JCF reputation feature

[Dermo]

I know this is more of a JCF improvement idea, but how about the ability to "like" somebody's reply or thread. Rather than having to say I second that, or I agree with that, why not have a "I second this" button and it'll display who seconds that post or thread?

Sorry for my grammar, btw. I'm tired :P but seriously. I know it sounds very Facebook-ish but I think it would work out quiet nicely.

[Speeza]

Yeah that would be great, in fact I would actually like to "like" your post instead of replying this way.

<s>How about a much needed poke button as well </s>

But yeah a like button would be good.

[cooba]

I keep suggesting to FQuist that the JCF should have a reputation system enabled but he's like "hmmmm" every time

[Toni]

yeah, that is good. Add User's posts maybe, too?

[Violet CLM]

User's Posts you can find by clicking on anyone's name and selecting "Find More Posts by...", unless I'm totally misunderstanding your request. Reputation would be nice except I probably couldn't get millions of retroactive points. :(

[Stijn]

I enabled vBulletin's reputation feature. Let's see if it works.

[cooba]

Thanks Stijn! Might be a good idea to make an announcement out of it.

I also completely forgot how does vBulletin calculate reputation

[Stijn]

I'm not 100% sure either. I think you can give people reputation for a post, and the amount that is added/substracted depends on your post count/reputation/registration date/user rank.

[Violet CLM]

I'm no admin over here, but I do think an announcement would be good, at least telling people what rep is and what are or are not good reasons to give it to people.

[Stijn]

Yeah, an announcement will be posted once it's properly set up. Still fiddling around a bit with the settings.

[FQuist]

I might add that there shouldn't be much worries about adversive effects of this change. It's a tryout. If it does not improve anything, it would be made to disappear again. It'd probably best though if someone reminded us of that, if it happened.

Edit: by the way. If regular users can't see post counts, I'm fine with enabling them again. We turned them off during the time that people warred about who got the most posts, and to promote quality over quantity. Quality is, of course, still a great goal, but it's not like the quantities are so high nowadays.

[plunK]

How does reputation work?

[Stijn]

With the http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/images/buttons/reputation.gif button at the lower left bottom of a post you can give a poster reputation for that post. Reputation given can be negative or positive, depending on what you think of the post. The amount added or substracted from the receiving user's reputation count (displayed under their username) depends on the user rank, post count and registration date of the one giving or taking reputation.

The idea is that people with high reputation generally contribute well to the forums, and probably that it therefore encourages people to post better.

[Seren]

Is it possible to have <0 reputation? If yes, I expect it to happen quite soon in my case.

[Stijn]

I think it is, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

[Torkell]

I'm no admin over here, but I do think an announcement would be good, at least telling people what rep is and what are or are not good reasons to give it to people.

I was all for turning it on quietly and seeing if anyone noticed...

[Dermo]

Reputation idea: How about we change the thing from a little green block to something more... Jazzy? Also, I hope this doesn't scare people from posting anything in fear that it will give them negative reputation, I never really thought about that. But I'll break the ice and make the first suggestion. Also, a name system would be cool, though I like the idea of giving yourself your own custom title at the same time, so I'm not sure, that'd be something to take a popular vote on.

But maybe, instead of a green block, make it a carrot... The carrot looks more rotten as your reputation goes down and turns brighter orange as your reputation goes up? Or maybe you start as a seed? I'm not sure, that's something somebody more creative than me would have to come up with, but I'm all for changing the green block to something related. Come on guys, lets Jazz this up! (bad pun, sorry)

[Jgke]

*votes for carrot*

[Stijn]

Reputation idea: How about we change the thing from a little green block to something more... Jazzy? Also, I hope this doesn't scare people from posting anything in fear that it will give them negative reputation, I never really thought about that.
The idea is that people won't post useless stuff since that'd get them negative reputation. So overall the post quality should increase. Whether or not this works remains to be seen of course.

But I'll break the ice and make the first suggestion. Also, a name system would be cool, though I like the idea of giving yourself your own custom title at the same time, so I'm not sure, that'd be something to take a popular vote on.
Do you mean a custom title based on your reputation?

But maybe, instead of a green block, make it a carrot... The carrot looks more rotten as your reputation goes down and turns brighter orange as your reputation goes up? Or maybe you start as a seed? I'm not sure, that's something somebody more creative than me would have to come up with, but I'm all for changing the green block to something related. Come on guys, lets Jazz this up! (bad pun, sorry)
That's a good idea, I'll look into whether it's possible to change the icon (it's handled by the forum software, and I don't know how easy or difficult it is to change it).

[Dermo]

Do you mean a custom title based on your reputation?

Precisely. Maybe you start out at the title "newbie" and work your way either up, or down, getting new titles as your reputation goes up or down? I'm not sure if something like that would be possible, but I also like being able to give yourself a custom title so I'm not sure, that all depends on what the members have in mind. Either way, I like this reputation system so far.

[Seren]

Maybe you start out at the title "newbie" and work your way either up, or down, getting new titles as your reputation goes up or down?
"Newbie" sounds like a rather bad idea, as it doesn't really say anything about the reputation, rather the post count. If someone starts with reputation 10, then he posts very well to like 100 and later he does some drunk posting back to 10, title "newbie" doesn't really fit well.

But overally, I like both the carrot and the title idea, as long as they'd not take too much space.

[Torkell]

Precisely. Maybe you start out at the title "newbie" and work your way either up, or down, getting new titles as your reputation goes up or down? I'm not sure if something like that would be possible, but I also like being able to give yourself a custom title so I'm not sure, that all depends on what the members have in mind. Either way, I like this reputation system so far.
At the moment the current title is visible by hovering over the green block (for example, your one currently says "Dermo is notorious for his worthless posts").

How about changing the template to include the text next to the green block, instead of as a custom title. Something like:


<a class="bigusername" href="member.php?u=1620"><b><i>Torkell</i></b></a>
<span class="smallfont"><b>Stealth Ad<b></b>min</b></span>
<span class="smallfont">Beware the Jabberwock</span>

<span class="smallfont"><a href="member.php?u=1620"><img src="image.php?u=1620&amp;dateline=1247607812" width="48" height="48" alt="Torkell's Avatar" border="0" /></a></span>

<span class="smallfont">Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: By the tumtum tree
Reputation: Torkell is doing well so far (22)</span>

[Dermo]

I never would have noticed if you hadn't told me that. That layout definitely looks better, at least to me anyways.

[Nonomu198]

Hmm, I thought it always says "x is doing well so far".
Dermo is notorious! Wait, we didn't need the rep system to know that.

[Jerrythabest]

I know from other vBulletin forums that reputation can go below zero.

I remember a page somewhere in the UserCP that shows the last X people giving you reputation, along with the post for which you got the reputation and the user's comment. I can't find this page on the JCF, though I'd bet we have that too. Anyone found it?

[Violet CLM]

<a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/usercp.php">Right here.</a>

[Jerrythabest]

Hmm, for me the UserCP only lists subscribed threads with new replies. Maybe it's simply not there because I haven't got any reputation yet.

But thanks anyway :)

[Dermo]

So when I was looking to see what reputation was given to me, I noticed this:

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/images/reputation/reputation_balance.gifhttp://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gifhttp://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif

I'm assuming red means negative, green means positive, what does white mean? Does that mean it didn't change at all?

[Jerrythabest]

Zero?

[Dermo]

Not Zero, it was on the page where I was looking to see what kind of reputation I was being given. And one was white. Does that mean nothing was given, nor taken? Why not?

[Seren]

Its name is reputation_balance.gif (the others are _neg.gif and _pos.gif) so I'm guessing it's like "nothing was given, nor taken" indeed. If I'd know how is reputation system configured, I could easily say what exactly happened. The most probably someone with low reputation, post count and time spent on JCF tried to rate your post and the calculated score was 0 or so.

[Jgke]

I'd really be interested to know who actually has downvoted my posts...

[Jerrythabest]

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/usercp.php

It should show up here.

[Seren]

No, it shouldn't and fortunately doesn't. The things showed are: if received reputation is positive or negative (or in Dermo's case "balanced"), which post was rated, date and the reason of rating. I can easily imagine what would be the effect if people could check who's giving them negative rep.

[Jerrythabest]

Oh, okay. That's probably a board setting then. I know vBulletin is capable of listing the names there too from other boards.

[Torkell]

I've split this from the Future J2O thread.

Dermo: the grey dot means that 0 reputation was given.

The amount of reputation power you have depends on how long you've been a member, how many posts you've made, and how much reputation you have. There's also limits on how much reputation you can give per day and how often you can hit the same user (unless you're an admin... }>).

Oh, and those who are notorious for their worthless posts cannot give out reputation :D

[Torkell]

I'd be happy if I could see more than just the two most recent comments though. (Edit: or are those the only ones I've got? Does it mean I've received positive reputation from an oldbie/admin?)
You've only received two lots of reputation.

[cooba]

Perhaps you should make reasoning mandatory.No.

[Stijn]

Reasoning is mandatory for negative reputation already. I do occasionally check recently given reputation ratings and will delete those that seem unfair, though I haven't needed to do so yet (after all, it's mostly opinions). Positive reputation actually often does get a comment with it, and if not, who are you to complain anyway? You just got your reputation level boosted after all ;)

[Torkell]

I've so far received two instances of positive reputation, and neither had a comment. Now, having a comment that said why I'd been given positive reputation would be nice, but I'm not going to complain. It's positive reputation after all :)

[Torkell]

You sure?
Ok, three, and only one with a comment. I last checked my reputation list a couple of days ago.

Thanks, btw.

[spaceboy]

The only thing that's wrong with the rep system imo is that it's anonymous. It shouldn't be. For instance, people abuse it to write me silly comments. Otherwise it's a welcome improvement.

[Torkell]

The only thing that's wrong with the rep system imo is that it's anonymous. It shouldn't be. For instance, people abuse it to write me silly comments. Otherwise it's a welcome improvement.
You could argue that one either way - for example, if reputation wasn't anoynmous, then people may be reluctant to leave negative reputation.

I should probably add that admins can see all reputation comments, and so we know who's given *us* negative reputation...

[Dermo]

I agree with Torkell. Though I think we should be able to see who's giving us positive reputation at least...

[Torkell]

I can guess who gave you negative reputation without admin powers :)

Now, I could be really evil and rephammer those who gave me negative reputation... but that would require effort :P

Besides, rephammering people for negative reputation goes completely against what I argued in my previous post. Unless they're spambots, in which case they can get rephammered into the ground.

[Dermo]

I'm against. Return-of-favour concern. Besides, being anonymous allows you to agree with people you would never publicly agree with...

However, you could easily positive rep somebody now saying "hey it's dermo, rtf"

[Nonomu198]

Fools, your rep system has charged my account with super-radioactive cynical rays!
Mere mortals, no longer shall I be known as IconGuy. For now I am Lurker-Man, bearer of the amazing power of sending anonymous PMs, seen only by the most nosy of admins!

So I've got this rep thing totally out of control.

[Jerrythabest]

Hmm, interesting thought to use it as an anonymous PM service. Can't wait 'till Valentine's day :p

[spaceboy]

Got neg-repped with the reason: "Actually behaving worse than the contributor you disparage - an admin" for a post that got praised by TONS of other boardies. Someone must've had a bad day and thinks he can prove the world he knows better than all because somewhere deep in the internet waves he's in position, huh?

These sorta stuff makes me not want to post in this forum.

[Dermo]

I'm doubting that that was actually an admin...

[spaceboy]

When I think of it, you probably deserved that. Just saying, seeing you attack people who have only expressed disagreement with your actions without even flaming you.
Something tells me that you are this "people".

Lame.

[spaceboy]

I hope you are not accusing me of signing comments as someone I am not.

But yes, now that you wrote this post, I am among these people.
Lame. Don't just go and randomly tease other, older users you don't even know. Apparently you are quite new in this place and need to learn this.

[spaceboy]

You bore me to tears with your constant need for attention. Go bug someone else now.

[Dermo]

Lame. Don't just go and randomly tease other, older users you don't even know. Apparently you are quite new in this place and need to learn this.

Ok Hunter has been a VERY active member from the time he started posting in this community. He's very witty and intelligent with a slight aggravation issue.

You on the other hand, I've seldom seen or know much about. He's a way more contributory poster than anything I've seen from you.

On another note, reputation is a free market, not something to whine over, just something to accept and carry on with, to help you learn from your mistakes or positive points when posting.

I'm not to show respect towards people incapable of acting their age, regardless of the time they've been around for. No need to comment any further, I don't intend to reason with you.

Not to say that you didn't provoke the post that followed...

You bore me to tears with your constant need for attention. Go bug someone else now.

Discuss.

[spaceboy]

bla bla bla
Huh? What were YOU doing in my friend list? Must've been drunk.
"Your friendship with Dermo has been broken".

Also, I've got another account with over 4,000 posts in it.

"Are you a full time idiot or is it just a hobby?", still standing the test of time apparently.

[Torkell]

I'm mildly amused that the forum thanks you for giving negative reputation.

[Dermo]

bla bla blah

As I recall, you added me, fool.

Also, I've got another account with over 4,000 posts in it.

ooo lets add pointlessness to pointlessness

"Are you a full time idiot or is it just a hobby?", still standing the test of time apparently.

I feel insulted :( I would never expect this from you.

[spaceboy]

As I recall, you added me, fool.
No. The only people I've added in this forum are Mave and IconGuy (patriotism) so far.

[cooba]

Your friendship request has been sent to spaceboy

Click here if your browser does not automatically redirect you.

R3333333p add

[spaceboy]

Done. ;)

EDIT: Hunter tried to add me as a friend. You're gonna have to learn how to act with people before you try and make friendships with them. This will be yr first lesson.

[spaceboy]

You bore me to tears with your constant need for attention.
*snooze*

[Violet CLM]

not convinced any of this is on-topic

[Troglobite]

I'm mildly amused that the forum thanks you for giving negative reputation.

Well, theoretically, negative reputation should be just as important as positive reputation in encouraging on topic posts and discouraging off topic stuff. And you're certainly not going to get any thanks from the person you reputationed, even if it wasn't anonymous.

[Grytolle]

You on the other hand, I've seldom seen or know much about. He's a way more contributory poster than anything I've seen from you.All the tournaments he arranged (using this forum) were worth a lot more than any number of occassionally worth the read posts by Hunter:god:

[spaceboy]

All the tournaments he arranged (using this forum) were worth a lot more than any number of occassionally worth the read posts by Hunter:god:
He didn't even know who I am, funny kid.

JJ2WC for life indeed! :god:

[Grytolle]

I'm not saying I approve of r3p's general forum behaviour, I just refuted a bad argument for him

[Dermo]

All the tournaments he arranged (using this forum) were worth a lot more than any number of occassionally worth the read posts by Hunter:god:

All I remember was him joining a server and flooding it with:

"XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
XDDDDDDDDDD
drmoo, give me butt sex!"

and so on...

[spaceboy]

Lulz. That was AJazz/ZarBoN, not me (who btw RULED!!).

[Grytolle]

Nice use of "who"

[Nonomu198]

Lulz. That was AJazz/ZarBoN, not me (who btw RULED!!).

Don't lie sweetheart ;)

[Speeza]

Lulz. That was AJazz/ZarBoN, not me (who btw RULED!!).

What ever happened to him anyway? I always thought he was your crazy cousin or something r3p :P

[snzspeed]

Perhaps you should indeed remove it. I dont think it is a good idea, especially with all the people here who dont have any sense of humor.

EDIT: Just noticed I got negrepped in jj2+ thread by TreyLina because I made a sarcastic post about Lori start pos. Get some sense of humour please!

[Speeza]

Perhaps there should be a poll. At least then we would have stats showing who wants reputation etc. Yes, No, Don't mind ?

[Stijn]

I really can't leave these forums alone for even one weekend!

[Violet CLM]

I still think we should just have some more structured rules and/or recommendations for use. Clear cases like solving someone's problem in a help thread or creating/discovering something cool are good, but I am more hesitant about "I don't agree with your opinions" negreps and things like that.

[minmay]

As it is, while the system doesn't really reflect anything important or useful, it reflects, well, reputation, which is surely its purpose? If you start regulating it, it won't do that anymore.

[Nonomu198]

Regulating the quality of reps? What's next, the quality of posts?
I'm pretty sure people come to these forums to express themselves and talk about a rabbit game, not to be technical help guys and hunt reputation points (although helping people is nice).

[Obi1mcd]

Nah, reputation shouldn't be regulated. Like minmay said, it shows your reputation. Even if people negrep you because they don't agree with your opinion, that's their choice. It shows what the community thinks of you, just averaged out. Unless people don't pay any attention to you, but whatever.

[spaceboy]

I still think we should just have some more structured rules and/or recommendations for use. Clear cases like solving someone's problem in a help thread or creating/discovering something cool are good, but I am more hesitant about "I don't agree with your opinions" negreps and things like that.
Yeah, take all the fun away from the very serious internet, make it the J2O way.

[n00b]

Put me in the group that thinks we shouldn't regulate reputation.
Its a fun little feature, but its not like its a super serious thing. I don't think any less of someone with a low rep than I do someone with a high rep. Also its not like we can see why their reps are high/low. Like Kaz had a rep of 3 at one point and I have no idea why. I don't know why Cooba, Violet, and Stijn are rocking substantially higher rep counts than everyone else who are in this 0-40 range.
I think reasoning should be required for all rep because thats useful personal feedback, but I don't think its very useful for discerning which users are more helpful than others or anything.

[Stijn]

Its a fun little feature, but its not like its a super serious thing. I don't think any less of someone with a low rep than I do someone with a high rep. Also its not like we can see why their reps are high/low. Like Kaz had a rep of 3 at one point and I have no idea why. I don't know why Cooba, Violet, and Stijn are rocking substantially higher rep counts than everyone else who are in this 0-40 range.
As for me, I got like half of it for my post where I announced reputations where enabled.

Anyway, I mostly agree - it's just a number, and nothing depends on it (except your ability to give reputation - you can only do so when yours is 10 or higher). Don't take it too seriously, see it as a little gimmick.

Moderating would be giving it way more weight than it actually carries, in addition to introducing a new task for the forum staff (and I personally don't feel like checking all ratings, really) - and yeah, more rules often equal less fun.

[Jgke]

How does the reputation system make the forums better? <small><small><small><small><small><small>exept growing virtual (-)(-)(-)(-)(-)</small></small></small></small></small>
Well, maybe we can make a difference between bad posters and good posters. But, why do I then get bad reputation for my bad posts and no reputation for my good posts?

[cooba]

I think it works pretty meta - if one takes reputation so seriously that it's unhealthy, people will know how to treat their posts in the future.

[spaceboy]

I think the rules are too restricted for a game like JJ2, I mean it's not really a kids' game anymore, considering the kids who've been playing it already grew up and turned into adults.. I know bigger forums with only 1 moderator (who's actually barely ever around) and no censorships at all and they work way better than this one.. I also don't see the point in having so many sub-forums (like Lark, I believe once pointed out).

[Torkell]

Myself, I see the reputation I receive as a way to tune my posting style to match the forum, especially given that with a purely text-based medium you lose a lot of information. For example, if it's not blatently obvious that a post is a joke from the text then people may take it seriously (with all the drama that entails), as they don't have any body language or tone of voice to use to judge it. It's already had an effect on my posting, and I imagine it's change the posting styles of some other members as well.

At the moment reputation has no effect on forum privileges or abilities (with the exception that you must have positive reputation to use the feature), though I'm vageuly considering adding bonuses for high rep and penalties for low rep. For example, a low rep could disable someone's signature, while a high rep could permit you to change your rank (the bit below your name that says "JCF Member"), grant access to a restricted board, permit attachments... there's lots of options. Alternatively, it may be possible to award privileges for giving out reputation (rather than having a specific reputation) to encourage the use of it.

I personally see no need to regulate the giving out and receiving of reputation. The forum software has limits in place to try and prevent abuse by requiring you to spread the reputation among multiple users and rate-limiting the giving of reputation. Should someone manage to abuse it despite that then we can take action, though the main issue I can think of is using it to send supposedly anonymous abusive messages. I don't necessarily see persistently down/upvoting someone as an issue, as you'd have to spread the reputation among multiple users and it woudn't really achieve anything (though again, action can be taken if it gets ridiculous).

[Obi1mcd]

While I would love to be able to change my title thing, I don't really think it should be as a result of the reputation. It's just going to go all over the place. Low if you're new, or excessively high if you're Unknown Rabbit. Most people will only have something in-between, but the feature's not all that important anyway. It's a bit of fun, but it shouldn't be used for privileges or punishment.

[Violet CLM]

In which case, I am content to withdraw my suggestion that we try regulating reputation. The only other forum I'm used to it from, from what I can tell, restricts reputation to something you give to people who answer your questions in help threads, but on reflection that doesn't need to be the only use and we're free to experiment.

As for "excessively high": hey, I contribute a lot to this community. And I'm able to bump up other people quite a bit as a result, stimulating the economy.

[Obi1mcd]

Sorry, I was only joking. I wasn't saying you don't deserve it or anything.

[cooba]

I really think that we shouldn't deviate from the JCF Member/Administrator/etc titles. They should serve an informative purpose, and there's already one custom title everyone can use.

[Stijn]

I think the rules are too restricted for a game like JJ2, I mean it's not really a kids' game anymore, considering the kids who've been playing it already grew up and turned into adults.. I know bigger forums with only 1 moderator (who's actually barely ever around) and no censorships at all and they work way better than this one.. I also don't see the point in having so many sub-forums (like Lark, I believe once pointed out).
You've said this before but really, if you'd actually look at THE FACTS!, it would be obvious that the Derby-era on the JCF ended a few years ago. So stop pretending it's still like that, it's tiring and simply wrong.

Also, remember the drama when I merged one of the less active forums, Technical Help? I'm not sure the forums would survive it if something even more radical than that happened, like, god forbid, merging General Jazz Talk and Future of Jazz.

[spaceboy]

I haven't noticed any drama. Besides people would adjust quickly to anything. I think you're just avoiding solutions but meh. The forum barely has enough members to keep even 4 different categories on, and it has like what.. 10?

[Stijn]

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=18762&page=2

Not like it matters anyway. People just avoid the inactive forums as it is now, it's not like there'd be a huge difference were they to be merged.

[Nonomu198]

Please refrain from adding privileges and punishments. I don't want to feel bad about adding/subtracting rep.

[spaceboy]

You are just a conservative coward.

[CrimiClown]

You are just a conservative coward.

We don't wanna tick off Tik (see what I did there), Trafton or Derby (yes he is still here).

[Speeza]

The thing is that the forum is absolutely perfect, that's no understatement. Honestly I just don't think we need new themes, a punishment system and all this hooey. Spaceboy makes a good point, there aren't many posts now to really moderate from, I also haven't seen many offensive posts for the past few months. The reputation feature is some harmless fun, but with a Punishment system your only empowering it to become more serious , I think it may discourage people from posting.

Another problem is the fact that we can't see why our posts get negative rep. I often make more than one post a day, sometimes people don't understand what you post or just misinterpret what you may of said. I would rather fix my negative posts and learn from my mistakes.

Another flaw about reputation is not everyone is going to look at a thread , perhaps because it just doesn't interest them. Someone who just cracks a funny joke could get more rep than say someone who helps a person getting there JJ2 working. I think the person who helped the guy trying to get his JJ2 to work deserves more rep than the guy who crack a joke. Sadly however you can't allocate how much rep someone deserves. Some of these people who have high reputation for example, I look at some of there posts and I'm wondering "How on earth did these guys get so much rep, compared to some others with lower rep and have done a lot more helpful things.

I Just don't think reputation should be treated this way. Its bad enough when you see someone with a red blip and you hover over it and it says "this person doesn't post anything worth reading", (I know it doesn't say that , but along those lines) .

I think this reputation thing has came in too late to be honest. Perhaps when there was more posts daily it may of been good to use. Most of the time we all keep happy and get along. A possibility is reputation could actually course us all to become a bit annoyed at one another, as its all anonymous we don't know who is giving us negative rep, or why most importantly. Doesn't this just give admins more of a Job as well, I mean you will have to check a bunch of reasons, and see if they are being given out correctly on top of posts .

Its all my opinion I suppose , but I regret ever supporting reputation, I just thought you would have a thumps up on a post you made, and it showed who liked the post.
I suppose its not too much of a big deal either , but it would be a lot nicer if you could just change your JCF rank anyway.

[Dermo]

Another flaw about reputation is not everyone is going to look at a thread , perhaps because it just doesn't interest them. Someone who just cracks a funny joke could get more rep than say someone who helps a person getting there JJ2 working. I think the person who helped the guy trying to get his JJ2 to work deserves more rep than the guy who crack a joke. Sadly however you can't allocate how much rep someone deserves. Some of these people who have high reputation for example, I look at some of there posts and I'm wondering "How on earth did these guys get so much rep, compared to some others with lower rep and have done a lot more helpful things.

In Unknown Rabbit's case, I must say this statement contradicts itself, unfortunately.

Though I'm not completely opposed to reputation, Speeza does bring up some valid points. However, I feel as if it is as fair of a system as it could get. What more could be done without regulating reputation? He's dead-on when he said this should've been done years ago.

And what would be funny is if you got below 50 rep, you were unable to post unless your post was viewed by a mod/admin first. That would be a real form of quality control, however, and I'm not so sure as to whether I'm opposed to that idea or not.

[Speeza]

Yeah I should point out , I meant not everyone who has high reputation didn't deserve it. Unknown rabbit has always posted useful stuff. Its just others you can look at. I'd rather just not say names is why.

[Dermo]

An expansion on Speeza's Idea: I think there should be a thumbs up/thumbs down at the bottom of each post showing whether the post got positive or negative rep and how many times of each.

[n00b]

Another flaw about reputation is not everyone is going to look at a thread , perhaps because it just doesn't interest them. Someone who just cracks a funny joke could get more rep than say someone who helps a person getting there JJ2 working. I think the person who helped the guy trying to get his JJ2 to work deserves more rep than the guy who crack a joke. Sadly however you can't allocate how much rep someone deserves. Some of these people who have high reputation for example, I look at some of there posts and I'm wondering "How on earth did these guys get so much rep, compared to some others with lower rep and have done a lot more helpful things.

I slightly agree with this. Im at 47 for a couple of jokey, some even meanspirited posts, meanwhile mothersnuckin Blackraptor is at 14. This guy contributes great discussion to the forums. Whats the deal? Seriously.

Like its a good thing that number doesn't mean anything because the implications of that is effed up.


And what would be funny is if you got below 50 rep, you were unable to post unless your post was viewed by a mod/admin first. That would be a real form of quality control, however, and I'm not so sure as to whether I'm opposed to that idea or not.
That would be funny because that would mean no one but like Cooba, Stijn, and Unknown Rabbit could post freely. And I think that illustrates why rep shouldn't have any serious consequence/reward added to it.

[Dermo]

That would be funny because that would mean no one but like Cooba, Stijn, and Unknown Rabbit could post freely. And I think that illustrates why rep shouldn't have any serious consequence/reward added to it.

I meant to say negative 50. Bleh.

[Violet CLM]

n00b: Blackraptor has made three posts to the JCF this year, let alone since reputation was implemented. His posts simply don't show up much, and there doesn't seem to be much retrorepping, so he stays low.

[Stijn]

You are just a conservative coward.
And you're just trolling.

[spaceboy]

Huh? No why would I? If actually standing for something automatically equals trolling in this place, then whatever.. let it be. Like always you try to present those who oppose to your opinion as some negative contributors, but I'm just being honest here, like I always am..

[n00b]

n00b: Blackraptor has made three posts to the JCF this year, let alone since reputation was implemented. His posts simply don't show up much, and there doesn't seem to be much retrorepping, so he stays low.

I somehow fused FireSword and BlackRaptor in my head. I don't know how.
Please for future reference switch the names mentally and replace the 14 with a 34. The point still stands

EDIT- I probably got them mixed up since they're both great posters and posted back to back in the semi thread.

[Raven aka StL]

This 'reputation' feature became real misleading real fast. It's also a rather convenient method to exact hate. Not pointing this out because some control freak kid went goofing around with it here and there, but because it's generally misleading.

[snzspeed]

so when you will be able to delete accounts? I personally dont want to be associated with a forum full of people who dont understand humor. meanwhile im waiting ill abuse this reputation feature a bit.

EDIT: I am also kindly requesting people to not provoke me into fights about this post.

[Speeza]

I really don't know how to say this in the nicest way. But a lot of your rep loss was because you were flaming about losing rep and your deleted post message wasn't too nice either. Don't take reputation too seriously, you would of kept a lot of it if it weren't for your other posts, Its good that you deleted them however.

I personally wouldn't of downrepped you for your post about using Google. Not everyone see's the same things in a post. Its hard to see if the person was joking or just being arrogant when its all mostly text base.

If people are trying to flame bait you let them, just don't reply to it. Your soon see they will lose rep and you simply won't. It would be a shame if you were to stop posting snooze. In my eyes everyone is a vital asset to this forum :P Mostly everyone anyway...

[FQuist]

I just browsed through a lot of recent reputations, and noticed that barely any hateful (or even just negative) reputation is being handed out (except by a few people, including some who should know better). I think the perceived effect of there being lots of hate and trouble is <i>partly</i> caused by a few people overreacting to the negative reputation they receive.

(there ARE some people who use the reputation feature for any person they disagree with, even if the person has written an eloquent post, though. that's unfortunate)

[snzspeed]

Haha, thanks to the latest one. Never posting/visiting this forum again. You dont deserve people like me.

[Stijn]

Good riddance.

[cooba]

Haha, thanks to the latest one. Never posting/visiting this forum again. You dont deserve people like me.<!---->

[Obi1mcd]

Haha, thanks to the latest one. Never posting/visiting this forum again. You dont deserve people like me.

If that's your additude about it, then frankly, we don't need you. Pity though, I liked your levels.

[Seren]

"Hmm... what's that? A noob wants some help in that thread? Well, first I'll negrep him for being such an idiot, and now I'll write an answer. Haha, I'll get some easy reputation."

"Hey, I'm being negrepped? Hmm, I think it's that guy, he doesn't like me. Okay, I'll negrep him as well, I just need to search for some stupid post of him."

"Wtf, that guy here has a lot of rep and I don't even remember his nickname. He surely doesn't deserve it."

"Looks like the rep of my friend is too low. He surely has some decent posts for which I can give him some points."

"He thinks he's funny? Oh well, I'm not laughing - negrep."

"I'll leave my nickname in the positive rep reason. He'll feel that he should rep me back as well."

They're just some random thoughts I think some people could have. I myself try not to really care about this whole new system. When it started, I was even quite happy that something really new happens just a while after I joined this great community. I saw that a lot of good quality posts are now appearing and I was pressing that nice button of "I approve" next to the most of them. I noticed a lot of posts are talking about this new feature now, though. Complaining about receiving some bad reputation and "I'll surely get negrepped for this post but...". I felt that a lot of freedom is lost and people are scared of posting not to lose the precious points. I've read posts of some seemingly angry people. The overall quality of posts was worse and worse with every day. As well as the atmosphere which was so nice before, when I was visiting no reputation JCF. And now, the first such serious explosion. Although I think and I hope that Snooze won't leave the whole community ("never posting/visiting this forum again"), I still find it a great loss for JCF. I can easily imagine a lot more people leaving in this or a more quiet way in the future.

Obviously, in this way I vote for disabling this feature.

[n00b]

I like how you have to paint the community as heartless a holes or crazed addicts in your attempt to go "No sir, I dont like it". Seems like you have more of a problem with all of us than you do the actual rep feature.
Stop being so goddamn melodramatic in describing the impact of an e-peen feature on a bunny-game forum. Speaking as someone who has recently come back, the JCF doesnt seem like some horrid fukken crapsack wasteland obsessed with rep, it just seems like the JCF when I checked it earlier this year.
And then theres this nonsense:

"Looks like the rep of my friend is too low. He surely has some decent posts for which I can give him some points."

How is this a fukken problem? What the hell is this? Please excuse me for leaving it at that, but it almost feels like a waste of time to explain how this is legit and listing it as a problem just shows you're trying way too hard in your attempt to villainize the feature. For someone who claims he's trying not to care about the feature, you seem to be failing hard.

[Jgke]

Exept that Sir Ementaler is right. Voting for closing the reputation feature.

[Toni]

I vote for disabling it, too.

[WhiteBlaster]

Me too. Too risky for the atmosphere of this forum.

[cooba]

I tend to agree with n00b and Frank. Please don't exaggerate over a single incident, you get banned only when you act like a moron (see above).

[Newspaz]

The only point of this system I can see is to make unopinionated people aware of the fact that according to some, people with low reputation should not be taken seriously. I myself would not use a system like this one because I think even trolls can make a valid point once in a while. Just look at me, I'm not below 0 (yet).

What bothers me is the air of mystery that surrounds it. You don't get to see who gave you what reputation. Even though I do understand that the admins and moderators would get yet another job just monitoring these if they were public. I suspect that most of the reputations are given out by a select crowd and that most people do not bother to press the button. This makes the reputation system a system for the "elite".

In the end I don't really care for the entire system, I think I'm perfectly able to decide myself who I think highly of and of who I do not. Just reputate me down all you want. See if I care.

[n00b]

Exept that Sir Ementaler is right. Voting for closing the reputation feature.
About what? That some people are drama queens?
Snooze was a bit of a drama queen before the rep feature, I don't see how him being one after it was added proves anything.

Someone gave me a negrep for my previous post being "a bit harsh", but what do you guys want me to do? Anyone who thinks its actively ruining this forum needs to wake the hell up. The only drama coming from this feature (which let me reiterate is an e-peen meter on a furry animal game forum which only affects how much you can distribute more e-peen points) is the drama ya'll are making for yourselves. And if you're drama-prone removing the feature isn't going to magically make you less drama-prone.

A vote to get rid of the feature for reasons such as "its ruining the atmosphere" is a vote for "We're all way too immature to handle this" and to be quite honest I'd like to think we're better than that.

[Jgke]

A vote to get rid of the feature for reasons such as "its ruining the atmosphere" is a vote for "We're all way too immature to handle this" and to be quite honest I'd like to think we're better than that.

Wasn't this a game where bunnies bounce on bizzarre places? And if I remember correctly, this game is suitable for everyone. So you shouldn't be saying that we should be mature.

[Seren]

About what? That some people are drama queens?
Snooze was a bit of a drama queen before the rep feature, I don't see how him being one after it was added proves anything.
It proves that a person can leave JCF or perhaps even the community just because of reputation. Snooze was the first such case (or at least the most noticable), probably because he's less immune to this kind of stress, but it means there can be more, and I don't want to wait and check out who will be next.

Someone gave me a negrep for my previous post being "a bit harsh", but what do you guys want me to do?
Just let me ask, what's that? This sentence doesn't seem to be an arguement nor an introduction to the point of the next ones. It's complaining for getting a negrep. Why? Why do you even care? You aren't drama-prone, are you?

Anyone who thinks its actively ruining this forum needs to wake the hell up. The only drama coming from this feature (which let me reiterate is an e-peen meter on a furry animal game forum which only affects how much you can distribute more e-peen points) is the drama ya'll are making for yourselves. And if you're drama-prone removing the feature isn't going to magically make you less drama-prone.
It seems that the drama-prone people you see here agree with me that they were less drama-prone before adding this feature. People with different opinions are an admin with the highest rep in the forums and a person with rep 80 which just started to complain for being "a bit harsh" negrepped. Oh well, and Newspaz which was smart enough not to take care about the whole thing.

A vote to get rid of the feature for reasons such as "its ruining the atmosphere" is a vote for "We're all way too immature to handle this" and to be quite honest I'd like to think we're better than that.
I'm mature enough to see we won't handle this. Thank you for your precious opinion.

[n00b]

Wasn't this a game where bunnies bounce on bizzarre places? And if I remember correctly, this game is suitable for everyone. So you shouldn't be saying that we should be mature.

http://i12.tinypic.com/4kf2nhk.gif
... For real dawg?


@Sir Ementaler- Im not sure if you see the join dates here, but speaking as a member from 2004 I can say with firm confidence that the forum was much much worse in terms of flamewars, arguments, and overall immaturity in the past.
Now let me be clear, since your skull is apparently thick. Im not doing this to act like im superior because Ive been here longer. Im doing this point out that by being here longer, I've had the experience of seeing this forum in a worse state. People here called the rational discourse in WhiteBlaster's password program thread "arguing". You want to see arguing? Go through my post history, I've done some stupid (-)(-)(-)(-). What happens on this forum lately doesn't even compare.

I guess I have to explain a portion of my previous post as well. I was directly responding to the rep response, I'm not complaining because I think my oh so precious e-peen number is going down. Its happened before because I made some jokes that fell flat, and I didn't complain then. If you bothered to read my previous posts on this matter, you'd find that I think that right now the rep number is utterly useless, and the real use of the feature is the feedback delivered from it. I'll liberally disperse rep amongst posters I think are great who have low rep but thats in an effort to try and make the feature a little less goofy than it currently is. The current state its in should not be warranting these doom and gloom responses.

Shifting gears, I don't want the system to go away outright, and I don't want it removed solely because people have decided we're basically all five year olds. To be clear, I'm cool with Newspaz's reasoning for removing it and partially agree with it myself. Hell, I'd be cool with removing the rep numbers from posts. As I said before its ridiculous my rep number is so high compared to posters much better than I. Also as I've said before its just an e-peen bar. I do however find the feedback system to be useful, and I'd rather it not be removed.

[Torkell]

Ok, I'll own up. I did the initial negrep that I think caused all this fuss, as in my (personal-and-not-as-an-admin) opinion that was not a helpful post. Possibly I was too snarky in the comment, in which case I'll try and tone down the snark. I honestly didn't expect this to result.

While I have joked about retaliation against those who negrep me, I've not actually done so as it defeats the point of reputation (unfortuantly it's hard to tell on the internet if people are joking or not). As I've said before, I find it useful as a "how's my driving" form of feedback. So feel free to negrep me into oblivion if you think my posts are really that bad. It'll add to my notoriety :)

[n00b]

I'd like to point out again the only reason why I brought it up was to point out that I thought being harsh would work as a wakeup call to being overly dramatic about the situation, a little tough love though I guess I didnt go about it the right way. I didnt bring it up because someone negged me.

[Stijn]

Really, if everyone has such a big problem with a small number under their name that might be lower than you want but otherwise does not influence anything at all you're all more superficial than I thought but it might be a better idea to disable it.

I kind of hoped you all (you know who I mean) would be mature enough not to actually pay too much attention to this whole thing, and see it for what it is, namely a small little gimmick that might encourage some users to spend some more thought about their post. Instead some are putting on a lot of drama and whining about this thing and if this is all it leads to I'd honestly rather disable it so this retarded discussion could end.

[Nonomu198]

I find this whole thing hilarious. Don't disable repping, the forum needs this. Or at least, I need this.

[Obi1mcd]

The reputation feature doesn't have to be taken seriously. The number doesn't mean all that much. I think that snooze, and a few others, are overreacting. Don't disable the feature yet. I think it would work alright.

[Puffie40]

I should point out that other forums have used variants of the reputation system used here, and they have not fallen into a pile of chaotic backstabbing and union Seniority-style hierarchies. People who abuse this feature, like snzspeed has, have (and will) be dealt with.

I think Sir Ementaler is seeing too much of the feature in a negative light. No one is going to use this feature for every single post he/she sees - no one has that kind of time. If you are that worried about your "Reputation", then you are worried too much about a statistic that does not apply to you in real life or you have too much time on your hands.

[Dermo]

I like how you have to paint the community as heartless a holes or crazed addicts in your attempt to go... blah blah blah

And then theres this nonsense:

"Looks like the rep of my friend is too low. He surely has some decent posts for which I can give him some points."

How is this a fukken problem? What the hell is this? Please excuse me for leaving it at that, but it almost feels like a waste of time to explain how this is legit and listing it as a problem just shows you're trying way too hard in your attempt to villainize the feature. For someone who claims he's trying not to care about the feature, you seem to be failing hard.

Wasn't this a game where bunnies bounce on bizzarre places? And if I remember correctly, this game is suitable for everyone. So you shouldn't be saying that we should be mature.

I love the intelligence shown in your post, n00b. Cursing and flaming. Wow and to think I actually respected you as an "asset" to this forum. I'm sorry I've been mislead all of this time...

I tend to agree with n00b and Frank. Please don't exaggerate over a single incident, you get banned only when you act like a moron (see above).

I'm not trying to take a side but wow, the attacks just continue. And quite frankly, I'm a bit nervous about neg-repping cooba, seeing as he's an admin. However, the only "negative atmosphere" I have seen was snooze's little hissy fit. I really can't take a side on this. However I do feel that negativity and fear now coming from people when they post that Sir Ementaler was referring to. The way I see it now, we should give this a little bit longer.

Honestly, I don't know what Snooze was complaining about but it really is a shame to see him go. I highly doubt it was sparked by a mere lack of reputation. But if that's the direction that this forum is headed, then unfortunately, I feel as if it might be best that it is shut down. This is just a trial run, you people. Remember that. Not a permanent change. I feel as if it should be voted on by the community, not just the administrators and I also feel that everybody's reputation should be reset to 10 again if it passes due to fairness and to stop the current whining.

http://i12.tinypic.com/4kf2nhk.gif
... For real dawg?


@Sir Ementaler- Im not sure if you see the join dates here, but speaking as a member from 2004 I can say with firm confidence that the forum was much much worse in terms of flamewars, arguments, and overall immaturity in the past.

So that makes it right? I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post...

I kind of hoped you all (you know who I mean) would be mature enough not to actually pay too much attention to this whole thing, and see it for what it is, namely a small little gimmick that might encourage some users to spend some more thought about their post. Instead some are putting on a lot of drama and whining about this thing and if this is all it leads to I'd honestly rather disable it so this retarded discussion could end.

Let's have a community vote on this matter. Though judging from the responsibility shown so far, I don't know if decisions are the best thing for this forum atm. Pathetic, I've never seen it like this.

I find this whole thing hilarious. Don't disable repping, the forum needs this. Or at least, I need this.

AMEN. It is hilarious! And I would love to watch it rage on but I feel as if the maturity levels are low enough as it is.

All-in-all I don't even know what to say to this community anymore...

Don't rep me. Or maybe I should tell you to rep me so you won't.

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/son_i_am_disappoint_trollcat.jpg" />

[FQuist]

http://imgur.com/sMg4e.png

I bet everyone can argue a totally different point with this!!

[Speeza]

Where did you get those statistics from ?

[FQuist]

I went through the thread, put everyone in a for/against/neutral list, got their reps and averaged them. It's not meant to seriously prove any point, really.

[Seren]

I bet everyone can argue a totally different point with this!!
What? I thought it was obvious from the very beginning. It doesn't make any side anymore right. You can say I'm biased because my rep is low but I can as well say you're biased because your rep is high.

[FQuist]

That's exactly why I said everyone can argue a different point with this :P

EDIT: I think that there is good chance (some) people with a high reputation will think "see, people appreciate my posts, and they're right, so the system works". On the other hand, people with low reputation will think "people don't appreciate my posts, and they're wrong, so the system doesn't work".

That said, I think the system works. The people whose posts I typically enjoy seem to have a higher reputation than others.

EDIT2: People who take reputation more personally are more likely to be against it, but are also more likely to get into more personal arguments or complain about negative reputation. Both these actions generally cause more negative reputation. Selffulfilling-ish prophecy!

[Seren]

Sorry then, I thought this sentence is meant to mean something different.

[Speeza]

That's exactly why I said everyone can argue a different point with this :P

EDIT: I think that there is good chance (some) people with a high reputation will think "see, people appreciate my posts, and they're right, so the system works". On the other hand, people with low reputation will think "people don't appreciate my posts, and they're wrong, so the system doesn't work".

That said, I think the system works. The people whose posts I typically enjoy seem to have a higher reputation than others.

EDIT2: People who take reputation more personally are more likely to be against it, but are also more likely to get into more personal arguments or complain about negative reputation. Both these actions generally cause more negative reputation. Selffulfilling-ish prophecy!

Kinda reminds me of an old tv show I used to watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvBF0Lt6iTo) :rolleyes: Replace ratings with reputation.

@Newspaz, come on lighten up a bit. If only people posted this much in other threads. I haven't seen so many posts regularly in a while.

[spaceboy]

I want to be the king of neg rep.

[spaceboy]

This is just a fun little board. People take it too seriously (that's including various admins, regular users, banned users, etc).. often when I look at my posts I think to myself "whoa I don't even remember TYPING this!" and get cracked up.. and many times I probably come off as an (-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-), which I'm far from being irl. Just havin' some rough days sometimes, and takin' it off here is kinda easy, y'know?.. I don't have any negative thoughts towards anyone in the board, hope I've never truly offeneded anyone.. just some of the best laughs in my life I've had in this place, and will keep having..

Also, Snooze is one of the best posters here. I like his sense of humor.. but good people are misunderstood.

[Seren]

EDIT: I think that there is good chance (some) people with a high reputation will think "see, people appreciate my posts, and they're right, so the system works". On the other hand, people with low reputation will think "people don't appreciate my posts, and they're wrong, so the system doesn't work".

That said, I think the system works. The people whose posts I typically enjoy seem to have a higher reputation than others.
I actually understand only the logic of the last sentence and not really agree with it. Although, let's say the system works. My true goal isn't prooving it doesn't. I'm only noticing those "people don't appreciate my posts" guys. Everyday you can hear that the community and JJ2 are dying but you're just giving people a next reason to leave or stop the activity. You're discussing every feature you want to put to the game itself to ensure it won't kill it, and a while later you're easily adding a whole new kind of ranking to the forums.

EDIT2: People who take reputation more personally are more likely to be against it, but are also more likely to get into more personal arguments or complain about negative reputation. Both these actions generally cause more negative reputation. Selffulfilling-ish prophecy!
cooba already explained it to me few times. I still don't see any part of it which would make it an argument to keep the system.

[spaceboy]

If you stand for something, you might have people disagreeing with you. Therefore I can't see why Emp's so pissed about the rep feature.. think about it, people with a high reputation really tend to be more dull and empty. He should see it as an advantage, that many people here actually feel his posts.

[Toni]

But people... You're all inactive/semi-active in JJ2 (actually I mean admins are). There are too much new players who don't know for this forum. Try to get them here, so you will see what will happen. Old player(s) (I won't tell on who I mean, because he will delete that post with reason "Personal attack") hates "new" players. He hates me. I don't know why, but it doesn't matter. There are a lot of people who will negrep posts by "new" users, here. That admin who really hates "new" players will negrep this. I just know that, but I don't care. Do whatever you want. I, personally, am for disabling this feature. I have a big proof for people who've got negrepped for their posts by someone who wants a help. That happened to bogdan or something like that. That happened a lot of other people who just wanted help from the others. Here is a great example for this.

New player: Hey all, can anyone help me about... (That happened to cooldude in thread where he wanted a help from us, guys, and you negrepped his comment. He just wanted to make a program, but he didn't know that Visual C++ is a language what you need to know if you wanna make a program... don't go out of topic now :p )

After that, Some users negrepped his post. And why? Just because they hate him. That's why I don't like this feature.

Also, you (not all, but some of you) are acting like 'I don't care about this feature. It doesn't show anything special big.' and you added it to this forum. I really don't understand you :p . If someone see your reputation is 150 he will automatically like every your post. And, if someone see your reputation is small (as mine is, but I really don't care about my reputation, I care about new users who will join to this community and got negrepped, and leave this beautiful forum with no big reason), people will automatically dislike your posts, and dislike you, too.

Let's see about old players, who got negrepped sometimes and left this forum (I hope not community), now. The best example is snooze. I really am not sure did he leave, but in case he did (and if he didn't he wanted to), reputation made him leave. I think you should add "Thanks" button next to "quote", or "edit" buttons instead of reputation, so people will see how much times people pressed "thanks" button on your posts. That is some type of reputation, too, but you can't get negrepped. I don't know is it vBulletin, but I saw it on some forums. If you want see it tell me and I will show you that forum.

Now if I tell you my English isn't the best (I think I don't need to tell you, you see it) you will negrep this comment. Thanks a lot ;).

[Violet CLM]

Now, to some extent, this <em>makes sense</em> -- just definitionally, you would expect people who have been around longer to have a higher (potential for) reputation. Another proposal, since people weren't fond of the idea of restricting cases for which reputation could validly be applied: <strong>positive only, no negative.</strong>

As for cooldude, whom I'm pretty sure I did not myself negrep: Asking questions is fine. <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=454207&postcount=136">We all do it.</a> But there are better and worse ways to ask questions, a concept which goes back <a href="http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html">a long way</a>, and cooldude did not go out of his way to make his questions easy to answer, and did not really respond to requests for further clarification, which nobody ever likes.

[Nonomu198]

I am pro repping yet my rep is only 27?! Sir Ementaler's rep is 48!?!?!

WAH WAH THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.

I demand higher rep before I continue supporting the rep feature.


On another note, I noticed that when I rep it only changes 2 points, and when I'm repped it's like 10 points. I guess this is the veteran effect acting? Or the post count? Or the rep amount? Doesn't matter, I think this is kind of lame because it keeps me out of the game ;(

I suggest tweaking it.

[Stijn]

On another note, I noticed that when I rep it only changes 2 points, and when I'm repped it's like 10 points. I guess this is the veteran effect acting? Or the post count? Or the rep amount? Doesn't matter, I think this is kind of lame because it keeps me out of the game ;(

All of those influence the amount of reputation you can give/take.

[Toni]

yeah, you mentioned only my mistakes in my post up-there, UR. What about the rest, where I was probably alright? You replied only on that example for cooldude, what I didn't literally mean. That was just an example for situation when someone needs a help from us, (I agree he didn't ask it in right way as he could do it) but when someone asks a good question, as I did in my thread on tech. help. I got negrepped there. I don't know why, and I don't want to know why. I guess that was a nice question UR. With all, images, errors etc. But whatever, that's other's ppl opinion. We can't do anything against it. After all, I really think that the best solution is removing rep. system and adding the "Thanks" button for every post, so you can't get negrepped. Only get thanks from the other users here. :)

[Speeza]

Eh, after a long think about it, The rep system has helped a bit, Some posters have really changed there attitude now, and all because some pixal numbers :D So the reputation feature has helped. I do like toni's Idea as well, it was I think what dermo was talking about in the first place, just a thanks button. It would also let you see what post specifically got a thanks, that way there would be less drama from some people, and in the long term still have the same advantages as the rep system.

Maybe we could have a poll to this thread, and see what everyone thinks. I prefer the thanks button, or if people luv the reputation feature so much have both :D.

[Violet CLM]

Toni: I didn't respond to most of your post because I'm not really on either side of the fence right now in the discussion; I reply to what I think warrants response or correction. If you want more feedback, I'll say that Snooze has left many times before and will doubtless continue to do so.

[Stijn]

I don't really have an opinion about this "thanks button" but I'll say that we have the reputation feature as it is right now because that is the way the forum software implements it; there is no builtin support for a "thanks button" or another form of expressing appreciation for a post so it is unlikely that it will be enabled.

[Nonomu198]

All of those influence the amount of reputation you can give/take.

Yes, Stijn, that's why I listed them.

[Stijn]

Yes, Stijn, that's why I listed them.
With question marks behind them. But pardon me for thinking it was a question.

Also, you (not all, but some of you) are acting like 'I don't care about this feature. It doesn't show anything special big.' and you added it to this forum. I really don't understand you . If someone see your reputation is 150 he will automatically like every your post. And, if someone see your reputation is small (as mine is, but I really don't care about my reputation, I care about new users who will join to this community and got negrepped, and leave this beautiful forum with no big reason), people will automatically dislike your posts, and dislike you, too.
Well, I do hope people are intelligent enough to judge a post by ...the post, and not by a number next to it.

[Nimrod]

I know I'm so late to this thread, but as an active Vbulletin Admin with tons of experience with the reputation system, may I recommend one thing to you:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=165673

A simple, easy to customize mod. It adds a nice Thanks button to the bottom of posts, and you can set it to give +rep for every thank you received.

Also, if you wanna install it quickly, Stijn you have my MSN and I can tell you the phrases to edit to customize it so you could have it set up in less than 5 minutes.

I attached a photo of how we use it on Digiex.

Go on, install a mod on your otherwise plan vBulletin :)

[Speeza]

I know I'm so late to this thread, but as an active Vbulletin Admin with tons of experience with the reputation system, may I recommend one thing to you:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=165673

A simple, easy to customize mod. It adds a nice Thanks button to the bottom of posts, and you can set it to give +rep for every thank you received.

Also, if you wanna install it quickly, Stijn you have my MSN and I can tell you the phrases to edit to customize it so you could have it set up in less than 5 minutes.

I attached a photo of how we use it on Digiex.

Go on, install a mod on your otherwise plan vBulletin :)

+rep, Awesome job nimrod thanks !

[Dermo]

perhaps we should test this for a little while and have a vote to see who likes which system best ;D

[Nonomu198]

Nimrod, this isn't some helping and contributing forum. At best, we get one joke thread and one serious thread simultaneously at one time. With a thank you system, nobody will hardly get any rep ever, and it will be boring.

With question marks behind them. But pardon me for thinking it was a question.

The question marks were meant to express my uncertainty about which factor has the most effect on making my reps null.

[Newspaz]

Well, I do hope people are intelligent enough to judge a post by ...the post, and not by a number next to it.
I think you might have pinpointed the problem there.

[Toni]

Nimrod, that was what I meant :p thanks for showing it to everyone ;)

[Violet CLM]

Nimrod, this isn't some helping and contributing forum. At best, we get one joke thread and one serious thread simultaneously at one time. With a thank you system, nobody will hardly get any rep ever, and it will be boring.
You may be thinking of Miscellaneous Stuff, but I assure you that there are other forums.

[Nonomu198]

You may be thinking of Miscellaneous Stuff, but I assure you that there are other forums.

I read all new posts. If you're talking about question threads, they are not common, and most are answered solely by you. A thank you system will be boring.

[cooba]

A thank you system will be boring.Agree. Reputation is good for the JCF with all its occassional discussion and banter.

A "thank you" system sounds like an endless circlejerk (no wonder it's on Digiex).

[minmay]

I always considered this forum pretty good at generating huge piles of "discussion" just by making any slight change, but I think this is the worst case yet.

[Obi1mcd]

Minmay's right, this is getting ridiculous. It's just a little number, for pete's sake. If people are going to take it seriously, that's their problem. The post is more important. People like snooze are just overreacting.

[Nimrod]

A "thank you" system sounds like an endless circlejerk (no wonder it's on Digiex).

Have you got anything nice to say ever? I've browsed JCF over the past day and found two entries where you've ever slamed me or Digiex.

Get over your issues seriously.

And for your reference, Digiex Forums gets over 350,000 Unique Views and over $600 Dollars in Adsense Revenue a month, what have you achieved?

[Stijn]

And for your reference, Digiex Forums gets over 350,000 Unique Views and over $600 Dollars in Adsense Revenue a month, what have you achieved?
Oh come on, what does that have to do with anything? Not that cooba's reply was all that constructive; no need to get snappy when someone is offering help.

Thanks for the heads-up, Nimrod, I'll certainly look into it. I'm still not convinced the reputation system really needs replacement (minmay has a good point) but it's always good to have an alternative.

[Nimrod]

Sorry for losing it, but I was only making a suggestion to aid the JCF, whenever you agreed with the idea or not, as it does work in some circumstance.

We had a big problem with wasted posts saying "Thanks" which on some of our guides or download threads was becoming a big mess on the forum, so it solved that and also made our reputation system more widely used.

In retrospect it may not be required for JCF's requirements or vision, but that still doesnt justify one of your staff just throwing in a quick snarky remark when all I did was spend my time offering a suggestion.

[cooba]

And quite frankly, I'm a bit nervous about neg-repping cooba, seeing as he's an adminOld player(s) (I won't tell on who I mean, because he will delete that post with reason "Personal attack")one of your staffI think there's a bit of a <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showgroups.php">misunderstanding</a> here...

[Nimrod]

I think there's a bit of a <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showgroups.php">misunderstanding</a> here...

Your a J2O staff member, and as such was what I was referencing, stop trying to pick holes.

[Toni]

why you quoted my post cooba? I didn't think on you... I am not as such as idiot as you think I am. I see your status on this forum and it is as mine is JCF Member . Please answer me, I prefer to know why you quoted my post.

[FQuist]

Toni, you're making quite serious allegations of power abuse yet you will not mention names. Unless you do, it's hard to 1. take your arguments against reputation seriously 2. not see it as slander. 3. not resort to guessing which admin/person you might mean

For the record, none of the admins delete posts that are critical of them (without resorting to breaking rules like personal attacks) and if they do, I'd like to hear about it so I can investigate.

[Puffie40]

It's kinda entertaining seeing how a topic about a forum feature tryout turned from curiosity, to negitivity from a bunch of drama queens, then degraded to the administrators having a public argument.

there is more action here than a G8 summit. all that's needed is the clouds of tear gas.

EDIT: This comment was referring to an admin of another forum arguing with somone everybody seems to think is an admin. I do not have anything against the moderators or the administration of this forum, and I am sorry this comment caused a misunderstanding.

[Nonomu198]

It's the reputation. Even presented as digits and squares, determined by such a nonsensical system as a rep button, it gets people crazy.

In fact, I bet Nimrod is just sour about his low rep.

[FQuist]

It's kinda entertaining seeing how a topic about a forum feature tryout turned from curiosity, to negitivity from a bunch of drama queens, then degraded to the administrators having a public argument.

there is more action here than a G8 summit. all that's needed is the clouds of tear gas.

What administrators? No administrators are having any argument. In fact, the active ones tend to support the same view in this. No idea what you're talking about.

Also, I don't feel like the admins are having any heated discussion with any members, either.

EDIT: Puffie said he meant digiEX/J2O admins. makes sense. But let's please leave that discussion.

[Violet CLM]

This may get deleted, but just pointing out: administrators have opinions too. And they can argue them in the capacity of users without necessarily stating official site/forum policy.

[Nimrod]

Agree. Reputation is good for the JCF with all its occassional discussion and banter.

A "thank you" system sounds like an endless circlejerk (no wonder it's on Digiex).

So this is what it all started with, out of the blue for no apprant reason an attack on Digiex. What provoked it? Linking to a Modification which has worked well on our site and I was only suggesting it MIGHT also work for JCF.

Lets look at the term CircleJerk, and what caused me to even respond.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=circlejerk

Oh come on, what does that have to do with anything? Not that cooba's reply was all that constructive; no need to get snappy when someone is offering help.

Thanks for the heads-up, Nimrod, I'll certainly look into it. I'm still not convinced the reputation system really needs replacement (minmay has a good point) but it's always good to have an alternative.

Cooba wasnt offering help, he was throwing a cheap shot at Digiex which he loves to do, or even directly to myself, one could even sum it up as trying to start a flame war. But don't worry, as hes part of your team its all fine!

It's the reputation. Even presented as digits and squares, determined by such a nonsensical system as a rep button, it gets people crazy.

In fact, I bet Nimrod is just sour about his low rep.

Honestly, couldnt care less, do you think if I cared about rep at JCF I would visit a bit more often than once every few months usually just to read up on whats been going on. Sadly however everytime I've come to the JCF, Iv either found Cooba has been flaming me while I've been gone, or as soon as I post anything he will be there to do so. Its like a cycle and its about to repeat itself, I pop my head in, Cooba flames, I can't be arsed and don't bother coming back for a while.


Now, the big problem with this, is most of the conversation has been prompted deleted by Stijn, though some of Coobas post remain, including the thing that started it off. I never came here to make an arguement, all I did was browse JCF, saw this thread and thought, hey I got an idea which could help, and suggested it. It doesn't bother me if its selected or not, I just thought hey a chance to maybe help and I did. A simple response like the second half of Stijn's was all that was needed.

Maybe I shouldn't have jumped to the defence when Cooba launched his attack, but its got to the point where I'm fed up with constantly being slammed by him whenever I make an appearance, even though I go out of my way to avoid it. Over the past few years whenever I pop my head into the JJ2 Scene, its happened, from homophobic abuse to just slamming me over the past. If you lot knew what it was all over, your think how stupid (but just so you know, it all started when I didnt give Cooba the Bash server password as we had more than enough admins).

I'll think I'll try and make this my last post for a while, as its clear the admins of the forums will hide and protect Cooba's posts (some of or should I say most of his deleted posts were abusive), all I did was post a suggestion and look what its turned into, the point of the thread is gone and more people like to but in and give an opinion on our argument when they don't know what its all about. As always if people have problems with connectivity to the list server please drop me a message, though if you want a quick response I'd suggest either IM me or PM me on Digiex.

PS: If people are still annoyed about my behaviour like 5 years ago with the List Server and so fourth, thats 5 years ago. I was young, it was the past.

[I suspect this will be deleted or heavily edited]

[Jgke]

How about deleting every post in the range 177 (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=461051&postcount=177)-188 (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=461170&postcount=188), and post 174 (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=461051&postcount=174)? This would delete this small flamewar between Cooba and Nimrod.Oh god, you are so going to negrep me

[Stijn]

Oh please. I really wish people would stop playing the "but the admins of this forum are worse than Stalin and censor and edit and delete everything" card. I agree, cooba should not have brought up DigiEx in the first place, but by the point I saw it there were some posts replying to that already and basically the damage was done - I didn't see much point in deleting that (since, contrary to my apparent image, I actually try to be conservative with what I edit or delete). The posts I deleted were 100% off-topic and I saw them shortly after they were posted, so I deleted them and posted a small notice to keep this thread on topic. Which obviously didn't quite reach people, judging by the recent posts.

So I'll repeat it again, for everyone: vague allegations about administrators of either J2O or the JCF are not constructive, and neither are personal flamewars that don't have anything to do with the topic at hand. If you feel an overwhelming need to make under-the-belt remarks about other people please use other channels than this forum for that. If you have something constructive to say about the reputation feature or a "thanks button", feel free to keep posting here. If not, well, don't.

Cooba wasnt offering help, he was throwing a cheap shot at Digiex which he loves to do, or even directly to myself, one could even sum it up as trying to start a flame war. But don't worry, as hes part of your team its all fine!
I was pointing out that cooba's remark was grossly out of place, because all you were doing was being helpful. I kind of hoped the right people would take the hint, but apparently not. Sorry for being unclear.

[FQuist]

PLEASE get on-topic, or you WILL get deleted. no more.

[CrimiClown]

Am I the only one actually enjoying this new feature? Sure it's more shallow than an empty glass of whisky, but isn't it just great recieving rep for posts you'd forgotten about?

[Speeza]

I just like getting some positive comments from it, gives me a smile, I hate it however when I get blank comments that's worse than neg rep comments for me. It seems the dust is settling now and people have accepted reputation. As its no certain doom people, I'm happy with reputation as long as there's no punishment system, as I'm sure that would kick everything off again :D

Will there actually be a thanks button then, I kinda take it there won't since last time Stijn just put the idea onto JCF when dermo mentioned rep. Unless of course Stijn just wants to avoid another season of JCF drama island, in that case I don't blame him.

@mimmay, I'm talking about before cooba and nimrods flamewar. People were kicking up a fuss.

[minmay]

Pretty sure none of this happened because of the reputation system.

[Crazy]

Woa lots of removed posts :S

well i think the thanks button would more than beneficial , I belive that the rep feature has its plus sides but alot of downsides i.e you can personaly attack somebody and also just down them for jokes or anything you dont approve of.

Still i would be more than willing to put this "Thanks" to the test atleast it has if none downsides to it *well none that spring to mind* i know im not a well like person on this forum but i belive that the a little thanks is better than down rep or + rep.

Finaly i conclude that the "Thanks" feature is best all round and there is Nimrod that has stated that if Stign would take his time to add Nimrod would take his own time to help "Stijn you have my MSN and I can tell you the phrases to edit to customize it so you could have it set up in less than 5 minutes"

Also last but not least i think *u may think i think alot :P* that there should also be fourm achivements and the forum users should think of them and the moderators should pick them. but have a few funny achivements in just for the lols :)


anyway thats enough of me for today
*my head hurts* :)

_Rippor,Crazy_

[minmay]

That would have the disadvantage of making older members more "reputable," regardless of whether they actually are.

Similarly, someone could go from being very helpful to relentlessly trolling (I've seen it happen many times), and would keep their high "reputation" no matter how much everyone hates them.

[Raven aka StL]

Just trying to avoid the pathetic situation where some forum member with minor/no idea about things sees that someone has a reputation of 2 or so and someone else 30+ and thinks that the latter is automatically more respectable/reputable.
Because if that starts happening, then this will become a forum of delusion.

[Grytolle]

hahaha a forum of delusion

[Speeza]

Just trying to avoid the pathetic situation where some forum member with minor/no idea about things sees that someone has a reputation of 2 or so and someone else 30+ and thinks that the latter is automatically more respectable/reputable.
Because if that starts happening, then this will become a forum of delusion.

Well there will be that case I'm afraid. It all depends on why you lost that rep as well. People may not respect you for some of those posts. I don't care what you have said in the past, since you got to live in the moment, if you have made a decent post then no one is gonna neg rep you, and your become more "respectable" from it.

[Stijn]

So has anyone actually experienced any negative side-effects of the reputation feature apart from this thread?

[minmay]

man i have no idea what's even going on in this thread anymore

In response to Stijn's question, most of the potential problems are things that don't appear right away - especially sensitive members leaving the forum because of low reputation, people bragging about high reputation, people repeatedly going offtopic to talk about someone's reputation (similar to how some people go offtopic to discuss post counts), and perhaps most importantly, especially sensitive members being hesitant to post anything potentially controversial out of fear for their precious reputation points.

Of course, some might consider those to be good things.

[CrimiClown]

Also, repping is another uncontrolled way of flaming eachother, but PMs can be used as well, so yeah... This doesn't contribute at all, I guess, but I'm gonna post this anyway because I don't fear for rep. :D

[Raven aka StL]

Well there will be that case I'm afraid. It all depends on why you lost that rep as well. People may not respect you for some of those posts. I don't care what you have said in the past, since you got to live in the moment, if you have made a decent post then no one is gonna neg rep you, and your become more "respectable" from it.

There are people who negrep for no apparent reason and people who gain 'reputation' for no apparent reason.

[Grytolle]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the poster above me, what with his low reputation and all...

[Seren]

I believe I told the most of my arguments already. I'd personally like to hear why actually should we keep the feature. I think I only heard two arguments of your side:
1. It should make people think twice before posting - sure, nice one, although it doesn't work like that. People with currently high rep don't need to think before posting, what's a chance they'd lose the whole huge amount of points they have? Besides, other high rep people like them, only some newbies could actually negrep them and what would be the effect? One, maybe two points of loss, what's the matter. On the other hand, those newbies with low rep are scared of posting. They're not only thinking twice, they think ten times and in the result don't press the button not to lose even more rep.
2. The number helps in finding out who's writing the best posts - and, as has been said multiple times, this doesn't work as well. "The number means nothing/not much" I've seen much times. I think mostly people on your side were saying so. If it means nothing, what do need it for? It's useless, isn't it? Does it make some of you smile after noticing that your nothing-meaning-number is higher than mine? Do you need an appreciation of this kind? Because I can't understand why do you keep saying it's not something to care about, it's meaningless, but at the same time the reputation counter is helpful and it can't be deleted, and so I'm an immature drama queen deserving to be negrepped.

[minmay]

I believe the intention is to provide useful feedback on posts (whether it actually does that is open for debate).

[EvilMike]

I like this feature because:

1. It's funny to see reputation comments, especially after making a really bad post...

2. "this will become a forum of delusion" would have never been typed if it wasn't for this thread

3. it made snooze get mad again, and a bunch of other people are kind of mad for some reason

4. It made fquist post a graph (I would have given reputation but it wouldn't let me!!!)

5. It's actually kind of interesting if you use it for its intended purpose

Basically it makes the jcf slightly more interesting. Just stop taking it so seriously!

[Black Ninja]

I support the reputation system. Obviously idiots will use it for unintended purposes, but it is actually entertaining for all the reasons Mike just stated.

[Violet CLM]

The main argument I've seen in favor of reputation is that it provides feedback on posts, and the main argument against is the evaluation of people based on their rep number. So I have yet another proposal: make the number private. That way you still see how you're doing and what people think of your posts, but you don't get judged.

[Seren]

So I have yet another proposal: make the number private. That way you still see how you're doing and what people think of your posts, but you don't get judged.
I had this idea before as well and I agree with it. It has its flaws but I like it. The second possibility I found was exactly opposite - making it fully public, so everyone can see why and who negrepped someone. In this way, you could actually get an opinion about a given member (let's say, seeing he's got negrep mainly from people you don't respect and they gave it out without a real reason, while positive rep from people you like). The problem of this solution is obvious, everyone can see what you wrote and thus dislike and negrep you just due to your comment.

But I believe we're mature enough not to do such things, aren't we?

[spaceboy]

This thread keeps me laughing like a maniac.

[Obi1mcd]

But I believe we're mature enough not to do such things, aren't we?

Some of us, maybe.

[spaceboy]

Sir, I never saw you playing JJ2. What's your alias in the game?

[Jgke]

He has a bad computer, so he can't really play JJ2 online.

[Nonomu198]

I like this feature because:

1. It's funny to see reputation comments, especially after making a really bad post...

2. "this will become a forum of delusion" would have never been typed if it wasn't for this thread

3. it made snooze get mad again, and a bunch of other people are kind of mad for some reason

4. It made fquist post a graph (I would have given reputation but it wouldn't let me!!!)

5. It's actually kind of interesting if you use it for its intended purpose

Basically it makes the jcf slightly more interesting. Just stop taking it so seriously!

This, yes.

[spaceboy]

He has a bad computer, so he can't really play JJ2 online.
Such a bad one?

[Seren]

Such a bad one?
Have you ever seen JJ2 on 1 fps? I see it usually after joining a server. My record was about 20 fps (empty server, low detail, 8-bit mode, 320x200, etc. - but it's impossible to play like that anyway).

[Black Ninja]

Have you ever seen JJ2 on 1 fps? I see it usually after joining a server. My record was about 20 fps (empty server, low detail, 8-bit mode, 320x200, etc. - but it's impossible to play like that anyway).

I daresay that sounds like a device that shouldn't be called a computer at all.

[Speeza]

Next your be telling us he's on win95.

[Grytolle]

well maybe he tried to make his win95 computer faster by installing vista

[Jgke]

If I remember correctly, he has XP.

[Seren]

It's 2000, some time ago (maybe a year) I upgraded it from 98. For some reason everything started to work even slower then... Anyway, this is not a thread about my computer (or as my friends used to call it: "toaster", in the best case "calculator"), get back on topic.

[cooba]

I agree with EvilMike 100%. The only form of regulation I'd add personally is disabling posting new threads for people with negative reputation. They could still post fine, just unable to start any new threads.

I also think that this thread causes more trouble than the system itself, and if you were to (temporarily) close this thread, the problems would go away instantly.

[Seren]

The only form of regulation I'd add personally is disabling posting new threads for people with negative reputation. They could still post fine, just unable to start any new threads.
Torkell's idea about "bonuses for high rep and penalties for low rep" was half of the reasons I even started this whole thing. While as for now reputation is indeed, as EvilMike says, in a way just a "funny" feature, if it'd have any effect on "serious" features (such as posting or creating new threads) it would suck. If this number means nothing, I don't want it to decide about my privileges.

Edit: Also, a disablity to start new threads is just another reason to off-topic in the existing ones. You can already sometimes see newcomers saying that "I'm just posting here because it didn't let me create a new thread". The negrepped people could do just the same but all the time. It's not a solution.

[Raven aka StL]

The reputation feature isn't 1:1 at all... People might negrep others out of spite. Thus any form of penalty for low rep is a horribly messed up idea.

[Stijn]

I also think that this thread causes more trouble than the system itself, and if you were to (temporarily) close this thread, the problems would go away instantly.
Agreed. This has become a thread of delusion and I'm closing it. For specific complaints about reputation, well, you can PM an admin or open a new thread if it's really specific and not just general speculating and complaining.