Lag,your worst enemy.

[Lithium]

Reposted from jj.net forums.

Typical questions: do you usually lag,why so if you do,do you complain about lag,do you whine about lag and if you do,why so?

I don't usually whine about lag,and I think I can play even with lag. Too many players complain about lag "OMG I HAVE 5 MS MORE THAN USUALLY IT LAGS EXTREMELY FOR ME" and almost always when someone loses a match,he says "IT WAS LAG". Also,I don't think a few spectators will cause a loss for the clan/player that complains against them.

Your opinion?

[spaceboy]

Yes 400+ ms cuz my ISP sux, not really complaining cuz it won't make my lag smaller..

[Speeza]

People just need to learn to live with the lag in games. DanZeal servers eliminated some of the excuses, such as server side playing. I never complain about lag since not much can be done about it. I do dislike it in a game when someone rants out "Lag", I just think , yes OK lets keep playing now. On a bit of an unrelated subject I also dislike it when people put a comment on every kill you get in a duel.

Edit: That does suck R3p :(

[Lithium]

People just need to learn to live with the lag in games.

Indeed.

On a bit of an unrelated subject I also dislike it when people put a comment on every kill you get in a duel.

Comments like "HAHA","OWNED","YEAH I RULZ" annoy me more than "IT WAS LAG",and also comments by spectators "LOL HE PWNED YOU XDDD" are even more annoying.

[Vegito]

Since I moved to Ireland I cannot play JJ2, and if I can, I usually lag a lot cause of the interwebs here. That does suck and I do say so in game too. I don't like to not show a reason for losing, if there is a good reason for why I lose anyway.

[Enigma]

I generally don't lag that much. I sometimes exclaim "WAT" if I do, though I tend to employ this little shout in pretty much every situation that turns to my disadvantage, be it because of lag, an unexpected trick by my opponent or a screw-up of my own. With that said, there's usually no time for lenghtier complaints in mid-game (unless you're playing something like an 8vs8).

[FQuist]

Who else read this as "lag your worst enemy"? I thought this would be a utility of some kind :(

[Nerd]

People just need to learn to live with the lag in games.

Wrong. Patches or even fully new binaries could use TCP for sending the game data. This would eliminate packet loss completely, but it would add overhead and increase the likelihood of latency-related issues (like carrot kills etc.). Note that packet loss is the main reason for many lag effects, for example airhits (latency issues can commonly cause these too, though), 3HKs, fake carrots, non-spawning PUs and carrots etc.

Ping also tells much about lag, though, as the number of hops correlates with both the number of UDP packets dropped and the ping. It also causes delay in the movement of enemies, which might cause godmodes.

[Superjazz]

Who else read this as "lag your worst enemy"? I thought this would be a utility of some kind :(

ASDFSDF:S_ :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DA H. I wanna lag hmm...Fquist. :D

[Speeza]

Wrong. Patches or even fully new binaries could use TCP for sending the game data. This would eliminate packet loss completely, but it would add overhead and increase the likelihood of latency-related issues (like carrot kills etc.). Note that packet loss is the main reason for many lag effects, for example airhits (latency issues can commonly cause these too, though), 3HKs, fake carrots, non-spawning PUs and carrots etc.

Ping also tells much about lag, though, as the number of hops correlates with both the number of UDP packets dropped and the ping. It also causes delay in the movement of enemies, which might cause godmodes.

OK nerd a fair charming exclusive and superlative point, but until the time comes with a patch, there going to have to keep there annoying room-mate lag.

[chillax]

I usually don't lag atleast not much, some time ago I didn't lag at all(atleast not on my screen), but recently I have some lagbursts :P

[Lithium]

Who else read this as "lag your worst enemy"? I thought this would be a utility of some kind :(

Lag your worst enemy for free! Yay!!!

[Torkell]

Who else read this as "lag your worst enemy"? I thought this would be a utility of some kind :(

Coming soon, to a JJ2 game near you...

Lithium roasted Fquist
Lithium roasted Fquist
Fquist: "Oh (-), I'm losing"
Fquist: /lag Lithium
Fquist roasted Lithium
Fquist roasted Lithium
Fquist roasted Lithium
Lithium: WTF LAG
Fquist roasted Lithium

[Lithium]

Nice one lol

[minmay]

The best Internet connection available for my house is DSL, and I also seem to live far away from pretty much everybody, so my ping times are usually over 200ms.
As for actually affecting my ability to play, not sure since I have almost nothing to compare to.

[PurpleJazz]

I'm lucky if I have less than 999+ms these days. :p
No joke!

[Ashurna]

when I see people complain about lag, I always assume they do it because they don't want to admit to their self that they messed up or that they where outperformed. seriously if I let a seeker get within four squares of me for half a second I expect to get hit, and I consider myself fortunate when I don't.

[Troglobite]

Lag and I are great friends. He's prevented me from taking damage when I should have been hit, and even saved my life a few times.

I'm not that great of a player, and the number of times I die because I make stupid mistakes far outweighs the number of times I die because of lag. I personally try to never complain about lag, because it does annoy me a bit when other players complain excessively.

[Vegito]

when I see people complain about lag, I always assume they do it because they don't want to admit to their self that they messed up or that they where outperformed. seriously if I let a seeker get within four squares of me for half a second I expect to get hit, and I consider myself fortunate when I don't.

I do that within 1 tile only. No less. Dodging a seek thats 1 tile away is easy enough usually so if I do get hit, it is usually lag. Then again, I dont complain then either. I complain when a seek is 4 tiles away and I still get hit }> .. even though it exploded 4 tiles away :)

[[GpW]Urbs]

ehh WAY too technical for me... tile counting that is...

[NovaStar]

Best speeds I can expect are 350-400ms at the least, not that much of a problem but I do just type out 'air' or sth not really for complaining reasons and to be all 'THIS IS SO UNFAIR ZOMGZ'... actually, I don't know why really!

But when I go over my bandwidth cap and am on dial-up speed with something like 4000ms+ on each server yeah I have a fucking reason to complain but I don't. I just blame myself for going over the cap. I am too used to playing with such high lag in my earlier years.

[[GpW]Urbs]

Played a game vs CC the other day which is on jjnet under video on demand.
Watched it again last night and I noticed how I myself had been wronged by the infamous "airhit". I've played jazz for some time now, and I can't say I've ever took notice of "airs".

And that gave me a pause. I started pondering as to why. Well for one, I suppose I'm not a careful enough jj2 player and I still adhere to my old way from the olden days, where runing around with or without pu's was the name of the game for the majority of jazzers (as opposed to the young players of today who after playing for only a month or two, can do tricks I'll never be able to duplicate myself). So that was one explanation.

Then I started thinking about that airhit from the point of view of this topic. Was I angry about that airhit at the time?
Not really. I was only angry that I had got hit. I was angry, that my team, instead of going for the kill of a pu-less Fawful would have to go R whereas just a couple of seconds ago their flagcarrier had had 3 and seek PU on DW. I also panicked and went for the carrot where I got hit again, but this time it was valid.
In other words I guess I always viewed airhits as my own fault. I'm not a very self-confident player I guess, and I tend to believe the worst of myself which also affects the quality of my game (if you don't expect to perform there is no way you will perform). I suppose players with more self-confidence and talent are the ones shouting: AIR! during games, to show it wasn't their fault. And these players (for whatever reasons) are genuinely better than me on average - so maybe shouting Air! isn't all that bad.

On the other hand, watching the rerun of that airhit, I noticed how me gettin hit by air, was at least to a certain degree, my fault as well. I was in an open space above the carrot and seek pu. We all know both sides tend to exchange volleys of seeks up there, so I should have just played it safe and should have stayed a bit lower in respects to that area.
In other words, airs are a reality we have to incorporate in our gameplay. We know there are areas where such air are less likely to occur, as you might be able to see the enemy from afar and he can't do anything to hurt you which gives you time to retreat. So although the air wasn't my fault, it actually was.
One has to always take into account the probability of airs and where they are more probable to happen. Then depending on your team mates health and ammo and depending on the enemies health, you have to decide which would be the best strategy - to stay exposed to a possible air, or to hide away and camp in an "air-free zone" somewhere.

From a psychological perspective, players who shout Air will most likely be better players than the ones who don't. But they might be more annoying. And what they themselves should realize is, that airs have to be taken into account when decidind on your strategy and movement in the level. When they somehow manage to incorporate that aspect of the game in their gameplay, they will not only be good or above-average players, they will be great players. It's pretty likely they will also be viewed as generally nicer:)

[Treylina]

I only say air if I die of it. Saying it when I just got hit isn't a good idea since it lets the enemy know your health. And I don't really bother saying that when it's bouncers going through walls...because they will always appear in a different direction on each players screen.

[Lithium]

Funny how most people keep using the "IT WAS LAG" reason when they die or lose and every time they try to convince you it's true,even if you know it isn't.

gg

[Treylina]

I don't know about that...sometimes on your screen it hits them, but it appears for them 2 tiles away. But lag isn't the main cause of airs if you're playing in a stable server (if it's warping around, it's rather unstable...then I understand.).

[Grytolle]

Except that no one else ever can know if it was an air or not, Ron. You're just trying to soothe your own ego by thinking you *did* kill Kenny fair and square :p

[Superjazz]

Urbs;463988'](Monology)

This is one reason I dislike levels like Distopia. The 'airhits' occur the most often in levels that have too much open space.

After reading the other previous posts as well, I have to admit that although I whine about lag very rarely, I definitely wouldn't complain about a seeker that damages me 1 tile away from myself. I know it's easy to dodge slow seekers that haven't been given any speed, but one can't seriously expect all seekers to be visible 100% of their journey in an internet game. I get airhits most oftenly when I'm expecting them on wide an open areas, so of course I move according to my expectations, and avoid those places when I know the enemy might just send seekers my way. I definitely won't go too risky and try to dodge everything that points at me. I would say it's nitpicky to complain if one can't dodge fast seekers, because some of them just aren't visible to everyone in real-time.

[Vegito]

Urbs, how about this example...
You know I live in Ireland now & all. A while ago I played in BBswing, just a friendly game.
I stood at the upper left of the level.. being able to look very far right. Hiding, sorta. Just being idle.

I saw a bullet in the UTTER FAR RIGHT OF THE SCREEN and the next thing I get hit. Thats some 20 tiles you're talking about.
Is it any wonder I complain about lag if that happens??? O+

And that does happen quite often actually. Random packet loss or so. }>

[[GpW]Urbs]

Guess so.
But like I said, if you ain't overdoing it, complaining is allright.
Yet selflimitation should be practiced imo.

[PurpleJazz]

As much as I understand lag is an issue, I still think too many people use it as excuse for losing to not admit that they were simply outplayed.