About Abandonware, Freeware, and JJ2

[JelZe GoldRabbit]

Sorry if the title is a little misleading Derby, you're free to change it ;)

The reason I'm back is because a lot of people mistake abandonware for freeware, which in all meanings is cow dung. That's why I've written this little thing. I'm merely putting it up for proofreading, so additions can be made at any time.

Copyright
To put it bluntly, everything you create is protected by law to prevent others from copying your creations. That goes for anything, down to the little pencil you draw with. If another company wants to use your creations commercially, they'd have to pay licensing fees or "royalties". Names however fall under a separate category called "Trademarks". Just to get this out of the way: copyright does expire, but only after 70 years if it's not passed on or updated. Should a product have more than one copyright date it means it was adapted from a previous release one way or another. Asking patents is the surefire way to really protect ideas from theft.

Freeware
Naturally computer and video games all fall under copyright laws, and as said before, copyrights only expires after 70 years if not updated! That's why Nintendo and Sega can keep releasing those Classic 8-bit and 16-bit era games commercially. However, a special kind of software is "freeware": free to use software, no obligations, free to spread around. The original company still holds the rights to the designs, but not the content. Only the original company can declare something freeware by changing the "Terms of Service" to "Free to Use".

Abandonware
Contrary to popular belief, "Abandonware" is not Freeware, at least not all of it (I'd say a fairly smal part)! In fact, there's no such thing as "Abandonware." People like to think that when the support for a game suddenly stops, it's freeware. Although it is true that freeware games hardly have customer support (if any) from the original company, that doesn't go the other way around! Games, even "abandoned", still fall under copyright laws and Terms of Service no matter how old they are, thus making them illegal to spread around, unless they've been declared freeware.

Jazz Jackrabbit
Now that's out of the way, let's focus on the current state on the Jazz Jackrabbit games. As of now, both Jazz 1 and 2 and all related games (aside from the Shareware Demos) are not freeware as the companies still hold the rights to everything in those games: content, designs, source code, etc. The rights to the different kinds of content are held by different companies, and most are either out of business or bought up. Epic Games currently holds the main rights to the games, but it takes more to declare any of them freeware. As for the source codes, figuring it out is one thing, getting the rights to it is another.

Jazz Jackrabbit 3, the game that never was...
The Jazz Jackrabbit 3 demo deserves a special mention because it was never meant to be released for the public. The demo was a special "Publisher Test Demo" to show off features of the game and entice publishers to release it, as JJ3 was far from finished when the demo was made. As it's not a public demo (they're made when the game is just about done anyhow) it's illegal to spread around. Just so you know, JJ3 was abandoned because no publisher was willing to take it in. That doesn't make it less illegal though.

Comments are welcome.

- JelZe GoldRabbit =:3

[cooba]

About time we needed this sort of thing. Sticky this, anyone?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

PLEASE STICKY THIS. I'm gettting annoyed at all the "Jazz Jackrabbit is Freeware!" (-) and "Jazz Jackrabbit is now abandonware so you can get" buckets of (-). It's been getting so (-) anoying lately. At least once a month somebody posts one of those annoying topics, SO STICKY THIS PLEASE

[niek]

Good idea. Sticking this topic would decrease the amount of topics about this subject, and will give those posters the right information. And anyway, I once saw Jazz2 be placed onto the downloads folder from the CraccoClan site, is this right?

[Link]

I'll stick this. It's mentioned briefly in the FAQ and in the forum rules, but having its own thread and detailed article will help.

(JelZe if you don't want it stickied [stuck?], just say so. I recognize that this isn't a final product.)

[JelZe GoldRabbit]

Well, people can still ask questions and give suggestions for this article. I'm all ears :)

- JelZe GoldRabbit =:3

[Grytolle]

Yeah, that's right, Hareking. It was removed, though. And this topic is useless :lol:

[Trafton]

Thank you, JelZe.

[Torkell]

It's also worth noting that Jazz Jackrabbit 2 can still be bought from some shops (and so shouldn't be considered abandonware anyway).

[eternal_magus]

Sorry if I'm the one who made this topic have to be an issue :(. I misunderstood the meaning of the word (if only It'd been here before I posted :P)

[Trafton]

Sorry if I'm the one who made this topic have to be an issue :(. I misunderstood the meaning of the word (if only It'd been here before I posted :P)

It's understandable. There is a lot of misinformation out there about video/computer game copyright laws. For instance, it is commonly accepted that downloading a game from the Internet is legal if you delete it within 24 hours. In fact, this isn't even <i>close</i> to a real law.

Don't sweat it - you're not the first one to believe the abandonware stuff.

[Doubble Dutch]

Mind you, once its spread around enough abondonwares sites people will be able to find it with a simple Google

Stijn: Stop posting sources for illegal downloads, you know it's forbidden.

[Sonyk]

I thought it was 60 years before a copyright expired.

Either way, great article-thing. Hopefully, this will prevent all those abandonware posts that come from people when they first join here. That is, if they bother to read it.

[LittleFreak]

Nice article. I didn't notice this abandonware topic flood some people were talking about that much, but it's nice to have an article anyways. That way, we can just react by posting the link and don't need to repeat ourselves.

Good job.

*edit*

Now what we really need is an article explaining why 1.00 can't be patched in the Tech Help forum. Wanna do that too Jelly? :roll:

[JelZe GoldRabbit]

Nice article. I didn't notice this abandonware topic flood some people were talking about that much, but it's nice to have an article anyways. That way, we can just react by posting the link and don't need to repeat ourselves.

Good job.

*edit*

Now what we really need is an article explaining why 1.00 can't be patched in the Tech Help forum. Wanna do that too Jelly? :roll:

You ask, I roll :p

- JelZe GoldRabbit =:3

[JelZe GoldRabbit]

Updated with JJ1 and JJ3 demo tie-ins.

- JelZe GoldRabbit =:3

[Blobby]

I've scanned the net and you dan easily find Jazz 2 on 'abandonware' sites. The abandonware sites, which must know the law, still carry on. Yet some developers are willing to ignore the fact that webites distribute their games online for free.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

That's because some companies are Toodle Doops.

[NovaStar]

LOL

[niek]

I wouldn't call Jazz2 abandonware because it can still be bought at some internet stores, see the 'Buy the game' page at the J2O homepage to find out where. And I have still seen Christmas Chronicles in a Dutch store near me, and that's actually the same Jazz2 version as TSF, whice is the Jazz2 game, so forget about Jazz2 being abandonware.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Most of the sites are probably american or Canadian. The only version you can get is 1.23, and only on amazon.

[Sonyk]

*1.22

And Christmas Chronicles is HH'98 with TSF's engine and some new menu stuff, by the way.

[Doubble Dutch]

What I want to know is where Battery Check [The full version, not the demo] fits in to all this, wasn't it given out by some dutch company in exchange for batteries? If so, and they're no longer doing this, what is the legal status of the game? Evidently its abandonware, but is it legal to download and distribute the full game? [And if so, can somoen send me a link :) ]

[JelZe GoldRabbit]

What I want to know is where Battery Check [The full version, not the demo] fits in to all this, wasn't it given out by some dutch company in exchange for batteries? If so, and they're no longer doing this, what is the legal status of the game? Evidently its abandonware, but is it legal to download and distribute the full game? [And if so, can somoen send me a link :) ]

Yes, Battery Check was a game for promoting dropping off batteries in "Small Chemical Waste" bins, so it had some kind of price-tag... I wouldn't really know, I haven't heard anything if it being declared free-ware. I should look into this.

- JelZe GoldRabbit =:3

[Stijn]

Why is Jazz2 not abandonware? Sure, abandonware is not free, but the term mainly means "games not supported by their creators anymore". I'd say that description fits JJ1/JJ2 pretty well.

[Torkell]

Because JJ2 is still being sold (commercially, not through eBay).

[White Rabbit]

I think JJ2 is abandonware, as are many other games. A lot of people who say that abandonware doesn't exist or is illegal are speaking the truth, but changing its definition from what it really is: abandoned games.

[Stijn]

Because JJ2 is still being sold (commercially, not through eBay).
It is being sold, but not distributed.

[CrimiClown]

I asked at the local 'Videoland', and they can order it. Which means, not abandonware.

[Stijn]

...who the heck is distributing it then? P2 is bankrupt and afaik they were the European publisher... Mysteriesss!

[CrimiClown]

...who the heck is distributing it then? P2 is bankrupt and afaik they were the European publisher... Mysteriesss!
Or... They still have some ancient old copies of JJ2 because nobody wanted to buy them... ;)

[Olsen]

...who the heck is distributing it then? P2 is bankrupt and afaik they were the European publisher... Mysteriesss!

THE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT! CORRUPT I TELL YOU, CORRUPT!

D=

[Robowurmz]

Abandonware is when the companies that made a game collaspse, and therefore no payment can be made to them. So the game is abandoned, and is illegal to sell, as that is theft. The game is (as you said) not freeware. Although some sites still distribute these games.

[Robowurmz]

Oh yeah, I think some internet police should take down (warez)
as they are giving away all abandoned games for FREE.
Bad.
Bad.
Bad.
Bad, and once again, BAD!!!

[Warez edit. Please do not link to warez sites. Yes, abandonware is usually warez. - FQuist]

[Doubble Dutch]

On the other hand, often classified as abandonware are games that just aren't easy to buy or aren't 'popular', the reasoning being that the company has abandonded it. This is even more ileagal, but who cares?

[LittleFreak]

Wait, isn't that what everyone said already Dutchie?

[Grytolle]

No, since some people obviously do care

[LittleFreak]

I was reffering to what DD said, not the article itself. And yes, I care. I bought JJ2. :roll:

[Grytolle]

Selfish?

[LittleFreak]

...

What the duck are you talking about?

[Cdos90]

Contrary to popular belief, "Abandonware" is not Freeware

Quite true. But after a while sometimes(not all the time) a company will release it as freeware, after they figure out that they can't make money off of it anymore. A perfect example of this is OMF(one must fall).

[n00b]

It's obvious that the game is freeware if the company releases it as freeware.

[WerBack3>>]

Well, now the abbandonware is legalized!

[Stijn]

No.

[WerBack3>>]

What?! They said it in the news, I read it in newspapers and magazines (non-tabloid) and the internet is full with info for this!

[Stijn]

Maybe you should read the first post of this thread?

[FQuist]

You might be referring to <a href="http://www.copyright.gov/1201/index.html">this</a> decision. It was broadly misquoted (the reporting is often quite shoddy on copyright issues). Quote:
Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.This is about old classic games for which the media/hardware required to play them is no longer manufactured or "reasonably available" on the marketplace. Jazz Jackrabbit 1 and 2, which plays on PCs, which are still very reasonably available on the marketplace, does not fall under this law. Nor does most popular abandonware, which is avaible on media/consoles which are still easy to get. In addition, it seems to be allowed for archival purposes only, not personal use. The ruling does not mention "Abandonware" since it's not a legal concept and does not exist in any official way. Hence, it can hardly be legalised. <a href="http://digg.com/gaming_news/USA_Legalizes_Abandonware#c4106416">Relevant explanation</a>.

In short, this ruling does not make it legal to distribute or attain Jazz Jackrabbit 1 or 2 without paying for it. The same will *always* count for Jazz Jackrabbit 3 which has never seen an official release.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

In case you haven't, might be a good idea to point this out on the front page.

[FreeFull]

for software(including games) to become free it has to be 80 years old. 80 years ago there were no computers.

[WerBack3>>]

This is a scrap!
Holly Rabbit Mother, do Something!
EPIC hates the JJ series. Why they must be the series owners? Can't they just give us the owning rights (or whatever it's called!)!

[Stijn]

What makes you think they hate the series?

[WerBack3>>]

They don't support them any more, but we're still waiting for patches and Jazz Jackrabbit 3, even if they are paid, and even if they are with high-price. What's wrong with this dudes?

[Stijn]

You obviously do not have the slightest idea how the gaming business, or business in general, works.

Do you also hate id Software for not supporting Commander Keen anymore? Activision for not supporting Pitfall? Jazz Jackrabbit 2 is an old game. After a developer has finished a game, it will support it for a while, but generally after a while it will move on. There are simply no resources to keep committed to an only moderately-selling game for years afterwards while they could be working on new games. Would you not want to move on after working on a game full-time for over a year? Yes, you would.

As for "high-price patches", do you have any idea what it would cost to develop one? Salaries have to be paid too. With the current community, maybe 10 people or so would buy a patch (patches are in fact almost never sold, but freely distributed), which would simply not make it worth it to make one.

As for Jazz Jackrabbit 3, have you actually read anything about the developement process? Epic was pretty impressed with the product, but they could not find a publisher willing to publish the game. Well, that's the end of the product, as games have to be published to make profit on them, which is quite hard without a publisher.

As for the rights, those are divided between several people and companies, so releasing them in the public domain would first require (expensive) lawyers to arrange it all. If Epic would release the rights to the JJ2 characters or game in the public domain, no profitable sequel would ever be possible to create, so they obviously won't do that.

If you would've only spent a little effort to gather information about this all, you wouldn't have made yourself look like a fool by making these replies.

[WerBack3>>]

OK, you've beated me down :blush:

[IJskonIJn]

I got a question about this all,

I'm thinking of making an 'update' of the original levels, (better eyecandy, and solve some mistakes). then i would upload it on jazz2online.
would this be illegal? cause when you don't have the game, you can do nothing with the files.

[KRSplat]

It'd be fine. People upload 'updates' of other JJ2 files all the time. For example, Bob's version of Jazz2.exe.

[Grytolle]

*observes the belgian banner in the signature*

[Kittie Rose]

It's well and good to point out that it's not illegal, it's good to have it clarified with me.

But what I can't stand is people reinforce it it with the sniveling underlying moral tones that a small but prominent few of the replies in this thread have. Illegal != Should be Illegal, not be a long shot. So many people think according to the law, and society's values, without realising it, never reasoning for themselves.

I think Abandonware should be freeware.

Some people are, quite frankly, right wing idiots who have a vendetta against anyone getting anyone for free(probably because it means they can't use annoying little phrases like "There's no such thing as a free lunch" to construct their weak arguments). I'm someone who believes in sharing, I love the philosophy being Linux and it's community even if I'm not a very big part of it due to gaming.

Obviously, a company needs to profit from recent games, it can't just give people games for free or it couldn't and wouldn't exist. But if they're not making money anymore, then why not share it? The rate at which games change and expand, old games become outdated rather quickly. Some stand the test of time better than others, for example Shenmue on the Dreamcast still measures up to a lot of games today. But most don't.

We shouldn't look for cold hard reasons to have things for free, that's silly. If there is no reason for something NOT to be free, it should be. You should only need very good reasons to hurt and limit freedoms, not reasons to provide things that make people happy if it comes as simply as allow them to be copied.

I hate people who get a kick out of saying "It's STILL Illegal", because unless you're just laying down rules for the forum so there's no legal trouble, we really don't need to hear it.

[Odin]

Yeah uhh

No one here's going to stop you if you pirate abandonware. Go ahead and do it.

There's tons of abandonware titles out there that people could give two (-)s if you pirate or not. The only people here who care whether or not you have the Jazz 3D Alpha are people who would go nuts if they caught you jaywalking.

Is it illegal? Technically, yes. Is it morally wrong to "steal" something whose owners have given up on? That's debatable.

Abandonware is basically the crime of stealing a TV from the city dump, except it's blown out of proportion by people who can't wrap their head around the concept that laws aren't necessarily set in stone.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

One law broken leads to another, and another, and at sometime you break a whole slew of them.

I agree on your abandonware point of view, but I just can't stab my conscience in the heart. Trust me, I wish I could.

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

I think Abandonware should be freeware.

Some people are, quite frankly, right wing idiots who have a vendetta against anyone getting anyone for free(probably because it means they can't use annoying little phrases like "There's no such thing as a free lunch" to construct their weak arguments). I'm someone who believes in sharing, I love the philosophy being Linux and it's community even if I'm not a very big part of it due to gaming.

Obviously, a company needs to profit from recent games, it can't just give people games for free or it couldn't and wouldn't exist. But if they're not making money anymore, then why not share it? The rate at which games change and expand, old games become outdated rather quickly. Some stand the test of time better than others, for example Shenmue on the Dreamcast still measures up to a lot of games today. But most don't.


One might consider that just because something isn't currently supported that it doesn't mean that it won't be supported in the future, perhaps through a re-release on an alternate system. How should this change the company's ability to still make a profit off their IP?

[Odin]

One law broken leads to another, and another, and at sometime you break a whole slew of them.

I agree on your abandonware point of view, but I just can't stab my conscience in the heart. Trust me, I wish I could.

This isn't smoking pot. This is taking a TV from the city dump.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

But it LEADS to pot.

Look, it's the only way I can stop myself for banging up the inside of my head for being stupid. I already said I wish I didn't think this way, but I do.

[Dermo]

I saw one abandonware website that had jj2 on it. It was version 1.00g. This wasn't shareware and I know for a fact it's neither abandon ware or freeware.

What do I do?

[Odin]

I saw one abandonware website that had jj2 on it. It was version 1.00g. This wasn't shareware and I know for a fact it's neither abandon ware or freeware.

What do I do?

Take it. One more version of JJ2 to add to your collection!

Seriously though, if you want to report it, go talk to Epic Games.

[Dermo]

I already have that version lol and I don't wanna get them in serious lawsuit type trouble I just want the site shut down. What do I do?

[Torkell]

Tell their host. Webhosts (except for the very good ones) tend to shoot first, and then not bother asking questions.

[Lavitz]

hey i used to play jj2 alot. I want to come back and play but i no longer have a copy of the game. can anyone help me out?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Which do you want: A legal, or illegal version?

Illegally, we can't help.

Legally, I'd reccomend checking Amazon.(com/ca/de/co.uk/jp/etc.) Unless you live in Canada, in which case you'd be best checking ebay. Actually, if the version you want isn't there, check ebay.

[Brian]

I think there's one or two things that might be worth clearing up. First off, copyright on a particular item doesn't last for 70 years, it lasts for "the life of the author, plus 70 years." That's a common misconception about copyright. So basically as long as the people who worked on JJ2 are still alive, the 70 years for copyright hasn't even started yet. (the law states that if multiple people work on a project, the 70 years starts after the last surviving member dies)

For "works for hire" (which I suspect JJ2 might fall under), copyright is for 95 years from the date of publish, or 120 years from the date of creation.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hlc

It's a government site so it must be true! Anyway, a lot of people seem to think that an exception needs to be made for computer related software, since a computer creation that lasts for 70+ years is a bit absurd. But so long as they don't change it, that's still the law!

Now about abandonware. I feel that JJ2 is abandonware. It's still not legal to download (without official word that Epic is making it freeware), but it is abandonware in my mind. I always figured that abandonware was after the publisher/creator stopped supporting and selling it. Epic's website doesn't have any information on JJ2 anymore, and only a link to a site called Epic Classics, which supposedly still sells it. But Epic says that they aren't affiliated with Epic Classics, take no responsibility for what that company does, and do not support those games anymore. That strikes me as a company that has "abandoned" their game, thus it's "abandonware."

Take 3d Realms on the other hand. They still provide downloads for their games from their website (for games as far back as Commander Keen for example). Not to mention that you can still buy these games directly from the 3d Realms site. Those games strike me as not being abandoned, even if they aren't still updated.

Now it would be nice if Epic would retain the copyright for JJ2 and its characters, but release it as freeware, since they can't be making money off of it anymore. Epic did that with Castle of the Winds. I had one of the CotW developers email me CotW Part 2 for free, because Epic released it as freeware. I still have it to this day. :-) It would be nice if Epic did that with JJ2, but honestly I don't think that they even want to spend their time to just say it's freeware. Unreal has always been their cash cow, and I doubt that will ever change.

Out of curosity, has anyone ever ordered from Epic Classics? http://www.epicclassics.com/orderform.html I'm curious if it still works or not, given their site looks like it hasn't been updated in years (according to the <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.epicclassics.com/orderform.html">Wayback Machine</a>.

[Jerrythabest]

Epic Classics doesn't sell Jazz Jackrabbit 2, only JJ1. So that makes it even more abandonware: it's only available on ebay and amazon, most of the copies there being OEM versions, which you can't sell legally.

Let's not advertise here, Jerry. -Bob

[KRSplat]

the JJ2 community should sue JJ3D makers for including a tavern

[Dermo]

Lets say you purchased a copy of 1.23. Assuming you still have full ownership of all parts of that CD you COULD TECHNICALLY legally download it depending on the national laws.

Thinking about it IF j2o REALLY WANTED TO, they COULD put Jazz Jackrabbit 2 for download. Depending on the coutry, of course. I believe it's hosted in US but I could be wrong. I'm not sure of the US laws but if memory serves me right this is what they could do.

First, they upload it to rapidshare (http://www.rapidshare.com) or megaupload (http://www.megaupload.com) or mooload (http://www.mooload.com) or any of those free file hosting services. Now what they could do is put the download link. Then post a disclaimer similar to the following:

Disclaimer



We do NOT encourage piracy. These links are intended for backup purpose only. Do NOT download any hosted files if you do NOT own the original CD.

All parts of the jazz2online's website are for private use only. No files are hosted on our server, they are only indexed much like how Google works. This site merely indexes of other sites’ contents. The hosting server or the administrator cannot be held responsible for the contents of any linked sites or any link contained in a linked site, or changes / updates to such sites. All materials on this website is for Educational Purposes ONLY. If you’re member of any anti-piracy, government, corporation or related group or organization (including, but not limited to, Microsoft, Template Monster, IPB/Invision Power/vBulletin/Jelsoft, FBI, Epic Mega Games, Orange Studios, etc.) you cannot enter this site and view any of site contents. If you are unsure, email : (insert admin's email here) asking for access before entering. If you enter this site and do not agree with current terms you can not provide any treatment of our hosting ISPs, organization or any persons storing this site information because your actions will be estimated as violation code no. 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act from 1995.


I believe that YES you very well COULD upload jj2. That would never happen though and I don't really think it should since all the pirates would be downloading from here in a heartbeat. It wouldn't be right to do that since people would be downloading instead of paying epic it might even be thought of as stealing from Epic. I just wanted to make it clear that jj2 CAN be put up for download it's just immoral and I wouldn't dare do it out of moral values. But I think it could be done. :/

[Jerrythabest]

*waits for FQuist to tell us he dun it*

...lol...

[Dermo]

LOL! like that'll ever happen.

[cooba]

Do NOT download any hosted files if you do NOT own the original CD.I'm sure everyone will heed that message.

:roll:

[Jerrythabest]

Disclaimers and License agreements are there to remain unread. Have you ever read the EULA of any program you wanted to install?

[Dermo]

no...LOL!

I copied and pasted one once for a product of mine lol. I didn't even read it. I just did a search for their product's name and replaced it with that of my own and changed the first couple of sentences to make it say that it's freeware. But never actually read past the intro ROFL!

[Speeza]

Zinster says

CENSORED , we don't hold responsibility over them tho the only one who does is the downloader them self the iso's are strictly for backup copy's only , so don't go reporting , because chances are very high that there all found the web

lol a guy from my website put this :D

I think this is the best excuse ever XD

[Dermo]

ROFL zinster is THE MAN!

He holds a good point too.

[LOLZ84]

This is what I have to say about this:

I do NOT promote software piracy in anyway or form. But it is not like you are going to download a full version and get arrested by the police and end up having to pay a fine or lose 10 years of your lifetime. I mean, seriously. The only way you would get something like that if you copied the game and gave it to other people without permission of the company. (Otherwise: "distributing the game") You aren't gonna get arrested if you just download it and nothing else, and not copy or distribute it. However, if you DO copy and distribute it, then your going get arrested. Companies tend to sue sites more than people. It's just too difficult because there are so many people out there.

Again, I do NOT endorse software piracy, But it is still illegal to distribute full version games. Even if it is considered "abandonware", you can still get arrested for distributing it. You will not get arrested if you only download the game and do nothing else at ALL. But you WILL if you distribute the game online.

END OF TRANSMISSION

[Bboy Type7]

I pirate games all the time. torrents, rapidshare, megaupload, etc. It's way better than buying those junk off a store. i even dled jj2 and jj1 from pirate sites too. Don't care.

[LOLZ84]

I pirate games all the time. torrents, rapidshare, megaupload, etc. It's way better than buying those junk off a store. i even dled jj2 and jj1 from pirate sites too. Don't care.

Whatever. I don't mind if you download that stuff. I'm just saying this little message to all of those who are worried about getting arrested for downloading these kind of things.

[n00b]

rapidshare, megaupload, etc. It's way better than buying those junk off a store..

Really. Having to pay 25 bucks a month in order to reasonably download things from a website, or not pay and take the span of about 2 days to download a movie (or even a week with the latest PC game releases) is much better than taking a ten minute drive to an in real life store, pick up a game, pay for it, and then take a ten minute drive back. Or the 3-4 minutes it takes to buy something online off of Amazon.com or a download service like Steam or iTunes.

The only thing thats above buying something from a store (online or not) is torrenting, everything else is just not worth the extra effort.

Thats why I say YES to pirating, and NO to pirating through lousy file upload sites.

[LOLZ84]

N00b's got a point there. Besides, there are guidelines and rules on those sites that say that you CANNOT under ANY circumstances, upload copyrighted material that must be purchased on to those sites.

[Nonomu198]

Really. Having to pay 25 bucks a month in order to reasonably download things from a website, or not pay and take the span of about 2 days to download a movie (or even a week with the latest PC game releases) is much better than taking a ten minute drive to an in real life store, pick up a game, pay for it, and then take a ten minute drive back. Or the 3-4 minutes it takes to buy something online off of Amazon.com or a download service like Steam or iTunes.

The only thing thats above buying something from a store (online or not) is torrenting, everything else is just not worth the extra effort.

Thats why I say YES to pirating, and NO to pirating through lousy file upload sites.
Not everyone own a car/can drive a car, It's can be half to a two hours drive at times, and you forgat about money. The "latest PC game releases" are quite exepensive, and seeing that I have no job downloading them might be easier.

Besides, there are guidelines and rules on those sites that say that you CANNOT under ANY circumstances, upload copyrighted material that must be purchased on to those sites.

That's just what makes it so ileagel :confused:

[n00b]

The "latest PC game releases" are quite exepensive, and seeing that I have no job downloading them might be easier.

This all depends on where you live of course (I know in Brazil in particular that purchasing extremely cheap pirated goods is a way of life because at retail games go for about the equivalent 250$ US dollars or around that price) but considering Bboy's location (it is confirmed he lives in California) I still say that using Gametap, Steam, or Amazon.com would be easier than waiting a week or more downloading 70 rar files off of rapidshare.

[Dermo]

I use a bypass. It's called a premium link generator.

[n00b]

The problem with those is that they're down most of the time unless you're hosting it yourself.

[Dermo]

I found something quite interesting. Isn't posted by the Jazz Community. It's posted by some warez uploaders. Can somebody who knows the procedure to reporting this please PM me? I'm gonna be the douchebag who removes the files...

[SpyroTheDragon]

Where does "OpenJazz" stand in all of this?

[Hare]

OpenJazz is in the clear since it doesn't use any of the resources from the registered version, if I understand correctly. You have to provide those yourself :).

[linuxfan66]

Can i point out this thread is almost useless due to virtually all valid new supplies for jazz 1 are gone(hazes hideout and epic classics), and jazz 2 new supplies are virutally gone...well least the ones your legitimate buying guide.(outside of overpriced used copies and i would suggest updating that. and a single 60+ copy on amazon). The plush supplier is also dead.

[ShadowGPW]

Can i point out this thread is almost useless due to virtually all valid new supplies for jazz 1 are gone(hazes hideout and epic classics), and jazz 2 new supplies are virutally gone...well least the ones your legitimate buying guide.(outside of overpriced used copies and i would suggest updating that. and a single 60+ copy on amazon). The plush supplier is also dead.

As long if Epic says nothing or doesn't give us the permission for it. We cannot do anything.. except wait for 60 more years. Then the copyright expires.

[Love & Thunder]

Jazz 2 is actually very easy to find on places like eBay, which -- although you won't get a new copy -- is better than nothing. Jazz 1 doesn't appear as often, but you can still get it if you keep an eye out.
Both tend to be reasonably priced if you know where/how to look.
As for Haze's Hideout, parts of it still remain (http://www.dutchfurs.com/~haze/files/).

[ShadowGPW]

Jazz 2 is actually very easy to find on places like eBay, which -- although you won't get a new copy -- is better than nothing. Jazz 1 doesn't appear as often, but you can still get it if you keep an eye out.
Both tend to be reasonably priced if you know where/how to look.
As for Haze's Hideout, parts of it still remain (http://www.dutchfurs.com/~haze/files/).

i've asked haze to revive his site.. :P

[Treylina]

They're not getting money from second hand copies. They took quick action against some unofficial Jazz game, yet haven't bothered with the abandonware sites, and others have asked about if they mind...it shows I don't think they care. But would I buy if TSF was redistributed though? Yes.

"B-but it's the law!" The whole "point" against piracy is that the company loses money. But with a game being out of print, they won't be gaining money either way. It's Epic's responsibility to redistribute it and game distribution is easier than ever nowadays.

TL;DR: People will pirate the less available a product is, and I hope this shakes the attention that Epic should either just make it freeware, or put it on GOG.

[Love & Thunder]

I'm sure they'll release it eventually. Especially with retro games being more and more in as time goes on.

Although, that is what I thought before the 20th anniversary of the first game last year, so it might still be a while off. :L

[Primpy]

As long if Epic says nothing or doesn't give us the permission for it. We cannot do anything.. except wait for 60 more years. Then the copyright expires.

I'm pretty sure it expires after more than 60 years after author's death. That's heck a lot of time, maybe our grandchildren will take the copyright and make a Jazz Jackrabbit game.

"B-but it's the law!" The whole "point" against piracy is that the company loses money. But with a game being out of print, they won't be gaining money either way. It's Epic's responsibility to redistribute it and game distribution is easier than ever nowadays.

I'm sure they'll release it eventually. Especially with retro games being more and more in as time goes on.

Although, that is what I thought before the 20th anniversary of the first game last year, so it might still be a while off. :L


I have doubts about Epic not releasing JJ and JJ2 for free already. If they know that it can't make money anymore, what's the point of not releasing it? Same thing to the source. But yeah, all we can do is to wait and see what happens :l

[Alberto]

Wished it was easy to get. I would be interested on getting Christmas chronicles and the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 purple box that includes Jazz 1..

[Treylina]

Waiting for 70+ years is just too much and unrealistic. Many people will forget and pass away by then. Jazz is nowhere near that level of a legacy, as it's only held on by a close-knit dedicated community. And I bet it'll get extended even more so Disney can hold onto Mickey (that exactly why free domain has been extended so much).

[SAMI]

I would like epic to release JJ2 HD which supports dynamic lighting and high resolution sprites etc etc and release it on steam, keeping the gameplay intact.

[Treylina]

But they'd have to invest quite a bit and spend time prior beforehand, which I don't see happening (they would think it won't sell, thus not worth the effort). Not to mention the source code may be missing. Redisributing jj2 as it is requires minimal, if not any investment.

[Primpy]

I would like epic to release JJ2 HD which supports dynamic lighting and high resolution sprites etc etc and release it on steam, keeping the gameplay intact.

But they'd have to invest quite a bit and spend time prior beforehand, which I don't see happening (they would think it won't sell, thus not worth the effort). Not to mention the source code may be missing. Redisributing jj2 as it is requires minimal, if not any investment.

Treylina is right. Of course, it's a great idea indeed, but looks like Epic is not interested in Jazz Jackrabbit anymore and that would require investment. Why would they spend time remaking an old game instead of making a new game?

Trey, missing source code? Why do you think so?

[SAMI]

A shame then. But who knows if anyone would like JJ2 now a days except Fanboy/girls of JJ2. Maybe its actually not worth investing for 200 copies.

But worst case will be if they ruin the game. For example: House of Dead Overkill just ruined the whole series. Better not to have a rotten game.

[Seren]

Maybe its actually not worth investing for 200 copies.
I'd say safely 5000. (http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/jazz_jackrabbit_2_1)

[Love & Thunder]

Honestly, I think that's at least half of what the actual sales would be if they re-released it.

Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but given how many people who played the game at some point back in the '90s or early 2000s, and how many people would hear about it if Epic started releasing their older games starting with Jazz, I think it would sell really well. Especially when you think about all the game journalists who played it way back when, who would report on it.

[Logface202]

aren't there 2 jazz3 demos?

publisher test and public test?

[Darkhog]

No, only publisher test. It didn't go past that. The publisher test was leaked though. I've played it though and it is a HUGE departure from JJ1/JJ2 and not very fun. It's more akin to Zelda than JJ.

I think JJ needs to get Sonic Utopia treatment, though I don't know of any modelers and animators that would be up for the task (my modeling skills are limited and so in my "real" game I am using flatshaded polygons, the only things I'd be able to contribute is coding and level design).

Of course if anyone is willing, they can contact me via PM (the project won't use any art or code of JJ3 demo so it won't be more legally hazardous than any fangame is).

[Love & Thunder]

He is right that there are two Jazz 3 demos, though.

IIRC, the easiest way to tell them apart is that one of them doesn't say "Welcome to Jazz Jackrabbit 3-D!" on the opening title screen.

[Will]

I still have my oem version, albeit a rotted disc.

[Seren]

I just re-read with the opening post and realized it contains some misinformation in the first two sections.
To put it bluntly, everything you create is protected by law to prevent others from copying your creations.
Most things are, however certain creations are not subject to copyright protection, e.g. ideas, names and titles, factual or false information, game mechanics, game show formats, and, with some caveats, fashion and food. That soup you cooked yesterday? Not copyright-protected, even if you made it from scratch according to your own recipe.
That goes for anything, down to the little pencil you draw with.
Not sure what this is meant to imply, but obviously copyright doesn't protect tools you create something with or I would now be a copyright holder of MS Paint. If somebody uses your pencil without your knowledge, they aren't breaking copyright laws.
If another company wants to use your creations commercially, they'd have to pay licensing fees or "royalties".
If anybody wants to use your copyright-protected creations, period, they need your permission to do so. It doesn't matter whether the use is commercial or not, or whether it's a company or a single person. The only exception to this is provided by fair use laws and protects material such as commentary, research, criticism, and parody. Among other things, unlicensed fan art is illegal. Including all pictures of Jazz in our art forum that don't follow fan content policy of Epic Games by accompanying the work with the following disclaimer: "Portions of the materials used are trademarks and/or copyrighted works of Epic Games, Inc. All rights reserved by Epic. This material is not official and is not endorsed by Epic."
However, a special kind of software is "freeware": free to use software, no obligations, free to spread around. The original company still holds the rights to the designs, but not the content.
No. The only requirement to call something freeware is that it doesn't cost money to acquire and use. Just because it's free doesn't grant you the right to "spread it around", i.e. you're still not allowed to copy or redistribute the software without permission from the author (which, however, is in this case often granted, in the form of a license, but may limit how you do it, e.g. you always have to include all files and give credit when redistributing the work). The original author still holds all rights guaranteed by copyright law, both to designs and content. For example, just because a game is freeware does not allow you to reverse-engineer it. In fact the only way to lose copyright protection is to let it expire, or in legal systems that support it, donate the work to public domain. Typically what creators do instead is distribute their work under a very liberal license, which is an action that doesn't actually rid them of any rights... just grants everyone else the right to circumvent them.

[luke11685]

I do NOT promote software piracy in anyway or form. But it is not like you are going to download a full version and get arrested by the police and end up having to pay a fine or lose 10 years of your lifetime.
Well companies like Nintendo might just remove as pc fangame remake of old IP video games so it's copyrights violation. As I know if author lawsuits someone three copyrights strikes causes money penalty.When buying licence is legal publisher have to deal with copyright agencies and have budget to buy/sell licence to negotiate with manufacturers. I was reading about it in some ebook about copyrights.

[Darkhog]

Yeah, but Nintendo is an exception, not the norm. Usually, it doesn't make sense to fight devs of fangames unless they try to sell these.

[luke11685]

Fangames distribution are illegal, right? It's not only related to another metroid 2 remake, but also about abandonware pc games like jazz jackrabbit.

[Darkhog]

Technically, they are. However the costs of legal pursuit vastly overshadows any potential profits such endeavor would bring to the company suing. Especially for such dead IP like JJ is (and I'll consider it dead until Epic starts actually doing something meaningful with it again outside Fortnite easter eggs and vague tweets).

Nintendo, as I've said, is an exception, not the norm. They can afford the loses legal actions against youtubers and fan creators it would bring them (well, financial ones, at least) so they're doing for some inane reason. And before someone brings up Japanese copyright law, well, Capcom and Sega are Japanese companies as well and they're not involved in such BS.

I don't think Nintendo will be able to do it forever though. Eventually the PR loss of such moves will start driving people away from their products and towards those of their competitors who aren't doing that copywrong idiocy.