New Jazz 3 demos

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Hello!

I'm relatively new to the community, though I used to play and go by a different name long ago.

But, I have big things to contribute here. Two previously not released Jazz 3 betas/alphas plus some background material.

I think by this point the community should have access to this combined with previous stuff.

What's playable is a version of Jazz 3d running under Unreal version 224 with two different set of system files (in different stages of developement), same with maps,
you need to swap them, most preferably with a custom config file or a separate system directory to boot. (be sure to change the paths to reflect that if you decide to do so).

And then there's another version on engine 400, but very similar to the one that leaked.

There are different versions of the village map, some of which have the map having carrot houses and such and at least two previously unseen levels. (Pyramidus anyone?)

So...are you ready for this?

[Jelly Jam]

You got my attention.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

A link to the directory:
(link removed -Stijn)

It's my only current hosting refugee, so there you go.

The "Jazz Jackrabbit 3" archive is the known beta.
The others are original content except for "Jazz3fix", "Fix224jazzmaps", "FixCalypsoJazz" which are my fixes of maps from the three versions and
"Maps400hub" and "MapsHub224" which are tests for how much the hub system will work on the Jazz versions.
With version 400 it doesn't work, but 224 works, to a degree, it works the same way as in original Unreal except original Unreal's hub system was much more simpler and it was cut from the game maps anyway.
So, when popping back from one map to another in a row twice without pushing, it will load the previous map, as Unreal didn't keep track of slots properly for individual maps which was a fatal error but as I said originally Unreal had a simple hub system.

However you can see an example by blasting rocks before the tutorial level and then going to it and back to see the rocks are still gone...

So that's it.

This was actually found by "accident" on some old CDs from the devs.

[Stijn]

While I think this is very interesting news, unfortunately we cannot allow links to intellectual property that is not available under a free license on these forums.

I'm sure many people would be interested in discussing the content of these files here, and that's allowed (as long as you don't replicate them); but sharing the files themselves (or giving instructions to similar effect) is not.

[Stijn]

That said, I'd be interested in hearing more about how this got out (especially 18 years later!) - were you involved with the game's development?

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

No, but I happen to know a lot of people in the industry, or former, that happened to work on games like these.

I did tell the guy I'd be sharing it, too. That I think it's too good to be kept lying dust on it, especially if those CDs survived all those years.

I am involved with some game restoration projects myself, and while Jazz 3 isn't on my list, while I was busy restoring another game, this was suddenly found out of nowhere.

My main project is Unreal PSX rework, Rise of Jrath (yes, it's been taking ages but I lead a difficult life with deliberating ilness on top of it and trying to make the best out of it)

I'll post this on another forum then, if this is really a problem (I wouldn't think it would be given that I happen to have contacts and that so many years have passed, and especially seems strange if a patch for the game is avaiable through this website yet the game, even if unfinished and just a demo, is forbidden to link to).

[Stijn]

I appreciate that it is a bit vague - we've decided to draw the line at patches, for which you'd still need the original to run them. Similarly, JJ2+ technically violates JJ2's EULA, but Epic is okay with that being distributed.

I certainly agree that it's worth sharing, though, so thank you for posting about this here. Is the person that gave you permission to do so one of JJ3's developers? That'd imply that it would at least be okay to distribute the design documents, et cetera, which don't contain engine code. I've sent a message to the original developers myself to check whether they'd be okay with linking those, since they're probably the biggest find in this release and really interesting to read.

[Violet CLM]

It's worth emphasizing that J2O has never allowed the linking of the previously leaked version(s?) of the JJ3 demo. Everything in the <a href="https://www.jazz2online.com/j3f/">Jazz Jackrabbit 3D FAQ</a> is information or images that were intentionally released by the developers.

[luke11685]

I was reading on Wikipedia that Epic Games cancelled Unreal 1 Nintendo 64 port back in late 90's.
It is written here https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT_Interactive as for far as I know I didn't hear before about unreal 1 psone port being cancelled before.So was it cancelled port too?

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Well, there was just one version leaked and now there would be two. Honestly I find the 224 jazz content very interesting and it shouldn't be dismissed. It certainly would help greatly with putting together a remake or mod, it helps understanding what the game was truly about.

I've talked with just one of the jazz3 developers but one that I consider important. I don't have current contacts for the rest either way.

You going ahead and sending those messages might send off some unnecesary signals, why didn't you wait for more information?

Either way, to answer luke...yes of course. It's been known for a while.

You can't always rely on wikipedia as it's constantly updated/presented that side of the story etc etc.

There's tons of information wrong, for example someone known as LGR put up a video in which he mentions both the N64DD version and PS1 version as if they were developed by the same guys.

No it wasn't. The Playstation version was done by Pterodactyl, also known as Aardvark previously. They made the Duke Nukem 3d port PSX and that X-Files game...

The N64 DD port was indeed DMA but not the same DMA that was responsible for all those GTA games.

Again a different branch, but had something to do with the Hired Guns (2) game.

It wasn't also a plain cartridge port like some people think and it would have been next to impossible on N64.

The DD really offered an opportunity to have Unreal there, but the sole reason the port failed was because N64DD was released late and only in Japan, but it was such a decent "thing", shame that it didn't take off and only games that ended up being released for it were largely crap.

[Stijn]

Please check your e-mail, and let's continue this discussion there.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Video by yrex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqk6BdrYtYI

[luke11685]

Video by yrex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqk6BdrYtYI
Is that your gameplay?

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Is that your gameplay?
No. It's not. It's his video.

[luke11685]

So to play this older demo I need at least older patch for Classic Unreal or Unreal Gold?

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Not strictly as it's not dependand on UnrealI and UnrealShare as such, but for the mod version that would be the case, except that's not there as such, you can just run it without anything, the way you see it in the video it doesn't need that. Technically you could even run it on anything else that runs 224 engine version or something compatible. Unreal Return to Na Pali also was standalone game on version 224 and it will probably work too if files are copied over. I don't know if any other standalone release other than Unreal could do it.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I did want to point out one thing that wasn't obvious in the video.

In that version of the game, if you use the missiles as firecell ammo with the "grenadelauncher", they look just fine and aren't rotated weirdly like in the well known demo.

[luke11685]

Is it illegal if someone will upload for example models and textures on models-resource.com and textures-resource.com for example from this demo or older versions?

[Primpy]

Is it illegal if someone will upload for example models and textures on models-resource.com and textures-resource.com for example from this demo or older versions?

Yes, very illegal.

[luke11685]

Well now I shouldn't mention this game here because it's not now only related to Jazz Jackrabbit 3(it's cancelled),but is uploading game assets from Sonic X-Treme(it's cancelled) also very illegal?It seems it depends on(companies/corporations)Sega permission(speaking of Sonic X-Treme)and Epic Games permission.I really shouldn't mention Sonic X-Treme.I'm sorry if I mentioned one of cancelled Sonic games.

[Stijn]

Is it illegal if someone will upload for example models and textures on models-resource.com and textures-resource.com for example from this demo or older versions?

I don't know what the policies of those sites are and what laws they want to conform to. You'd have to check with them.

[luke11685]

I don't know what the policies of those sites are and what laws they want to conform to. You'd have to check with them.
But how?I found these documents http://www.sega.com/Terms-and-Conditions and https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-01-04-epic-clampdown-on-real-world-guns-and-copyright-infringing-game-assets I also found this https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/fan-art-policy?lang=en-US so I guess I also can't upload recreated(replica)of newly fresh remade game texture assets to Unreal Engine 4 Marketplace because I guess it will removed from Unreal Engine 4 Marketplace probably due to copyright infridgement,am I right?

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Dude, you really seem confused.....

What is especially the case with Epic is that they don't allow specificaly to use content from their Unreal games, to name example, outside of their Unreal games, but using/porting the content across all the Unreal universe games they allowed.

Thus similar thing probably happens with Jazz.

You keep also apologizing for casually mentioning some other game, I'm not sure if that's really against the rules here.

But uploading on models resource and such, even if it wasn't illegal it just isn't the cool thing to do since the guys who worked on the project meant to make money from it at some point.

Thus it would be best if the models as such remained under use strictly for the games or perhaps for a direct port to the newer unreal engine, but outside of that? That's wrong.

Just plain wrong.

[luke11685]

Dude, you really seem confused.....

What is especially the case with Epic is that they don't allow specificaly to use content from their Unreal games, to name example, outside of their Unreal games, but using/porting the content across all the Unreal universe games they allowed.

Thus similar thing probably happens with Jazz.

You keep also apologizing for casually mentioning some other game, I'm not sure if that's really against the rules here.

But uploading on models resource and such, even if it wasn't illegal it just isn't the cool thing to do since the guys who worked on the project meant to make money from it at some point.

Thus it would be best if the models as such remained under use strictly for the games or perhaps for a direct port to the newer unreal engine, but outside of that? That's wrong.

Just plain wrong.
Well it's next game I want to mention that is not related to Jazz Jackrabbit.It's Epic Games's indie game named Paragon that models was uploaded to Unreal Engine 4 Marketplace in Epic Games Launcher.Do you think in late 90's could be possible making some library of game assets something just like in Unity named Unity Asset Store in that case Epic's Epic Games Launcher?Back then technology of 3d modelling was very limited.I'm really sorry perhaps it's against rules to talk here about innovations of gathering contents of game assets such as textures,sounds,music and models.This could be fine if Epic Games Launcher might exist much earlier when Epic Games was making Unreal 1 or Unreal Gold even since Unreal from 1995.Honestly I think Epic Games in 1998 should make Jazz Jackrabbit 2 in 3D just like Ubisoft did with Rayman 2.Once again I'm sorry if I mentioned 3 games not related to Jazz Jackrabbit.Anyway making game in 3d it takes more time than making game in 2d.

[Stijn]

What on earth does this have to do with Jazz Jackrabbit 3? Why are you discussing this here

[luke11685]

What on earth does this have to do with Jazz Jackrabbit 3? Why are you discussing this here
Where should I?If you want I can stop talking about it.

[Primpy]

Where should I?If you want I can stop talking about it.

If you could move this discussion away from Jazz Community Forums, that would be great.

[luke11685]

Okay sorry.

[ionut00]

How download this ?

[luke11685]

How download this ?
Just go to beta archives website.I can't give you a download link no one can do it even me so sorry.

[umisery]

Thanks for the info Leo!

[Love & Thunder]

Hey, I only just saw this. I was wondering if someone familiar with these new files(Perhaps Leo? I presume Leo would be most familiar) could walk me through exactly what everything is, what it does, etc... Basically, wondering if we can get a sort of low-down on what exactly we're looking at here.


'Cause, I'm looking at the files now, and it seems like a whole ton of things; at least four different sets of full copies of the game from different periods of development, some design docs, etc... A lot can be inferred from the dates, what's in the files, etc., but I was wondering if we could get a full explanation of what this all is. :)

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Well, I don't know honestly if I can do that, but I'll do my best to answer any specific questions and if necessary check with the source.

Is that okay? So...what would you want to ask about?

I pretty much get what is what there in general, much more than with jazz 2 beta and whatnot.

[Love & Thunder]

Well, I don't know honestly if I can do that, but I'll do my best to answer any specific questions and if necessary check with the source.

Is that okay? So...what would you want to ask about?

I pretty much get what is what there in general, much more than with jazz 2 beta and whatnot.
Well, if you're okay to answer a few questions, I do have a few... :)

First, the easiest thing -- so this stuff consists of a much earlier build from development, a much later build, the commonly-available leak, and some design docs, correct?

Who or what is "Calypso"? And how exactly does that relate to the 400 build of Jazz 3 included in this set of files?

Do we know exactly what the difference is between the 400 Calypso build and the original leaked version is?
I ask because they appear to be the same build according to their log files, etc.(Which report version 400 in both), but they have rather different EXEs, and contain different levels, though the "Date modified" info on the files appears to show that the 400 Calypso build's files were last modified almost universally on the same date as the original leak's files, but two hours earlier(With some exceptions).

Is this all there was/is, in terms of Jazz 3 stuff?

Where exactly did this stuff come from?

I do have one additional question, but it's something only the source would really be able to answer, so I will totally understand if you can't get me an answer for this... As I understand it, based on what you said earlier in this thread, the source worked on the game in some capacity, and if that's the case, I'd like to ask this person if any progress was made on the apparently-planned PlayStation 2 version of Jazz 3, to their knowledge? I imagine this won't be the case, but if there was any work done, especially if it resulted in any builds or tests at all, I'd be really interested to hear about it.

Thank you very much for agreeing to hear my questions. Don't sweat it if you can't answer some of these, I'll be grateful for any and all answers you can give. :)

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I can answer most if not all of it actually, because I was more invested/interested in this and unlike the jazz 2 beta I talked to the source often here.

While with the Jazz 2 Beta I have not talked to the source at all, it was all Bryan doing the talking. Just sometimes he forwarded my questions.

Okay, so your question what this consists of, that is partially correct, however the old beta build has two swappable set of files so it basically consists of two
builds in practice...

I have constructed my tree with different system and map directories for the swap versions...

Unreal Engine does allow that kind of thing by modifying the config files to look for different paths.

However your assumption about the common Jazz 3 leak is incorrect, I included it within my tree so there's the complete catalogue.

This was not provided as such by the source.

Next, don't look at the engine numbers here. This is a crucial mistake, as this is not a game with its own engine.

This means that Jazz 3 was at those stages developed primarily (with different dev cycles) on two Unreal Engine versions only.

Version 224 and later, 400. The 400 Calypso one is thus a different worked-on version than the common leak.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

As for what is Calypso, I think that was just a nickname of one of the developers.
This all came from some forgotten backups.

As for the last question I'll make it short. There wasn't any work done on that, but everything would depend of course how Epic were going through with the PS2 UT and what not.
Of course later that was already released so I suppose it would be trivial to just port the finished Jazz 3 stuff on PS2, or perhaps even the engine of the PC release would have been upped to match the engine version of the PS2 engine...

[Love & Thunder]

Okay, so your question what this consists of, that is partially correct, however the old beta build has two swappable set of files so it basically consists of two
builds in practice...
Oh really?! :O
How do I do that? I have only seen the default version when you run unreal.exe from the System folder of the 224 build. I'd assumed there had just been some minor mistakes, and that all we had were the three builds(224, 400 Calypso, and original leak), but there are two 224 builds? :D

I have constructed my tree with different system and map directories for the swap versions...

Unreal Engine does allow that kind of thing by modifying the config files to look for different paths.
So it's possible to swap to the second version included in the 224 build by changing the config files... I'm a bit clueless about Unreal, so could you walk me through this a little? :)

However your assumption about the common Jazz 3 leak is incorrect, I included it within my tree so there's the complete catalogue.
This was not provided as such by the source.
Right, so you mean that I'm right about all this stuff collectively being all there is, but that the original leak is only present because you put it in there?

Next, don't look at the engine numbers here. This is a crucial mistake, as this is not a game with its own engine.

This means that Jazz 3 was at those stages developed primarily (with different dev cycles) on two Unreal Engine versions only.

Version 224 and later, 400. The 400 Calypso one is thus a different worked-on version than the common leak.
I see. So 224 and 400 are, as assumed, an earlier and a later version of the game, however 224 and 400 refer to the versions of the Unreal engine they were using, rather than the version of the game...
So, since the original leak claims to be version 400, presumably it was the same line of development as the Calypso 400 version, but this build was done at a different time? Given the different EXEs, maps, and the original leak not containing a ton of folders the Calypso build does, I would assume they were at least somewhat different. Given the fact the original leak most likely came from a playtester, and this version came from a developer, it would make sense that they'd be at least somewhat different... I'm just wondering how different, and in which direction the difference goes...

I'd presumed the order was 224 first, then 400 Calypso, then the original leak... Would you say that's likely the correct order, or was 400 Calypso a later build than the original leak?
And how does the other build in the 224 files fit in with this all?

As for what is Calypso, I think that was just a nickname of one of the developers.
This all came from some forgotten backups.
Thought that might be the case.
The one thing this does leave in my head is the wonder of whether there are more backups which could turn up... ;)

As for the last question I'll make it short. There wasn't any work done on that, but everything would depend of course how Epic were going through with the PS2 UT and what not.
Of course later that was already released so I suppose it would be trivial to just port the finished Jazz 3 stuff on PS2, or perhaps even the engine of the PC release would have been upped to match the engine version of the PS2 engine...
I see. Thanks. :)

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I don't have time to actually quote you now, so I make it a little more point by point. I have to go to sleep now.

Either way, what you should do is make a copy of the maps and system trees, call them like mapsold and systemold, then edit the ini files meaning Unreal.ini or you can make a custom ini but you'd have to specify that with -ini, let's just make it simpler for you then.

Just in the new directory change Unreal.ini paths in the Core.System section into SystemOld and MapsOld instead of plain System and Maps.

Then in systemold and mapsold you just extract those archives that were there like maps and system and let it overwrite the files it has conflict with.

Well, that's basically it. It's so simple and yet most mods or tcs out there for unreal etc don't even do this.

And now for the other questions.

Yes I provided all the original new archives plus the old leak plus fixes/tests made by me, all in sepearate archives of course.

The chronology goes like:
zipped 224 compatible files - plain 224 jazz 3d - 400 calypso - the known leak

So the known leak is the latest there was. And there isn't that much difference indeed between 400 calypso plain and the leak...

As for you wondering, I can assure you that there is little to no chance of anything more turning up from the same source(s), but of course I haven't spoken to most people who worked on Jazz 3d even, so who knows.

If you find some, try to reach out and ask.