How to make race fun?

[Treylina]

A lot of players dislike race mode. While I think it's partly to do with level design, it is also the mechanics;

1. You can keep spamming shots. This makes it more difficult to disperse at the start than it should be. Same with reason 2. However, this can be circumvented with AS.
2. Treasure mode with its additional bad mechanics - Not being able to go on springs while blinking. And the terrible chain-shooting (being able to hit others while blinking). Fortunately the latter won't happen in 5.0 anymore.
3. The weapon balance is bad. Powerups are almost completely useless and toaster is trash.
4. Melee moves are virtually redundant, (unless you're Jazz reaching some high up platform, though if that's the case, the level is unbalanced). This is linked to powerups being useless other than being full ammo boxes, and bad weapon balance. Also, that you have to slow down, and you don't ever want to slow down in such a game mode unless it lets you get ahead. This can be circumvented with level design partly (respawning buttstomp blocks to shortcuts, perhaps? I know that couldn't be utilised back then, but it can now).
5. Once the players reach ahead too much, it's virtually impossible to make a comeback. Some might like this for those who feel entitled to winning, but this isn't the case with other gamemodes. Also, always being ahead peacefully will get boring at some point.

Now for common level design issues in race levels:
1. Too cramped passages. Good luck trying to dodge anything. Unless it's a shortcut in race, it's simply annoying.
2. Unintuitive design. It's simply frustrating losing just because you don't know where the important things are.
3. This reason 90% of players won't care about. Bad character balance. I know it's partly a mechanical issue too, however.
4. Wind... why would you add that in a race? It disrupts the flow or/and exacerbates clusterfights.
5. A single spring dissapearing (for a while) after use. I figure this is only in one level, though it's still annoying, for the same reason I dislike wind in race levels.

I made this because I'd like to make a race pack many players (and me!) can actually enjoy. Though I don't think I'll start working on them until race mode is fixed. I will not use treasure mode for it, as it's complicated and annoying.

Some may find it odd for me to point out flaws rather than say what would make a race level fun, though I can bet once all (or most) of those don't exist, it may actually be enjoyable.

So, what do you think would make a race level fun?

[Treylina]

I always found it annoying how you can join to a race in another server while the race is already going! There should be a function like 'you joined too late so you are out of the game'.
Also when cycling to a level with the race mode or when you are starting a server with race, there is always a countdown. I think this gamemode should be... how can i explain...
make the game stopped when you cycle to a level and /cstart with the countdown with large letters.
Also when joining as a spectator, the countdown isn't necesary.

I hope this post means something.

This isn't about actual race mode. Everyone who's tried it online knows how broken it is. That's why custom race levels get made in treasure instead. I can assure when the real race mode is fixed, that'll no longer happen. It was just made only with local splitscreen in mind.

[Jelly Jam]

This isn't about actual race mode. Everyone who's tried it online knows how broken it is. That's why custom race levels get made in treasure instead.
Oh, I'm sorry then :p

[Violet CLM]

Race is already fun and none of what you mention is a serious issue.

[Blackraptor]

Race is already fun and none of what you mention is a serious issue.

Seconded. The only real issue is that very few people other than myself, Pyromanus, Rag etc. bothered to make new race maps for people to play :(

[cooba]

So, what do you think would make a race level fun?Not playing them with the least agile character.

[Primpy]

Not playing them with the least agile character.

However, some people like playing with Lori. This is not an option.

[Treylina]

Not playing them with the least agile character.

I did say bad balance was a mechanical issue too, you know.

That to say, running and jumping isn't always the least agile. It depends on the layout. Running and jumping is usually faster than uppercut, though if you don't have space to gain momentum (also slopes on corners tend to screw up momentum), uppercut is faster. The wierd hotspot she has isn't an agility issue in itself. Her sidekick is usually the fastest at obtaining powerups, but that doesn't mean much in race. Oh and all characters run at the same speed.

I'm not going to keep changing character just for certain levels. It's annoying. But gee it sure would be nice if plus would allow me to change character without rejoining.

[Treylina]

Necrobump because since I played Race with Spaz in a JDC event somewhat recently, it still has a lot of flaws. I got salty and stopped at some point. This is probably partially to do with the fact race still uses treasure mode as a workaround, though there are other reasons too.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of players dislike race mode, and the 99.5% of them use Spaz. The main problems are not a matter of character usage.

What I consider the main flaws and important elements:

Unintintuitive level design - I'm going to be pedantic this time. It's that many custom made levels like to enforce backtracking, and from my experience in all the events, it confuses the hell out of the majority of players, especially those who haven't played the levels before. And that kills a lot of the competition. The solution is to simply stop using backtracking or at least make it a lot more obvious than a puny text string. Like clearly indicate crucial paths and remove redundant dead ends. Also lets not forget the hidden shortcuts. This is why the same handful of players keep winning.

Another one is off-screen obstacles. A great example is where a ceiling spring is placed conveniently above a ground spring that if you hold on right, you go into a warp that takes you back. How am I supposed to know that would take me back before then?

Another one is tight spaces, especially 1 tile vertical ones that force you to slow down...with poles between them that push you back. Do you like inevitably being shot/pushed amidst the chaos? Especially into a pole?

Partially related, I consider flow to be important in race too. After all, it's about going fast, so if you have to slow down a lot or get stuck against walls and poles, it doesn't feel as fun. Some obstacles are okay, but they shouldn't be so tight to the point of often creating clusterfights.

The next is to do with the inherent game design of JJ2 - The fact you can spam projectiles. The causes every start to become an uncontrollable clusterfuck. I did see one level somewhat get around this by giving everyone a shield at the start, though unfortunately it had too many tight spots and a stupidly placed morph (better yet, it looked like it was placed behind a wall but it wasn't - the wall was layer 3) which made me not enjoy the level anymore.

Sure, every first timer of a map is not going to be at their best, but race is far too punishing to first timers, and a lot of that comes down to the level design.

If peoples gripes with race mode are disregarded (or at least if no one makes better levels), it's always going to be a widely disliked game mode. I actually put the effort to explain why and what do to about it. With scripting, it could also become a more fun experience too.


However, I have intended to make race levels for a long time with my ideals, but I've been holding off for so long waiting for race mode to be improved (I hate playing it in treasure). Particularly that I want every player to start well spaced and not always end the moment the first player wins.