Which F9 list do you prefer?

[ShakerNL]

Every day I see discussions about the changers in the F9 list on Discord. Some ask what the new symbols mean, some report bugs - such as player names staying red after a cycle and skull-icon not always visible when player is out.

I made this topic on the JCF, so that it doesn't go unnoticed by developers who are absent from Discord groups.

.::Choose your preferred F9 list::.

Old F9 list
https://pukenukem.com/puke/images/old_F9_list.png

New F9 list
https://pukenukem.com/puke/images/new_F9_list.png

Please only vote if you have played online at least twice in the past year.

[Violet CLM]

some report bugs - such as player names staying red after a cycle and skull-icon not always visible when player is out
Thanks, these bugs have not been reported, so I've created threads for them so people can try to identify details.

This poll is well-intentioned but I caution that the results are going to be very blurry. Just guessing at a number, there are probably about a dozen different changes between the two list styles. If you like six of them and are less excited about the other six, how are you supposed to vote? It's the same problem as this poll which asks a single question about three separate settings.

[master sven]

I think for most people (at least for me) its mainly that the flag icon has been moved to the other side. People were used to looking right of a name for many years, now they have to look left. Also, the playerlist has been moved more to the center, causing it to be more of a hinderance. The new icons dont really improve our experience so we are perfectly fine without them.

[FawFul]

I think for most people (at least for me) its mainly that the flag icon has been moved to the other side. People were used to looking right of a name for many years, now they have to look left. Also, the playerlist has been moved more to the center, causing it to be more of a hinderance. The new icons dont really improve our experience so we are perfectly fine without them.

The icon in the player list can be moved to the right of players in plus settings. Do you mean this?

Good point on the position of the player list being more of a hinderance.

I'm missing a 3rd option: improve new player list. Some changes have been welcomed, such as removing the S icon, removing the scores of spectators, changing plusicons into minus icons, and greying out the ms for spectators.

Some other things are still open for discussion and change. Nothing stops it from reverting some changes. That discussion is happening on GitHub but should probably move to JCF for a broader view.

This poll however is very black and white, and I definitely don't want to back to spectator icons and k/d, because they are pointless features.

[Superjazz]

I agree with Faw here. I think progress has been made towards a more optimized player list, but it could be even further optimized. I'm thinking of having the ability to toggle between a new style and a more classic style player list, if there is a significant demand to revive the classic style list at least to some degree (just to note that this is already partially possible with the "Icons left of names"-option that can be also found from the Plus-menu). That said, I'm not personally up for a full revert of the player list style.

[t3Kev]

i agree, if ppl want the old player list back it would be important to differentiate what features of the old list they want back or what bothers them with the new list.

to a completely new player, the old symbols of S and A can be as confusing for new players as the current admin symbol. also if players ask what the symbols mean and they receive an answer, the questions should be solved sooner or later.

bugs are an issue but if they can get fixed it's not an argument to go back completely.

the feature of flag symbol being at the left side of nickname is toggleable, problem solved.

whether the playerlist should be in the center or a bit on the side can be debatable. ig it depends on where u want screen to be occupied.


either way, going back to the old list COMPLETELY would be a bad move. instead, the single features should be modified if many players dislike the new one. like position of the player list or the symbols being used for example. but why on earth revert the removal of spectator stats and S and A symbol? the removal of them is a good thing bcs they occupied screen for no good reason.

[ShakerNL]

Seriously, I don't see why the F9 list needed to be drastically changed. And I've seen the excuse with "newbies not understanding the symbols and letters" too many times now. This is simply not true. In fact, the current F9 list caused much more confusion to players, not even newbies. Personally I find the new admin symbol hideous looking and plain confusing. It looks like some keychain and doesn't resemblance anything that says "this user has admin privileges". The old green "A" could at least give you a hint in that direction.

I agree that the yellow "S" symbol for spectators is not needed since spectators' names are greyed out anyway. And the fact that the flag symbol can be moved is also okay, I guess. Though, I think that we shouldn't have too many more settings added to the game.

About the name spacing for long names, that's just a terrible solution to a user created problem. Blur finally got rid of the spacing that people used to clutter the F9 list with. Please let's keep it that way. If you want to have a neat looking F9 list, maybe there could be a character limit in player names.

[Violet CLM]

More detailed poll here (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdhr_dm2D7YJGdFOkUq5frkWnh1l7kV7uDFpcwGLS7t BnwyAg/viewform)
This goes through every separate, individual list design change that I could think of. If I forgot something anyway, clearly it wasn't for lack of trying!

This poll is well-intentioned but I caution that the results are going to be very blurry. Just guessing at a number, there are probably about a dozen different changes between the two list styles.
Haha, no, more than two dozen actually!

[master sven]

Let it be said that the intention of this poll was not to point out what was wrong but rather whether people want to revert or not. Figuring out what it is specifically is always useful and should be done pre-release imo.

Also the option that allows the flag to move back to the right of a players name seems to reset every time you restart the game...

[Violet CLM]

Figuring out what it is specifically is always useful and should be done pre-release imo.Again, this did happen. There was a very detailed discussion, right here in this very forum, lasting over a month, about most of these things.
Also the option that allows the flag to move back to the right of a players name seems to reset every time you restart the game...
Yes, that is how all JJ2+ options have always worked. If you want to save a setting, you can edit plus.ini or use the /savesettings command.

[master sven]

I detect a very defensive attitude. The state of the matter remains that many functions are debatable, whilst some are clearly opposed by most of the community.

1. Yes we agree that this poll was not intended for finding specifics, rather for reverting to the old playerlist, specific bugs could still be located in the aftermath though. (I recommend looking at my entry for the new poll)

2. As can be clearly seen from who voted here, the current active community is largely not represent on this forum and never has been for over 10 years. The only way proper testing can occur and the risk of reverting can be minimized is to reach out to them. Probably the best place for it is the jj2 multiplayer discord. We could talk to a7med to arrange allocation of a proper channel and format.

3. We see that while there is the option to revert to a more similar form of flagholder display, we acknowledge that the fact that this resets and requires one to go and adjust files, raises demand for reverting. As many active players have said: why fix something that wasnt broken.

These are some of the things you could have learned. I hope to see you on our discord soon, with an open mind. Many active players arent going to (re-) make an account here, just as you havent been willing to move to a more suitable platform. Now is the chance to demonstrate the right example. If not, I foresee more reverting in the future.