Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Source Code FAQ & Myths

[FQuist]

Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Source code FAQ & Myths

There is a lot of misinformation occuring regarding the future of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 and its source code. The writing of this FAQ was directly triggered by a discussion in a server but is not written because of this discussion, but because it became more apparant than it already was that such a faq was needed.

Frequently asked questions

What is the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Source Code?

Any game is made out of several parts, one of which is the programming code (others are sprites, sounds, etc.). The code is what is needed to get the program to function. The "Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Source Code" is the code that, when compiled, creates Jazz2.exe. When you have access to the source code, you can easily modify a game with additional features and bug fixes. Without it, you can modify a game, but without being able to see the original code, only what the code resulted in, which is harder to modify, since it does not contain the clarity of the source code.

<i>Why are we talking about this?</i>

Very little games, a huge minority, have their source code released. There are a few games that are free and open source from the start, which are modified by anyone who wishes to. This way communities create their own games, outside of companies. To see why the source code of JJ2 is being talked about so much is part a history lesson.

Epic Games, the publisher of Jazz Jackrabbit 2, and Orange Games, which created the code for Jazz Jackrabbit 2, mostly stopped supporting the game after a few patches. The game, which was rushed in the end, with some odds and ends left, only went up to version 1.23. The 1.23 patch is the only patch people bother installing, and the released versions are usually 1.21 or 1.22. That's not a whole lot of patches. This is not talking about TSF, which runs the engine version 1.24, which had some improvements, mainly regarding tileset sizes and a new character.

Initially, there were plans for more patches, but for some reason these were discontinued. On a prod by a developer/Epic person (Jeh I think), webmaster StevenT of Jazz Central in the old days created a page (props for anyone who digs it up in the Wayback Machine) in which people could submit suggestions for a new patch. This page caught on but obviously no patch was ever made.

FQuist, a community member then involved with a few relatively unpopular fansites, had both developers of Jazz 2 on his ICQ list, and occassionally talked to them. In one of the conversations, in the days they weren't as busy as now, Michiel Ouwehand (coder of the multiplayer code (or at least the 'netcode') for Jazz Jackrabbit) said that he was interested in releasing the source code, and he felt Orange Games should send a few lawyers to Epic Games sometime to arrange it. FQuist is not the only source for this information, similar sentiments were later made to other community members which confirm Orange Games' interest in releasing the source code.

Nothing ever happened with it, but this shows that on Orange Games', the developer of the source code's side, there has been true interest in releasing the source code. These events, and several hoaxes, and the holy grail feeling that resonates from the '1.25' thing, have caused the constant interest in the release of the source code by the community.

So what happened?

Lots of things happened. One of the most important perhaps is the use by Orange Games and later Lost Boys Games (see next question) of the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 engine (earlier on also used in Battery Check) in other projects, one being a game for a dutch milk company. It is suggested that the active use of the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 engine made the release of the source code harder, because it was still being used to commercial advantage for its company. Michiel/Arjan (one of them, possibly both) said that they had to wait until things 'quieted down' with releasing the source. Then contact with the developers got more sloppy.. one reason being: (read on to next question)

What happened to Orange Games?

The Earlong Royal Encyclopedia on Orange Games might help out here:

Orange Games is the company that, together with Epic Megagames (now called Epic Games), created Jazz Jackrabbit 2. Orange Games was responsible for all game code, including the engine. All game content like graphics was created mostly by freelancers hired by Epic Megagames. Later, Orange Games was merged into Lost Boys Games. Lost Boys Games has now merged with another gaming company and has become Guerrilla Games (Games division of the Media Republic company). In December 2005 (news was announced at the 8th) Guerilla Games was acquired by Sony Computer Entertainment.

Orange Games was led by Arjan Brussee, now Development Director at Guerrilla Games. Besides Jazz Jackrabbit 1 and Jazz Jackrabbit 2 they have done several other projects, like Battery Check, which uses the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 engine. Early in 2005 Guerilla games published their first FPS game called Killzone. Killzone is a derivative of the Core project they have worked on ever since they finished Jazz2.

The personell of Orange Games has obviously been thrown around a lot, and they've been very busy with new projects and growing as a company. This makes contact hard, and lessens the interest in this community from their side. There *has* been interest, though. Arjan and Michiel were scheduled to visit a community meeting, even, but something got inbetween. Arjan and Michiel have semi-regularly talked to ShadowGPW and FQuist, and have asked FQuist to 'bother them more'.

What is Epic Games' opinion on releasing the source code?

Epic Games seems to have a sympathetic standpoint towards releasing the source code. They have not, ever, explicitly, claimed to not favouring a release.

What followed after the announcement of the 'imminent' release of the Source Code by Michiel Ouwehand?
Or: What is the history of the 1.25 council?

The 1.25 council was established by Roaster and FQuist (I think). The council, officially 'led' by these two, invited knowledgable and influential people in the community to convene about what should happen when the source was released. Its centre is a hidden forum on the JCF. List of bugs and feature requests were collected, and a general direction for future development was set. While the council is inofficial and unrecognised by the developers, as most of the important members of the community are in it, its influence is not entirely trivial, and its forum contains more information (on bugs, what causes them, features, and source code/community history) than you'll find at the rest of the forum.

As of 2010, the council no longer really exists and the forum is inactive. Development of JJ2 features is mainly centered around jj2+ (/jj2plus/) nowadays.

How do I get into the council?

The council is inactive and does not accept new members at this time.<!--Ask FQuist. Give him a good reason (two being: you have worked with figuring out bugs/you have a lot of vision) and maybe you'll find yourself having access.-->

[FQuist]

Facts & Myths:

MYTH: The source code will never be released

FACT: People at both involved companies have displayed interest from a slight interest to a large interest, and this is more than can be said about the majority of PC games. It is obvious that there is interest by individuals to release it, but there is a lack of contact between the involved and a lack of time and ambition. Saying that Epic Games has vowed to never release it is not supported by any statement made at any time ever (afaik).

MYTH: The source code will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars/euros/etc

FACT: The source code would most likely cost nothing. No such thing as the above has ever been said by any genuinely involved individual at any time ever. This would possibly hold true for Jazz Jackrabbit 3, which uses a commercial, expensive, engine (The Unreal Engine) with a license that costs thousands and thousands of euros, but this engine is not used by Jazz Jackrabbit 2. The Jazz Jackrabbit engine is old, and is losing its commercial value quickly. Asking a lot of money for it would just mean it would never get utilised, which is not in the interest of any company.

MYTH: We have to collect money to buy the source code

FACT: This is an irresponsible and useless thing to do until a monetary sum is specified by the involved individuals. Most likely, the source code will cost nothing, and *if* they would ever charge they would not charge in the region that a few hundred usually underage fans could afford (unless it's just costs for the trouble, like lawyer costs, which would be presumptious to collect for right now already) .

MYTH: The source code is of no use

FACT: The community has a history of modding Jazz Jackrabbit 2 through external tools, and lately through editing the JJ2 assembly code. There's been a large amount of tools. Many features that were once considered pipe dreams are now available though JJ2+ (/jj2plus). However, access to the original source code would make integrating and adding new features easier, as no reverse engineering would be required and developers would have a better sense of what they can and cannot do on top of the base game. It would also be interesting to be able to look at unfinished or hidden features that are hinted at by e.g. the contents of Anims.j2a; how would the Tweedle boss have worked? Is there anything left of the planned 3D bonus stages? Such content would be interesting if nothing else, and could perhaps be developed into a working feature.

Additionally, as there are very little opensource platformers, having the source would give the community a boost, in that it would attract new people. Currently the wells are pretty dry, but open source applications everywhere attract attention from coders who love to hack away with code.

MYTH: We already have the source code, in the form of decompiled code/editing the compiled files

FACT: The source code contains logic and information that make it exponentially easier to edit the game. There are very interesting things you can do (as shown by Unknownfile's "1.25" project (link)) with just editing the game without the source, but you'll have to set aside a lot of time if you ever want to fix the more complex bugs or - god forbid - add features.

[FQuist]

This is mostly a draft I made a while back, it will be improved and edited later. I've not had time to work on it recently. Constructive suggestions are welcome. Destructive complaining, off-topic replies and tired debates are not.

I didn't proof-read it a lot so if you find something that is wrong please correct.

The topic name-drops me a bit improportionally, but that's mostly because.. I was kind of the guy who was central to getting the meme out there.

[UNKNOWNFILE]

And for those curious, the JJ2 source code was written in Visual C++.

[White Rabbit]

IMO a better name:

JJ2 Source Code FAQ: Facts and Myths <s>revealed! Free A3 fold-out included. Only £2.99.</s>

Also, the answer of the second question should instead be something like 'To understand why the source code of JJ2 is being talked about so much requires a bit of history...', with the '...' being there to add some excitement. :p

[Doubble Dutch]

Very little games, a huge minority, have their source code released

Thats the first time I've heard of a huge minority; is it liek dark light or millitary inteligence?

[Speeza]

fact i know someone with the sorce code so screw you oh uh sounded a bit mean here have a free cup

[UNKNOWNFILE]

fact im getting sick of your insults because they suck oops sounded mean have a free copy of jazz3d

[ThunderPX]

Fact: You are lying, jamster. Have a nice day ^_^

[Super_Jarno]

Fact: You are lying, jamster. Have a nice day ^_^
:lol: :lol:

[MSB3000]

fact i know someone with the sorce code so screw you oh uh sounded a bit mean here have a free cup

I don't play baseball D=

[ShadeJackrabbit]

fact i know someone with the sorce code so screw you oh uh sounded a bit mean here have a free cup
You obviously didn't read the first two posts.

[Doubble Dutch]

He did, but they used big words.

[Grytolle]

fact im getting sick of your insults because they suck oops sounded mean have a free copy of jazz3dGet it here for free (http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/info.php?levelID=21)

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Lol.

[ultramecha]

Trying to get the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Source Code is pointless. Its so much easier to program your own Jazz Jackrabbit game using game maker systems, I have the tools to program games, not only that I know how to program games using such programs like Java and Visual C++ and even Delphi 6. I have an awesome game development program that is not only free to the public but as endless possibilities. I've created many 2d and some 3d games with this tool. There are tons of game creation tools, but this one is the best, it’s called "Game Maker" Easy to use once you've read the book, it has its own programming language but it’s based of Delphi 6. And you can make a game better than Jazz 2 people! Heck we could make a Jazz 3d with this! Anyways if anyone wants more info, I have a lot of experience with this software. Also if you don’t like Game Maker there is also another site with a crap load of game creation tools www.thegamecreators.com loads of game development tools. My site will host a variety of all game creating software all at one site, I'll keep yall posted

-Ultramecha

[Violet CLM]

There are tons of game creation tools, but this one is the best,
Opinion. But not the place for discussion. Keep Gamemaker to your own thread.

[Marijn]

Oke, Go make a game then!
But you will show some more before try to get people in your "team" or what your are doing...
Try to make a demo then! Good luck :D

[NovaStar]

Trying to get the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Source Code is pointless. Its so much easier to program your own Jazz Jackrabbit game using game maker systems, I have the tools to program games, not only that I know how to program games using such programs like Java and Visual C++ and even Delphi 6.
-Ultramecha

Do you have enough money to pay Epic Games and Orange and all the alive creators of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 when you get sued?

[Odin]

Do you have enough money to pay Epic Games and Orange and all the alive creators of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 when you get sued?

This whole concept has been brought up and debunked in another thread. Don't bring it here.

[sonicnathan 1]

Really. It's pointless trying to get the source code. I've tried. They say it's not for sail. And you right it is just easier to make it in gamemaker.

You lost me at hello

[NovaStar]

Pleeeeeease don't revive threads without good reason. So what, Epic may not release it now. But in the future, keyword, FUTURE, they may or may not, you never know. And just because only one person tried doesn't mean it's useless -_-

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Now if we only had a TARDIS...

[sonicnathan 1]

If only we had what? Ya your right. But another key word is far into the future?

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Then a TARDIS would be of very much help.

(*Suddenly notices that nobody knows what he's talking about*)

Check wikipedia.

[Papi]

Sorry if I make Spam,but I have a really important question:

Do you people have Jazz Jack Rabbit 3 ?
If you have it.....excelent......,if not i'll tell you how to get Jazz 3 FULL!

[Birdie]

JJ3 is illegal to posess although many people in the community have it, distribution of it is also illegal.

[Papi]

Why it's illegal? :rainbow:

[Birdie]

It was privately released and was not mean't to be distributed to anyone but the people it was originaly intended to.

[Papi]

So,now i have to unistall it?

[PurpleJazz]

That would be the right thing to do.

[Heretic Bunny]

But Epic stopped caring about it a while ago, so you don't really NEED to... ;)

[FQuist]

You would need to in order to abide by the law. This has been explicitly requested not just by Epic but by the team of people who made Jazz3 without getting any compensation for it.

[VashTheStampede]

your wiki is wrong about battery check.. it is not impossible to get a copy, i have 2 different versions... beta, and finished

and no, you can't have them, i promised Viper i wouldn't share it.

[Papi]

i have it .really.don't make me tell you how.....

[ThunderPX]

your wiki is wrong about battery check.. it is not impossible to get a copy, i have 2 different versions... beta, and finished

and no, you can't have them, i promised Viper i wouldn't share it.

It's freeware now >_>

[Violet CLM]

Betaaaaaaa?

[n00b]

your wiki is wrong about battery check.. it is not impossible to get a copy, i have 2 different versions... beta, and finished

and no, you can't have them, i promised Viper i wouldn't share it.

Which is ironic, because I gave Viper the full version willingly and said "Share this as much as you want".

[Dermo]

With Battery Check now freeware will the source code for Battery Check be given out? Somebody should send Epic a formal email/letter asking for Battery Check's source. If we can get that it'll be further then we've ever gotten to unlocking some insights of Jazz Jackrabbit 2.

[Birdie]

The Copyright on the engine still applies, so it won't be released unfortunately.

[Bobby aka Dizzy]

I also don't believe that Epic had anything to do with Battery Check unless I'm mistaken.

[Grytolle]

The Copyright on the engine still applies, so it won't be released unfortunately.Not to mention that there's no reason a freeware game should automatically be open source

[Jerrythabest]

Betaaaaaaa?

He meant the demo ;p

[BattleSpaz]

Star Control 2 were a great game. As a gift to fans, creators released the source code. The Ur-Quan masters, a free port of it to newer windows with voice acting and stuff were made. People have also modded it ALOT.
This is an example what a company can do to amuse their fans.

JJ2 creators may someday release it <s>When it's done</s>. Then there might be some people to remake JJ2 to new glory.
But if JJ comes to Xbox live arcade, I think it wont be released before that...

Excuse me for this random reply, wich I felt to write... ^^'

[Dermo]

Ok here's a question you should add. Is it true that you can download a copy of JJ3 if you have legally bought a copy of Unreal since you have paid for the engine that JJ3 runs on?

Well that's my question.

[Torkell]

Nope.

While you have paid for the engine, you haven't paid for any of the other content (graphics, models, sounds, levels, music, etc.). The engine may also be a customised one.

(a similar situation is with the Quake 3 engine. The source code to the Quake 3 engine is freely available, but none of the data is).

[PyRRamid]

I have the JJ2 source code. Can be sold for 45.000 EUR with no possibility of sharing it.

Contact me! Send me a personal message!

[Jerrythabest]

That's almost €45.000,01! That's awful!


The only community member who would be believed if he claimed to have the source code is Neobeo, AFAIK.

[Grytolle]

J2NSM has the code, which Neobeo already stated some month ago.

[Jerrythabest]

...You are not Neobeo, so I don't believe you. I can't find where he stated that either.

[Dermo]

God if Neo has the source code then why the hell am I still unpacking Jazz Jackrabbit 2 when all I friggin have to do is ask Neo how certain flags and bytes are arranged and why?

[Neobeo]

J2NSM has the code, which Grytolle already re-stated some hours ago.

[Birdie]

Why is it that everyone trusts Neobeo more than gry?

[Dermo]

Well it's cuz Neo was a direct source and Gry was a 2ndary source.

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Go primary sources!

[FreeFull]

As if Neobeo would give something like that to public.

[Jerrythabest]

So.. what is J2NSM going to do with it then? And why are you still working on the dedictated server if you can actually build such a thing directly into JJ2?

[Grytolle]

J2NSM (much like God) works in mysterious ways.

[Dermo]

Right now i'm seeing this whole J2NSM as a prank rumor that somebody started just to get us (jj2 players) hyped up. I think it's a joke. When I get real proof otherwise i'm sticking to my pessimistic thoughts. And right now I believe this is completely fake.

Stijn: filtered acronym removed. Next time, you will get a subwarning for this.

[Jerrythabest]

Yeah, I'm also 100% sure they are (-)ting bull. Such a big news thing would be worth a new thread, a newspost and a huge discussion on what we are going to do but I see none of these.

[Stijn]

J2NSM is quite real and has brought you, among other things, 1.23+ :rolleyes:

[ThunderPX]

J2NSM is quite real and has brought you, among other things, 1.23+ :rolleyes:

I thought 1.23+ was made with a disassembly though, not the source.

[Jerrythabest]

If it would have been made with the source it wouldn't need a DLL file. Also, the name J2NSM is completely pointless in that case.

[Dermo]

and if 1.23+ was really a recompiled jazz2.exe, then why's it act the way it does? Like when you join a server hosted normally, you get the "No Start Pos Found" error. Now if J2NSM had the sourcecode then (-)(-)(-) is he waiting for? Make something that would shock us all and prove he has it.

[Grytolle]

Using the source code would defeat our purpose, to modify JJ2 without using it.

[Dermo]

But why mod it without the sourcecode when it's there? The purpose of the sourcecode is to make the game modified more easily than if we were disassembling it.

[Birdie]

Because we like the challenge of doing it without the source.

[Dermo]

It's because NOBODY OWNS THE SOURCE. Don't act dumb birdie.

EDIT: Ok I shouldn't say nobody. J2NSM doesn't own the source. I have yet to be proven otherwise.

[Grytolle]

Birdie nailed it. We're enemies of the source code... First we infiltrated the 1.25 council (who seeks to obtain it), and now we have taken the source code hostage, so to speak.

[Olsen]

The ransom is?

[Dermo]

their whole family is held captive

[Grytolle]

The ransom is?Too much for anyone to pay

[ShadeJackrabbit]

Oh well, it was bound to happen eventually.

[Jerrythabest]

Blegh, as if anyone would ever believe you guys.

[FreeFull]

I we want to use the source code, we need permission from these guys who wrote it, if they're still alive

[Jerrythabest]

They are...

[Dermo]

The engine's now freeware and so we could implement the jj2 sprites in BC and therefore, make our own copy of jj2 that's free as a sample or something and from there, we could add some hot level packs from j2o (like UD and the other top level packs) and give it away as a free game to give people a sample of what jj2 is like. The only thing is you would need an effective way for battery check to read 1.23 or 1.24 levels or an effective way to convert them. But this would be a nice project if it's legal to put jj2 sprites in bc.

Another issue: Both games use completely different pallets for the sprites.

[Jerrythabest]

And another issue: Both games use completely different events! Only the One Way and Level Start events are the same.

[FQuist]

Just because one game that uses the engine is freeware does not make the engine freeware.

Also, please stop spamming the thread with nonsense. That includes people who claim to have the source.

[Dermo]

Right you are Fquist. But if you consider it, all you need to do is download BC and then the JJ2 Shareware and copy and paste a few sprites from the animation file and you have a free legal game you can distribute. Lots of work but it could be done.

[Violet CLM]

Yes, but it would <i>use the Battery Check engine</i>. Jazz 2 does not consist of running around, constantly losing energy, and activating devices by putting batteries into them. There really aren't existing sprites <i>for</i> most of those things in JJ2. Even if every sprite in Battery Check was replaced by something Jazz-related, it would still be a totally different game from JJ2, and serve in no way as a free legal sample of JJ2. And that's operating under the belief that editing anims.j2a is legal in the first place, which I doubt.

[Dermo]

well SD is not legal here in the US because it's illegal to reverse engineer a program to guess it's source but get real. Most mods were done via hex editing and if they started tackling a bunny game that hasn't been supported for years while you got Unreal and other widespread games getting away with modifying everything possible. And the whole battery running out and stuff. All you have to do is auto-freeze the value via dll or just remove a couple of bytes and hide the display or replace it with that of jj2's HUD and that issue is solved.

[Stijn]

Has it occurred to you that Battery Check does not involve, among other things, shooting? :rolleyes:

[Jerrythabest]

Cool.. try to finish JJ2 without shooting and cheating. I bet you'll never get past Trainer.j2l, as it's got destruct blocks. Oh, wait, BC doesn't support destruct blocks... nor stomp blocks and stomping/kicking/uppercutting etc etc etc...

[Dermo]

uh right...lawl... you can shoot when you're at a boss but that's not exactly...
whatever...

and i guess implementing that kinda stuff from jj2 would be illegal.

[Speeza]

uh right...lawl... you can shoot when you're at a boss but that's not exactly...
whatever...

and i guess implementing that kinda stuff from jj2 would be illegal.

correct :)

[Dermo]

wb to the forum ryder!

[Jerrythabest]

Yeah ltns!

[sonicnathan 1]

I don't see why we just screw the source code and make the patch!

Time to make the patch: A couple of years
Time until Epic will give us the source code: Not in are lifetime!

[Birdie]

Because you need the sourcecode to do alot of these changes.

[FreeFull]

And we don't have enough motivation to make our own game compatible with JJ2.

[Speeza]

Theres no use complaining , we only know some people who have it , and they know the rules about not giveing it out. So we can only hope for jazz hackers to bring out new stuff.

[sonicnathan 1]

Because you need the sourcecode to do alot of these changes.

It was a joke? OK? But making are own jazz 2 game well.......that's a great idea.
But we can't use the battery check engine. How can you make a jazz game with that?

[Speeza]

Its not a bad idea sonicnathan , but this has been said a lot of times and people have started projects on it , but duel to things like getting angry at bugs , and getting bored , and lack of support , nothing really happened.

[FreeFull]

And we don't have enough motivation to make our own game compatible with JJ2.

Like I said before.

[Birdie]

Stop complaining and go do something yourself then ryder. ;d

[FreeFull]

Birdie, you know it would take some time to make it a bit compatible and to make the sprites (Jazz2 sprites don't belong to us).

[Jerrythabest]

Its not a bad idea sonicnathan , but this has been said a lot of times and people have started projects on it , but duel to things like getting angry at bugs , and getting bored , and lack of support , nothing really happened.

In fact, something has happened. I got a little more than a megabyte of concept ideas for a new 2D sidescroller platform game, which wouldn't be on my HD if I never tried to start up such a Jazz2 remake project. Sad thing is there are no hobby programmers anymore. They all want to see money.

[Violet CLM]

I'm working on an engine, but it may take a while. Sadly, most of these attempts never get too far before the attempters give up or run out of time.

[Grytolle]

openjazz2<3

Also, I still don't think we need the source code.

[Speeza]

Stop complaining and go do something yourself then ryder. ;d

please point out in what part of my posts I was complaining , otherwise don't talk bull

Gry maybe right , there is many things jazz hackers have done , and we may not need it.

[Birdie]

Its not a bad idea sonicnathan , but this has been said a lot of times and people have started projects on it , but duel to things like getting angry at bugs , and getting bored , and lack of support , nothing really happened.

This one ryder.

[Speeza]

um it lacks in complainment

the post was acturlly to state information , if I was complaining , then I would of said something like , yeah but people can't be bothered to make a new game cos there lazy

[Dermo]

Openjazz2 lol that would mean it could be PSP compatible! Ryder, we should join that project. Who's working on it and where would I make contact to them?

[Grytolle]

Because you need the sourcecode to do alot of these changes.No. Native speakers should really know the meaning of "need" :(

[FreeFull]

Hmm, I could do the artwork for OpenJazz2 and maybe some coding...

[Grytolle]

It can use the original artwork.

[FreeFull]

Yes, but wouldn't that make the user need to own a copy of the original game?

[Grytolle]

Only in the version released on J2o

[ThunderPX]

Besides, even if you did make original art that could take the place, it would be illegal to use the Jazz characters and stuff.

[FreeFull]

We could use other characters.

[Birdie]

It would be a pretty bad jazz game with other characters ;d

[FreeFull]

It wouldn't be a Jazz game, it would be a fan game that works with Jazz levels, Jazz tilesets and Jazz servers.

[ThunderPX]

It wouldn't be a Jazz game, it would be a fan game that works with Jazz levels, Jazz tilesets and Jazz servers.

There. Then why not have it use Anims.j2a as well?

[FreeFull]

Hmm, a fan Jazz game which has its own files but is compatible with Jazz 2.

[Dermo]

Now how would that work? If it used the same levels and tilesets, but different sprites, you might as well use Sprite Dynamite to modify every character in the anims.j2a and post that modified anims.j2a on j2o. Then you can name the post JJ2 FAN GAME

Basically what I'm saying is that FreeFull's idea does not make any sense.

[Violet CLM]

Nonsense. Look at Battery Check - that uses JJ2 file formats, but you could not get it by editing sprites alone. What about all the gameplay specifics?

[SzymekRak]

I mailed to LK Avalon and THEY HAVEN'T RIGHTS TO THE GAME and HAVEN'T GOT SOURCE :mad:

[Grytolle]

Nonsense. Look at Battery Check - that uses JJ2 file formats, but you could not get it by editing sprites alone. What about all the gameplay specifics?Well so they crappified movement a bit, big deal

[Caffne]

Well so they crappified movement a bit, big deal

Events too.

[Strato]

I think all of us have at some point or another had the idea of just making a new platformer as a "spiritual successor" to Jazz2. And honestly, it's probably one of the better ideas in terms of realism, cost, et cetera. We'd know the code a whole lot more intimately, rather than relying on potentially poorly documented and confusing source code. We could even have it compatible with JJ2 levels, somehow. Naturally, this is incredibly ambitious, but considering thusfar, to my knowledge at least, there hasn't been a coordinated movement about it. It's just been one man teams of people who run out of energy very quickly. I know I've been there =\. It'd be at least prudent to come up with some sort of design documentation or plans so that we'd have an idea of what to be looking for, in case we wanted to create this project. Considering the pool of coding talent, we'd have a good shot at at least getting somewhere with the idea. So long as nothing from JJ2 is packaged with the game, we can have the option of using files (to my knowledge, it's under fair use) that came with it.

[Jerrythabest]

Whenever they finish the dedictated server we got a pretty good successor to Jazz2. By adding offline and client-side games to it, it could even replace the current versions.

However, people may indeed run out of energy very quickly. Besides that, AFAIK there are some people making serious progress in trying to get a copy of the original source code. Although the code could be confusing in the beginning, it saves the lot of work needed to remake the game and makes it more likely new versions are backwards compatible and can be installed by patching an earlier version.

[Strato]

This is assuming if we don't get the sourcecode, since overall just having that would be ideal.

[Ðx]

Can't wait till 1.25 gets out /sarcasm =)

[n00b]

http://www.filmfodder.com/movies/reviews/zoolander/images/zoolander.jpg
Cool thread revival, Hansel.

[Ðx]

http://www.filmfodder.com/movies/reviews/zoolander/images/zoolander.jpg
Cool thread revival, Hansel.


Do you love Ben Stiller?

[Stijn]

Thread revival doesn't really matter as this thread is stickied, but if you've got nothing to say but unrelated nonsense please shut up (both).

[shaney]

damn dudes u people are sick if ur good at programming just build a game to compete with jj2 and make it a lot like jj2 but then to call it different , so nobody can sue u

[CownLeme]

Ive found my source code corrupted by another person. I suspect their FTP program added a line break every second line.

Think they used cute FTP.

Ive had this problem with filezilla.

Does anyone know a smart way I can remove the excessive line breaks without doing it manually?

I know CSS optmisers will do this for CSS files. Is there something I can use for my php code?

[sonicnathan 1]

Ive found my source code corrupted by another person. I suspect their FTP program added a line break every second line.

Think they used cute FTP.

Ive had this problem with filezilla.

Does anyone know a smart way I can remove the excessive line breaks without doing it manually?

I know CSS optmisers will do this for CSS files. Is there something I can use for my php code?

You don't have the source. It's in doubt that it even exists anymore.

[Sonyk]

If you had the source code would it (with permission from Epic) be possible to port JJ2 to iPhone. I don't see why it wouldn't if it was written in C or C++.
I'm pretty sure it was written in C++, but it'd be a bit of a hassle to port it to Objective-C. Entirely possible, especially since the Mac version was eventually converted into a Carbon application, but a hassle all the same.
You don't have the source. It's in doubt that it even exists anymore.
There's a 99.7% chance that was a bot.

[sonicnathan 1]

Well at least the ban hammer was dropped.

[f2bnp]

Sorry for the revival, but would it be possible to make coop gameplay to work using an Internet connection?
Coop was really a great feature on Jazz 2, but the fact that you can't play online is really sad.

[Troglobite]

Coop does indeed work online. You can use this (http://www.jazz2online.com/downloads/5306/coop-bug-fixer/) bug fixer to allow for health to be lost and for coop to work in general. Also, jj2+ (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=17567) will allow you to easily change gamemode while playing online, in addition to a lot of other awesome things.

[f2bnp]

Oh that's very cool, thanks a lot!

[Hackzor]

This might be a stupid try. But I am trying to decompile JAZZ2.exe (1.23) no ads.

Might crash because lose of RAM.

EDIT: W/eee.

[Sfaizst]

And what do you want to see? it's possible to get a ton of assember code (asm) out of JJ2, but this have nothing to do with a "high"-level programming language (like C where JJ2 is written in, C++, Delphi,...) and we are "decompiling" JJ2 since years (as a Delphi programmer i hate it to call C a high-level programming language, sorry, not realted to the theme, but had to say this)...
(plus itself and jjm and a ton of other utilitys and functions we are using all the time, wouldnd be possible without "decompiling")
In my oppinion you do not get happy with this, if you understand asm and know what you do, have fun and possible you will show us a result in some time (months?, years?,more years? :D)...

Have fun...

Sfaizst

Oh, before i forget:
I only saw for Delphi.Net once a decompiler that give a "readable" source back and for no other language (Scripts can be "decompiled" generally, I think D.Net is creating something similar like a script, so that netframework from windows can translate it and C,C++,Delphi,... are NOT Script Languages)

[WhiteBlaster]

You two guys know that reverse engineering, decompiling and disassembling the game is prohibited, right? Because I'm pretty sure it means that your posts are not supposed to be on JCF, are they?

P.S.: By the way, it looks like it wasn't forbidden in Jazz 1, or at least in the license nothing's written about that. Alister maybe could exploit this, since OpenJazz has different physics than Jazz 1.

[WhiteBlaster]

Are you sure? All that stuff about not endorsing illegal activities, blah, blah...

[Seren]

Look at those "Did you ever steal something?", "Are you a potential thief?", "What are you pirating right now?" and similar threads and repeat it. Basically we only can't do illegal things here (like linking to warez), but talking about how we yesterday group raped someone is fully okay.

[Stijn]

No one cares about people disassembling JJ2.

As for linking to downloads, that's explicitly forbidden by our host's ToS, so that's a different case.

but talking about how we yesterday group raped someone is fully okay.
No it's not.

[WhiteBlaster]

Basically we only can't do illegal things here (like linking to warez), but talking about how we yesterday group raped someone is fully okay.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080102000455/nonciclopedia/images/2/22/Persone_spaventate.gif (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080102000455/nonciclopedia/images/2/22/Persone_spaventate.gif) & FY!

Fine, but what about Jazz 1?

[Stijn]

It's also not allowed to post links to downloads of Jazz Jackrabbit 1, for obvious reasons.

[Seren]

No it's not.
Uh, okay, I'll take a note of it for the future, should come in handy.

[Hackzor]

Um. Is JJ2 coded in C, C++ or VC++?

[WhiteBlaster]

I mean, disassembling JJ1 when needed, for any possible imaginable reason.

EDIT: Naaaah... JJ2 is too big to be disassembled using a program that generates a C-like source code. Your decompiler will most probably generate pure chaos, if it doesn't crash.

[cooba]

Um. Is JJ2 coded in C, C++ or VC++?C<!>

[Hackzor]

Oh. That's why my C++ decompiler blew up. Right....

EDIT:

Isn't it possible to disassemble JJ3 and work on it?

EDIT2: I actually have NO idea about ASM right now. Started learning some basics but.

[WhiteBlaster]

Here you''ll probably realize how significative the fundamental difference between "theorically possible" and "pratically achievable" is.

To do what you are proposing to do would mean that someone takes all of the disassembly output (really a bunch of code) and translates it into C or C++. This first step would require a person that knows Assembly and C/C++ well enough (not to mention 3D animations) and that is patient enought to do a work that would try the patience of a saint.
Next step: trying to understand something about what came out from this.
Last step: trying to program the remaining pieces, which requires an advanced knowledge of 3D games, the Unreal Engine, etc., that no one here has (as far as I know).

I really don't like to swallow the others' hope but, quite frankly, I find this idea quite UNREALizable.

P.S.: Trust me, nowadays learning ASM isn't a good way to waste one's life, except in very particular cases.

[shaney]

Here you''ll probably realize how significative the fundamental difference between "theorically possible" and "pratically achievable" is.

To do what you are proposing to do would mean that someone takes all of the disassembly output (really a bunch of code) and translates it into C or C++. This first step would require a person that knows Assembly and C/C++ well enough (not to mention 3D animations) and that is patient enought to do a work that would try the patience of a saint.
Next step: trying to understand something about what came out from this.
Last step: trying to program the remaining pieces, which requires an advanced knowledge of 3D games, the Unreal Engine, etc., that no one here has (as far as I know).

I really don't like to swallow the others' hope but, quite frankly, I find this idea quite UNREALizable.

P.S.: Trust me, nowadays learning ASM isn't a good way to waste one's life, except in very particular cases.


i dont actually believe in like adjusting jj2 to devolope it further . jj2 has proven to be strong .


i believe it can go with like 10 more years .


the thing we need to figure is how easy is it instead of trying to figure out the uineasy decoding of jj2 etc etc

but lets just try all together to rebuild it kinda like jj2 it self the game is not so big 25 mbs orso


meaning building a game simulair to jj2 bring it to life in a new way simple graphics only yet better then its previous one new features built in server control(like jj2 plus ) build in mp3 suport .


we tried to decode jj2 like for ages now . isnt it better to say screw it . build a game next to it simulair yet better that we can like convert jj2,s levels in to it .


calling the game Jackrabbit reborn orso

[Grytolle]

nice signature

[MrAlextov]

This story is little pointless..
In 2015 (or later or never)

Epic: We have alot of problems, Lets close the company...

Someone buys the backups (Whould be cool to be assemblergames.com)
After releasing these on Internet.
Me enjoying the Pre-OEM alphas and having the source code from backup disc

[Cataflexia]

Hello guys,

I've a question about of accelerated graphics of JJ2. I've tried to start a new post, but I don't have permision to do this.

So, my question is that on my Geforce 2 GTS 64 AGP4x (Windows XP SP3), JJ2 showed me a wider possibilities of differents resolutions, and if I chose the hardware mode, this runs a lot great too.

For the other hand, I've other PC with Win 7 and it work with a ATi HD7950 PCIe 16x, but JJ2 only shows me two resolutions (640x480x16 and 640x480x8).

What happens? JJ2 only support some video cards? There is a way to raise the resolution to 1920x1080 for example?

I remember when I played JJ2 on my old PC, but today I don't have my old PC because I've selled this. I regret for that all my days dudes! :(

I've searched on wsgf.com but the hex editor don't find the string
80 02 00 00 51 c7 44 24 5c e0 01 for change the resolution.

So, can't find a way to raise my resolution, and work smoothly.

Well, any help or suggestion will be appreciate. ;)

[Jerrythabest]

JJ2's maximum resolution is 640x480. The other ones were all smaller (even down to 320x200, which is absolutely tiny). Apparently, your new video card won't let you select ancient, extremely low resolutions. There really is nothing you are missing.

There is a thing called BigJazz, which lets you select resolutions up to 1920x1080. But anything larger than 640x480 is extremely crashy, because the game is not built for that.

[p_jae]

I'm creating a near replica of jazz jackrabbit 2 for android and windows phone, demo level and multiplayer, can someone tell me the legal issues involved in this

[p_jae]

I'm creating a near replica of jazz jackrabbit 2 for android and windows phone, demo level and multiplayer, ate there any legal issues involved in this

[Violet CLM]

Yep. But we've never gotten in any trouble before!

(You should post some of your work for us to see! Those are always fun threads, even if they never seem to go anywhere.)

[Slaz]

Dobermann Software released a replica of the Jazz Jackrabbit 1 shareware on Windows Phone before, but Epic Games lawyers apparently took action and removed it from the store.

Nevertheless, I agree with Violet on posting your work here. Some works like Project Carrot (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=19535) came a long way and are fun to see in action whether they get finished or not. :p

[Darkhog]

Anyone knows if someone still has the sources? Tried contacting Arjan or Cliff? Okay, maybe not Cliff, but Arjan may have them tucked in the attic or something.

Dunno about legalities but I think they could work something out with Epic.

[Nimrod]

In answer to who still has the Source Code, Becky from Logicware does (formally known as Burger).

However she would only release it if she got permission from someone from Epic Games.

FYI: Logicware did the Mac Port of JJ2; so they were given the Windows Source Code to Port

[Jelly Jam]

Oh well i'll fall for it... Is this for real?

[Darkhog]

I hope it isn't AF joke. This would be wonderful. Someone call Sweeney.

[Nimrod]

No joke, but it isn't "new" news either.

We knew of this for the past what, 10 years or so!

No one was able to make contact and get approval. I just thought I'd remind people of this as it seems a lot of the community forgot about it.

[XxMoNsTeRXM]

so that means it might be possible to get the JJ2 Source Code?

[Stijn]

Part of the source code leaked at one point during the last two decades, but I don't think that was ever especially important to e.g. JJ2+.

At this point JJ2+ is far enough along that having the source code would not actually matter a great deal for its future. Things might've been done differently if it had been available when it was first released, but that wasn't the case, and it's now set up in such a way that JJ2's internals are exposed to it transparently enough that new features are mostly a matter of adding new code rather than patching existing code. Merging JJ2+ into a hypthetical open source JJ2 to produce a new hybrid version would probably also be a lot of trouble for little gain.

So while it's nice to know that Jazz Jackrabbit 2's source code hasn't been lost in the mists of time, it's not especially relevant at this point besides as a historical curiosity. Maybe someone would be able to do something interesting with it if they got their hands on it, but at the same time it being unavailable is not holding back development of the game in any way.

(XxMoNsTeRXM, no, it's not possible unless Epic/whoever owns the rights allows releasing it, which won't happen).

[Love & Thunder]

Having the source code would probably be good for things like Project Carrot though.

Plus it might include the JCS source code, so a JCS+ might be possible. :P

(Yes, I'm aware of MLLE and WebJCS. Both of those are in beta. Adding a couple of small things to JCS like upside-down tiles would make such features infinitely easier to access)

Also, there'd probably be some commented out code and such from unfinished things that are completely unrepresented in the compiled files.

Not saying it's any more likely it'd happen(Although if Epic ever re-release it on GoG or whatever, I think it'd be worth them considering doing so), but having the source code wouldn't be totally useless.

[XxMoNsTeRXM]

Part of the source code leaked at one point during the last two decades, but I don't think that was ever especially important to e.g. JJ2+.

At this point JJ2+ is far enough along that having the source code would not actually matter a great deal for its future. Things might've been done differently if it had been available when it was first released, but that wasn't the case, and it's now set up in such a way that JJ2's internals are exposed to it transparently enough that new features are mostly a matter of adding new code rather than patching existing code. Merging JJ2+ into a hypthetical open source JJ2 to produce a new hybrid version would probably also be a lot of trouble for little gain.

So while it's nice to know that Jazz Jackrabbit 2's source code hasn't been lost in the mists of time, it's not especially relevant at this point besides as a historical curiosity. Maybe someone would be able to do something interesting with it if they got their hands on it, but at the same time it being unavailable is not holding back development of the game in any way.

(XxMoNsTeRXM, no, it's not possible unless Epic/whoever owns the rights allows releasing it, which won't happen).

Well, I was wondering if JJ2+ would actually benefit from having the source code and if it doesn't, then indeed it's probably not so beneficial.

[Stijn]

I stand corrected - Violet tells me that bit of source code was very useful in (re)building specific parts of JJ2+... that said, it may very well have been possible to reverse-engineer those parts without the code available, but it would probably have taken more effort. Obiously, Robo4900 is also right that commented-out code and things like that would be very interesting to take a look at.

Either way, the source code is not more or less available now than it has been for the past decade, so while I appreciate Nimrod's update here (since that bit of info wasn't in this thread before) it doesn't materially change anything.

[Nimrod]

I would agree mostly, but I still think IF the Source Code is desired it might be worth now coming to its age for one final push as there is at least an avenue left.

What's changed? The key difference is we now have contact again with Epic. Two contacts infact. While we may find out its only a relevant route for list server operations; it's still a potential route which you may want to explore.

If the community was to put some effort into a good letter or something similar; I think there's a chance we can get it across to Epic for someone Senior to read and potentially reply. You must remember, they got nothing out of the List Server redirect but they took the time to say thank you to all of us for keeping it alive and offering their support.

Ultimately, from my very brief moment back in the community to fix the List Redirect it's become apparent there is two key aims still remaining which haven't been resolved in the last (19?) years.

That is (no order of preference):

Gaining the Source Code or permission from Epic to gain it from Logicware
Getting Permission to Distribute the game 'Legally' as there is no place to purchase it anymore.


It's up to you guys, I don't know how active the community is and what out of those two goals is popular (or if both are desired). Though I believe with a well wording email/letter we could get our ask across to Epic and see what there response is.

I won't pretend to understand what's best or who the best is. I will say however I will happy assist in getting something across to Epic if it is so desired by you; the active community.

Though I must make clear, I don't want to give false hope either. It's possible both could be rejected. Though there is the classic argument for "if you don't ask, you don't get". There is nothing to lose besides a bit of time.

[XxMoNsTeRXM]

I would agree mostly, but I still think IF the Source Code is desired it might be worth now coming to its age for one final push as there is at least an avenue left.

What's changed? The key difference is we now have contact again with Epic. Two contacts infact. While we may find out its only a relevant route for list server operations; it's still a potential route which you may want to explore.

If the community was to put some effort into a good letter or something similar; I think there's a chance we can get it across to Epic for someone Senior to read and potentially reply. You must remember, they got nothing out of the List Server redirect but they took the time to say thank you to all of us for keeping it alive and offering their support.

Ultimately, from my very brief moment back in the community to fix the List Redirect it's become apparent there is two key aims still remaining which haven't been resolved in the last (19?) years.

That is (no order of preference):

Gaining the Source Code or permission from Epic to gain it from Logicware
Getting Permission to Distribute the game 'Legally' as there is no place to purchase it anymore.


It's up to you guys, I don't know how active the community is and what out of those two goals is popular (or if both are desired). Though I believe with a well wording email/letter we could get our ask across to Epic and see what there response is.

I won't pretend to understand what's best or who the best is. I will say however I will happy assist in getting something across to Epic if it is so desired by you; the active community.

Though I must make clear, I don't want to give false hope either. It's possible both could be rejected. Though there is the classic argument for "if you don't ask, you don't get". There is nothing to lose besides a bit of time.

I feel like it would be worth trying to get the source code and get the permission to distribute the game legally since there are still some players playing Jazz Jackrabbit 2. So maybe we should still try to ask. Anyone here who thinks the same? Maybe start a new thread (or maybe not a new thread?) with a poll or something?

[Love & Thunder]

I'm with Nimrod on this. There's nothing to lose through asking, so we might aswell try. Who knows, a push for the source code might stir up some buzz and open some interesting doors.

The only obstacle will be that there are only about 7 or 8 people active here at the moment. Maybe more like 10 or 15 if you include lurkers who occasionally show up. Still not a lot of people.
We'd need to push pretty hard to gain any real traction. Perhaps a post on Epic's forums or somewhere with a larger audience could pull in a large enough pool of oldschool fans to get noticed. Or maybe if we can get LGR (https://twitter.com/lazygamereviews) to retweet us or something.

Either way, I think if Jazz 2 were to become open-source, it would open up the community to modders and newbie coders who are interested in how an engine like Jazz's is set up. Could be very good for the community.

[Treylina]

The only obstacle will be that there are only about 7 or 8 people active here at the moment. Maybe more like 10 or 15 if you include lurkers who occasionally show up. Still not a lot of people.

JCF/J2O is the worst place to find activity right now. Though to be frank, the activity of the community has been pretty segregated at the moment, due to varied interests.

Even my Jazz chatgroup is more active than JCF lol.

[XxMoNsTeRXM]

Even my Jazz chatgroup is more active than JCF lol.


Then let's try to talk about the source code there?

[TanKanT]

i would have to say the source code would benefit and maybe open new doors alongside jj2+ it could in theory remove most limitations and open endless new possibility's for add ons, and updates on certain drivers it uses.

also there is plenty that still play jj2 "now and then" we just need to energize them and motivate them to start playing jazz jackrabbit 2 more often again.

JJ2 is not dead, and it will not die, simple as that.

So i leave this note to say push forward keep trying and most importantly have fun doing jj2 stuff, whether its running j2o, or playing on a jj2 server, or making levels or music, or administrating a server, have fun and remember there always was and there is still hope for jazz jackrabbit 2...