If Epic or Project 3 Made A Jazz 2 Editor Book...

[Nadine]

...would you buy it? Specifically I mean, if they created an easy to use complete guide for editing Jazz 2 in several ways - including making levels in JCS, creating new playable characters or enemies, making your own tilesets, music or sounds, and also including software that made it easier to edit the sourcecode - would you buy it? Would it profitable for them to create such a guide and software? Would you but if they only sold it online?

I'm asking this because I would REALLY like to make new playable characters. Ofcourse the characters are great, and people are making great tilesets and levels already, but I would really like to add new characters to play in the game. I wouldn't want to have to deal with programming very much, unless there was such a guide and make editing the sourcecode easy to do. I do love to draw and I'm a rookie at animating. I would first want to start with existing characters from other games. I don't think copyrights would be an issue. Besides getting a scanner, downloading a GIF animator, and getting photoshop or something to edit the frames of the character, the only things standing in my way of doing this are lack of knowledge in how to do it. How do I look at all the frames of animations from characters in existing games? How can I put the final completed character into Jazz2?

I really wish they made a guide with how to create new characters, because I really really would like to do this. It would be fun, and you guys would see some new guys online to play against, or be able to be such characters or maybe even create your own. I don't want to accept that this can never happen. I want to add characters to Jazz 2! But I think Epic and Project 3 Interactive could care less about this game and it's fanbase. Such a shame it really is. Sigh... :(

[Mystical]

Learn C++ :p

[JanusJackrabbit]

Screenshots = frames.

[EvilMike]

I would not buy the book because I already know how to use JCS.

[Mystical]

I think I already know how to do most things using jcs including making tilesets.
If it told how to create new characters or enemies I might though.
And if it told how to create events.

[Nadine]

Originally posted by JanusJackrabbit
Screenshots = frames.

Yeah, but how could I pause the screen or get a screen shot of every single frame when the animations move so quickly? That would be quite difficult to do and keep track of, I think. Um, so if I press "print screen" on my keyboard, what happens? Where does it save the screen? I must have pressed the button ten times by accident already, and I wonder where all this crap is on my computer.

[defalcon]

Nadine, erm...I think I've said it before but...
You can't make custom events, characters or animations for Jazz2!!!
Two words for you: Sourcecode. We don't have it, we're unlikely to get it. Our best chance was Arjan, who owns some of the rights to Jazz and was the lead programmer of Jazz2. But even he doesn't have all the rights and as thus we can't get it. Without it, we can't make any.

Now as for a book on JCS, I already know how to use it. Epic abandoned Jazz a LONG time ago, abandoned it as in they don't respond to help support about it, they haven't updated the site for about 3 years, the 1.25 patch was abandoned, they even gave up on finding pblishers on Jazz3 for goodness sakes. Godgames lost money on the game ITSELF, Epic isn't going to spend ages writing a BOOK for 500 or so odd fans, most of whom already know how to make levels. And as for custom characters and events, I've said it before - sourcecode. It'd be extremely hard even WITH the sourcecode. Not to mention it would create a slew of incompatibilities. If there is anything new going to JJ2 program wise, it's gonna be programs from people such as the J2HG, or come in the form of a development from the 1.25 people - who can't make any progress other than IDENTIFYING bugs, because no surce code equals no fixes. I'm sorry if I seem a little nasty, but I've had a bad day, and I've repeated myself on ths repeatedly. We CAN'T make any new events or animations or characters. Epic isn't going to publish a book for a minority of people who already know how to use JCS. We can't add anything new to the game other than levels and tilesets and an odd assortment of programs that do little more than edit the memory values.

[Stijn]

Sourcecode is <b>one</b> word, defalcon.

I'll buy the book, just because I collect every JJ2 thing. I'm starting to hate Epic now anyway because they created a game with much fans and now they JUST IGNORE all the questions from us and WE WANT SOURCECODE! Hah. I'll ignore epic from now, mwahaha.

[Newspaz]

I'd buy it, just to have it ;)

[ShadowGPW]

Project 2 not Project 3 ;P

[Mystical]

erm..its more like 6 months they have not updated the daily carrot for.

[Nadine]

WOAH DEFALCON! OKAY, I GET IT! JEEZ.....

Maybe I don't know how to use JCS, and I tried it before and I couldn't figure it all out with the limited help they give you, and I don't want to bounce around from site to site, from post to post, from email to email to learn how to do it! That book I thought would be a complete editor's guide, so it wouldn't make much sense to make it without saying how to use JCS. Than again, it wouldn't make much sense to make a book helping fans do what alot of them already know how to.

I want the scorcecode! I want a hacker, a really super-egghead, computer genius to help me get it and help me figure out how to edit it. Do you really want to be the abandoned Jazzers? Why don't we (make em mad) until they give in and pay attention to us again?! Or why don't they sell the Jazz licence?

If there's one thing I really hate it's developers who keep the rights to a certain license, but don't plan on using the license anymore! The rich, greedy (people) get us all addicted to their creation, and then they push us aside like a pile of trash and keep the creation seemingly locked in a vault, never to be exposed again!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Derby: Content/Context edit.

[Nadine]

Woah, I think I swore too much. Thanks for getting me in the spirit defalcon ;) Nah, we're cool. You just want me to understand that Epic is made up of $$ in their eyes jerks, and that sadly the Jazz Community is small considering how cool this franchise is. Who is this Arjan you speak of? Why are the rights such a big issue? They can keep their rights, just let us get some use out of it, like JCS.

[defalcon]

Originally posted by Nadine
Woah, I think I swore too much. Thanks for getting me in the spirit defalcon ;) Nah, we're cool. You just want me to understand that Epic is made up of $$ in their eyes jerks, and that sadly the Jazz Community is small considering how cool this franchise is. Who is this Arjan you speak of? Why are the rights such a big issue? They can keep their rights, just let us get some use out of it, like JCS.
Yep, no bad language. I wasn't being offensive, but there have been tonnes of posts about 'how can I make new characters' and so on, so I figured I'd just get it all out.

Oh be quiet Shadow. ;)
Bah, I can't spell :p

Arjan is the lead programmer of Jazz Jackrabbit 1 and 2, he basically created it (although it was an astronaut originally), and thus he owns alot of the rights. The rights are important because giving away the sourcecode could allow us to modify the game or even code games out of it (to a limited extent). Thus, it IS a big deal.

[Michael]

HEELO! Nice newbie! Nadine!
DROP IT! NO NEW VERSION OFFJAZZ WILL COME!!! NEXT TIME YOU SAY SOMEHING ABOUT EDITING ANDNEWW JJ2 VERSION AM GONNAEAT YOU LIKE I EAT ALL N00BS!! hehe.
Just drop it Nadine...

[Michael]

"of cource the characters are great!" Then why my new ones?
You don't like it? leave.

[mirrow]

Nadine rules!!! She believes in Jazz!!!

Just look at you .. you always say pah there is no new version .. jazz2 is old blablabla PAHH ....

[Nadine]

Man, you guys are all against me! Hey, forgive me if I happen to be talented in drawing and want to get creative and make my own characters and share them with you guys! Forgive me if I love Jazz 2 so much that I don't want to have the "screw it, we'll never get the sourcecode" attitude! Forgive me if I have no idea or interest in making new levels or tilesets and want to contribute to the community in some other form! Forgive me if I see something wrong with the Jazz franchise being ignored and that Epic, GodGames, whoever doesn't want to support an old game.

By the way, Jazz 2 isn't all that old. When did it come out - 1999 I think? Sega is still supporting their costumers with service for their Dreamcast console which came out in 1999 and they no longer manufacture, and remember, Dreamcast caused them to lose money big time, and they still support their fans. Blizzard probably still supports Diablo (the original one) and it's like 5 or 6 years old. Actually it's still sold in stores I think. So when you guys say Jazz 2 is an old game, maybe it's not a late 2001 or early 2002 game, but it ain't old.

There, I believe I got my anger out without swearing this time. Oh yeah, and it's not polite to diss a newbie. That's no way to keep the community alive. Everyone was a newbie at some point. ;)

[defalcon]

1999? Erm, no, try 4 years ago. Epic has abandoned all but its Unreal Series. They don't provide us with anything now. As it sands, sorry Nadine, but levels and tilesets are about the ONLY way to contribute.

[Link]

Originally posted by Mystical
erm..its more like 6 months they have not updated the daily carrot for.

erm...then why is their most recent news post "24th November 1998" and the site © 1998.

I wish it was 6 months though...

[FoD]

Oh how I wish Jazz was all you make it out to be. When it was new, yes. It hauled back then. Blazed new territory. Now.. I could care less about the game. I don't play it, and if it weren't for a few people I don't want to offend or argue with about it, I'd b gone from this board, and from Jazz. I'll keep the CD for my children to play, but I really can't force myself to hang around. I don't think Jazz2 is going to go any place. It won't ever gain fame with the gaming sites again. A new game will probably never be released (and trust me, Jazz3 was cool, but it needed tons more work). We'll most likely never get the sourcecode, and any hacking up off the game and adding and reproduction is (in my opinion) illegal, do to the fact that it is copyrighted, and we haven't gained the rights. Now get off your bum and find something else to do.

[Nadine]

Originally posted by FoD
A new game will probably never be released (and trust me, Jazz3 was cool, but it needed tons more work). We'll most likely never get the sourcecode, and any hacking up off the game and adding and reproduction is (in my opinion) illegal, do to the fact that it is copyrighted, and we haven't gained the rights. Now get off your bum and find something else to do.

Well, Space Quest 7 was turning out to be nothing close to what it should have been, and then the project seemed completely canned. After a long time, Sierra may be working on it again, and it seems more promising, but I can't really say for sure since no info is out about it yet. Maybe Jazz 3 was canned because it wasn't turning out that great. Maybe after a while, the interest will come back, and the game will turn out better than it would have originally.

Finally, I get it you guys. I don't want to be annoying, or even worse - be a constant reminder of what we can't have and make you all depressed. I'll leave it alone for now. I'll play Jazz 2 the way it is, download some interesting levels, and make characters for games that will allow me to, like Duke Nukem 3D. I wonder if there are other games out there that allow you to make characters. Then, should the unlikely event ever happen that we get the sourcecode, I'll have some experience making characters, and you'll see some cool stuff from me. Until then, I'm sorry for disturbing the peace. Consider this topic dead.

HOWEVER..... I still want to know where the screenshots are saved when I press printscreen, and does anyone know where I can find some animated Jazz 2 gifs?

[Violet CLM]

When you press Printscreen, it copies the entire screen. Load up a paint program, and paste as new image.
The screenshot key for JJ2 is F12, and it saves it in the JJ2 directory, as a .tga file for 16 bit, .pcx for 8 bit. Jazz***.pcx/tga, *** being numbers.
I don't know about animated Jazz gifs, but you can make them yourself. Holding down F12 long enough will get you an animation, frame by frame.

[defalcon]

Originally posted by Nadine
Well, Space Quest 7 was turning out to be nothing close to what it should have been, and then the project seemed completely canned. After a long time, Sierra may be working on it again, and it seems more promising, but I can't really say for sure since no info is out about it yet. Maybe Jazz 3 was canned because it wasn't turning out that great. Maybe after a while, the interest will come back, and the game will turn out better than it would have originally.

Finally, I get it you guys. I don't want to be annoying, or even worse - be a constant reminder of what we can't have and make you all depressed. I'll leave it alone for now. I'll play Jazz 2 the way it is, download some interesting levels, and make characters for games that will allow me to, like Duke Nukem 3D. I wonder if there are other games out there that allow you to make characters. Then, should the unlikely event ever happen that we get the sourcecode, I'll have some experience making characters, and you'll see some cool stuff from me. Until then, I'm sorry for disturbing the peace. Consider this topic dead.

HOWEVER..... I still want to know where the screenshots are saved when I press printscreen, and does anyone know where I can find some animated Jazz 2 gifs?
They stopped making Jazz3 because they couldn't get a publisher and thus had no funds. But they've moved on now, no more JJ3. JJ3 wasn't turning out bad, JJ3=awesome, trust me.

[JanusJackrabbit]

So... It's money problems instead of popularity?

[FQuist]

Both. GodGames refused to publish it because they lost money on jj2.

Nitro, please don't be so harsh. It's very irritating for some people if you act like that.

Nadine, don't let those complaints disturb you. There's nothing wrong with being optimistic. The optimism just tends to wear down when being in the community longer, also with me, so there's a lot of bitterness and stuff. Don't let it stop you.

[Nadine]

Originally posted by Fquist
Both. GodGames refused to publish it because they lost money on jj2.

Nitro, please don't be so harsh. It's very irritating for some people if you act like that.

Nadine, don't let those complaints disturb you. There's nothing wrong with being optimistic. The optimism just tends to wear down when being in the community longer, also with me, so there's a lot of bitterness and stuff. Don't let it stop you.

Thanks. I really appreciate those comments. I hate being shutup so quick because I don't give up. But, I guess those of you who have been here a long time would get pretty upset over things like that.

Anyway, F12 takes a screenshot, and then what do I do to view the screenshots? Or should I just use printscreen then?

[blurredd]

Need animated gifs? Try starting with Lori (http://www.noogy.com/noogy/lori.html) ;)

[Nadine]

Yes, I've seen those, thanks anyway. But some are missing like her jumping animations, and I can't remember if there are others. Almost all of them are there though.

[Nadine]

So how can I view the tga files that are created by pressing F12? How come the manual for Jazz 2 doesn't tell you everything about the game? (like F12, or F9, or how to make fancy coloured text when you chat?)

[FQuist]

JJ2 was released before it was done, that's why.(Epic yaya)

You can view them using most big picture editing programs, like paint shop pro and photoshop, and most picture viewers. The names usually have the format of Jazzxxxxx.tga

[Michael]

Didn't mean it so harsh, Nadine. Sorreh. (I dun forgive ppl, I just sign a contract I don't eat them for thwe next 14 days.)

Your new, young, like a child full of whitem, red, pink blue (if yeh know what I mean) there all happy and full of hope (like their never gonna die or osmething.. lol) but I'm now an "adult" I know I'm going to die thus, I see there is no future of JJ2 so I got no hope that anything will continue of JJ2 except levels and tilesets, which I love and are a unique exilent feature of JJ2 and are one of the things that keep me clinging onto the game, I don't play much because most of the newbies are lame, make hotels, corrupted. (I've heard the lectures about un-corrupting them etc.)
I'll leave you all to watering the new plants (newbies).

[Shiverz]

And then when everyones finished arguing over this everyone will go onto doing stuff for jj1

[Violet CLM]

When you press F12, it will take a screenshot, saved as a .tga file for 16 bit, .pcx for 8 bit. I have never been able to open a .tga file, so I can't help you there, but .pcx can be opened in most any paint program.

Don't use Print Screen.

[Nadine]

Originally posted by Nitro
Didn't mean it so harsh, Nadine. Sorreh. (I dun forgive ppl, I just sign a contract I don't eat them for thwe next 14 days.)

Your new, young, like a child full of whitem, red, pink blue (if yeh know what I mean) there all happy and full of hope (like their never gonna die or osmething.. lol) but I'm now an "adult" I know I'm going to die thus, I see there is no future of JJ2 so I got no hope that anything will continue of JJ2 except levels and tilesets, which I love and are a unique exilent feature of JJ2 and are one of the things that keep me clinging onto the game, I don't play much because most of the newbies are lame, make hotels, corrupted. (I've heard the lectures about un-corrupting them etc.)
I'll leave you all to watering the new plants (newbies).

Actually I'm an adult, Nitro. A young one a that, but still an adult. So maybe I believe in Jazz. Maybe I see this franchise great enough and with enough potential to please a wider audience. But if the developer doesn't think so, then the "Sonic for the PC" mascot will indeed die. How truely terrible.

You want pessimestic? I can be that way too. Here is what I believe in:

Life is H.E.L.L. There is no place underground with little devils and fire. Evil exists no where else but here, but there is heaven, with no evil. It's good to know that you won't be punished for every stupid sin if they're small and you apologized to the person, and you didn't do anything to purposely hurt someone. There is no place to see if you qualify for heaven when you die. You'll either be stuck on earth as a ghost because you don't know you ever died (unless you go through the tunnel and into the light), or you'll go to heaven, or if you're evil, you'll come right back to earth again in a new body with no paradise to go to. We get hurt when someone dies even though they are at a better place, because we don't get to join them probably for a very long time. Let's face it life sucks, reality sucks. That's why I play games - to escape from the H.E.L.L around me and focus on something else.

It's an interesting topic, but I won't bore you with it. I believe in what Sylvia Browne the physic says. Many physics are phoney, but she is for real. I've read her books. She is a sceptic herself, and comes from the "show me" state. But it's for real.

Anyway, sorry for changing the topic. So, you guys may be right. There will never be a Jazz 3 or any sourcecode or new version for JJ2, and if so that's further proof that this really is H.E.L.L. I bet I'm going to get a lot of LOL replies now, but hey - I'm just sharing what I believe in. And if you saw Sylvia Browne on TV or read her books, and if you atleast believe your soul doesn't stay with the body in the ground for eternity, than you can understand why I believe in this. And it really helps when ever you lose someone you care about, but it's much like painkillers in pill form - they diminish the pain, but it doesn't go completely away.

[Nadine]

I changed the topic so much before, so I'll make up for it now. Whether or not it's likely we'll get the sourcecode, I think a book like this (and with software to edit the game more) would be really very cool. Like the BUILD book for Duke Nukem 3D. It makes it easy to understand, and gives pictures and diagrams to make it even easier. A book like that for JCS/game engine editor would be really appreciated by all of us, but I guess you guys would be happy enough with a book about editing Jazz 2 besides using JCS since you already know how to. But if it was afforable enough, it's still good to have a reference around. You may know how to use JCS already, but if you stop using it for a long time, when you come back to it, you'll have to learn it all over again, though you'd learn it faster because you'd start to remember things. Also this book would include how to make tilesets, because not everyone knows how to do that. Or is it easy?

[defalcon]

JCS is like riding a bike. Unless it's something really complex, ala QoB or a tonne of trigger zones or some MCE combo's, you're not gonna forget. JCS is extremely easy, tilesets...if you're good at graphics you should have no problem (computer graphics). Ie: I know the process of making them, but my drawing skills on the comp is bad - efil mouse.

And like i've said - there is no way to edit JJ2 beyond memory values without...well you know. ;P And besides, why buy a CD for stuff we already know how to do (cause we CAN'T edit JJ2 much beyond memory values and stuff) and programs which are downloadable - eg: Project Cataclysm, Lorifier (shameless plug for Krez ;P) etc.

[Michael]

Lol. Take it easy Nadine, your eing too harsh! I'm not a pesamistic guy but... nvm. Dun wanna keep a flamewar up or anything. Anyways sorry for anything.

I wouldn't buy a CD as you describe, Nadine, as defalcon said the only editing in Jazz2 is levels, tilesets and memory values which are a bit limited also. :/

[Nadine]

Are you sure there's absolutely no way to hack into the game? Like there must be all the neccessary code right in the game CD, you just can't see it normally. You have to know how to hack into it and edit the code, hmm? But (sigh), even if it were possible to add new characters that way, I still wouldn't be able to because that's WAY beyond my knowledge, and trying to hack the CD would ruin my game for good.

So then how come so many other games get game mods, when they don't exactly all come with a user friendly "make your own characters and events" editor. People hack into them, right? I guess I don't know how it works.

[defalcon]

Originally posted by Nadine
Are you sure there's absolutely no way to hack into the game? Like there must be all the neccessary code right in the game CD, you just can't see it normally. You have to know how to hack into it and edit the code, hmm? But (sigh), even if it were possible to add new characters that way, I still wouldn't be able to because that's WAY beyond my knowledge, and trying to hack the CD would ruin my game for good.

So then how come so many other games get game mods, when they don't exactly all come with a user friendly "make your own characters and events" editor. People hack into them, right? I guess I don't know how it works.
Well, you can't hack the as you can't write to it. :p And other games can be modded as they were built to allow such modifications - JJ2 was not. It never has been, it never will be, and it would just create [B]incompatibility. And no, there is NO WAY TO HACK JJ2. Oh sure you could try, but tonnes have...like...oh, everyone who's tried before, Dethman I suppose, MetalWarrior and Ever maybe, say, Kaz and the people at J2HG, the 1.25 people...and yes, they are exceptionally knowledgable at what they do. The 'moddable' games you speak of include Unreal, which has it's oiwn coding language ala UnrealScript, Q3A, which also can be coded if the user knows some of the game code index values and C++...blah blah. No way.

[Michael]

Other games have mods, Nadine, I think because there sorce code was released.
Not too sure on that so someone back me up.

Hey! I claim page two! n.n

[Nadine]

Wow, defalcon teaches me a lot again! Woah, so many knowledgable people already attempted this and failed? If that doesn't prove it's impossible, what does? Gee, we really would need the sourcecode, and will probably never ever get it.....
:( :( :(

Hmm, then why was Epic so nice about Unreal then? Unreal came out before Jazz 2, so they didn't know it would be so popular yet. Perhaps they didn't really imagine people would want to mod a 2D game, so they just made it impossible to do so?

Oh well, I guess you can't complain. They could have just sold Jazz 2 on it's own, but they included Jazz CD (well I had to phone to get it) as well as a level editor AND online play. So that's all very very awesome.

[Ninja]

right as the source code was uploaded to J2O I downloaded it..but my computer got formatted %@3$@#$@!

You could edit stuff like your own cheats :) e.g
JJNinja - God