Is this community under a Dictatorship??

[Hellraiser]

A thought just came to me.... JJ2 is running under a dictatorship!!! Some people are "in charge" but have appointed themselves as the boss. for example: what puts Fquist, Derby, iCeD, and some others on a higher rank than the rest of us??


<b>But I have a good idea to fix this</b> we should have an election, to determine who the community's leader is. we should nominate people (responsible people such as our "dictators"), then vote.

the winner woud then take the duties of the leader, as the leaders of countries do.

just a thought.....

[purplesheep]

uh...what leader? there's no "leader" of the community as a whole. there is no leader, there is no ms.zarves. (man i love "wayside school" books)

jb!

[FireSworD]

There is no "dictatorship" the Admins and Mods are here to make this enviornment comfortable for us to visit and have a good time.

[SteelTalon]

Originally posted by Hellraiser
A thought just came to me.... JJ2 is running under a dictatorship!!! Some people are "in charge" but have appointed themselves as the boss. for example: what puts Fquist, Derby, iCeD, and some others on a higher rank than the rest of us??

Because they've been nice enough to run these sites and other services for us and are just generally cool people. =P

BTW this should be in Misc. or JCF help or somehthing to that extent.

[Hellraiser]

I thank them for running the sites, but I mean that they're starting to boss us around.

[RosetaJOL]

Agrees with Hellraiser.

[Link]

I don't really think they are bossing us around. If they weren't here, then this would turn into a horrible message board with tons of spam and warez and all sorts of bad stuff.

But sometimes it seems like they do admin stuff because they are bored...like moving a topic that is only slightly off topic or saying people are personal attacking when they are really only joking...but that only happens a little bit, and most of the time the admins and moderators are great!

[Derby]

"POST THIS IN THE MISCELLANEOUS FORUM AND NOT THE GENERAL JAZZ 2 TALK FORUM! HOW COULD YOU FORGET?! YOU POSTED IN THE WRONG FORUM! HOW DARE YOU! YOU COULDN'T HAVE POSSIBLY DONE SUCH A THING! YOU'RE BANNED!"

No, but really, I would not like to see this turn into an Early Childhood-geared community, or a teen-geared community, since the game was specifically rated "E", and it really should remain that way; the game was meant for play, and not for shouting out swears and personally attacking others. That's how it should remain in the community, as well. No one's controlling your actions. Heck, who's to download your brilliant (and not-so-brilliant) levels, tilesets, and utilities? Better yet, who's to even communicate in the community? Rather, you should be happier to find such a convenience than not where you're stuck between the transition from UJ to J2O. Of course, if you weren't around at the time, you wouldn't know. ;-P

[VelKa]

Yes, I suggest that you stop complaining. I will probably sound like an admin here, but I hope I make my point clear.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that the admins are fascists, dictators, etc.. Would you be happy if someone flamed you mercilessly and there was no one to stop that person? We need people to lead us; without the admins there <b>would be no one to run, maintain, or moderate</b> this board.

If you have a problem with the admins/mods: 1) <b>You are not following the rules.</b> If you follow rules there should <b>be no problems</b> 2) perhaps the admins are "corrupt" as SlaYer was, 3) maybe you're exaggerating? that happens a lot

If you cannot abide by the rules and show everyone respect, I don't suggest that you post on this board. Thank you.

[iCeD]

I don't even know why I was listed there.. my status wasn't "Administrator" last I looked.

[VelKa]

why do we have to mention names in the first place? :confused:

For your information, iCeD is NOT an admin.

I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war lol

[VelKa]

Another thing: this is a community, not a country. learn the difference, please.

I shall now melt into the background and say nothing more.

---Agent Megumi

[FireSworD]

Originally posted by iCeD
I don't even know why I was listed there.. my status wasn't "Administrator" last I looked.

He's an admin on J2O (i think).

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

Control is always needed.

<b>I'd also like to ask you, who is paying for this stuff? Who has coded the sites so they work? Who updates it?</b>

Election is pointless and impossible. Just because people are elected doesn't mean they know how to do anything or would. People that run the board generally have something to do with the people that pay for the board or the server and those who they have choosen to help. If you wish to have elections and what not buy your own server and set up your own site.

[Monolith]

Yes, this community is headed by a few higer powers. If the community started paying to keep the services running (like taxes) then it might turn into some sort of democracy, but that's very unlikely to happen.
Don't worry. The people in charge (especially thusfar in JJ2 history) are here to try and make the community better. It's not like their profiting from all puny jazzer's lives ;)

[Newspaz]

I agree with most of the people here. You guys who do not agree with me do not know that it takes time to have a good site. It's not something you do in three days. And I am sure, if some *other* people on this board were running it (than FQuist, Bob, etc) would die in a few months.

[Haze]

So let's all give a big hand of applause to the ppl "in charge" for doing such a fine job! ;)

BTW, if you're not happy with ppl letting you onto THEIR websites/forums, make/use your own! :D

[Krezack]

And lets shutup and let them do their job properly instead of diverting their attention from more importent things.

[~SPLASH~]

Originally posted by Hellraiser
A thought just came to me.... JJ2 is running under a dictatorship!!! Some people are "in charge" but have appointed themselves as the boss. for example: what puts Fquist, Derby, iCeD, and some others on a higher rank than the rest of us??


<b>But I have a good idea to fix this</b> we should have an election, to determine who the community's leader is. we should nominate people (responsible people such as our "dictators"), then vote.

the winner woud then take the duties of the leader, as the leaders of countries do.

just a thought.....
no. actually, I think this whole communtiy is too democrated! On Jazz 2 Online, people can review other people's levels, but lately, it is full of favouritism. Let's take Disguise's SP pack as an example. (No offence to Disguise, he tried to create a decent pack and he did), it has a current score of 8.3, While the level isn't actually THAT good. The puzzles are great, but the eyecandy just...sucks...to get an 8.3. There are just too many people that rate other people's uploads way too high just because they are trying to become populair and to make friends with "the big guys".. I kinda "hate" people like that...sorry folks...(And no this has nothing to do with a certain S person that is jealous, for the record: I am not)

*sighs*

So no dictatorship.

[$tilettø]

is this Community under a DictatorShip"
Well Kinda There are Several People who Are Higher than the Rest of us But Control is needed.

[URJazzCC]

No, there is no Dictatorship on Jazz. And No, we shouldn't vote for a leader. Everything is great the way it is, there's just some people who are higher than us, but they need to be higher than us, we need them to set the rules, keep control. And they have prooved to us that they do belong where they are.

And in the case about rating levels with favoritism, well I see that with people like Ninja, how he rates like mine and Cracco's levels a little higher because we are his clan superiors. And also, btw, disguises level pack I do believe did deserve the rating I gave him, it was verey fun, I agree that it had a alck of eyecandy, but I don't think that eye candy makes up like 3 points, maybe 1 or 2. OOps, I've sorta gotten of topic hehehehe. Well anyways
No dictatorship here.

[Stijn]

Well, we aren't forced to come on this site. This site is created by people, and why they will let us lead it? It's their site, they created it, so let them lead it.
Splash is right, but it is hard to choose an objective rating, e.g. when some of your enemy's created a very cool level. I'm also not saying that I am a good reviewer (but I became better since my first review ever :)). So I don't think this is a dictatorship. And Hellraiser, the community isn't just J2O/JCF, the community is much more than J2O, but I have to agree that J2O is something like the community meeting place. Well, that were my two banana's on this topic.

[FQuist]

Originally posted by Hellraiser
[B]A thought just came to me.... JJ2 is running under a dictatorship!!! Some people are "in charge" but have appointed themselves as the boss. for example: what puts Fquist, Derby, iCeD, and some others on a higher rank than the rest of us??

First of all, we aren't community leaders but site leaders.

What puts us on a higher rank? The people. Most of the admins here have put hundreds of manhours into the community sites, like the JCF and J2O. The people come to these sites, use them. We made the sites they use. It's that simple.

Do you know how much lines of code J2O has? Thousands and more thousands of lines. All put together in our free time.(and then we're talking about hundreds of manhours). Bobby pays a lot of money to have these sites accessible to the public too.

We are not community leaders, as you can freely start your own site. But you don't, and choose to have us as site leaders by using our site(s).

<b>But I have a good idea to fix this</b> we should have an election, to determine who the community's leader is. we should nominate people (responsible people such as our "dictators"), then vote.

the winner woud then take the duties of the leader, as the leaders of countries do.
Alright, how would we do this? The people who get the most votes (everyone probably votes for his friends or clanleaders.. ) are going to run these sites made by dictators, using their money? These people are free to make their own sites if you ask me. I'm willing to go far for the community but not so far that I let other people use our work, probably without knowing if they will be able to handle the community(with all these baddies around it's hard to handle, you know)

Sorry for the kind of braggy tone of my post, but I am quite proud of my/our work sometimes.

Peace. :P

[$tilettø]

its only j20 jcf/
its only 1 site where the community comes
First it was Jmmb then jcf
We Could use Another Site

Bord/

[Captain Spam]

Good morning. You've awoken Spam. And this time, he's not playing nice. If you don't want a rude shock to the shammies, I suggest you leave.

The reason the admins in control are in control is because, frankly, they've done a spiffy job of keeping the place running all this time. They've dealt patiently with about five or six servers that have kicked 'em off, they've dealt with countless trolls trying to disrupt our fun, and most of all, they've done this without being jerks. There was no 'forcing' on their part; we listen to 'em because they know what they're doing and they do it well. If we didn't like it, we would have stopped whining about it and started our own community and see if anyone joins. And if nobody joins or we can't keep track of it, we'd realize that, hey, maybe these people know what they're doing.

But, getting back on track here, I'm going to tell you something that may shock you. It may make you run around like a bloody lunatic, screaming your head off that we're so unfair and so evil and wrong and unamerican and hate evil hate bad wrong evil wrong whine whine whine. Ready for this?

THIS BOARD IS A DICTATORSHIP.

Control of this board is solely in the hands of the owners of the board. THEY paid for the board with THEIR money, THEY paid for the webhosting with THEIR money, THEY worked their arses off fixing parts of the code of the board so it works right, THEY keep the place in top order, <b>why should THEY give control to someone else?</b> This is THEIR board. If they wanted to, they could just shut the whole thing down tomorrow and frankly, no amount of election is going to stop that. The board and webspace are their property, NOT the community's. The community and this specific board are two different entities. To summarize:

This board is NOT a democracy, there are no plans to MAKE it a democracy, and IT WILL NOT BE A DEMOCRACY.

This board is a DICTATORSHIP.

But it is a PROPERLY-RUN DICTATORSHIP.

Frankly, if you think you can do a better job, start your own board. You can hold as many elections as you want and let beuracracy clog up how it runs. But just remember, the VAST majority of the actual functional internet communities are all run in some dictatorship fashion. In the internet world, you need the speed and decisiveness of a dictatorship to make anything work on time. Can you imagine how long it'd take if every user had to vote on banning someone? Or if we needed to fix something? Things on this board need to happen on a NOW basis, not whenever the committee decides to hold the restructuring meeting to vote on when to plan to deal with the decision process.

We've dealt with this argument OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER in this community and in many others I visit, including many I have ultimately no administration over, and frankly, it's getting boring. Almost invariably, it's started by newbies whining because something happened to them or people simply out to cause trouble.

Bottom line?

If you don't like it, TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD! If you think you can do better, stop your whining and start your own board.

[Xeno_old]

If we had an election, the exact same people would be elected. The people that are admins and stuff have proven that they are trustworthy enough to hold the position. If you do not agree with this, then you got osme issues, cause these admins are some of the only people doing something to keep JJ2 alive.

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

Right on Cap!

[ShadowGPW]

GO CAPPY GO, GO CAPPY GO!!!!

you should run for president capt :P

[ghost]

he hellraizer if you don't like it get lost!!

[Violet CLM]

Slightly off topic, in response to a post I saw a while back....


Disguise's level pack was not bad, it was very good. The levels were great, and were so fun, that I did not notice an eyecandy problem one bit. It looked just fine to me, and I'm not sure why you think there's this huge lack of eyecandy.



Back on topic, I agree with everyone except Hellraiser and Roseta. (Anyone else? I forgot) These people do good for us, pay their own money for us, and whatever else practically everyone else said. I'm no good with words, ok?

[VelKa]

Thanks, Captain. You made your point clear :D

YaY, nice to see that you're still alive. =p

[$tilettø]

Dont Atack hhim man
Hes actully just asking Something

[FireSworD]

Cap, don't you think it was a little harsh?

[FQuist]

Ghost: this is not really a fight. :P

Fire Sword: I don't know. I for one get a bit tired(no offense to hellraiser, he was just wondering, I don't mind) that there are thousands of times the admins get accused of being dictators. I imagine Cap is too, and I think he made a great post, although it may indeed seem a bit harsh. Don't take it personally, Fire Sword. :)

Go Captain!

[Electric Ir]

Ghost: Lol.. just calm down. :)

FQuist: yeah.

Captain: Should I bring you a glass of water? You must be thirsty after such an talk. :)

Go cap.. You're absolutely right.:)

[Captain Spam]

Yeah, sorry if I came off as being a bit harshish. It's just that this topic comes up over and over again, and it just kinda gets on my nerves. The internet and the communities in it don't typically run by democracy.

[KRSplat]

Why do I feel that the world will end tomorrow?
----------------------------------------
Countries are dictatorships. Sort of. It is run by anywhere from 1 thousand to 1 billion dicators (which is technically impossible, but...). But the community is not a country. The community is not a dictatorship, and neither is Jazz 2. But Jazz 2 Online is, Jazz Community Forums, included. If you don't like it then leave. You can start another website or forum, but you can't change J2O/JCF unless you are given permission by the leaders of J2O/JCF, which could happen, but not if you try to force them to. As stated by the admins of the JMMB, if you don't want to become a mod/admin, then bug us about it. This is true for just about every community, as it gets very annoying to the admins of the board.

Why are they admins?

They made the site and board. If we voted, we'd end up with the same admins, because of their dedication, and the fact that they know what they're doing. If you don't like this, then start you're own site and/or board. They aren't the admins of the game or community, just their website. Nobody runs Jazz 2.

I have a site, but nobody is visiting it.

Well, then you have a problem. Either nobody knows about it, or it's not very good. You have complete control over your website, along with the people you grant permission to edit it. But still, just because you don't have any visitors, you can still have fun with it, as it is completely yours. Exeptions are that your host edits it, in which case you'll just have to DEAL WITH IT. It's your responsibility to find a good host, and although you could ask them to change their policy, it only sometimes helps, but that's your problem, not their's.

Er, that's all, sorry I wasted your time, and I might've sounded like an admin, but that's your opinion.
Edit: BTW, this board is waaaaaaaaaay more active than it used to be :)

[SteelTalon]

Bravo Cappy, my words exactly! =D

[Stijn]

Cappy, that's kinda like what I said :). Good words.

[Ducky]

Rock on, Captain Spam.



Sigh.
`Ducky

[FireSworD]

A little harsh, but very well said, Cap.

[Hellraiser]

Originally posted by iCeD
I don't even know why I was listed there.. my status wasn't "Administrator" last I looked.

My mistake.. sorry iCeD.

[Hellraiser]

The real reason I posted this, was not to flame the admins (though I sorta did), it was really to bring up the suggestion of electing a leader for the JJ2 community!!!!!!

[FireSworD]

I claim the second page!

[Violet CLM]

We don't need one.

[VelKa]

there is already a leader of the JJ2 community, not like we need one anyway lol

[Executor]

I have a bone to pick with IceD. If I ever find him in a game I'm really good at, he'll get the worst whaling of his miserable life (grin). And the person who screwed with me in the BlueBoard will also get it good. NOBODY hacks into MY BlueBoard profile and posts in MY name behind MY back. I will hunt the person responsible down like a dog and then it will be "lock n' load" time.}>

[FireSworD]

iCeD is a good as Jazz2 players get! he creamed me!!! one time. Maybe someday i'll beat him! but i'm still a veteran player at an average of 7.9 skill.

[Ice M A N]

OT: What's this about the BlueBoard thing, Executor? Really? Well.. I have a backup somewhere and I can find the IPs used by it if you really want..

On-Topic: Everything's fine as is. Unless you seriously think there is a way this will improve the community noticeably (which it won't :P), it's not even worth discussing.

[~SPLASH~]

Originally posted by Hellraiser
The real reason I posted this, was not to flame the admins (though I sorta did), it was really to bring up the suggestion of electing a leader for the JJ2 community!!!!!!

We don't want a leader, we aren't a clan, foo'!
you know what I do with ideas like these? THIS: http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/edoom/microwave.gif

:lol:
(no offence)

[COOLM@N CC]

I don't think they are just inportant becouse of the j2o,
but I do think.... uhhh. how coult i tell this...

GPW and CC aren't that good friends...
but GPW gets more distinction becouse shadow is an admin/mod (i don't know the correct name)
and i think this is unfair!
The jj2 commutiny is totally ruled by people of the "other" side, so, i mean the side wich DOESN'T like CC and friends
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Hareoic]

Grrrrr... Splash, where the heck do you get that trash? It's sickening! I'm a child, and that's not appropriate for a child at all!

[FireSworD]

Not really, remember the "Foobs" from Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons, every time Keen touches one of the Foobs it POPS! :lol:

[Hareoic]

That wasn't very realistic for one thing. For another, it wasn't done by means of torment.

[Hellraiser]

Originally posted by COOLM@N CC
I don't think they are just inportant becouse of the j2o,
but I do think.... uhhh. how coult i tell this...

GPW and CC aren't that good friends...
but GPW gets more distinction becouse shadow is an admin/mod (i don't know the correct name)
and i think this is unfair!
The jj2 commutiny is totally ruled by people of the "other" side, so, i mean the side wich DOESN'T like CC and friends
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I totally agree with you! I take back my dictatorship comment, (sorta), it's more a one-sided system!

hehehehe..... I've created a political arguement.... it's all going to plan...... j/k :D

[URJazzCC]

I sorta see what Coolman is talking about, but it's not quite that bad. There are the more popular people who are against CC, and sorta give it a bad name, but lots of people on Jazz2 aren't quite THAT stupid and just follow others opinions blindly. But I understand where you are coming from.

[VelKa]

<b>stay on topic.</b>

[ShadowGPW]

When do you guys start to learn to keep my clan out of it they have notthing to do with it! And I don't hate CC every one here that can obey the J2CF rules will have no problems. Btw whole internet is under a dictatorship, example GameSpy, PlanetQuake and tons of other gaming sites with a forum has mostly 1 or 2 leaders, otherwise it will mess things up...

[COOLM@N CC]

Originally posted by Agent Megumi
<b>stay on topic.</b>

This is just where the topic is all about!
CC and friends (CTU) are just a bit in the background of the community, because most of the *important* rabbits of the community are connected to don't-like-cc-clans or are clan haters

But we (CC) do are a big clan, and almost everybody who has TRIED it loves it!
But many of the community members don't TRY it, because those *important* ones say we just suck or they say nothing at all
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[VelKa]

<b>okay, FINE. Correction: <u>stay on topic</u> and stop talking about rubbish. stop picking on other people and clans. stop talking about clans here this isn't the clan forum lol</b>

IMHO, ALL clans suck. don't ask me why i feel this way but in either case i don't want to hear anything about clans over here....talk about it in the clan forum please so i can conveniently avoid hearing it

you need someone to keep order in the community, as i keep saying, as everyone else keeps saying. i suggest that we stop picking on the admins and simply SHUT UP.

wow i sound so grumpy eh?

---Agent Megumi

[~SPLASH~]

So...if a GPW member is an admin on a site, and a CC member not, you see that as "discrimination"...weird...cos clans have nothing to do with j2o or the messageboard. But ok...so you also agree with my following idea: a CC member is not allowed to ban or kick somebody out of his/her server, because that is discrimination of that person?...so weird that happened to me all the time some time ago....It is the same. And it is useless. Don't compare clans with the community.

[COOLM@N CC]

Originally posted by ~SPLASH~
So...if a GPW member is an admin on a site, and a CC member not, you see that as "discrimination"...weird...cos clans have nothing to do with j2o or the messageboard. But ok...so you also agree with my following idea: a CC member is not allowed to ban or kick somebody out of his/her server, because that is discrimination of that person?...so weird that happened to me all the time some time ago....It is the same. And it is useless. Don't compare clans with the community.

If A CC member has started a PUBLIC server, you may join whenever you like, when de server is passworded and you do come in with an IP, you'd probably be kicked, because we are testing a member or a level, or we are doing private trainings
If the server was public, pleas report the kicking to CB, neo or me. And tell me who the one was who kicked you!

*sight*
I heard rumors saing CC is "evil" and i hate that...

[~SPLASH~]

Originally posted by COOLM@N CC


If A CC member has started a PUBLIC server, you may join whenever you like, when de server is passworded and you do come in with an IP, you'd probably be kicked, because we are testing a member or a level, or we are doing private trainings
If the server was public, pleas report the kicking to CB, neo or me. And tell me who the one was who kicked you!

*sight*
I heard rumors saing CC is "evil" and i hate that...
aherm, it was a public server, and it was CB himself. But that was quite some time ago, and I only took this as an example.

~Ignorance is Bliss~ eh?

[Newspaz]

Coolman? Why are you involving GPW or CC in this? I think if you start this, you are just asking for problems.

It's like this, Hellraiser started a topic about a not-so-good subject IMO. We are just talking about it and you start involving a CC, GPW thingy (well how should I call it? I can't call it a fight anymore ;))

It obviously wasn't the meaning of this topic.

And btw, Shadow got there by helping out a lot, and of course by having the right friends (you can't deny that). But it would be a tad weird if we would have to give any clan's leader an admin possition, without doing a thing.

If you think you can do this better... start your own Jazz2 community website alright? You'll see it's not that easy to get visitors.

[COOLM@N CC]

Raiser?
This is just what you mean isn't it?

[~SPLASH~]

Originally posted by COOLM@N CC
Raiser?
This is just what you mean isn't it?
Yeah, and when Coolman gives Raiser 100 bucks (or a co-leading function in "CC") Raiser says: OF COURSE IT WAS MY IDEA TO INVOLVE CC AND GPW IN IT!!!!11!1

this has to do with the Jazz community being a "dictatorship", nothing to do with clans. And still you cannot see the difference. It seems you are an ignorant to the outside world...

[ShadowGPW]

And how did I get here? Well, I geuss it all started at Jazz 2 City a few years ago when Wakeman requested new staff and I joined as a LevelGroups and Clans Admin.. :)

but now Quit this clan part and get back on topic

[COOLM@N CC]

ok, I’ll talk further on this in the Clan Related Forum

[VelKa]

THANK YOU FOR MOVING YOUR (//) COMPLAINTS TO THE DESIGNATED FORUM!!!!11 WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG????? (//)

<b>Stay on topic from now on.</b> Shutting up....one moment please

Done. I'm shutting up from now on unless someone gets me annoyed. (///) <---<i>Edited by Agent Megumi. Ahem.</i>

---Agent Megumi

Derby: Content edit. Such content can be very offensive, so be careful.

[Krezack]

lol derby you love your job don't you :)

[FireSworD]

My signature says it all! (though i think he's doing a good job).

[Black Energy]

I have the feeling that both Raiser and Coolman are very right.

[VelKa]

*cries* But...but Derbay didn't give me a WARNING?!!!? I wanna be banned the next time I say something mean like that!!!! *cries even more* I wanted a warning for that!!!!!

[~SPLASH~]

Originally posted by Black Energy
I have the feeling that both Raiser and Coolman are very right.
I have the feeling they are both very wrong. you see, j2o is a fan-site. Not a community-site. The only reason it looks like one is that everyone visits it. If you can create your own populair Jazz Fan-site, would you think it is ok for other people to take your site away and give it to people who got voted for to rule it?

[COOLM@N CC]

it IS the community site, even if it wasn't ment to be

[Violet CLM]

No, it's only a fan site. Was J2C a community site? Was UJ? How can you say that J2O is a community site just because you can rate downloads as well, and it tells you what serverrs are up without you having to bring up JJ2, and it includes a message board that everyone visits? Just because something has tons of members, doesn't mean it is the community. Splash has a very good point there.

[Poison IvEE]

I totally agree with the good Captain, and I also think that this might have been posted to try and cause unrest. Nice try! It isn't going to work. Not on this board. I think most of the members here just want to have some fun, not argue!

"Hey" where did everybody go? I was just getting started! "Oh well" I guess I will save it for another day:)

[Newspaz]

Originally posted by COOLM@N CC
it IS the community site, even if it wasn't ment to be

So you're saying you can do better?