A Proposition

[Onag]

Would anybody be interested in an open source project that loosely relates to Jazz Jackrabbit?

Epic owns the rights to Jazz, but what if we came up with a planet that might exist in Jazz's same universe and developed a game based on it? I don't think we'd be able to legally make references to any Jazz-specific names, but that's beside the point.

Anyway, here's how it would work:

1) We formulate a general idea.
2) We create a website to hold all of the most updated information, source code, graphics, etc. which would be publicly available to all.
3) Anyone who wants to submit design ideas, graphics, code, or anything else can do so.
4) A core group of developers reviews all submitted work and decides whether or not to introduce it into the game.
5) Once the game is good enough for release, the code base remains open source, so add-ons and sequels can be developed in the same manor.

What do you think?

-Onag

[Onag]

Here's an idea to get your brain juices sloshing:

Planet Mechaius was once populated by a race of super-genius beings that were really into technology. Through the years, they continued replacing parts of their bodies with mechanical utilities until they finally reached a point where they were no longer biological, but purely mechanical.

I'm thinking most of the mech characters would be MechWarrior-ish, but really any kind of machines would be possible.

The environment would be mostly mechanlical and indoors, but there would be lots of room for outdoorsy stuff too.

-Onag

[Radium]

Actually, I think (that's) completely crazy.

Getting programmers, animators, etc. would be difficult and expensive. And it would have no profit involved, being put on a website and all. Also, open-source projects never turn out good. We can be sure some "JJ fan" is going to make a "special" R-rated version of the game or something.

Overall, it seems a waste. We take loads of time and money to develop some code that is going to get stolen anyway.

<i>Don't you just LOVE how positive I am?</i>

Derby: Personal attack redirection.

[Onag]

No, read it again. The point is no one pays programmers or artists, and no one sells the game. It's called "open" source because it's completely open. Whoever wants to add to it can add to it. Whoever wants to play it can play it. Perverts can do whatever they want on their own system, but the core files would be strictly reviewed before being posted.

It's called fun. It's called learning about game design and development.

[Radium]

Reminds me of Possum. Awesome game engine made, and one frame of animation. It's ovbious that everyone's just going to say "Awsome, I luf j00, can't wait untill it's done" and leave. Nobody's going to work by choice. It would have about the same affect as a country making taxes optional. "Please donate" just won't work. It's one thing throwing a few quarters in a bucket to fund something, but you're asking people to spend countless hours of time working on something that really has no reward.


<i>At least my views on society are interesting</i>

[Violet CLM]

So, Radium, how is that any different from making level/tileset (pack)s?

[Radium]

It's one game engine, four-hundred frames of graphics, sixty home-recorded sound effects, and at least ten custom music scores different, Unknown.

[Onag]

Possum was a group of several people working on a private project. This is a community of unlimited people working on a public project.

Anyway, new topic. Those who <b>are interested</b>, feel free to reply. Those who aren't, feel free not to.

[Stijn]

Radium, we understood you are never positive about things that might be better than your fangame. Go post somewhere else :P

I am interested, altough I don't think I could do anything for it, except maybe level design, but if have an idea for me, feel free to say it :)

[FQuist]

I like the idea, Onag, and I might just do some things if it gets off the ground.(busy with a dutch site and j2o v2 right now, so I don't know how much I would do)

I think you're one of the only good programmers in the community, Roaster and PaG are not here anymore, so for the code you would hope some people not from this community would join in, or people would learn to code. I know some C++ basics, but I never felt like really doing something in that language, but I guess I could learn a lot by watching the code, and maybe contribute something.

About the Planet Mechaius idea, I am skeptical. I'd think it would be fun if there was a combination of natural forms and technical forms, like in Jazz Jackrabbit, instead of mostly technical. What happened to your marshmallow idea? ;-)

Perhaps another dimension of the Jazz Jackrabbit world(put in smart references to that world) where the turtles won, and conquered all worlds. You'd have turtle bases, tree-house turtles, or something like that. ;-)

[n0]

I am taking VB.Net now, and i'll be taking C++ or C# next semester. I wold love to help with a game, but I can't help with the site. My HTML skilz are really bad.
Overlord and Link and others at J2HG can Program, and lots of people can draw tilesets/textures and animations.
Sounds like a great Idea.
Hey, and on the storyline, there could be some kinda time flux, so you can see a wide veiw of the history of the planet.
That way you meet mostly naturel animals at some places, and mostly mech at other.

Ne ways, I have homework to do,
`N0

[Radium]

Originally posted by Fl@$h
Radium, we understood you are never positive about things that might be better than your fangame. Go post somewhere else :P

I am interested, altough I don't think I could do anything for it, except maybe level design, but if have an idea for me, feel free to say it :)
Actually, I'm just never positive. <i>Someone</i> has to look on the bad side, afterall.

[Onag]

Alright, point taken. As Radium stated, this may be a total flop. Everyone should be aware of the following before they get involved:

1) This is not going to make anybody money. There will be no compensation (other than your name in the credits) for any work done, as the game will not be sold. The most that will happen, if the game turns out good, is I will pay to have copies made and sell them at cost+shipping.

2) There is no guarantee that the project will make it past the early stages. I will promise, however, that whatever does get completed will remain publicly available to all.

3) Because of the nature of the project, any work you do (art, music, levels, etc.) can be viewed, updated, or replaced by anyone else. The idea is for the group to make the best content possible, not for individuals to own certain parts of the project. No one wil 'own' any portion of code/graphics/etc.

4) This is a learning project. More than anything, I want everyone involved to become collectively better at what they do.

That said, here are several talents that are necessary throughout the life of a game (obvious stuff first):

Programmers (in varying areas of expertise)
Artists (still and animated)
Musicians
Level Designers
Writers
Translators
Storyboarders
Marketers
Game Designers
Architecture Designers (defines how the code will work)
Quality Assurance (testers)
Site Administrators
Forum Moderators (don't everyone raise their hand at once)
Tools Developers (build systems, version control, etc.)
Graphic Design (logos, CDs, advertisements)

...the list goes on. Don't be discouraged if you can't program and don't know how to draw. There's much more to be done.

[Onag]

Ideas for Planet Mechaius so far:

Purely mechanical characters (Onag)
Intermix biological and mechanical characters (Fquist)
Use time flux to allow biological characters from the past and mechanical characters from the future (NOBODY)

What if only a small group of the planet's inhabitants have mutated into this form? So, it's kind of biological versus mechanical?

Any ideas for other planets...or a different theme alltogether? Marshmallows? Gah...sure, if everyone wants to. ;)

-Onag

[Ice M A N]

"if everyone wants to"

We do. ;)

[Blackraptor]

Here Onag, some ideas.


Planet (choose a name)
A planet cowered with swamps and greenery, its hard to explore and weilds many secrets. The planet was taken over by goblins a few millenia ago, they built steel foretreeses that led underground. After a few hundred years of staying on the planet, the goblins (most of them) were wiped out by the inhabitats of the planet, which are monsters covered entirely with moss and plant life. The ways of these inhabitats are uncertain, but it is clear they are tricky and hostile. Underground in one of the goblin bases somewhere lies a giant swamp inhabitat by a giant aquatic creature which resembles a giant eel. Note* the deepness of the swamps may be as deep as 500m underwater, where ferocious and mysterious fish inhabit. These areas of swamps are usually untouched by goblins and to deep and dangerous to explore.

Is that good enough Onag, i hope at least one of the planets i make will be included in this.

[n0]

If this really gets going, we could have more than one planet, but for now lets just focus on one. (Mechaius)

[Newspaz]

I'm intrested. But I wonder how we'd not turn it into a mess. I would be intrested in being a level builder if it will work though. Since new abilities always give me inspiration :).

[n0]

Build the website, and I will be there.

[Trafton]

I'll help with any limited part I'm capable of, but I can't say that will be much. I can't draw, and I'm not a very talented programmer. Still, if you need ideas, I'll <strike>steal</strike> contribute some. ;P

[KRSplat]

If you want low quality paint drawings, ask me. However, I suppose I could do midi. Badly.

And when I say I'm bad at something, I am. Don't expect anything good from me. Ever.

[Monolith]

I already dedicated my time to making games for school, so I couldn't really work on the project. I can however offer advice if anybody should ask me for it. And if you really want to do this, the first thing you need to do is to design the entire game with as much detail as possible. This should be done before any code is written.

[Onag]

Yes, at least the first couple months would be spent on developing a solid design document, followed by the software architecture. During this time, I will be spending a great deal of effort on developing the website and the process by which people will be able to access the files.

I've seen several people mention that their drawing skills aren't up to par. You can still be a part! Once the game has been designed and the programmers begin working on the code, they'll need graphics as soon as possible to start testing and tweeking things. Regardless of how bad you think your drawing skills are, most programmers are worse. Much worse. Anyway, we won't need production-quality artwork at first.

Keep those general storyline ideas coming, or further develop the ones you like!

-Onag

[Stijn]

<s>I can color drawings others made</s>

If it's about translating the game to Dutch, I can surely help. I might be able to do some other things like testing and level design too.

[Newspaz]

Has anyone already thought of a main character? Let's name him Spiffy the hamster! Grocerious has been terrorised by evil bunnies who are eating all their lettuce! It's your job to destroy them! ;) Your search for the rabbit in charge leads you to a mysterious place named Carrotus.

[Radium]

Originally posted by Newspaz
Has anyone already thought of a main character? Let's name him Spiffy the hamster! Grocerious has been terrorised by evil bunnies who are eating all their lettuce! It's your job to destroy them! ;) Your search for the rabbit in charge leads you to a mysterious place named Carrotus.
We can't use Carrotus, as it is <s>pwn3d</s> copyrighted by Epic. I like Spiffy the Hampster though, but I think he should be a telekenetic cat.

[Fawriel]

*perma smile*

I'm so in!:D

I can do
-artwork
-writing(as long as it referrs to "I have an idea for the storyline!"or formulating it in complete sentences!;))
-translating (my english/german skills are almost same good,so you can give me that part if you want to!^^)

*shakes a little*
Y'know,my big dream is to make a huge game myself,so this is just perfect!^_^
*worships Onag*

Erm,can you give more info on artwork,please?
Do I just draw some monster for the game and if you like it,someone else is gonna animate it and wheehappy?^^;
Or do I have to make the animating myself?(I CAN do that,but not best quality...)
Basically I can tell you that I think I'm seriously gonna be a good addition to the team,if I have time to work for this,that is!;)

Oh and.....would it be possible to....insert Fawriel in the game....?http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies/riiight.gif
(The dude in my sig-banner...)

Ja ne!

[Radium]

So... many... apropriate... places... for... insults......... Must... not... drive... german... kid... suicidally insane...

[Fawriel]

Admins,why don't we play a little game called "Ban Radium"?:D

(Rad,watch what you say,there are days I'm really down,so if it comes so far,I'll haunt you til you (are haunted) in yer bed!;))

Derby: Redundancy addition.

[Radium]

Yel haunt meh... riiiiight. Maybe Evil Mike can give you some of his (legos), he's got way too (many) already.

Derby: Content replacement.

[Onag]

No, you dont have to animate if you don't want to or are unable to. Concept sketches are just as important in the beginning stages as the final artwork.

And as Radium said, we cannot use anything that directly relates to Jazz Jackrabbit. For example, we cannot use the same planets, weapons, goodies, baddies, etc.

However, if users wanted to make tilesets or whatever on their own, they could do whatever they wanted. We won't be able to distribute copyrighted items without permission, though.

-Onag

[Radium]

Originally posted by Radium
Yel haunt meh... riiiiight. Maybe Evil Mike can give you some of his (legos), he's got way too (many) already.

Derby: Content replacement.
Since when is (/) a bad word? It's the same thing as (/)! And if you put a G in the middle it's a (/)! And it's a known fact that Mike is (/), and he seems proud of that.

Derby: Context removal. Actually, the previous quotation is on grounds for a personal attack. It does not matter whether or not it is true, the rules need to be applied uniformly.

[Fawriel]

Okay!:D

I'll hand in some scribblings of monsters we could use as soon as possible!^^

Noooow...

Any further descriptions on the"writers"?:D

[Radium]

Originally posted by Piccolo
Okay!:D

I'll hand in some scribblings of monsters we could use as soon as possible!^^

Noooow...

Any further descriptions on the"writers"?:D

Can't wait to see this.

I'd critisize Piccolo's work, but my critisization seems to be inturpeted as insults... by everyone.

[defalcon]

I'd be well interested in helping. However, I'm in a net cafe and I have like 5 mins left online so I'll have to get back home from my vacation first and junk before I can provide any suggestions. :P

BTW Onag, ye use your ICQ anymore?

[EverLasting]

I'm very interested. =)
Contact me on pererik.mahl@telia.com, onag.

[FQuist]

Piccollo, I don't know for sure, but you might want to wait until a general story-line has been finished, before you start drawing.

[Fawriel]

Originally posted by Fquist
Piccollo, I don't know for sure, but you might want to wait until a general story-line has been finished, before you start drawing.
I did start drawing already,my friend,but nothing plot-specific...;)

I guess we can use some yucky mutants anytime,ne?:p

Btw....IS there a possibility to insert my fursona Fawriel somehow?:o
As an NPC maybe?
Or will there be mulitple playable characters?o_o

[Radium]

Originally posted by Piccolo

I guess we can use some yucky mutants anytime,ne?
Fawriel's great at those.

[Alister]

I'm rather busy right now, my fortnight of exams having started this morning. Not to say this wouldn't be a welcome break from my studying.

I'd be happy to help in all areas. I have a whole <b>1</b> tileset to donate, with another one (slowly) in the works. I'm assuming that in a project of this type old JJ2 tilesets are welcome.

As for interpreting, I can handle French. Italian too, if you get really desperate. And if you want total incoherency, I could do Dutch, German, and Luxembourgish. What I'd really like to do is English dialectisation. :)

I'd probably be more useful on the programming side. It reaaly depends on what languages and APIs you use. C, C++, OpenGL, OpenAL, SDL, and from what I've heard DirectX should be a doddle if you need me to learn it.

Got an ICQ number?

[Onag]

Yes, I'd like to either make JJ2 tilesets compatible with the game, or at least provide a converter. I'm planning C++ for all game code, and whatever people want for the editor and utilities. VB, C++, .NET, it makes no difference to me.

We'll be using strictly DirectX 8.x for this project. Direct3DX has some encredible new features for 2D graphics, so we should be able to get some pretty cool effects with little effort. And don't worry if you don't know DirectX, as we'll be hiding most of the functionality in wrappers, as we will for most Windows-specific code.

BTW, anyone who is good with file formats (hacking, cracking, and designing) would be very useful for this project.

-Onag

[EvilMike]

Why not DirectX 9?

I'm quite skeptical about this whole thing, but I'll give some advice anyway.

I'm fully willing to help in any way I can with this project. I am capable of doing anything besides artwork and advanced programming. At this stage I would probably be of most use doing a few of the design documents or just giving general advice. If this project actually becomes more than a concept, I will put work into it. Otherwise I'll just sit around spewing ideas.

Make a website. This should be the primary goal for now. This is an open source project being developed through the internet, and it will be extremely hard to organize without a website, even in the conceptual stages. Sure, all of the important stuff could be posted on the JCF, but it is a bit disorganized that way.

If this actually project actually becomes a reality, make sure I'm a level designer (I claim single player). Otherwise heads will roll.

[VelKa]

If you need a completely lost idiot for this project, contact me. I am no good at programming, but am somewhat skilled at writing (storylines, dialogs, creating personalities and landscape descriptions, etc.). Also, I'm not particularly good with drawing, although yes, I do sometimes create small pieces of artwork with a computer (samples @ http://spiffynerd.deviantart.com).

Ideas = Yes.
Programming = No.
Artwork = Possibly/Yes.
Concepts/Writing/Storylines = Yes.
<s>Being an idiot = Definitely.</s>

(ICQ#83487610; e-mail is currently unavaliable due to virus trouble)

I'm not too sure what I could provide, since I have school, and in my free time have a tendency to get addicted to UT2k3. ;-P


~velkasha

[Fawriel]

*begs the topic and the game-idea are still alive* ;-;

Erm...so this isn't just an empty post...

Here's the first entry on all the game ever!:D

The Trilobout monster (sketch) (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/1234210)
(Permission for usage is in the description)

Hope this is usable...^^;;

[Monolith]

Onag: I can help in designing file formats. Just tell me what sort of things the files would need to hold, and I can offer some suggestions.

[Onag]

Ok, great. I'll probably call on you later in the design stages...if this thing ever gets going. Seems people are loosing interest, as there haven't been any storyline ideas in quite some time.

-Nag

[dopeh]

The only languages I can program with is HTML, PHP and SQL. So if you still need another scripter for helping the website design, yer free to ask me. Lemme say tho I'm a horrible image designer so better only let me script. Anyway, if my help is appreciated I guess I'll hear so. Very nice idea, Onag, by the way.

[FQuist]

In the far future I'd guess we could use the entire J2O v2 backend for a site.. it has content management/news/downloads/articles/polls/ip tracking, seperate layout coding for easy changing of layouts and much more. A DB backend, changelog code, RSS generation, and a To Do manager made by Cmdr Dats.

[Fawriel]

I don't think people were loosing interest really,but they aren't exactly sure what to do yet,that's what I think...
We can't just start working on something random and end up in total chaos,ne?^^;

[n0]

Yeah, we need a site first.
Even a temporary one for now!
And as for what we should do plot-wise, I think we should have about three playable charcters to start with, each with diffrent paths, (they might meet and cross and help each other out a little, but keep mostly apart) and as they go along, they meet or free more charcters. The further you go in Single Player, the more charcter options you have in multi player. I also think that once you beat the game, you can play it again, but backwards, this time as the badguys. Oh! And if we have a ton of bosses, then the first bosses will be more powerfull than the last ones, they just have a lot less AI, so that when you play it backwards you halfta beat the entire game again to unlock the strongest boss, the first one that you had to beat. Actually, it dosn't even halfta be good versus bad, it could just be spy versus spy! I like the Idea of mostly organic versus mostly metalitic.

It is year 7 AC, on the planet of Mechaius. The war between the Mec's and the Org's has now turned from all out war to covert operations. In the city of Mechopilis rules THe Hub, who is the mastermind of the Mec's, and the only inhabiant of Mechaius to ever go compleatly Mecha. On the other side of the planet, in the jungles of Organica prowels Jag, the lead rebel of the Org's, who is very proud of her having only one artifical eye, and having no other artifical peices but that!

Both sides are feeling that victory is near, but both have underestimated the other sides power. Jag has sent her top three agents to inflatrate The Hub's power station. The Hub, however, was able to intercept this, and so decided to send out his own top ten agents to stop Jag's three, leave one agent to hold each city they concored, and have his strongest agent attack Jag. Jag's incrediabley keen eyesight, however, saw The Hub's men go out, and warned her agents, and told them to get as much help as they feel fit. And so two covert operations go marching aginst each other, both thinking that they have the element of suprise.
`N0

[dopeh]

Originally posted by Fquist
In the far future I'd guess we could use the entire J2O v2 backend for a site.. it has content management/news/downloads/articles/polls/ip tracking, seperate layout coding for easy changing of layouts and much more. A DB backend, changelog code, RSS generation, and a To Do manager made by Cmdr Dats.
And how long do you mean with 'the far future'? I think, as n0b0dy said yet, there should be made a temporary website first, just to give it some own place, where news can be announced easier etc..Ofcourse the J2o-v2 backend would be fantastic, but how long dyou expect it to take before it's ready for use?

[FQuist]

JoJo:
We create a website to hold all of the most updated information, source code, graphics, etc. which would be publicly available to all.

You don't need a community site for that.

Development on j2ov2 has kind of slown down but I'd expect it to be done within a year or half a year. Most of the backend is done, the things that will take most work are the downloads section and the content. If we wanted to finish the backend that part could be finished within two weeks.

[Onag]

Okay, let's start talking about what we'll need for a website. I would like to design the website from scratch. Seeing as how this project is a learning experience for all involved, I see no reason why we can't also allow everyone to contribute to the website design/layout/coding.

However, your help would be greatly appreciated fquist. Any ideas you have that worked or didn't work with j2o(v2) could be very useful. Also, you're a coding genious, and that always helps. =)

Anyway, what do we need the website to do?

For now, I think a simple message forum will suffice, which I'll set up as soon as I get paid again. ;p

How about in the future?

-Nag

[Onag]

Originally posted by N0B0DY
It is year 7 AC, on the planet of Mechaius. The war between the Mec's and the Org's has now turned from all out war to covert operations.


I *really* like this idea. It gets away from requiring a mad clash of metal and flesh and really allows us to develop characters and storyline. Not to mention you can do a lot cooler things with covert ops levels than all-out war levels.

-Nag

[defalcon]

Originally posted by Onag
I *really* like this idea. It gets away from requiring a mad clash of metal and flesh and really allows us to develop characters and storyline. Not to mention you can do a lot cooler things with covert ops levels than all-out war levels.

-Nag
Covert missions also allow for good use of different, specialised characters. If there are multiple characters, they could have different skils/things to offer, and allow for more teamwork if the level is team-based etc etc.

[Newspaz]

The only problem is "programmers"

[n0]

Originally posted by Newspaz
The only problem is "programmers"
I am learning...
And we have the guys from J2HG, and others can program as well.
But you are still right, we have a bunch of amature programers, who are going to try and make a huge complex 3D game.
I say: lets go for it and become better programers along the way.

[FQuist]

Onag and Toxicbunny are amateur coders? :O

[FQuist]

Anyways, I also like N0b0dy's story. It's fun to have a mix of Organic and Mechanic characters.

It does sound kind of serious. Not anything like JJ2, which is an uncomplicated game with fluffy bunnies that shoot eachother in cartoonish levels. This sounds much more tactical and less cartoonish. That is the thing I like about JJ2 multiplayer. Because of it's cartoonishness and uncomplicatedness it's easy to play, and easy to make levels/tilesets for. :O

Someone aught to get the great storytellers of old times here like Admael, Buster and Blues. It's fun to have multiple good stories to choose between.

[Fawriel]

I'm also quite a good story-teller...:o

[Onag]

Fquist raises a good point. The Mechaius storyline is naturally more serious, and the whole covert thing is even moreso.

To those who are unfamiliar with this old project of mine, let me throw out an alternative game idea:

The game opens with a cinematic: several kids are sitting around a campfire roasting marshmallows. One of the mallows catches on fire, and the kid tries to put out the flame by shaking his stick. The fire is relentless and just burns on. The kid begins shaking his stick more violently as the movie turns to slow motion and zooms in on the flaming mallow.

Suddenly, the ball off goop flies off of the stick and is hurled upward. It goes and goes until it finally reaches the end of Earth's atmosphere and is projected into space.

The flaming mallow continues to soar through space until it finally lands on an unsuspecting planet. Splat!

We fade out and fade back in several million/billion years later. The blob of marshmallow seems to have grown a bit, and is bubbling. Pop! A small blob hops out of the mess and begins moving around. Pop! Pop! Dozens more follow.

The Mallow race is born.

-----

Okay, so that's the basic background. The game would involve several marshmallow characters, each with widely varying moves and abilities. All characters would be playable, depending on the rules of the level. (To the skeptics: Yes, it is possible. I've already worked out how to code it.) Anyway, the game would have very little in the way of weapons. The majority (if not all) of the fighting would be hand-to-hand combat.

So, basically, you would have fast-paced action like Jazz, but cool jumps, attacks, and defenses (think Dragon Ball Z). I would like to incorporate methods of controlling/concentrating energy as well, cause this would just be cool.

The end.

-Nag

(Note: The above idea is copyright me, and I'll only give up the rights if we decide to use this as our project. I've got lots more ideas/etc. for this, as I was actually planning on making the game at some point.)

[Hare]

Wha Marshmallow whattum? Marshmallow people?.... I kind of prefer the fuzzy woodland creature hero. Marshmallow people....It has never been done... but then again I would never think a game about waring worms would be much of a hit either... I guess that is just a thing with me, I'd rather play as a cute fuzzy. :). I'm too picky, and I expect too much :P

Concerning 3D games... Should I even bother mentioning 3Dgamestudio again?

http://groups.msn.com/purrhead/screenshots.msnw?Page=2


I like the diamondustest.jpg image there (I lost the diamondus texture I had, so the default bricks were rendered instead of the blue walls with the diamonds)


http://www.3dgamestudio.com

the world editor takes some learning, though. Easy to start, but to master it takes much trial and error, that finally leads to a better understanding of what will and will not work.

[FQuist]

Two things:

Should this game be in 3d or in 2d? I would prefer 2d, I'm ancient. It would also be cool because the 2d platform game genre still has never been taken to the max.

I like the Marshmallow idea. We would have to drop the 'loosely related to Jazz Jackrabbit and in the same universe' idea, though. Maybe that would be a good thing. I'm kind of nostalgic, you know. JJ2 was fun, and I'm afraid that the next platform game wouldn't have the same feeling. But every game that isn't a real copy will have a quite different feeling, so maybe we should drop the relation to JJ2.

This brings me to something. It will probably end up failing, but why can't we ask Epic and Lost Boys Games if they would allow a platform game in the jj2 universe, possibly even with jj2 characters? If you don't try, you will never succeed. I mean, if even companies like Jaleco may make jj games, and terrible ones at that, why can't we? We would probably have to do away with the open source thingie though. Or at least, the characters would be copyrighted.

[Newspaz]

Maybe we could have the marshmellow bounce a little when (s)he hits the ground ;)

[EverLasting]

I prefer 2D just like fquist, but with 3D objects.
Anyway, I can program OpenGL stuff if that's what you need.
I neither have the time nor the energy to learn Direct3D so that would have to be up to somebody else.

[Disguise]

Hey, havent posted here yet, but I should.
First things first, I saw this topic when it was started, and I have been interested in contributing and helping since then. However, I havent posted this before because I have <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/~tilesets">stuff to do</a> and even more after that, I was hoping to ignore this until those things are finished before I can give my full attention to this project. If otherwise I would never finish them :p

I change dme mind, I thought I might aswell say now that this rocks and you can expect help from me in the future. Project always have this way of rocketing when people show interest in them ;)

I won't be able to really work on the project until around early april to end may (when I expect to be finished with my other stuff). Oh well, now you know that I'm interested, lemme say what I can do:

1. Tilesets to be specific, in a more general formI would saythatthestupidspacebaronthiskeyboardstoppedworki ng!AARGHHH!!!
GivemeasecIneedtologontoanotherPChereatschooltocar ryontypingthis,bahthisissoannoying!

[Disguise]

Phew, better... *continues*

1. Tilesets to be specific, in a more general form I would say I'm into artwork. Environments are what I do, and can make just about any setting you can think of.

2. When I said environments I meant it, my character design is nonexistant, and animation skills are nonexistant. I'll give it a shot, this is a learning experience anyway.

3. I never did coding, no skills there.

4. Ideas/concepts? Sure I'll contribute, but whether it's gonna be good or bad is your choice.

5. Oh, and I should prolly say that I've worked on a project like this before in South Africa. It failed, miserably, Diablo 2 was released a while after starting and our lives (and schedules) changed forever. Changes? It wasn't open source (not worldwide like this ayway), just a bunch of friends working on a game (Clone of Raptor/ Tyrian), and there were like 5 or 6 guys working on it in total. I did all the artwork for that aswell.

*heads off to his class which is about to start waiting for some other free time to fnish his lengthy post*

[FQuist]

Originally posted by Disguise
[B]Phew, better... *continues*

1. Tilesets to be specific, in a more general form I would say I'm into artwork. Environments are what I do, and can make just about any setting you can think of.



BTFH at your service! :D

I would help Disguise test his tilesets. I'm really good at bugging him about improvements.

[Disguise]

Originally posted by Fquist
BTFH at your service! :D

I would help Disguise test his tilesets. I'm really good at bugging him about improvements. TAKE QUIST! He's not really good, he's the BEST! One day when that site of mine is done imma gonna have a whole section on beta testing and that'll show you guys just how good fquist really is :D

Ok, back to . I was just gonna give some of my ideas/input/commentaries looking at what has been posted so far.

First of all, PLEASE make the game 2D. For once we aren't some huge moneymaking corporation that cares about the amount of poeple that play the game, we don't have to care if it sells or not, 2D is waaaaayyy underused. Apart from that most of us here are more familiar with 2D games.

I'm a little unsure about 3D objects in a 2D world. It'll make characters and animation easier (easier in 3D imo), but will involve extra stuff like skinning and rendering, but we'll see how it goes

I also _REALLY_ like the open source idea. It's great, but clashes with quisty's idea on getting the Jazz chars and stuff, so I gotta disagree with quisty on that one. Apart from that, I'll join you guys later ;)

[Fawriel]

Any information on the progress?:D

Btw,I'd love to create a main character,I think I have a lotta talent with those...
I can also throw in ideas for storyline,and what I said already...:rolleyes:

I suck at posts of this sort,so I'll just wait for a reply and show a few more monsters as soon as I drew'm!:D

[Anaiyu]

I'm not sure if many of you know me, but I'd be happy to help out. I'm not sure when I would be able to, but I will as much as possible. I've had experience in concept art and storyboard making for games before. Not big games, mind you, just lil games that friends over the internet have created. ^.^; If you want those samples I could send them through e-mail or post them on a site or somn. Overall, I have a few suggestions and comments after reading through everyone else's posts..

I really like the idea that Onag came up with about the mostly mechanical people and ( i don't remember who it was ) the idea of having something like a flashback, showing the future, the past, and inbetween when there weren't any mechs. I love that idea where they began to replace body parts with mechanical limbs, etc. That was siiiiiic. X3 hehe. When I read the whole mechanical people thing, I thought of Megaman. ;P Funkeh.

There shouldn't be much relation to Jazz what-so-ever, in my opinion, because we seem to be racking in MANY great ideas that should pull off a sure-fire storyboard, characters, and a dang good plot. Lets at least give it a shot without using Jazz or Jazz-related characters, settings, or universe.

Moreover, there was an idea that I saw that asked if there were going to have multiple players to select from. I wouldn't think we should worry about that right now. As Onag said, we can add onto it later because that's what it would be built for, to add on.

Also, (I hope I'm not getting too annoying) instead of having separate worlds and planets, what about having "evolved" bad guys? So, lets say our bad guys were demon... uhh... gerbils. Yes. Gerbils. At the beginning, we could have those gerbils just be a rabid gerbil, it can still inflict damage upon the main character, but it's just the first of what we come up with. Later on, when you guys would want to "change to a different world", instead of having a whole new race of monsters, we could have an evolved version of the gerbil. So, instead of a cute, fluffy, go-happy, big teeth, wants-to-bite-your-head-off gerbil, we could have the evolved version with a small story, or a movie/animation, behind it. Example: The gerbils were in there dark cave, planning their evil plot to destroy the uhh... Good People!! Bwuahaha! But, then, a barrel of toxic, back-fire waste spills all over them and they become smarter, quicker, bigger, and... EVILER! (( is eviler even a word? )) Well, you guys get my point, I hope. Having more than one race of bad guys is definetly good, but I wouldn't imagine that we would need to switch to a whole new planet like in Jazz Jackrabbit 1. :P

The whole marshmellow people sound pretty awesome except for one thing that has me stumped. It seems pretty farfetched to add in a marshmellow race, no matter how awesome it is, and to attract people to play it. I understand that this is a project made purely, or mostly, out of fun, but what if this really kicks off? If we do this right, people may really like it. I'm not saying I would like to gather money from this, although it would be nice, but this really could be a hit.. I may be looking a bit far into the future or what it could be, but hey, somebody has to! :P

Okay, I have written way too much, but I had a lot to say. ^.^;; One last question to finish this off:
In any of your opinions, about what age group would this be made for? If we want this for kids, we don't want to scare them crapless with monsters streaming green froth from their mouth and bloody swords, daggers and blood-stained teeth. If it's for teens and younger kids that are old enough, I think those would be acceptable, no?

Okie dokie. <.<;; I'm shuttin up now.

[Onag]

I've already contacted Epic, and they're not at all interested in selling the rights to Jazz, which I guess means they at least have some faith in his future. Unfortunately, in order to use the characters, Epic would own the game, and, as has been stated, we would be unable to do open source. Any kind of direct relation to Jazz is out of the question.

Most definitely 2D. Mixing 2D scenery with 3D objects would be possible, but maybe not the most efficient. We'll be using Direct3D, which does merge 2D and 3D graphics, but I'll have to look more into what happens when you try to use both at the same time. If all else fails, we could use rendered sprites of 3D objects.

I'm kind of leaning toward agreeing with those that have suggested not even trying to stay within the Jazz universe.

Anyway, I've been busy the past couple weeks, working to make some money so I can actually pay for this thing. =) In the mean time, keep brainstorming. I'm seeing a lot of good ideas.

-Nag

[n0]

Ok, I only have one comment.














































<font size = 1000>DON'T DO MARSHMALLOWS!!!</font>
You do marshmallows, I will deny any existance I ever had in this thread. Well, maybe not, but i am really geting into this "Mecha vs Orga" thing.
`N0

[defalcon]

Originally posted by Piccolo
Btw,I'd love to create a main character,I think I have a lotta talent with those...

I think it'd be better to have main characterS rather than one central one.

I have some rather niftular weapon ideas though. Very many. :p They're combinations of energy, projectile and good old fashion sharp object weapons. So whilst the whole high-tech 'my laser is bigger than yours and my gun is louder' thing is cool, there could also be the foot people running up to an enemy armoured suit and going 'ha, I stab your foot with this EMP-discharge bayonet' (it's a weapon idea...normal bayonet that discharges EMP into mechanics to disable vital systems...bleh I'm rambling..).

[Fawriel]

Originally posted by defalcon
I think it'd be better to have main characterS rather than one central one.
Eh,read my posts better...
I said"a main character" not"the main character"...;)

Hey,will it be a single player thingy where you simply run around and bla-bla-bla,or will there be talking and puzzles of some sort as well?^^
Also,will the characters have real personalities,so they react different from others in some situations?
Or would that be too complicated? XD

[Onag]

Game mechanics will come later. Here's the general game development process we'll be following:

1) Brainstorming (current step)
This is where general story and character ideas are developed until we think we have something that might actually work.
2) Original Treatment
We compile a list of all of the desired features (practical or not). This is where we get to have fun and not worry about the limitations of technology or our own abilities.
3) Game Specification
We create a more feasible list of features, storyline elements, etc. This time, we pay attention to limitations.
4) Design Document
This is a series of text files, images, etc. that give an in-depth description of how the game will work. It will contain every detail of every aspect of the storyline and gameplay.
5) Artwork
Creation of concept sketches will begin at this point, and this will move on into produciton art as the project continues.
6) Testbed Development
This actually happens along with step 7. It is where we create several simple script/programs to test our design and programming theories. We work out bugs with our design here, before we've spent hundreds of hours coding.
7) Game Architecture
This is where we disect the game and define exactly how it should be programmed. We define the specific technologies, libraries, class models, etc. to be used.
8) Development
Type, type, type. Compile, compile, compile. Test, test, test.

That's a general overview. There are several steps between and after those mentioned, but you get the idea.

-Nag

[Hare]

My bob! that is a lot of reading to go through.... now I forgot what I read.... Oh yeah.

I'd like to note that not every idea will end up in the final game. In disney animation, storyboarders write and draw up their ideas and display them before the director and such, and not every idea is taken, sometimes peoples hard work is thrown out, sometimes entire scenes... and oddly enough, in the end, it turns out to be something much different than the original idea. (the Emporer's New Groove was originally going to be called Kingdom of the Sun, another traditional disney flick (love story and everything)... but in the end it came up to be a side splitting comedy.). This will happen in the development phaze.

Any character designs made right now are more likely not to be in the final product, than those made after the core concept is decided.... oh yeah... core concept, the first thing to decide. Now how did Bob Bates (was that the right name?) put it? Ah, yes, The high concept...er... actually that doesn't sound much different than core concept. :rolleyes:

In his book, "Game Design, The art and the business", he says that the high concept describes the game in only a couple of sentances. That will be an anchor that helps the project stay in focus.

er... wow... I sound smart... why can't I be this smart in RL?

[Hare]

Now I stop and think, "Did my rant actually help anything at all?"... good grief.

[Tik]

I finally read through everything, and I am extremely interested in helping with this project. I love programming, but unfortunatly right now I know nothing of C or C++ or anything, and I know I could not program the website. I suppose I could contribute storyline ideas or perhaps do some level design later in developement. Yeah, I would love to do level design, unfortunatly that probably quite a long time away.

First things first, this topic is nice and all...but we really should be getting a site together, specifically our own message board completely dedicated to the production of this.

About the mechanical vs organic and all that related stuff - that sounds like a sweet idea to me. Kind of like a Sonic thing. However, I think the marshmellow idea is absolutely hilarious and it would be great to fuse the two together. Since this project will most likely just be for fun, why not? Marshmellows, robots, and fuzzy animals - what could be better? Someone also mentioned the idea of having evolved monsters but on the same planet...that's a good idea, but having many planets allows your creativity to go to the max. Think of all the different environments you could work with on multiple planets...you could throw in crazy physics for a certain level, many different monster but with the same general theme...that's what helped make Jazz1 so cool was the different planets.

I'm also for having it be unrelated directly to JJ2, although we could always throw in some unrelated tangents and just fun easter eggs relating to it (not using any of the characters or game names exactly of course), just kind of as an inside joke. So....it should be unrelated to JJ2, but naturally since its being created by this community it will always reflect our JJ2 "upbringing".

Oh, the anticipation....

[n0]

Originally posted by Onag

Most definitely 2D. Mixing 2D scenery with 3D objects would be possible, but maybe not the most efficient. We'll be using Direct3D, which does merge 2D and 3D graphics, but I'll have to look more into what happens when you try to use both at the same time. If all else fails, we could use rendered sprites of 3D objects. Would that be SSB style? 3D objects in a 2D world? cause that would be preety cool.

oh, and here are some quick profiles I have been working on.
Short Profiles
| Name | Species | ASL | Speed | Jump | Health | SWepon | SS | LWepon | LS | Specials
|Jag |Feline |22/F/OJ| 10/10 |10/10 | 10/10 | Claws |10/10 |Elctrode| 9/10 |Stealth/Eyesight/Pounce
|Ray |Insect |29/M/OC| 5/10 | 7/10 | 1/10 | Sting | 3/10 | N/A | 0/10 |Fly
|Don |Reptile |18/M/OI| 6/10 | 5/10 | 3/10 |BrasKnux| 8/10 | Knives | 7/10 |Climb
|Sal |Fish |21/F/OI| 1,7/10| 2/10 | 4/10 | Spines | 4/10 | Spines | 3/10 |Swim/Aqualung
|Becca |Rodent |27/F/OC| 2/10 | 3/10 | 9/10 |Tail Wip| 2/10 | Rocket |10/10 |GuidedMissles
|Joe |Primate |24/M/OJ| 8/10 | 9/10 | 7/10 |PwrPunch| 7/10 |CoCoNuts| ?/10 |Virus
|------|---------|-------|-------|------|--------|--------|------|--------|------|------------------------
|TheHub|Primate |??/M/MC| 10/10 |Hover | 10/10 |Chainsaw| 9/10 | Napalm |10/10 |Shield
|Meg |Insect |21/F/MS| 3/10 | 8/10 | 2/10 | N/A | 0/10 | Light | 2/10 |Fly
|Mouse |Rodent |19/F/MC| 4/10 | 4/10 | 5/10 | Slash | 5/10 | Charge | 6/10 |Climb Walls
|Byte |Reptile |26/M/MD| 7/10 | 6/10 | 8/10 | Chomp |10/10 | Roar | ?/10 |Confuses
|Rom |Feline |18/M/MS| 9/10 | 9/10 | 5/10 | Kick | 4/10 |Tailgun | 8/10 |Jump+shoot=Superjump
|Floppy|Fish |23/F/MD| 8/10 | 5/10 | 6/10 | Slap | 2/10 | Shock | 9/10 |Swim
The location in ASL:
OC=Orga City
OJ=Orga Jungle
OI=Orga Island
MC=Mecha Central
MS=Mecha Suburbs
MD=Mecha Docks

Ths is all I have for now, but I will have longer profiles on everyone shortly, so no one start working on the longer profiles.
`N0

[Fawriel]

Hey,if we do this one-species-fights-another-thingy,we could just as well let you choose between the different species to play...like in Warcraft!:D


*claims the page in the name of Onag*;)

[Red_XIII]

Graphics - Haven't drawn, but special effects, I rock

Coding - Pretty good, I've got C++ and VB and C under my belt if you give me some guidlines. I just need a template to start off with though, I can't make a starting thing :p

Story - Sure, I have a good one ;)

Ideas - Lots, lots, lots


I would like another 2D game, but I think that a 2D-3D game would be more interesting.. like in the old Jazz 1.

No offence, but I love Onag's marshmellow idea. Hilarious, just like rabbits holding guns. Only thing is, I think we shouldn't have the gun thing. Possibly RPG, FPS cross? I dunno. RTS as well.

"MARSHMELLOWS ATTACK!"

:)
<s> Wisety will probably own us all </s>

Anyway, look at my contact shiz to contact me, anything else ask me in #jj2 or whatever.

Red_XIII

[we need more programmers I think]

[n0]

Exactly, Picco!
If you play as the Mechas, the bosses are Orga. But if you play as the Orga, the Mechas are the bosses. Your team will halfta work together to make it through all the levels, and it would be REALLY cool if we could make some of the levels palyable both ways. All the pedestrians you meet going one way are enemies you halfta fight going the other. And there dosn't halfta be a good side and a bad side, both sides will see the other side as the bad side.

I need somone who can draw to help me with the longer profiles. That way we can get a good idea of not only what they act like, but what they look like, too.

`N0

[FQuist]

Why are we already starting on profiles while we don't even know yet what the game is about or have a story completed?

[n0]

Profiles is a part of my story.
And the game is about Mecha versus Orga. (At least, the one I am working on is)

[FQuist]

*confused*

[Radium]

If you ask me, the Mecha vs Orga thing is quite overused.

[Tik]

<b>1) Brainstorming (current step)</b>
This is where general story and character ideas are developed until we think we have something that might actually work. We're coming up with general ideas right now. Character profiles are good, but it would be smarter to make character profiles once we actually have some characters and a story.

[n0]

The profiles are developing the charcters. My sister and I are working on drawing the charcters. I will scan them in and put them up on my webspace (can't really call it a site)

`N0

[Onag]

Feel free to keep working on whatever you're working on, as everything helps for inspiration. The point Spaztic was trying to make was that we don't know yet if we need profiles for marshmallows, bunnies, aliens, cyborgs, humans, etc. Your profiles may help to convince people which way to go on the storyline, but if not, they'll likely not be usable for this project.

On a side note. Sorry I haven't been around much. I'm literally working 15 hour days on my current job (website for a local sports league). On the up side, the site is turning out nicely, and I'm further tuning my scripting abilities for later application on this project. =)

-Nag

[defalcon]

Onag the Code-junkie. ;)

[Onag]

yah, so? ;p

[defalcon]

A far cry from the days of Onag the lenient JMMB mod/admin. ;)

[Krezack]

Originally posted by Trafton
I'll help with any limited part I'm capable of, but I can't say that will be much. I can't draw, and I'm not a very talented programmer. Still, if you need ideas, I'll <strike>steal</strike> contribute some. ;P

I'd love to be a QA guy, and I also have the basic talents Trafton talks of, too.

My best skill is bug finding, though, and it's related skills. So I guess Architecture Designer would fit me, too. Sounds "nice", but I only mean it in a purely "I'll help" way, not an "I'll do this bit all by myself if I have to" way.

[Onag]

Alright, I'm working on getting a site ready. What should I call it? Remember, the name should be generic, as if this is successful, it will host other open source game projects as well.

-Nag

[Tik]

Something with 'Junta'

[DanX]

Well... if you need another writer I could help. :)
I could think of some storyline with lots of twists and turns all through the story - some people here on the board could tell you what I'm capable of :lol:

Dan.

[Syntax]

I would like to contribute to the programming pool. I am well versed in C/C++, though I have never worked with graphical interfacing before (I thought it would be fun to learn). I am also very interested in game design and architecture design. If I am feeling inspired, I can also help with level design.

[Onag]

The website is progressing slowly. I'm still looking for good ideas for a name/domain. Once I get a good name, I'll put the site up as is so it can progress along with the game idea.

-Nag

[FQuist]

Should it be a name with or without things like "software" in it, as in the game of a development team or a name of a site that just supports games but doesn't have any team or so.

[Newspaz]

Originally posted by Onag
The website is progressing slowly. I'm still looking for good ideas for a name/domain. Once I get a good name, I'll put the site up as is so it can progress along with the game idea.

-Nag You could consider doomedtofail.com as a name ;)

[defalcon]

BAH Newspaz, no pessimism. That's my job. ;P

[Disguise]

www.communityproject.com
www.platformcommunity.com
www.opensourceplatformer.com
www.platformgamesrus.com
www.projectplatform.com
www.opensourcefuture.com
www.platformisalive.com
www.communitybrain.com
www.opensourcelearning.com

So nice to sit at school bored and being able to just type these out non stop without caring how stupid they sound ;)
The above ones are pretty much just rnaodm names of the basics, platformer, community, project, open source. Atleast it's a start :p

www.freeyourmind.com
www.testyourlimits.com
www.obeyourtalent.com
www.unlimitedpossibilities.com
www.giftoftalent.com
www.learningsquad.com
www.senseyourskill.com

These are sorta related to open source projects (the good stuff ;))

www.projectjunta.com
www.juntasquad.com
www.juntasource.com
www.juntacommunity.com
www.platformjunta.com

^--- OBEY TEH TICK! :D

Yes i'm bored, but someone should show those pessimists what to do }>

[Krezack]

Originally posted by Disguise
www.communityproject.com
www.platformcommunity.com
www.opensourceplatformer.com
www.platformgamesrus.com
www.projectplatform.com
www.opensourcefuture.com
www.platformisalive.com
www.communitybrain.com
www.opensourcelearning.com

So nice to sit at school bored and being able to just type these out non stop without caring how stupid they sound ;)
The above ones are pretty much just rnaodm names of the basics, platformer, community, project, open source. Atleast it's a start :p

www.freeyourmind.com
www.testyourlimits.com
www.obeyourtalent.com
www.unlimitedpossibilities.com
www.giftoftalent.com
www.learningsquad.com
www.senseyourskill.com

These are sorta related to open source projects (the good stuff ;))

www.projectjunta.com
www.juntasquad.com
www.juntasource.com
www.juntacommunity.com
www.platformjunta.com

^--- OBEY TEH TICK! :D

Yes i'm bored, but someone should show those pessimists what to do }>

I don't understand. What is that post about?

How about www.notdoomedtofail.com

[Radium]

Originally posted by Krezack
How about www.notdoomedtofail.com
That name's quite untrue about this project.

[mikeejimbo]

I wish I could help, but I'm not good at anything... I could play test, that's probably about it.

Actually, I would be good with storyline, but I think you'll get enough of those.

Could I just send a donation? ;-)

[G@vie]

I don't have much confident in this idea, but it sounds cool
I might be able to help. I have skills in programming, Level design, Animation, Graphic Design, Help with site, Translate.