8 at first, but the tiles next to it make it look like 'cave' tiles. Which was it exactly?

[Violet CLM]

Tiles fit together as they did in Ementaler's version:
<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg6.png" />

[Seren]

What do you mean by a similar gradient? The reason a gradient on the floor is easy to do is that it's a single surface with a definite top and bottom, but the background blocks need to be able to tile on both axes.

I mean a gradient on each single square, probably up - down or upper left - lower right.

I'm thinking about a texture for the right part of wall, about adding some tiles and fixing some (Violet, you made one tilebug-looking thingy in your example), but right now I have not enough time to do this. I'll return to work as soon as I can.

[Raven aka StL]

LMATs aren't about one person making a post about a half-finished tileset that slightly fits the theme and then finishing that. It's about constructing a tileset from the ground up with various people contributing.

I'm sick of some people attempting to hijack the project by different methods. If you're not going to respect and accept other contributors, then get the hell out of this thread.

@Violet: That looks very peculiar, but awesome.

[Seren]

Just as you can see, we're not finishing my tileset. UR did a great job to start over just with some edited tiles. That was mainly what I wanted to be done.

And if by "some people" you mean me too, I can get the hell out in any moment you wish. The idea of using that unfinished work was based on 2 other people's opinion, not mine. I really wanted someone else to post a nice type of ground, or just use my first tiles.

[EvilMike]

LMATs aren't about one person making a post about a half-finished tileset that slightly fits the theme and then finishing that. It's about constructing a tileset from the ground up with various people contributing.

I'm sick of some people attempting to hijack the project by different methods. If you're not going to respect and accept other contributors, then get the hell out of this thread.

This tileset is currently progressing fine, and the problems earlier seem to be sorted out. Please do not make any more posts like this unless it's for a good reason; this thread has enough drama in it already. It would be best if it were left to the people who are contributing to decide what LMAT is and is not about.

I don't want to get involved too deeply in this matter, since everyone is doing a good job right now and I think excessive moderation might have a damaging effect. I am going to be keeping a close eye on this thread from now on, but as long as future posts consist of contributions or constructive comments (rather than complaints, personal attacks, outright rejections, etc), I don't think there should be any problems.

[Violet CLM]

Thank you, Mike.

By the way, if someone who wants changes to the star pattern could make those changes, or at least illustrate what kind of changes those would be, that would be great, because I'm not exactly sure what you want darker just through words. More incidental tile drawing from people would be great too. (And even if you don't have PSP/PS and can't figure out how to use Gimp, please don't let that hold you back from drawing tiles by hand. LMAT has definitely incorporated both in the past, and I at least feel a little bit dirty using various filters and things to get me the effects I want.)

[PT32]

needs a few spaceships

[Troglobite]

This is what came to mind for me when I though Jazz space temple tileset:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/troglobite/JazzDarkForest/devan_throne.png

It should probably would have to be shrunk more if it gets used. Also, I have no understanding of shading, so this should probably be treated more as concept art than as something that belongs in the actual tileset.

[NovaStar]

I don't know if anyone saw it, but I sketched some lamps in the concept thread (unoriginal, I know).

[minmay]

I love the idea of Devan as an ancient god, but I think it would look better as a stone statue.

[PT32]

yeah, or a hologram.....
Maybe destruc scenery possibilities?

[DodgeS]

If you're not going to contribute, well, then what are you doing in this thread?

And You? If you're not going to contribute, well, then what are you doing in this thread?

----

I just wanted to encourage the others to draw :O

[Stijn]

I haven't replied for over a week. I am merely doing my duty as an administrator. If all you can do is laugh and point at this thread and say "told you so!", you'd do better not to reply at all.

Also, I'm not feeling particularly divine, so "you" without a capital Y will suffice.

[Seren]

Well, I don't know what was in the deleted post, but anyway yeah, I didn't contribute quite a while. I'm a little busy with about 6 other tilesets and 4 levels at the moment, but I'll find some time to draw more things (like the NovaStar's lamps). Also, I tried to fix Violet's tiles, but it was quite a hard job, and I guess he'd do this better. I improved the door too, but didn't upload them, since they were too bad as for me.

Overally, everything's going on well. Even better than with Valentine's Day or whatever was it.

[n00b]

I love the idea of Devan as an ancient god, but I think it would look better as a stone statue.

Is this along the lines of what you're thinking of? (http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Lijik/Scans/devanstatue.png)
Sorry its not actual tiles and the drawing is kinda crap, just knocked it out while browsing.

[minmay]

Yeah, it is, though I was thinking of something a <i>little</i> more subtle (but either way would work, I'd say).

[EvilMike]

I really like n00b's drawing actually, it fits the style of JJ2 and it's funny. The one troglobite posted is has a bit more of a graeco-roman feel to it which may be more suited to a "temple" theme, though.

Ultimately the version that goes in ought to be determined by who turns it into usable tiles, though.

[Seren]

I guess Violet was right, the LMATs should be 2D indeed. This one is additionally hard to edit and that thing on the beginning didn't help much.

I apologize for killing this tileset.

I'm still interested in working on a tileset with such a theme, though. Not that I'd like to change the basic tiles again after all, but it's dead anyway. Maybe there are still some people which would like to take apart in making a 2D painty space elemental temple airport from scratch? I want to have fun making this sick thing with other people, so I hope you won't leave me alone.

[Obi1mcd]

I'd love to work on the set. But is it actually dead yet? It's only been a little over a month.

[Seren]

I'm not really sure as well, but I took a note that this whole page has no contributions. I tried to do something myself, but this thing, while I love its look, is damn hard to edit. I just didn't want to tell this too late, when really no one would like to work on it. But okay, if you say so, I'll wait for contributions yet a little longer, if something'll really appear, I'll start to (try to) help as well. Just letting you know I'd gladly start the thing from the beginning.

[Obi1mcd]

Maybe starting over again isn't such a bad idea. I'm still a bit confused about what tiles are being used, but I guess a few other people are too. Is anybody else interested in starting from scratch (again), or is it a bad idea?

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/14/128711513886475848.jpg">
<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/SpaceTempleImg7.png">

[Seren]

Haha, yeah, more hard to edit tiles, why not? Isn't actually like half of them repeated or looking repeated enough to be unneeded? Great, I'll do what I can to help it look better.

[FQuist]

Ok I'm going to go on holidays. I fiddled with GIMP a bit but didn't have time to contribute anything. Reading this thread and even some recent replies was galling enough, though. So, here is a small course on creativity, it might do some people some good.

The creative process could be said to exist in two fases: divergence and convergence, the results of which are a product.

http://imgur.com/enhWl.jpg

<B>Divergence</b>: This fase is about creating new ideas, building on old ones, without casting any aside or disparaging them (as happens in the post above me). Instead of (nonconstructive) criticism, it is encouraged to produce alternatives. There isn't any selection process yet: you just throw idea after idea, without judgement. This is also how brainstorming works. Any idea/tile/style is welcome.

Divergent thinking typically occurs in a spontaneous, free-flowing manner, such that many ideas are generated in a random, unorganized fashion. Many possible solutions are explored in a short amount of time, and unexpected connections are drawn. Following divergent thinking, ideas and information are organized and structured using convergent thinking

This fase could be said to be the basis of most of LMAT: you don't kill tiles or hate on them, you just either improve them or, if you cannot, contribute new ones that are better. Keywords: fantasy, experimenting, process-oriented, not caring about prestation, pushing boundaries.

<b>Convergence</b>: this fase could be visualized by a funnel. You start selecting ideas. The ones that don't work are removed. You keep removing branches until you get to the tree. Keywords: results oriented, judgement, reality-based, choice

Right now, too many of you are busy with convergence. Don't do that. That's for when you have enough ideas to finish a tileset with and you need to put one together.

Starting by scratch isn't necessary. I've seen like 4 different styles of tiles, all that can be worked on. It's the divergent fase though, so if you want to add new tiles in a different style, don't request permission to do so, but just do it.

[Seren]

without casting any aside or disparaging them (as happens in the post above me)
Oops, that's a typo of mine. I tried to say I'm pretty thankful that someone actually revived this LMAT and I'll gladly return to that thing, just as I told. Sorry for writing in a hard to understand and a little dull way.

[Violet CLM]

Ementaler, if the colors are a concern due to your paint program, if you'd rather, I can redraw stuff to use a palette. I have little experience in automatic color reduction anyway and this is making me worried in advance.

[Obi1mcd]

If he's using MS paint, then I don't think a palette will help much.

[Seren]

I pretty much forgot I'm using this almighty tool. Why was I even complaining then?

Here's a quick work of mine:
http://a.imageshack.us/img340/6573/lmat12.png
Deleted tiles which looked repeated (I think they were, if they weren't they can obviously come back), helped a little that yellow-black thing, added a round windowlike tile, added ugly glassy floor (I don't have an idea how would it look in JJ2 and it needs an additional layer, so I can understand if it'll be deleted in the end), added a texture for wall tiles (it's quite sucky and almost invisible, maybe it should be changed as well), merged Violet's tiles with my squares, added two additional wall tiles which help to avoid tilebugs.

Sorry for not much new tiles and ideas, and not the highest quality of those, but I'm still a little busy (and lazy, too, and the weather sucks). I just wanted to contribute anything to show I really am interested in working on this LMAT.

Edit: Oh, right, those solid dark red tiles between glassy floor are going to contain glassy floor + transparent glassy tiles + cave squares as they all look in game, after it'll be checked. Hmm, I guess you have no idea what am I talking about, so just let them stay there (or somewhere else near the glassy floor).

[Obi1mcd]

It's looking pretty good, though in my opinion the black ground is a bit off. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

[Jgke]

Here's a pic of my upcoming SP pack.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/screenie-2.png
I mean...
Edit: The tileset. (http://uploading.com/files/b6d8f684/elementemple.j2t/)

[Seren]

The tileset. (http://uploading.com/files/b6d8f684/elementemple.j2t/)

I hope that it's not the best possible color reduction.

It's looking pretty good, though in my opinion the black ground is a bit off.

I thought we overally started this tileset to make it a bit off.

Someone should draw those lamps, and Devan as a god, and door, and spaceships, and perhaps some more fish and a zebra.

[Jgke]

I hope that it's not the best possible color reduction.

It is.

[Obi1mcd]

I thought we overally started this tileset to make it a bit off.
What do you mean?

[Seren]

What do you mean?
It's an elemental space temple airport. It's impossible to make it without merging a lot of different styles, which don't fit each other and make no sense at all.

[Obi1mcd]

I guess I'd better be a bit more specific, sorry. I know the set's going to look slightly (or more than slightly) unrealistic. I'm fine with that. My only issue with the black ground is that it looks more like background scenery of some kind. Like in Jake's screenshot up there where it's used alongside the bricks. I just thought that maybe something in a slightly lighter shade could be used. If I'm annoying you, then sorry, I'll stop complaining and draw something instead.

[Seren]

I thought they're looking okay, but of course your opinion is important as well. I think you should try to draw something instead of them then. A decision between two already existing kinds of ground will be much easier.

[Jgke]

Am I making progress to this set?
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/tiles-1.png
Edit: whoops, deleted some tiles, reupload soon
Edit2: Done

[Obi1mcd]

@Jake: That's kinda what I had in mind.
@Sir E: I was a tad nervous about drawing another ground type, in case it turned out like a DodgeS style argument.
Anyway, hopefully my next post will have something more useful to contribute. Like some tiles. =]

[Seren]

http://a.imageshack.us/img138/3079/lmat13.png
Rather simple lamps. I don't have tools to check how they look animated, so I'll be thankful if someone could check if it's not crap.

[Jgke]

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/lamp.gif
Am I doing it right?

[FawFul]

I can't paint but i would love to see that lamp had 1 rotating things instead of one (for the symmetric) if you get what i mean.

[Jgke]

One instead of one. I think you mean two? :P

[FawFul]

Yes :d.

[Jgke]

I herd you liek lamps
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/lamp2.gif
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/lamp2.png

[Obi1mcd]

http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y324/Obi1mcd/LMAT_02.png
Just some slopes for now, though somebody else will have to fix it for the black ground. GraphicsGale can't handle that I'm afraid.
The lamps look alright, but I'm pretty sure they weren't supposed to be animated. That and they aren't too bright.

[Seren]

Just some slopes for now, though somebody else will have to fix it for the black ground. GraphicsGale can't handle that I'm afraid.
They look great, GJ.
The lamps look alright, but I'm pretty sure they weren't supposed to be animated. That and they aren't too bright.
I know, but I wanted them animated to put some more life in this set. Jake's two-things version probably looks better, but I think I should draw some additional frames. And probably make them brighter if you say so.

[Obi1mcd]

If they're being animated, then yes, another frame or two could help. The only part that would need brightening would be the red bit in the middle. Lamps are for light, after all.

[Seren]

I'm going to have two weeks of vacation now, without any PC nearby. I found some time to redraw the lamps, but they're still not perfect, I must spend some more time on them after I'll come back.
http://a.imageshack.us/img844/7400/lmat14.png
Hope you'll do well without me.

[Obi1mcd]

I modified n00b's Devan statue:
http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y324/Obi1mcd/LMAT_DevanStatue.png
The one on the right uses colours from the JJ2 palette, just because.
I put it colour like Troglobite's, but it could easily be changed into stone. Also, I wasn't sure whether it should stand on the normal ground or on a pedestal in the background. It isn't perfect, and if anybody else wants to have a crack at it, go ahead.

[Jgke]

Looks nice, Typimg on A iphone now

[Toni]

well, in the description, when we finish this tileset, should be this image:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/17/somewhereinspace.png

but here are tiles what I made:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4241/lmat03.png

I suggest you use this image if you wanna re-make some tiles and add other tiles :).

[Obi1mcd]

Looks good.

[Toni]

well another image for the description box :)

(Inappropiate pic edited out. Don't do that again. - FQuist]

but here are new tiles...

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/9572/lmat03w.png

[Obi1mcd]

Now that I'm awake, I might add that the Devan statue isn't done. It needs something to stand on, and I was sort of waiting for an opinion from somebody about wether it should be in colour or just made of rock. Also, there were some vines a few pages back that look a bit better, I think. By the way, which of the two Devan statues did you use? The 8-bit one?

[Jgke]

Now on a proper computer at a proper workplace. What are those layer 3+ layer 4 tiles? What are they for?
Also Toni, could you PM me that inappropriate pic link? ;)
In the meantime, tube junctions coming soon...

[snzspeed]

Now that I'm awake, I might add that the Devan statue isn't done. It needs something to stand on, and I was sort of waiting for an opinion from somebody about wether it should be in colour or just made of rock. Also, there were some vines a few pages back that look a bit better, I think. By the way, which of the two Devan statues did you use? The 8-bit one?

Incase they were the ones I made, they need to be recolored.

[snzspeed]

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/6315/vinetiles.png

Vine tiles :)


Doublepost, sorry.

[Toni]

lol, why?

here are tiles by me and Jake :)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4423/lmat.png

[Obi1mcd]

@snz: Yep, those are the ones I mean.
@toni: I like the crystal key things btw. One of the tube pieces looks a bit off. I'll see if I can modify it to show what I mean.
@Jake: What on earth do you mean by "fail"? It isn't a perfect set, but it could be worse.

[Jgke]

I have no idea that do these look good. Those colors are meant for tube insides, should I do a gradient to them?
Edit: Hmm. Photobucket resized it to 50% size. Wtf.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/lmat.png

[Obi1mcd]

Well, I'm working on some modified tubes, and I'll see if I can post them tomorrow.

EDIT:
Here's what I mean. I also added a few extra tiles for the poles and that criss-cross thing.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4241/lmat03.png
Fixed, I hope.

[Toni]

Actually I wanted to fix poles 1min before I saw this edited post :P. I forgot to add ground on them, and I see you did it, so good job. I think you made great tiles for tubes, and extra tiles for grid :) (!) OH NOEES I see this image is resized -.- heh well done. DId you see jake noticed his image is re-sized to 50% oh my dear God. Now I need to add that tubes to original size. Cool. At least I have "sketch" for how-to-do-it.

P.S. I don't get what you want to solve about that "Fix0rz me plz" tiles :(. I see they're bugged, but what they are for?

[Jgke]

Obi. Your tiles look better than mine, so upload them with a better resolution. Try Imageshack (http://imageshack.us/) this time, it might work better. I'm not sure though.

[Toni]

I tried to add them in better size, but, seems it won't work. :(

[Obi1mcd]

Sorry about that, I'll give ImageShack a go. Not sure why it's doing that, but oh well.
EDIT:
It worked, sorry for any trouble. See my above post.

[Toni]

good job (!) Let's make textured bg somehow :). I will try in PhotoShop, but someone will need to add palettes to this tileset :P. I think it will lose too much colors because of making it a 256-colors image.

EDIT: Lol, it was INCREDIBLY easy to make BG. Also I added all colors (16) of textured background next to it :).

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1333/lmat04.png

[Jgke]

Let's just all throw in suggestions for the BG. I really don't know that would Toni's BG fit.
Though, I dislike these too.
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/4668/bg4x.th.png (http://img541.imageshack.us/i/bg4x.png/)
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3672/bg5y.th.png (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/bg5y.png/)
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6425/bg6u.th.png (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/bg6u.png/)
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2300/bg7c.th.png (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/bg7c.png/)
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3026/bg1r.th.png (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/bg1r.png/)
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1889/bg2xg.th.png (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/bg2xg.png/)
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4702/bg3r.th.png (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/bg3r.png/)

[Toni]

well it is better if more ppl make textured BG, and we choose the best one, than one men make a textured bg, and even if it is not good for everyone (this case, my BG) it will be in tileset. :)

Edit: I see you added some backgrounds (they didn't work last time) and I must to say you, they will look ugly when you decrease their color to 16 colors :P . Also you should make a blue background, not purple, imo.

[minmay]

http://www.cowmuffins.net/stuff/texture.png

http://www.cowmuffins.net/stuff/texture2.png

No idea how these would look in JJ2, and they're probably too intrusive to be used as backgrounds in the first place. But hey, 16 colors!

[DodgeS]

Textured Backgrounds use 32 colors, not 16.

[minmay]

I know. But in an LMAT, using 32 colors in an addition is too many.

[Jgke]

I know. But in an LMAT, using 32 colors in an addition is too many.

It doesn't matter actually that do we use 32 or 16 colors.

[NovaStar]

I'm going to have two weeks of vacation now, without any PC nearby. I found some time to redraw the lamps, but they're still not perfect, I must spend some more time on them after I'll come back.
http://a.imageshack.us/img844/7400/lmat14.png
Hope you'll do well without me.

They still be good lamps, actually having the bracket surround the light thing makes a lot more sense than what I drew xD. Nice work =D

[minmay]

It doesn't matter actually that do we use 32 or 16 colors.
Why doesn't it matter?

[Jgke]

Why doesn't it matter?

Because textured BG will take anyways 32 colors (I think)

[Toni]

rofl :P It is better if you make BG with 32 colors, and there are 32 slots for textured bg in palette. But I think it's not possible to decrease colors of BG to 32 colors. Maybe it is possible, I didn't check. Also you should make it, not me :P.

[minmay]

Because textured BG will take anyways 32 colors (I think)
If you use the right palette entries I believe it's possible to have a working textured background with 16 or even fewer palette entries used, though it will repeat infinitely instead of fading (which is what I wanted my backgrounds to do anyway). If not, it still allows the use of a second textured background with some freedom in colors. Though both would require a fair amount of precision to pull off and it's all a moot point anyway since those are never going to get used.

edit: come to think of it, I believe it can be done with any textured-background-safe palette entries, with sufficient fiddling

[Hammer]

well, in the description, when we finish this tileset, should be this image:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/17/somewhereinspace.png

That image reminds me of something a member posted here, it was a big image with moons and stuff on it, does anyone still have that?

[Jgke]

Looking for some places with textured backgrounds.
Generator (http://www.grsites.com/generate/category/4/)
More (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=textured+background+256x256)

[Obi1mcd]

I don't really think the background is all that important yet. It hardly takes any effort to make one, so we might as well focus on the main tiles for a while longer.

[Toni]

well "main tiles"... what did you mean? Maybe tell us what we should make? For ex. tubes poles vines etc... they're there, in this set, but tell what did you think on when you told "main tiles" :p I don't know, maybe some animations? but what :/ some meteors? stars in background? what? :p I fixed tiles with "Fix0rz me plz" text. I wonder if you meant something like this.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1333/lmat04.png

[Jgke]

Well, they look nice.

[Obi1mcd]

I like the jazz logo. =b
BTW, what I mean't by 'main tiles' was pretty much everything except the background. Eyecandy, event tiles, scenery, everything. I just think the background isn't quite as important as the rest of the set.

[Toni]

well okay, I'll try to make tiles for destruct scenery and more vines like this:
|
---
get it? :p Also ty for liking jazz logo. Is UR here to tell us what tiles would he like to be in this set? ;)

EDIT: Can anyone tell me why do this set needs tiles like black ground left of devan's statue, and grey "structure" of ground up of devan's statue?

[Obi1mcd]

Oh, and I think the 'fix0rz me plz' tiles are alright. Thing is, I've been a tad confused from the start as to where they go. =b
You'd better ask UR...

[Toni]

well, thanks, gimme your MSN if you have it? :p I have idea, but I don't know how to make it. What about making some meteors and stars for layer 1/2(and even 3) flying animated? As I told last time. But here's a new imagination by me :d what about making "hurt" tiles? :) It would be so cool !!1!11!!ONE!!1ONE!

[Obi1mcd]

I'm hopeless at doing foreground scenery. Any attempts I've made at putting any in my own sets were promptly deleted. Since you brought up hurt scenery, would some generic spikes do? Oh, and this set needs some more 'airport'. How about an 'arrivals/departures' board? =]

[Toni]

well I'll try to make some spikes and hurt scenery. It's very good in my imagination :)

[Jgke]

1-minute work.
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4423/lmat.png

[Toni]

GJ Jake. I made some stars and animated hurt tiles, but didn't test will they work :p . If someone can it will be good. Also fix any/all bug(s) if you see.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1333/lmat04.png

[Violet CLM]

Isn't that the mirrow fire?

[Toni]

yup it is, but I was making sth like that, only a blue version. Also I will make it different somehow. Atm this is just an example what I meant to make (a.k.a. experiment). Spikes looks good, but I am not sure about last 2 frames of animation. Can someone make them look better?

[Jgke]

Note: Completely disappearing spikes will not work on this tileset, due to the masks. These masks will go on about the half way on the ground, and hurt will work there just like on spikes.

[Seren]

I'm back, nice to see you're doing well. I don't like a lot of things added and I will later try to do something about those, but overally I'm glad a lot of effort was putten into this LMAT when I was out. I'd like more people to contribute though.

Note: Completely disappearing spikes will not work on this tileset, due to the masks. These masks will go on about the half way on the ground, and hurt will work there just like on spikes.

You're not right. My version of this tileset had such spikes which would work. The hurt event should be placed a well-masked tile above them. It can cause stucking and such but who cares.

[Jgke]

Oh, and this set needs some more 'airport'. How about an 'arrivals/departures' board? =]
<s>Let's forget the airport and finish this space tileset.</s> hmm. How about someone would make conveyor belts? <s>starts working on some</s>

[Toni]

no! Airport can be good. I just need inspiration :P

[Jgke]

We accidentally 1.24 tileset.
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4423/lmat.png

[Toni]

GJ Jake! :) Here is airplane : D I hope you'll like it

http://i34.tinypic.com/v6pvz8.jpg

[Jgke]

Why is the wing on the background is bent, but the one on front is not? Looks good otherwise.

[Seren]

I have a weird feeling that it goes in a wrong direction now.

Toni, I was able to believe you drew the gems, the radars, that fountain-kind thingy, but wtf such an airplane? I know there's basically no rule next to this LMAT saying "add only your own works", but I think it's in a bad taste (besides, they have a bit problem fitting the overall style). I may be wrong, ofc and it may be yours. In both cases, please explain.

Jake, the belts are an edit of Labrat belts. Yes the hell, I noticed. Besides, they're 2D, they won't work with the rest of it, sorry.

Devan looks nice, I'm not sure if placing him on the floor like that is a good idea though. Please note that a rabbit will run there, probably on the level of his right foot.

I'm almost sure something's wrong with the fix0rz tiles. I'll check it more exactly later.

[Toni]

lol SE, we all know I didn't draw airplane and fire... they're there just for example of how things should looks like... I am not master of drawing to draw such a thing ;) . And Jake's belts are of Labrat tileset. We all know it (I hope), too. :p I was just kidding when posted that airplane. Can't you see it has about 30 colors or more in it :D.

[Obi1mcd]

Well, like Sir E said, I don't think the mirrow fire and the labrat belts should be in this. Yes, the Devan statue could use a lot more work, and I'm still not too sure about the up/down spikes.

[Seren]

Toni, I'd like you to rather post a very poor picture of an airplane we all can improve here, than someone else's work. Maybe that's just my taste, but I don't like ripped stuff in tilesets (even if it's there just for inspiration or whatever). I hope that the rest of the tiles you added (not counting the fire and the plane) are yours, right?

Obi, thanks that you agree with me, just please don't call me "Sir E". Of all the shortcuts of my nickname i dislike this one the most. The "up/down" spikes are probably still going to be edited, like everything.

Jake, start to draw and don't worry about the quality of your pictures. As I said, we're all here able to improve other people's tiles.

I'd also like to ask you guys for not automatically adding to the tileset everything you drew. This is because of the tile placement and the power of my PC (you have no idea how damn long is this site loading for me now). Please, post your drawings alone, without repeating the rest of the set, thank you.

[Toni]

SE, they're all mine lol! And ok I will not post the whole set anymore.

[Toni]

added tile for destruck scenery, but it really need more work. I don't know to fix it. Also there is a cool background. Oh did I forget to tell you there's a fire? ;)

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/598/image2qwu.png

[Seren]

I don't want to complain, especially since I didn't draw a single tile for this LMAT for a lot of time, but what actually is burning? Also, isometric destruct scenery rarely looks well. I will rather think of some way to make a 2D scenery fit than try to improve your tile.

[Toni]

whatever, just to be good :)

[Obi1mcd]

Well, I suck at animating, but I could have a go at the fire. And yeah, isometric destruct scenery just looks wrong to me.
Sir Ementaler: Sorry 'bout that. Is SE alright? =]

[Jgke]

That block tile could be used, for instance, as a appearing trigger scenery block or just 1x1 ground tile.

[Toni]

Well, the fact is that it is not useless tile ;)

[Obi1mcd]

It's been almost two months since the last post. It's pretty safe to say that this LMAT isn't going anywhere. If you ask me, the main issue here is that the drawing styles of the different people contributing aren't matching up well. I mean, take my/n00b's Devan statue. It's too cartoony for the rest of the set, and it doesn't match. I'm not sure exactly how to solve the problem, but does anybody else still want to work on this? I love the concept of an LMAT, but this one is struggling.

[Toni]

I wanna help, but I agree with you. We can't match up our tiles :(

[DodgeS]

xD.

[Seren]

xD.
Two letters and a dot just explained me cooba's hatred towards Poland.

It's been almost two months since the last post. It's pretty safe to say that this LMAT isn't going anywhere. If you ask me, the main issue here is that the drawing styles of the different people contributing aren't matching up well. I mean, take my/n00b's Devan statue. It's too cartoony for the rest of the set, and it doesn't match. I'm not sure exactly how to solve the problem, but does anybody else still want to work on this? I love the concept of an LMAT, but this one is struggling.
I see. So what now? Make the tiles fit (in the drawing style sense)? I can try if you wish, shouldn't be that hard, but first tell if that's what you were expecting when reviving it.

I'd also like to know opinions of the other people, the ones which wanted to contribute before. I believe it seemed pretty unsafe to post anything some time ago, but I think it's not the case anymore. I'm interested if you don't contribute due to the bad quality of the tileset or because of the first impression when entering the thread few months ago - or is it a bit of both? Would you contribute if I'd indeed make the thing fit and look good? Because I'm still lacking of people, it's just not enough of fun to work.

[Obi1mcd]

For one, I'm not asking anybody to try and do too much themselves. That wouldn't work either. I admit that the quality is putting me off. We have some nice tiles for a base, but the majority of the eyecandy tiles look cheap, frankly. I'm tired right now, so if I sound rude, that's why. I don't want to start over entirely, but I think some of the tiles need to be scrapped. I'll try and adjust my drawing style to match the rest of the set, but again, this is a multi-person set and I don't want it to seem like I'm being pushy or anything. That said, I'm still interested, Sir Ementaler seems interested, and that makes only two. DodgeS is contributing nothing to this thread and I am restraining myself.

[Troglobite]

Mainly for the sake of actually posting potential tileset material on this thread, I could make this little spinny thing I made in blender into a tile, if it seems to fit the theme/drawing style.
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/troglobite/JazzDarkForest/spin1.gif

[TheKax]

TIME TO BE REDUCTIONIST. HERE ARE YOUR RULES:

Anyone can add tiles!
Please do not remove other people's tiles without justification!
If you do remove someone else's tiles, please mention it, so that we can stop you if we disagree with your reasons!
Editing other people's tiles is, in general, fine!
Criticism of other people's tiles is also fine! We want the best tiles, not just the first ones posted.
All exceptions, special cases, etc., will most likely be dealt with either by mob rule or by someone authoritative deciding to weigh in on things! I mean, let's be realistic here.
Let's make this look great!


Anyway, this is LMAT, short for Let's Make A Tileset, if you've somehow missed the previous threads. Our theme is a tossup between elemental temple, space temple, spaceport, and airport. It's going to be crazy awesome! Especially if you participate! WAHOO!!!

Here's an initial offering for some ground. It's sort of partway between concept art and actual tiles at this point: if people think it's a good direction I can revise the art to be more tileable, post the component graphics separately, etc., but I didn't feel like getting it all perfect before anyone else had a chance to say anything. This is thinking "space temple" and uses an obviously swiped palette for convenience' sake. Some of the blocks could easily be replaced by computery stuff, for greater variety (and theme), but I didn't get around to drawing any of that for the concept art.
<img src="http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9291/spacetempleimg1.png" />

Let's get this game rolling! Post your ideas! Your tiles! Your critiques! May this work out.

I don't realy know if it is going the wrong way, but I actually would have wanted to see a templish tileset, something awe inspiring, and more ancient, more complicated and more sophisticated comparedt to the rabbits current culture... We kind of lack that kind of tileset... Yes, I'm pointing it in the way of something like starcraft's Xel'Naga and Jak&Daxter's precursors (google 'em.).

[Seren]

I don't realy know if it is going the wrong way, but I actually would have wanted to see a templish tileset, something awe inspiring, and more ancient, more complicated and more sophisticated comparedt to the rabbits current culture... We kind of lack that kind of tileset... Yes, I'm pointing it in the way of something like starcraft's Xel'Naga and Jak&Daxter's precursors (google 'em.).
I'm worried that people are already tired about changing the whole theme, if that's what you're trying to suggest.

In my opinion we should stop adding tiles for a while (*like anyone would be adding any last times*) and edit the existing ones until they fit to the drawing style we choose. I recommend making everything fit to Devan statue, probably the best tiles in this LMAT. I wait for your opinions (especially from people which are planning to be active) and in weekend I'll try if I can help this thing.

[Toni]

but hey, what will happen with all those nice tiles?

[Obi1mcd]

I recommend making everything fit to Devan statue, probably the best tiles in this LMAT

You kidding??? That thing probably only took 5 minutes...
But whatever. The theme isn't the issue, I agree. It's a good, relatively unique one, and a good tileset could be made with it. I really don't want to start all over, either. Perhaps I could have a go at modifying some of those tiles, but all I really do is blur them with a dark outline.

EDIT:
This is sort of along the lines of what I mean:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/691/lmatmodcompare.png
You get a cartoony look, but you instantly lose all the texture detail.
Oh, and while the original uses 281 colours (for those three tiles), the modified one uses 1,340. Colour reduction is going to be a nightmare for this set.

[TheKax]

True, I just love the Devan statue. Would it be any better shuold we change the palette from blue hues to yellow ones? I might actually ty this out... I'm really wanting to put my paint shop pro 7 into use (albeit I stole it from school's computer class... It works with files copied on a USB stick :S ), and palette suite, too.

Obi1, your idea for cartoonier look is not any bad, but I agree, color reduction = murder.

PS. "the original uses 281 colours" three tiles? even that needs colour reduciton... you people are doing this in the order tiles first, palette second... I wuold possibly have done the palette first but whatever. Hope the reduction goes well.

PS2. I reall want the labrat belts deleted. They don't fit in at all.

PS3. I handled a colour reduction (quite poorly to admit), made it a palette that contains some gradients to use as well as the usual JJ2 colours, but I know I made it hastily and it mostly sucks, as might be visible in the image itself. But at least it is in (IMO) better colour scheme and has a 256 colour palette... No s*** I forgot the empty top row in palette in my haste... Compiling errors a plenty... I was going to upload it but now I think doing that is a mistake. It's still here, but do not consider this a canonical edit since I mostly ruinde the flames and the star background.

But here is it. Shame on me, job not well done.
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8088/spacish.png

I hope you still get the idea for what I wish it to look like. And we need tiles for arcane constructions, gears.

[Toni]

where did you see yellow space? :P It's more like blue, dark blue, and black. But if you wanted to suit this as a temple, then good job. I like it, maybe too colors are lost. We really should try to edit black background. It takes a lot of colors. And if we're going to make this again, we should start with orange/red/yellow theme.

[Jgke]

We really should actually do a new base to this tileset, it still looks too much like SE's original. And, what happens if we make these tiles into red theme...?
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/6346/redrock.png

[Violet CLM]

...well, yes, it continues to look like what it was based on, that's because the original tiles looked good in the first place. If we started over you could make the same complaint later down the line that the revised tileset would still look like whatever new tiles people first drew.

[Jgke]

Hmm, true.

[Toni]

Jake that is excellent, brilliant, superior etc :D Great job! We really should continue in that way. After the tileset is finished, we can try to make blue, yellow, and green version of it.

[Seren]

Hey, Violet actually showing up here. I must say I was kinda waiting for this with starting to work.

I liked the orange-schemed idea at the very beginning, but no time to change it now imo. There can always be a second version of the tileset.

Jake, this looks like the best tileset ever, gj.

Obi, it's rather nice. When you're done, post it, we'll compare the 3 versions (unedited, yours, mine) and decide on which to work on.

Okay, I get myself to work, this time seriously.

[Obi1mcd]

<s>To fix the LMAT, we must erase everything and make a christmas-themed set by december 25th.</s>

All kidding aside, I have a few more suggestions/ideas, though I haven't yet done any more drawing. By the way, I'm using links instead of images since my internet connection doesn't seem to like my IMG tags.

We have something that we can work with easily, and there's no point trying to change the art style. I do think, however, that some of the tiles need to be discarded. So I went through the main image, though it isn't the latest one, and I've removed some tiles based on how they match with the style and perspective, and slightly due to personal opinion. From the top:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1140/lmatremoved1arrows.png

The arrows. The image quality is somewhat low, they use an excessive amount of colours, but mostly, they're somewhat plain. I'm pretty sure we could come up with something better.
Next, the Devan statue:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4290/lmatremoved2devan.png

Main issue here is the style. It's a bit too cartoony for the rest of the set. That, and I'm no good at animating.
After that, there are some sattelite dishes and some sort of stone altar:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2669/lmatremoved3sattaltar.png

These don't match the drawing style either, really. The perspective seems off on the altar-thing, though it might be just me, and they use way too many colours.
Then we have some crystals:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2496/lmatremoved4crystals.png

At first glance, I thought these were some kind of keys, Keen 4 style, but the ones on the walls animate, I think. Again, slightly colour-heavy, unmatched drawing style, and the bases of the crystals in the ground don't have matched perspective.
Sucker tubes:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3345/lmatremoved5suckertubes.png

Nothing too bad here, just the fact that they're pretty plain and generic. The entrances/exits for the tubes that I made don't match the style, though that could be fixed easily enough.
Lastly, the metal mesh tiles.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8167/lmatremoved6mesh.png

Assuming these are unmasked, they should be darkened slightly. Only real issue. That, and I'm not quite sure why they're in a space temple. Again, personal opinion only.

As a base, I'm thinking these tiles could be used:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1209/lmatmain3.png

The main thing that needs fixing, though, is the palette. The palette edit that Kax posted shows how difficult it can be to reduce it. Am I right in assuming the red tiles we based this off have a palette, Sir Ementaler? If so, we could edit the palette of those and replace some parts.

Just suggestions, though. Like I said, I didn't use the latest image, but that's just laziness on my part. The other tiles added since the image I used (eg. the Jazz Jackrabbit logo) could be put in.

Anybody agree/disagree?

[Seren]

I have a weird feeling that Toni may dislike this idea. But I told him once too, his drawing style is good and somewhat inspirational, but I never saw anyone else doing similar things in tilesets. Also, color reduction seems to kinda kill his works, like it did in Wild (http://www.jazz2online.com/downloads/6291/wild/).

However I agree with most of the things you threw out, I'm going to still try to remake the whole image. In case of any larger progress with your version, I will probably stop and join, but as for now, I think I have something worth working on.

Palette. Uh... Well, that's a tileset from a lot of time ago, when I was a noob in both, drawing and color reduction. And, while the artistic part of it came out rather well, just too plain and textured (I don't use textures anymore, imo they break tilesets), the palette is somewhat unusual. Or, simply put, useless. You can as well make a new one, won't do much difference. Besides, Violet made a gradient which probably changed enough not to let us find a use for the first version's palette.

And also he made those poor fixorz-needing tiles and left them for their own...

[Toni]

We really should make red tileset (Jake's example), blue (just edit the palette), and a green one. Maybe yellow, but I'm not sure.

I agree with every word with Obi1mcd.

SE, I don't dislike your idea.

[Zerg]

Here are some updates... (a window, a space ship, and a pole)
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/MetalZerg/?action=view&current=v6pvz8.jpg
I never made things like this before, I think the palette is all right.:-)

[Obi1mcd]

Well, first off, it seems as though you're having the same problem as some of us had earlier. The image has been resized to 50% by photobucket. Try uploading it to imageshack. Also, I haven't downloaded it, but did you say it has a palette???

[Zerg]

ok I will try it. Sorry, wrong word :) colour
Here it is.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9616/v6pvz8.jpg

[Toni]

1st why .jpg?
2nd why the part of the gun on the right side doesn't fit with the rest of 'image'?