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[GpW]Urbs [GpW]Urbs's Avatar

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Jan 12, 2011, 04:19 AM
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Ya but smoking weed doesn't affect others unless they're hypocrite pricks.

Here other people get hit by "negative externalia" of the actions of the cheater. Which wouldn't be possible had the cheats not been made. Yes, idealistic mayhaps, but I think you can't deny the responsibility of the one who made the cheat completely.

In the case of RL and artem I suppose two of a kind got together - both unpopular with the community and both with certain qualities the other needed. So don't act as if it wasn't completely conscious from both parties. And artem started cooperating only after he was no longer a member. Imagine him being the co-leader, RL might have well wiggled their way into the finals of jj2wc and with a bit of luck ousted even CC.
Just because at a certain point in history luck would have it that young Artem left RA/RL and felt maybe a wee bit bitter about everything, therefore deciding to get back at his former partners in crime doesn't out of a sudden make him a saint for turning his ex-compadres to the law enforcement. History could well have taken a different route. Someone somewhere usually squeals though, which is good for us, so that the cheaters can get at least a fair dose of ex-post punishment, which doesn't change all the wrongful events that occured because of cheating during the past.

And to go back to the analogy of weapons, well if anyone thinks that somebody (or even a civilization) which makes weapons isn't responsible for using them, here's what chancellor Bismarck had to say on the matter:" You don't have armies and then not use them, you have armies to send them to war." Poor translation, but nvm. Same goes for cheats. Are you going to honestly tell me that somebody who made a cheat didn't know somebody would use it in some form or other? Please, what kind of world do you live in?

You know, among the economists the phrase "There's no free lunch" is often used, yet rarely properly understood. Thing is, you might have legal instruments which make possible that an entity or a person only has limited responsibility for its actions. Furthermore you might have a system in which social costs occur yet the private party responsible for those costs doesn't pay for them (due to a legal system which allows such actions), which is basically how capitalism operates. You get private benefits but no one gives a damn about the social costs that outweigh the private costs. But universe is a bitch, and she doesn't take kindly to any other laws but the laws of physics and eventually those costs start to show somewhere and everybody has to foot the bill of some greedy bastards who didn't know when to stop.
Be it in form of natural disasters, wars (as per Bismarcks argument which basically says that if you have an economy geared towards making weapons you need to have wars to sustain it, case in point are the US) but the system will eventually recalibrate itself. And the actors who acted without thinking were in the least part of the disequilibrium, that is something they can't escape from no matter how much they'd like to try.

After creating the nuclear bomb Oppenheimer quoted an old hindu text saying: " I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

He didn't say it with glee but with sorrow. Maybe he didn't have a say in the matter, maybe it was predetermined that he would created this device of destruction, who knows, the point is, he knew fully well what hell he helped unleash onto the world. And simply absolving him of all guilt is wrong. I'm not saying Oppenheimer is a bad man. He was a smart person, who worked on a project that ended up creating a nuclear bomb. He had to have been conscious of what he was up to. Deep inside he had to have known his work would lead to mass destruction.

For if that is the way the game is to be played, if Oppenheimer was indeed not guilty, well then, we can take this relativism ad infinitum. And you won't even hear me complain about this. But since most of us tend to have certain views which are in a manner of speaking absolute, such a resolution is improbable. in which case we can't say that Oppenheimer had nothing to do with the events which lead to the dropping of 2 nuclear devices on Japan. It was all the fault of those evil aeroplane pilots. But wait, was it not the fault of their bosses, all they did was follow rules, right? And was it not then the fault of the big bwana, the president of the US that the bombs were dropped? And he had to drop them because of Hitler and the japs being all agressive. They got agressive because the economic system failed to produce the results expected of it which lead to the need of governments to invest their money on public works and their armies. Had the 1929 crisis not occured Hitler would have been only a marginal political figure in Germany and maybe Oppenheimer would have made the nuclear weapon for the Germans. Probably a decade or two later. Hell he would probably have died before.

It's either all about circumstances or all about responsibility.
Or you can be in between and expect people to take at least partial responsibility in which case there is no way in hell you can say the that the person who made the cheating program is out of a sudden completely off the hook. Because he most definitely is not.
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