Thursday is going to be Jazzy

[Haze]

The Cliffster trolling us again via Twitter or actual something coming up? Stop playing with our hearts, man!

Thursday is going to be Jazzy.
@therealcliffyb (http://twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/15166564227616768)

...might even be rabbity...
@therealcliffyb (http://twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/15169368140808192)

Personally hoping for at least some Holiday Hare action. What say you all?

[Stijn]

CliffyB cleverly dodging the J2O twitter panel!

[Iam Canadian]

Hopefully this is genuine for once. I don't want to live in a world where games like Splatterhouse can get a revival but good ol' Jazz Jackrabbit can't.

[Haze]

The word is out that UDK with iOS support lands today. There's more. Epic made an iOS tutorial with a "classic" character... Any guesses?
@danacowly (http://twitter.com/danacowley/status/15347396850487296)
Pretty sure this is what CliffyB was hinting at.

Mixed feelings, from "!#$@#%$^% it's not a new game/free release! :(" to "hey, at least they're still acknowledging that he exists! :)".

[Obi1mcd]

Well, I doubt anybody seriously expected JJ3 anyway.

[Haze]

Confirmed! Jazz "returns" in UDK iOS example.

You guys are pretty good. :-) "@aaronlinde: @danacowley Jazz Jackrabbit? Please say it's Jazz Jackrabbit."
@danacowley (http://twitter.com/danacowley/status/15387690174259200)

Not sure if she was meant to spoil it before UDK release, but hey! News!

[Toni]

Just don't let him to see the JDC page. Logo is very good.

[Stijn]

Do note that Epic generally does not use demos with assets they don't plan to use for a real game.

Remember the original UE3 demos, with Gears of War assets? GoW wasn't even announced back then, and I remember reading an interview where Tim Sweeney basically said they never make stuff just for a demo.

Of course, this was years ago, so things might have changed since then.

[Slaz]

Indeed, if you receive the UDK newsletter from Epic, you can clearly see that all assets in the comparison screenshots contain characters/foliage/stuff from existing, and upcoming games. This could mean that Jazz will eventually get a remake on PC/iOS.

[cooba]

This could mean that Jazz will eventually get a remake on PC/iOS.Because it obviously can't be a new game?

[ThunderPX]

As long as it's not an iPhone exclusive.

[GoldRabbit]

Whatever this is, I am overly hyped to see our favourite rabbit back on track, even if it is something minor like this. If what Slaz says turns out to be true, I would be very happy; this series should not die, not even after 16 years.

And yes, I really hope it is for the PC. I wouldn't mind it being a remake either. I really can't see the game going full 3D, so I think it will be 3D from a fixed perspective.

[Sfaizst]

just take a look at this:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/16/udk-out-for-ios-epic-demonstrates-with-jazz-jackrabbit/

[n00b]

<a href="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2010/12/jazz-jackrabbit-ios-02.jpg"><img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2010/12/jazz-jackrabbit-ios-02.jpg" width="670" alt=""></a>

Man oh man, Im so happy to control Blocky the Green Bunny in this Radtastic Twin Stick Shooter. Its a Snake eat Snake game in Jungler 2 I I mean Jazz Jackrabbit iOs

[Sfaizst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYQWN2th1I (Djazz posted me on msn, the linke before was posted me by Fraesh D)

[GoldRabbit]

I am a liiittle bit disappointed by the screenshots, but it's better than nothing. I am still very excited, and as long as it plays well, that would be okay.

Don't like how there is no resemblance to anything we've seen before. If you replace Jazz with someone else there would be absolutely nothing in common with the series.

Still, this is a demo and I'm sure there will be many changes. Looking forward to something familiar! *still hopes for 3D with fixed perspective*

[n00b]

I am a liiittle bit disappointed by the screenshots, but it's better than nothing.

I don't see how this is any different than the usual Jazz reference like Cliffy pointing at the framed cover art for Jazz 1 in a Studio tour, or Cliffy going "Hey Jazz would be cool for XBLA". Its better than nothing, I guess, but its same level of barely something we've always gotten.

You don't even fight turtles! The simplest thing, and its not even there. Something tells me this was completely unrelated to Jazz and someone went "Well its sort of cartoony, lets just toss him in"

[ThunderPX]

That's the weirdest Jazz model I've ever seen.

EDIT: Relevant question; did the UE3 demo using GOW assets actually have anything that looked like GOW's gameplay? Because if not, then the "they're just using art assets they have lying around" theory still stands.

[n00b]

So I tried looking for an already compiled version of this game that I could just stick on my phone and I found this (http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/89166/unreal-development-kit-udk-jazz-jackrabbit-ios-tutorial-kit) which is just the assets.
Apparently the music chosen for the menu was the JJ2 ending theme. What the what
Gameplay music was also a perfect choice for a twinstick shooter: The Jazz 2 Castle level

[Jgke]

Well, atleast they reuse good music.

[cooba]

FI><0RS TEH JAZZ JACKRABBIT!!!!!!!

[GoldRabbit]

Am currently waiting for downloading the assets.

Shouldn't this establish a new world record or something? 12 and so years until a full fledged sequel? (curse you duke nukem!)

[Haze]

FI><0RS TEH JAZZ JACKRABBIT!!!!!!!
Oh boy, here we go again! :p

Seriously, I'm willing to bet a few factors went into this. Not only is Jazz a recognizable character people still associate with Epic Games but by plopping him into one of their products (even if it's just an SDK) they handily re-affirm their trademark.

I mean, when was the last time you saw the words "Jazz" and "Jackrabbit" mentioned in a trademark disclaimer? See attachment for Epic lulz, if you know what I'm saying.

[cooba]

Shouldn't this establish a new world record or something? 12 and so years until a full fledged sequel? (curse you duke nukem!)There's absolutely no way of knowing if there will be a "full fledged sequel" made out of this 15 minutes UDK tutorial. All you see here is speculation.

Sorry to shoot your hopes down but there's not much to be excited about.

[n00b]

Well, atleast they reuse good music.
Yeah I guess, but if you're going to reuse music why you would not just reuse the menu music for the menu.
Thats baffling.

[GoldRabbit]

Well, even if it turns out to be nothing (which I hope not), it's still awesome that Epic remembered about Jazz. Maybe they acknowledge the fact that we are still here.

I lol'd at Haze's comment.

[DoubleGJ]

Yeah I guess, but if you're going to reuse music why you would not just reuse the menu music for the menu.
Thats baffling.
nah, man, that'd be just boring and predictable

[n00b]

http://imgur.com/9JfuR.png
http://imgur.com/n6OO7.png

I'm going to try compiling it in a bit and see how it plays.
EDIT- Oh I need to be an iOS developer to put it on my phone. Ehhhhh

EDITEDIT-Played it in the editor. Was kinda hard since I could only use one stick at a time.
The music labelled "Menu" shows up when you die, it works. Im still iffy on the castle stage being used in game.
Gameplay is a standard twinstick shooter, enemies keep respawning until you die. One dropped a laser gun upgrade which gave me rapid fire. I don't know if theres any others.
Jazz talks ****ing constantly. Its annoying. Basically Bubsy 3d but with Jazz.
*shooting at snakes* "WHATAYA WAITIN FOR??"
EDIT- Also I was wrong, there are Turtles. I'll try to get a decent pic of them
EDITEDIT-
http://imgur.com/hVbLe.png
Their death animation is hilarious

[FQuist]

That's just ugly.

[Violet CLM]

Eh, models that are designed to be viewed from the top aren't going to look their best when viewed from the front. Facts of life. I, personally, am excited for this, even though I have absolutely no way to play it; he's got the right clothes again, y'all! That's good news! Can we learn a lesson from JJA and not be too critical, lest our reaction is perceived to be "we don't want any more Jazz at all because nothing could ever be perfect"? Epic has noticed us -- let's not scare them away like we did GameTitan.

[n00b]

That's just ugly.

I think if it wasn't for the Art Clokey cubes comin out of their heads, the snakes and turtles would actually be a little adorable.
Jazz is just plain ugly from any angle though, and has the least personality in his animations out of the tiny cast.

[Obi1mcd]

Fquist's right, they are ugly. Why on earth did they make the heads cube-shaped??

[Slaz]

If a full version based on this will ever see the light of day, I hope the dev's will base their actions on our reactions towards the demo or possibly any upcomming early builds. At least, from the looks of it, it's going to be more 'Jazzy' than the GBA game.

I'd say it's too early for FI><0RS to be needed at this moment. After all, Jazz's early 'preview' sprites from JJ1 prerelease screenshots were looking strange as well.

[ThunderPX]

I keep expecting Jazz to scream "HAAAAAAAAX!!!11"

[cooba]

From Mark Rein:Just to be certain: this is not intended to be the start of a new Jazz Jackrabb<!>it game from Epic. Shane wanted to make a tutorial to showing how you could use Unreal Kismet to whip up a quick little game prototype for iOS. He and Cliff thought it would be funny to use Jazz as the character for it. He did a great job on it and it turned out to be a fantastic tutorial on how to use Unreal Kismet, the powerful visual scripting tool in Unreal Engine 3.

[Xtreem]

Its not actually bad to play, its a bit like Jazz Jackrabbit meets Geometry Wars, just not as fun as either of the original games.

I've made a short video of it anyway for anyone who doesn't want to go through the bother of setting up the Unreal Development Kit just to check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ZpYxuWbcc

It is a shame Epic has no interest in creating another Jazz game, something 2D on XBLA / PSN would make Epic a fair bit of extra pocket money i'm sure. (not that epic really short of money)

[ThunderPX]

I honestly don't know why they don't actually make a Jazz 3.

EDIT: By that I mean, I see plenty of excitement about this around the internet, followed by disappointment that there's not actually a new Jazz game. Anyone know of a good way we could get Epic's attention?

[Stijn]

EDIT: By that I mean, I see plenty of excitement about this around the internet, followed by disappointment that there's not actually a new Jazz game. Anyone know of a good way we could get Epic's attention?
I'm pretty sure Epic knows exactly what the public reaction to this is, I highly doubt they need us to tell them.

There's a myriad of reasons Epic could have not to make another Jazz Jackrabbit game. I personally think it's just not the kind of game they want to make; they have been in the muscular-dudes-with-guns business since Unreal Tournament (1999) and a relatively childish game like Jazz Jackrabbit simply doesn't fit in with that. Or maybe it's because people who liked Jazz in their childhood are now grown up and are no longer likely to buy games like that.

(Yes, Titan Studios, but it could very well be that they adapt to the Epic Games style as well)

[Violet CLM]

All right, I managed to play it following <a href="http://digiex.net/guides-reviews/guides-tutorials/application-guides/7555-play-jazz-jackrabbit-ios-iphone-ipad-tech-demo-your-pc.html">the installation instructions</a> (warning: site contains large quantities of illegal software, don't click around). It's pretty, but yeah, there's not much too it, and for a game series that's always been about pushing technological/genre boundaries, it doesn't try very hard to be a particularly interesting game. It's good to know they remember the franchise exists, though, if nothing else.

[n00b]

From Mark Rein:

From CliffyB
Think of this as a way of testing the waters for interest. You never know. I'm open to finding a right partner who could potentially bring Jazz back. I've been talking to some industry friends who are poking around.

[DoubleGJ]

There's a myriad of reasons Epic could have not to make another Jazz Jackrabbit game. I personally think it's just not the kind of game they want to make; they have been in the muscular-dudes-with-guns business since Unreal Tournament (1999) and a relatively childish game like Jazz Jackrabbit simply doesn't fit in with that.
It's not an entirely valid point, though. See IO Interactive: since their beginning nearlt all they were making were Hitman games, then they made the even more brutal Kane & Lynch, and then... Mini Ninjas.

[Slaz]

Developers usually make what the majority of players, or basically just the audience they aim for, want to play. And the days that platform games were the main thing are clearly over, can't deny that. Because of this, I can see how Epic feels about Jazz. A cool character in a cool game, yet today it wouldn't bring that kind of player base as games like Gears of War would do. Even though the interest for Jazz outside of the community appears to be significantly high.

So, I think CliffyB is doing the right thing. Finding a studio like Chair Entertainment that might be able to finish the job and please us fans and other gamers without the requirement of 'fixxorz' or anything like that. :p

[Nimrod]

All right, I managed to play it following <a href="http://digiex.net/guides-reviews/guides-tutorials/application-guides/7555-play-jazz-jackrabbit-ios-iphone-ipad-tech-demo-your-pc.html">the installation instructions</a> (warning: site contains large quantities of illegal software, don't click around). It's pretty, but yeah, there's not much too it, and for a game series that's always been about pushing technological/genre boundaries, it doesn't try very hard to be a particularly interesting game. It's good to know they remember the franchise exists, though, if nothing else.

Grow up.

Click around, that site has been the thing paying to keep JJ2 alive for years now.

[Xtreem]

All right, I managed to play it following <a href="http://digiex.net/guides-reviews/guides-tutorials/application-guides/7555-play-jazz-jackrabbit-ios-iphone-ipad-tech-demo-your-pc.html">the installation instructions</a> (warning: site contains large quantities of illegal software, don't click around).

So your happy to browse our site? and use my tutorial... yet feel the need to make a totally irrelevant comment about the site providing you and the Jazz community with something useful?

If you actually spent time on the Digiex you would realise we aim to provide high quality tutorials and host rare / hard to find downloads, such as Jazz Jackrabbit 2 for example. Digiex hosting JJ2 and the list server is likely the reason more people are playing Jazz 2 online than in the early 2000's.

[Treylina]

I don't think they would "lose out" if they were to ever make a Jazz game in a sidescrolling platform style with updated graphics and such. Look at Sonic (ok, even if you don't like the newer games) he's still getting 2D games and people seem to care more about that than the 3D Sonic because the Genesis/Megadrive games are truly what made him popular. To be honest that would be the best way to revive Jazz. Better graphics, new characters and a better online system etc. (or I could bore you with even more ideas which I don't want to do..)

[ThunderPX]

If they're gonna do it, I'm pretty sure now is the best time with the retro fad going around.

[Obi1mcd]

Exactly. Look at New Super Mario Bros. Wii or Donkey Kong Country Returns.

[FQuist]

Ok, history proves I have to nip these things in the bud beforehand. So: digiex's worth/contribution/legality is offtopic here in this topic. Any post that even mentions Digiex (unrelated to linking to a tutorial or JJiOS related thing) after this is going to be deleted and its author might find him/herself getting warned.

[EvilMike]

iOS would be a good choice for a jazz game. The character isn't really suited to a big budget AAA games, and epic isn't really in the business of making games for XBLA or whatever (that's more of an indie studio thing). Something new like the iphone/ipad on the other hand would be an excellent platform for a small(ish) game from a big studio.

Of course, Jazz looks a bit odd with a cube for a head, but it's just a tech demo.

[Obi1mcd]

But I don't have an iPhone. :(
You have a point, though.

[n00b]

and epic isn't really in the business of making games for XBLA or whatever (that's more of an indie studio thing). Something new like the iphone/ipad on the other hand would be an excellent platform for a small(ish) game from a big studio.
This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Not only does XBLA have a seperate portal for indie games (making your reasoning baseless), larger companies do contribute to it and PSN on a more regular basis than they do iOs platforms. The only company I can think of that seems to heavily lean towards the App Store, instead of heavily leaning towards the console services or having equal footing in both camps, is Square Enix. It probably helps that the types of games they typically release on it (new/updated rpgs/strategy games) are much more suited to a platform without buttons then say a platformer.
The main audience for a Jazz Jackrabbit game will be older gamers with nostalgia, I can't think of a better way to turn a good chunk of them off then by saying "And you use a touch screen to play it!". Most people do not like touch controls for a good number of genres, and the ones that typically do that Jazz would fit into would probably disappoint many people.
When you say "New Jazz Jackrabbit game, what do you want" most people will probably go "Quality 2d platformer". You're just not going to get that on an iphone, you're going to get that as a download on XBLA,PSN and Steam. Hell if Epic would get off their anti-Nintendo kick, a new 2d Jazz would probably do gangbusters on the WiiWare service which has seen a healthy amount of retro revivals from the Konami Rebirth series to Blaster Master Overdrive.

[GoldRabbit]

To be honest, I agree with n00b. Reviving such an old franchise which, in itself, is fan-service for older players, by putting it through such a radical transformation is not the way to go. Either they make something at least familiar (not some random green hare with a malformed head shooting snakes), or at least on the platform the original game used to be.

Remember JJA? No, me neither. The fact that it was on a GBA was alone the reason the game played so differently (read:crappily). I think the best way to go would be to just put time into making it on the PC, and actually listen to the fanbase.

Of course, what I've just said is obsolete until they actually announce the game.

[ThunderPX]

The fact that it was on a GBA was alone the reason the game played so differently (read:crappily).

... what.

[EvilMike]

This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Not only does XBLA have a seperate portal for indie games (making your reasoning baseless), larger companies do contribute to it and PSN on a more regular basis than they do iOs platforms.
I know there's a section for "indie" games, but it's really a bit more complicated than that. There are actually a lot of indie games in the "non-indie" section of XBLA... the difference is that they are games which have been made with a bit more of a budget (although nothing huge), and usually with a lot more talent involved. The stuff you find in the "indie" section (XBLIG) tends to be a tier below that. Derik Yu, for example, has a game coming out soon on XBLA, even though he's solidly in the indie camp (he runs TIGSource). There are basically two stores on xbox live: there's XBLA, which is professional quality, and XBLIG, which is more ameteur.

You're right that larger companies do contribute to it too. It's just that they don't usually tend to be companies like epic or id, who seem to mostly be interested in AAA titles and (perhaps moreso) developing new game engines. And, when they do put stuff on there, it's usually ports of older games (id for example has doom, quake, etc on there, but nothing new).

edit: oh yeah and I chose my words poorly in that post. I said XBLA is more of an "indie" thing but I should have said it's more of a small developer thing (many are owned by larger companies). Although there are still a lot of indie devs on it too. Just thought I'd add to the confusion a bit more.

That's why I think the iOS is a good choice: it's a new platform that they can develop new technology for (it's a good market to get into) and at the same time, they don't have to feel compelled to make a huge game that has to stand up to their console efforts.

I should have mentioned in my other post, I don't really care about a new jazz game, and probably won't play it if it's on the iphone. I just think it's a good platform for epic to get into, business wise, and a property like jazz jackrabbit would be a good choice to use for a game on it.

Weird side note: of the major companies that have released new games on XBLA, most of them seem to be Japanese (eg konami, square-enix). The really big american companies seem to prefer to release their games on disc, except for a couple of shovelware pieces from companies that are already known for that kind of stuff.

The main audience for a Jazz Jackrabbit game will be older gamers with nostalgia, I can't think of a better way to turn a good chunk of them off then by saying "And you use a touch screen to play it!". Most people do not like touch controls for a good number of genres, and the ones that typically do that Jazz would fit into would probably disappoint many people.
I don't like touch screens either, but I think games using them can still make money. Granted, they won't control as well as on the a console, but I honestly doubt we'll ever see epic develop a downloadable game for consoles. They just don't seem like a company *interested* in doing that (and nothing they've done in the last 10 years suggests they would). One thing that is possible is for them to is let some other company develop it, like they did for that GBA Jazz game, but that's a different situation (and a more hopeful one if you want a 2d platformer).

[GoldRabbit]

... what.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Nintendo fanboy and I like the GBA a lot. I admit, I let my personal opinion drip into that post, but let's face the facts: overall, JJA was of a worse quality than it's predecessors. I think that if they were to develop it on the PC things would've been different.

The GBA had more limited graphics than the PC, and the controls were, in my opinion, bulkier. What I'm saying is that the GBA limited the game more than it should've been by the fact that it wasn't first party.

I chose my words wrong when I said that, but the bottom line is: the hardware placed limits on JJA which hit it hard, both graphically and gameplay speaking. That, and the fact that it wasn't Epic that made it sealed its fate.

What does this have to do with JJ3/4/n+1? Well, I think that if Epic chooses to make it for the iPhone, the final result will be radically different from what we expect, just because of the hypothetical touch support (which is more like 110% confirmed). I can't deny that the iPhone has great graphics, so there should be no worries in that department. It's just the gameplay I'm worrying about.

Also, as a reply to EM's post. I think that more people would buy it if they actually put effort in it as they would for their main franchises. Epic demonstrated that they still care about the copyright, and a venture on the iWhatever platforms would be just too different, especially when the niche they're focusing on would be those accustomed to the older controls.

Not only that, but I hope they also know that Jazz should remain a sidescroller game, especially after the failure (hard word, I know) they had with JJ3. That way, they would also get on with the Retro fad that is currently going around, thus gaining even more players on a platform that rarely gets this kind of games nowadays.

Just my 2 cents at 1 am.

[minmay]

JCF Drinking Game: Take one sip for every mention of Epic Games in a negative context. When you find a mention of Epic Games in a positive context, stop drinking because you're reading the wrong forum.

[ThunderPX]

The GBA had the right controls for JJ gameplay; it's the fact that GameTitan messed with the formula that screwed it up. Replace the carrot grenade with a run button and get rid of diagonal shooting and voila! In addition, while the GBA might not have been able to handle something like JJ2 properly, JJA isn't exactly pushing the system's boundaries; it could've looked a lot better.

That said, iPhones and iPads are about as suitable for gaming as this thing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Gage)

[Stijn]

JCF Drinking Game: Take one sip for every mention of Epic Games in a negative context. When you find a mention of Epic Games in a positive context, stop drinking because you're reading the wrong forum.
Just saying that Epic is probably not interested in making another Jazz Jackrabbit game right now isn't necessarily negative.

[minmay]

it was an exaggeration for the purpose of comedy, geez

[Stijn]

Yeah but saying the general vibe is that Epic is the big bad here is just wrong.

[EvilMike]

Yeah I wasn't being negative. I think epic is one of the better developers out there, as sad as UT3 was.

[Slaz]

Yeah I wasn't being negative. I think epic is one of the better developers out there, as sad as UT3 was.

And even that is arguable. I'm still a pretty active UT3 player, while I moved on from the Xbox 360 version to the PC version due to the poor support and activity on the X360 version. That's not Epic's problem btw, they tried to deal with MS to support community created maps as DLC regularly, yet those ideas failed to pass MS' strict DLC guidelines. Just like Epic always prefered free DLC and 'bonus packs' while MS fought them back on that too.. Oh well, the PC version is still doing fine (not as good as UT99/2004 that is). ;)

[SpyroTheDragon]

Lets hope they have something in store for this Year of the Rabbit.

[Hare]

Cliffy B. via twitter. (Jan 16)
Someone needs to do a reboot of "Redneck Rampage" STAT.
I wonder what other properties are due for a reboot...

[JeremyHDragon]

Im very excited for a new Jazz Jackrabbit game.

[SpyroTheDragon]

For a moment I expected a new Jazz game before a new Spyro game. But then Friday was a little "spyroey" and "dragony" and I am skeptical (yet optimistic) about the future of either series.