What do you use /quirks for?

[Violet CLM]

Enables/disables Quirks Mode. When disabled (default), it becomes harder to get stuck in ceilings, it's possible to morph to Lori by physically destroying a morph box, destroying a morph box with a special move morphs you once instead of twice, getting hurt while on an H-Pole event doesn't get you stuck in the floor, and Wind and Belt events can't get you stuck against walls. Turning Quirks Mode on temporarily reenables all those old bugs
Right now /quirks is a hodgepodge of settings that we tend to think of as only mattering for test levels. A few old non-test levels (particularly BlurredD's Survivor pack) make use of the "get stuck in ceilings" part to test whether players are Spaz, but there are scripted solutions for that which are more reliable and are easier on the player. And because /quirks is something you turn on in response to specific things in the current level, it seems likely that when one person wants /quirks to be on, other players probably want it too.

Therefore, there is a strong temptation to

Make /quirks a server setting, rather than a client setting, along the same lines as /allowwalljump: all players in the server either do or don't have these weird physics differences available to them, depending on what the host (or remote admins) decide.
Specifically, this server setting would not be named /quirks anymore but would instead be a new "Test" gamemode that would, at minimum, also prevent players from colliding with one another. Currently the solution to this is to host in a CTF-based gamemode but disable all but one team, so all players are on the same team; however, this has the unfortunate side effect of disabling colored names. A dedicated Test gamemode would get around this problem.
Additionally, apply all those same physics changes to the eventual speedrun mode.

In summary, getting stuck in the ceiling as Spaz (and the other weird stuff) would be possible in a server hosting the Test gamemode, or in a local Speedrun game, but in no other contexts.

Are there reasons I'm not thinking of that this would be a bad idea? Let me know!

[ShakerNL]

I think it would be great to finally get rid of the blue names in test servers. Also, tests have been hosting on teambattle mode for a while now with the reason to prevent people from cycling by using the flags, instead of the commands that the test manager mutator provides.

[master sven]

Isnt walljumping part of quirks as well?

[Violet CLM]

No, /allowwalljump is a separate command because its use patterns are thought to be different. I'm not proposing merging the two at this time.

[FawFul]

Request to make the /allowwalljump accessible through the jj2 windowed mode, similar to other SP options like quirks.

Also request to add the "sidekick bosses" back to quirks.

And maybe quirks could be renamed to vanilla mode. I feel like the word doesn't really give a new player any idea as to what it does or intends to do. Open to other ideas too.

[Violet CLM]

So to be clear, you are against the proposals outlined in the original post?

[kn0b010ck5m0th]

So the point of changing quirks mode into a server-side command would be to streamline the process of implementing formal game modes for tests and speedruns?
As far as I'm concerned, the impact of such a change would be intangible and unsubstantial.
I'm going to recommend against it, if only because in general it's a bad idea for plus team to make extra efforts to satisfy an unlimited string of meaningless requests.
It makes me question whether you're doing this for you or you're doing this for them.
But then again, maybe I just don't see where you're going with this.
Anyway, since you asked for an opinion, my opinion is that you're trying to do the most by following up on every insignificant request.
Focus on doing something meaningful instead of constantly trying to improve upon plus and whatnot.
To me it's fairly evident that the plus playerbase is taking advantage of plus team ? and in general anyone who can script or code ? by making unrealistic requests for what they want to get done, but they can't do for themselves because they don't know how.
Honestly just don't cave in to naggers, I don't care about this proposed change to plus, but the amount of nagging directed at plus team and company is an obscene disgrace.
I'm neither for nor against the idea for a new mod, but you're making it so that the playerbase of plus is much more spoiled than they ought to be.

[FawFul]

So to be clear, you are against the proposals outlined in the original post?

There's a lot of proposals to uncover in the original post. Some I agree with, some I disagree with, some I partially agree with and i'll try to explain in detail how I would tweak the design a little. I think first it's good to understand there's roughly two groups of players that use quirks. SP/Co-op players and test players. I think combining everything into one and slapping just 'test' or 'vanilla' onto them is going to add confusion.

I'm more in favour of introducing two settings, each for their original purpose: /vanilla, or /oldphysics or /standardjj2. (name can be maybe polled later) for what I assume to be the same as speedrunmode to reintroduce all the original behaviours and from vanilla jj2. I think /test is mainly to introduce a neutral team that can pass through others, maybe with a better win condition at the end than flags and maybe some kind of level/timer from the test manager. I'm in favour of seeing /test similar to how /plusonly and /latestversiononly interact, whereas /test gives a "you can only run /test if you enable /vanillamode first'" checkbox. This gives gives /test the oppurtunity to expand to test manager settings and guides, and makes it very clear that /vanillamode is just that, for original settings. I don't assume every player knows what all quirks are, but the intention is clear.

I'm in favour of seeing /test similar to how /plusonly and /latestversiononly behave, whereas /test gives a "you can only run /test if you enable /vanillamode first'" check. This gives gives /test the oppurtunity to expand to test manager settings and guides, but also keeps /vanillamode to just a clear intention for original settings. I don't assume every player knows what all quirks are, but the intention is clear. I would like to see /test as a server setting only, and /vanillamode for both SP and as a server setting, similar to /allowmouseaim, but instead defaults to true. (so you can always change your mode clientside and in SP and the server can disallow it to always be on or off, whatever the server decides).

[FabiAN[NC]]

i use /quirks on always for tests or speciality for any wallclimp levels
but i have to say:
i really prefer wallclimp on vanilla jazz2.exe !
i also made a little example wallclimp level, and found out here, if i do very high (jumps + wallclimps)
this is kinda hard on plus
because on plus, to do a wallclimp: it seems it works kinda different
(its more easy to get into a wall while do the quirk )
and for higher walls more difficult than bevore
but this is not the way how it should works.
its just different than bevor.

.
I agree with faws idea, that we should use on tests a command to bring back all the vanilla physics
so that wallclimp works the way it should be
.
.
and then the other thing is:
i somehow prefer playing tests on the treasure gamemode
i know.. you can hit here players, and annoying them, but somehow it makes me lots of fun to play it in treasure here :))
but..
im sure that i am here alone: to prefer playing tests on the gamemode treasure ;)

[cooba]

Make /quirks a server setting, rather than a client setting, along the same lines as /allowwalljump: all players in the server either do or don't have these weird physics differences available to them, depending on what the host (or remote admins) decide.This is sensible, and I fully support this.
Specifically, this server setting would not be named /quirks anymore but would instead be a new "Test" gamemode that would, at minimum, also prevent players from colliding with one another.Would this mean that playing BlurredD's Survivor "the old way" would require using this gamemode?

I realise "there are scripted solutions for that which are more reliable and are easier on the player" but what happens in the case if I don't want them.

[FabiAN[NC]]

in a different thread, i was telling from one of my ideas (that would help)
, now i would like to share my idea with the community, it also fit into this discussion
.

Would this mean that playing BlurredD's Survivor "the old way" would require using this gamemode?
I realise "there are scripted solutions for that which are more reliable and are easier on the player"

but what happens in the case if I don't want them.
.
=
last time i had become a great idea:
how about if we add to plus.ini
on [Server] <- a few new Lines
that auto turns on a mutator when a specific gamemode get hosted
plus.ini
[Server]
..
AntiRadarSpectateHealth=False
AllowWalljump=True
CoopDefaultMutator = cooperativefix.mut
BattleDefaultMutator = ..............mut
TreasureDefaultMutator = ..............mut
CTFDefaultMutator = ..............mut
GroundForceDefaultMutator = gfv.mut
TestDefaultMutator = ............mut
..
..

=
anyway, i really would like that idea
so we also could use this for any other gamemodes
later it would works like this:
so if someone host a own server
and if he have in his plus.ini
a line like:
CoopDefaultMutator = cooperativefix.mut
and if he select later (inside of the game)
/gamemode coop
or in the "server setup menu", if he select here coop
then it always take the "default script", that he can find inside of plus.ini
.
i really would like that idea a lot. to give the people more freedom back
and to work on there own cooperativefix, and maybe for othergamemodes, this would be usefull
to give the people here more freedom here
im absolutly sure, the one or other also would like it to build a fix for a gamemode
i think it would be also good, if a few people would like to play survivor (the old way)
then they would have the freedom to deside, about the mutator that is running on this gamemode
.
question:
;495789']
such a huge change that make the gamemode completly different than bevore, should have the place inside of a script/mutator, and not inside of a new plus update

Answer:

I completely disagree with this. The point of JJ2+ is to make the game better, not to make it worse or to leave it alone.
=
i make a example: if the gamemode treasure, also get chainged and would be different than bevore
and a few people would like to play survivor (the old way)
or tests (the old way), the old classic way, in treasure
if the gamemode treasure would works completly different than bevore,
=
then this people would get forced to use older plus versions or a vanilla jazz2!
.

[Violet CLM]

None of that post seems connected to /quirks... please understand that the reason we want one subject of conversation per thread is not to discourage conversation, but to make conversation easy to find. We want--even need--people to reply to other threads, indicating they're interested in those feature requests or bug reports. But for that to be possible, people need to be confident that conversation about a given topic is only happening in the thread with the subject matching that conversation. We don't want people to have to go wandering through every single seemingly unrelated thread.