Rewriting JJ2 / Making JJ3

[GoGi]

Okay maybe we'll get the sourcecode someday, but meanwhile there are other things we could do but it's going to be really hard

1. Totally rewrite the JJ2 engine from scratch. :eek:
This *is* possible, i think the biggest problem is that we need to hack into the Jazz 2 Fileformats. Then we'll have to rewrite the game :D

I think i would be a good idea to use the SDL.
If you are able to write in C++ and you want to help me you are very welcome :D it's a lot to do and we'll really need a lot of coders and some fileformathackers.

2. We could make a "Jazz Jackrabbit 3" (maybe we'll have to rename it because it's copyrighted ?!?)
It could be some kind of 3D-Jump 'n run.
I suggest using the Crystal Space 3d engine (free software, fast, platform independent and i know how to use it).

I will only start ONE of these 2 projects , and i will start it ONLY if we are enough developers. if you are good at writing C++ code and you want to develop one of the projects with me please post here, if you re good at modeling 3d-characters and objects or have some good ideas what to do (project 2 only) post here as well.

[Teej]

Both sound just about do-able, but hey, thats on paper. If anyone could actually execute something like this, i would be surprised.

[GoGi]

I think if i could work 10 times faster than now. i could do both projects in a reasonable time. :D

So i think 10 coders will be ok :O

[Blimp]

:eek: Do it alone for now until you get coders.
But shouldn't we write a story line?
Create tha creatures.
Design "Razz" :eek:
Do the copyright under me while I let you work ;)

Blimp.

[GoGi]

Ok we will need a story but the most important thing for the JJ3 project would be to get the Game engine (Level Loading, Model loading, Networking etc.) working and THEN we can implement the weapons we need and the levels we need for the story.

[Haze]

Razz Earlong already has been designed. ;) Just hop on over to Noogy.com to find info and pics.
As for stories, do we need more? There are plenty already, just look in the archives or on the Project3 http://www.p3int.com/ forums. Or take the original basic plot, again on Noogy.com. :)

So yes, the hardest part would be the technical thingies. Getting everything documented and prepared. Followed by assembling a dev-team. Not to mention funding (if needed), promotion, internal organisation and the works.
There have been many attempts already and many volunteers as well who are willing to help. Seems kinda strange, we've got so many talent here and still no JJ3. The closest thing ever to a community effort still was Possum Forest. :P

[Alister]

See? I knew someone would mention Possum.
They always do :)

Possum is (was?) a commercial project. With a changing community, a "Community Effort" would make everyone's lives very difficult. Getting 1000 people to sign a contract, for a start. And then everybody would get peanuts.

Of course, a non-profit project could work. But the JJ2 engine is complex.
Even if there were enough people, with enough patience, they would probably want to start a whole new project. With the file format issue it would simply be easier. And if they did that, they'd eventually make it commercial.

So we have a vicious circle here, folks. :(

[GoGi]

Okay everyone who wants to join the team please contact me via ICQ: 82691434
if you do not have ICQ post here.
I think we will need:

-lots of coders (you should know C++ quite well if you want to be a coder)
-some modelers
-some levelmakers
-other people (if you have any ideas just msg me)

We can do it!! :) The crystal space engine already has every low-level thing we need (graphics, networking, input) and it is very portable:
You can play the game on Windows, Linux, MacOS, BeOS, DOS (very slow) even a PS2 and a Dreamcast port are planned :O (don't know if these will really ever be implemented but who knows...)
You will have to compile it for every platform of course.
The engine looks really great...

but it's still a lot to do...

CODERS CONTACT ICQ#82691434

[||Slim]

i dont know any programming.. but any software you guys need or anything, just ask i guess, or anything i can do.

[Haze]

Originally posted by GoGi
Okay everyone who wants to join the team please contact me via ICQ: 82691434
if you do not have ICQ post here.
I think we will need:

-lots of coders (you should know C++ quite well if you want to be a coder)
-some modelers
-some levelmakers
-other people (if you have any ideas just msg me)

*snip*

CODERS CONTACT ICQ#82691434

Add to that list:
- graphicians
- musicians
- writers (yes, really)
- artistical directors (to make all of the above work together)
- managers (managing all the stuff is a job on its own)
... and probably a whole lot more. :)

As said, if you wanna do this for real, work out the plans first THEN assemble a dev-team. ;)

[Cpp]

Originally posted by GoGi
Okay maybe we'll get the sourcecode someday, but meanwhile there are other things we could do but it's going to be really hard

1. Totally rewrite the JJ2 engine from scratch. :eek:
This *is* possible, i think the biggest problem is that we need to hack into the Jazz 2 Fileformats. Then we'll have to rewrite the game :D

I think i would be a good idea to use the SDL.
If you are able to write in C++ and you want to help me you are very welcome :D it's a lot to do and we'll really need a lot of coders and some fileformathackers.

2. We could make a "Jazz Jackrabbit 3" (maybe we'll have to rename it because it's copyrighted ?!?)
It could be some kind of 3D-Jump 'n run.
I suggest using the Crystal Space 3d engine (free software, fast, platform independent and i know how to use it).

I will only start ONE of these 2 projects , and i will start it ONLY if we are enough developers. if you are good at writing C++ code and you want to develop one of the projects with me please post here, if you re good at modeling 3d-characters and objects or have some good ideas what to do (project 2 only) post here as well.

Good luck :)

[Fawriel]

If anyone needs a good story,I'm here!

[FQuist]

This jj2 remake won't work. It proved to be completely impossible to hack the jj2 file formats. They're so compressed and have so much tricks that even the developers wouldn't be able to decompress it without the source code.

Also, if you want to make a 3D game, consider this:

Making a full-featured 3D game takes many years, and that is for proffesional teams that work fulltime. Now you and a few people with almost no experience in games programming plan to create a game as big as that? You can't work at it fulltime, you don't have all the tools those people have, and you don't get money for it. How do you want to keep all these project members satisfied? Do you think you can push them to work at a project for 4 years, devoting all their free time to it and doing it without getting money? I doubt you do.

You simply won't get people working fast for 4 years. They lose faith, or slack. You really won't keep these people motivated for 4 years, especially because they are young. They want to have fun, they have to do home work, they go to college, have to do exams, etcetera. Possum(another ambitious project) is barely coming along because the programmer is in college. It IS coming along, but it is less complicated then a 3d game.

Please DO consider these things for starting a project like that. I know it isn't pleasant for you that I'm so skeptic, but you can't just go and decide to make a new game full of ambition, without thinking about the problems around it. This is real life. Hope and blind ambition doesn't cut the cake. It helps a lot, afcourse, ambition and hope are necesarry ingredients, but you can't just act to them blindly, just like in real-life. Wanting something is something different then doing something. We have seen the many jj2 projects and clans that died because the leaders did not understand that, please don't fall into the same pit.

Besides, another issue, you don't have the rights for the jj2 characters.

How funny, this same thread was there a long time ago, with possum. That game is coming along, but that is because of the very skilled programmers. Still, it has huge problems, like a lack of management. This means some group members don't even know what to do.

Conclusion:

Don't get all hopelessness because of my message. Just start doing this thing proffesionally, otherwise it won't work at all. If yo aren't organized well, this won't work. You need good management and documentation, like Haze said. Please don't fall into the same pit as all the other ambitious projects.. you can forgive these small projects because they don't matter much, but if this huge project comes off, you're going to create a lot of trouble if it doesn't work out because of bad organisation. If you start this project, you'll owe the people that believe in it a happy ending. That is quite some pressure on your back, can you take it?

[JJ BBoy KS]

I was thinking it would be interesting to have a side-scrolling game just like JJ2, but with 3D objects. So it'd all be 3D, but it's a side-scrolling game :D

[Monolith]

Yea, I've thought that too.. I think it's a good idea.

[Link]

Well I would contact you on ICQ, but I'm at school right now.

I can help with management and some coding.

I haven't had much experience in C++, but I have had lots of experience in C, so that is why I said "some."

I like managing things.

[>>Møønßlãzé<<]

Tsk tsk Fquist, don't destroy dreams.
If the game comes up, I help with level making.

[Fawriel]

But did anybody think of one of the main things which make Jazz2
so beloved?
It would be impossible for me to create any 3D levels or tilesets,buddys.

What I want to say is:
Who needs 3D Games:D ?

[atesoR]

Originally posted by Piccolo
But did anybody think of one of the main things which make Jazz2
so beloved?
It would be impossible for me to create any 3D levels or tilesets,buddys.

What I want to say is:
Who needs 3D Games:D ?

this thread doesnt deserve to stay open.

[Stijn]

Listen, JJ3 ruled as it was. The demo was IMO addictive, with nice graphics* (look, they worked on it when JJ2 came out!), a good plot (hehe, I never saw a game where you have to save your children), and the gameplay was nice (much puzzles, I like puzzles). If Epic would only give us the JJ3 code and permission to use the engine (They will never do that, anyway)...

About your idea: it won't work. You can't organize a good game making project with people on the other side of the world. It simply won't work: maybe if we already got an engine etcetera...

So sory for destroying your dream.

*If you check the options in the rigth way. The normal settings mean evil gfx.

[$tilettø]

Jazz3 kinda suck IMO

but how far are you guys already?

[Stijn]

Originally posted by $tilettø
[B]Jazz3 kinda suck IMO


Everyone can say that. Say <b>why</b> for once.

[ShadowGPW]

got 30.000 $
got 24/7
got a team of 30 man

if ya have that.. then start building the game :P

[$tilettø]

Originally posted by Fl@$h


Everyone can say that. Say <b>why</b> for once.

well when you start a level the Camera Position just sucks

or is there a way to change it
and when you walk omg

[Haze]

Originally posted by ShadowGPW
got 30.000 $
got 24/7
got a team of 30 man

if ya have that.. then start building the game :P

...check
...uhm... check
...check!
WOOHOO!!

*Then, Haze wakes up from his dream*
"Aarg, d*ng!!!"

[JZBlue]

Originally posted by Fquist
This jj2 remake won't work. It proved to be completely impossible to hack the jj2 file formats. They're so compressed and have so much tricks that even the developers wouldn't be able to decompress it without the source code.

Also, if you want to make a 3D game, consider this:

Making a full-featured 3D game takes many years, and that is for proffesional teams that work fulltime. Now you and a few people with almost no experience in games programming plan to create a game as big as that? You can't work at it fulltime, you don't have all the tools those people have, and you don't get money for it. How do you want to keep all these project members satisfied? Do you think you can push them to work at a project for 4 years, devoting all their free time to it and doing it without getting money? I doubt you do.

You simply won't get people working fast for 4 years. They lose faith, or slack. You really won't keep these people motivated for 4 years, especially because they are young. They want to have fun, they have to do home work, they go to college, have to do exams, etcetera. Possum(another ambitious project) is barely coming along because the programmer is in college. It IS coming along, but it is less complicated then a 3d game.

Please DO consider these things for starting a project like that. I know it isn't pleasant for you that I'm so skeptic, but you can't just go and decide to make a new game full of ambition, without thinking about the problems around it. This is real life. Hope and blind ambition doesn't cut the cake. It helps a lot, afcourse, ambition and hope are necesarry ingredients, but you can't just act to them blindly, just like in real-life. Wanting something is something different then doing something. We have seen the many jj2 projects and clans that died because the leaders did not understand that, please don't fall into the same pit.

Besides, another issue, you don't have the rights for the jj2 characters.

How funny, this same thread was there a long time ago, with possum. That game is coming along, but that is because of the very skilled programmers. Still, it has huge problems, like a lack of management. This means some group members don't even know what to do.

Conclusion:

Don't get all hopelessness because of my message. Just start doing this thing proffesionally, otherwise it won't work at all. If yo aren't organized well, this won't work. You need good management and documentation, like Haze said. Please don't fall into the same pit as all the other ambitious projects.. you can forgive these small projects because they don't matter much, but if this huge project comes off, you're going to create a lot of trouble if it doesn't work out because of bad organisation. If you start this project, you'll owe the people that believe in it a happy ending. That is quite some pressure on your back, can you take it?



That isn't true. Though it would be slightly difficult, the game can be disassembled with Sourcer into fairly readable code. That is if you program assembly, which I do. And even if you don't, you can get an idea if you can at least read it
which most good programmers should be able to do ¬¬

But on another note, I'm currently investigating purchasing the rights to JJ2 and starting and open source network for Jazz. If everything goes right! Everything should get A LOT easier.

[Stijn]

Stiletto:

You CAN change the camera position. Options > Control
And what's wrong with walking? Okay, you leave giant footprints, but no other problems :)

JZBlue: And? How long will it take to get the rights of JJ2? 100 years? :)

[Alister]

Originally posted by JZBlue
But on another note, I'm currently investigating purchasing the rights to JJ2 and starting and open source network for Jazz. If everything goes right! Everything should get A LOT easier.

Would this be the rights to the characters, the game engine, both, or the whole of JJ2?

Funnily enough, a friend and I were pondering just recently how much it would cost to get the engine rights. But who REALLY owns the engine, anyway?

[FQuist]

Assembler. If you want to make the recode take a hundred years you might as well use assembler. I'm sorry, you might be good at it but I think you'd be the only one.

[Alister]

That was Fquist, proudly continuing his community leave.

[JZBlue]

Fquist) Sourcer is a program that comments the Assembly Language after a program has been DissASMed : /

Toxic Bunny) The rights to Jazz2 completely

x.o

[Black S]

Originally posted by Blimp
:eek: Do it alone for now until you get coders.
But shouldn't we write a story line?
Create tha creatures.
Design "Razz" :eek:
Do the copyright under me while I let you work ;)

Blimp.
Razz could somehow have maybe all off the moves from the orignal and some special moves. He would probalyy be a secret Character ( WHat about Deven?)

[JZBlue]

If everyone approves of Razz ¬¬

[Trafton AT]

But we still don't have the source code... :mad: