Something I find strange is that people who still play jazz call themselves a community and still use different versions of the game. You can easily see that different versions of jazz are being hosted on the servers. The servers should be changed so that it only supports one version of jazz and that's the version everyone has to use. It would make most sense for the version to be 1.24 since that is the newest one.

That would just cause a split in the community, and if you want to join another server of another version just use a version editor. also, 1.23 > 1.24

1.23 is the most used and easily found version, TSF... not so much. Like Birdie said, it'd split the community, and wouldn't do much to help in any way.

Wrong. The TSF community (if you want to even call it that) is far larger and more active than 1.23.

I wouldn't say "larger" but there is a lot of 1.24 servers. The thing is TEC can easily enable you to join 1.23 servers. Something to host 1.23 using 1.24 would be really really really cool though.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

Something I find strange is that people who still play jazz call themselves a community and still use different versions of the game. You can easily see that different versions of jazz are being hosted on the servers. The servers should be changed so that it only supports one version of jazz and that's the version everyone has to use. It would make most sense for the version to be 1.24 since that is the newest one.

I don' think so. TSF is hard to find and telling people that they can't join the comunity just because they don't have TSF is wrong. I think it should be the way it should be now. Just let people use whatever version they use.

TSF is hard to find? Once again, this site's anti-piracy stance is hurting jazz and its community. It would be so easy letting people know where to get the correct version to play online. Then everyone will have the same version and it wouldn't "split" the community. Take a look at all the other games out there that are played online. Do you see games of different versions being hosted?

Those 'Other Games' Don't list multiple servers of different versions. It prevents compatibility issues.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

TSF is hard to find? Once again, this site's anti-piracy stance is hurting jazz and its community. It would be so easy letting people know where to get the correct version to play online. Then everyone will have the same version and it wouldn't "split" the community. Take a look at all the other games out there that are played online. Do you see games of different versions being hosted?

While I tend to agree, the owners of this site are wise not to endorse illegal activities for obvious reasons. The fact of the matter is that this site doesn't even need to host full copies of any version of the game in order for people to find it on their own. This should be common knowledge.

As for the split in the community, I'm not very active on JJ2 obviously but the TSF-based community and the 1.23-based communities are almost already separate simply based on location and time zone. If we were ever to unify the two it would be with a newer upgrade such as 1.25. And even then I doubt that support for 1.23 and TSF and even 1.21 would cease. Cutting them off would just worsen any 'split' anyway. And as has been said, there are tools for someone on one version to play against someone on another.

While TSF may be more active recently, it is 1.23 that has always had the most skilled players around (imo), who are not as active or are not active at all. Personally I use both jj2 versions. You can easily join a server that of another version by using a version editor as stated some posts above. TSF players can always play in 1.23 servers, but 1.23 users can't always join 1.24 servers due to some compatibility issues. Some recent servers will allow both versions to join.

the only reason there are more TSF servers is because TSF doesn't need a patch. If you count 1.20 servers as 1.23 things would be equal.

The majority of active 1.23 players are European, so I wouldn't say the timezones makes that much of a split.

Saying that someone who has TSF doesn't belong to Jazz fans, or someone with 1.23 Isn't Jazzer. All Jazz versions are Jazz Jackrabbit games. It would be unfair to not to let be Jazzer because of his version. It'd split the community to many little pieces.

I think the players can call them as a one community of Jazz gamers, whatever version they have. Actually, if the community would use only one version, there would be two consequences:
1. There would be like 5 different jazz communities
2. The players with the version with least players would possibly stop playing, as they would think the community try to bring em down.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

TSF is hard to find? Once again, this site's anti-piracy stance is hurting jazz and its community. It would be so easy letting people know where to get the correct version to play online. Then everyone will have the same version and it wouldn't "split" the community. Take a look at all the other games out there that are played online. Do you see games of different versions being hosted?

If I remember rightly, the "no warez" policy is actually laid down by the webhost.

And to answer your second question, yes. There's two very common versions of the DE mutator for Unreal Tournament, and they aren't compatible with each other. And the only way to find out if the server has the same version as you is to try to connect to it.

Then JJ2 does that better, as it doesn't allow you to connect to it if it has a different version ;p It's 'grayed out' on the list already.

Now an impossible to do thing would be to make a server in the list called "updater" and make it so when a 1.20 user tries to join it, it sends them the patch to their desktop (and possibly executes it) and modifies their registry with the list server patch so the 1.23 patch will know where to find 1.20 and that would be really cool if the patch also auto-executed.

We *could* make a program that scans the list for 1.20 servers and joins them to send the message to update their JJ2 to 1.23.

So, what about making one?

well you get to work

Originally Posted by Drmoo

Now an impossible to do thing would be to make a server in the list called "updater" and make it so when a 1.20 user tries to join it, it sends them the patch to their desktop (and possibly executes it) and modifies their registry with the list server patch so the 1.23 patch will know where to find 1.20 and that would be really cool if the patch also auto-executed.

That wouldn't be impossible. We could even force a patch upgrade on them using hax. It's just a tad unethical, that's all.

Not to mention illegal as well.

Originally Posted by Tik

While I tend to agree, the owners of this site are wise not to endorse illegal activities for obvious reasons. The fact of the matter is that this site doesn't even need to host full copies of any version of the game in order for people to find it on their own. This should be common knowledge.

As for the split in the community, I'm not very active on JJ2 obviously but the TSF-based community and the 1.23-based communities are almost already separate simply based on location and time zone. If we were ever to unify the two it would be with a newer upgrade such as 1.25. And even then I doubt that support for 1.23 and TSF and even 1.21 would cease. Cutting them off would just worsen any 'split' anyway. And as has been said, there are tools for someone on one version to play against someone on another.

What obvious reasons? You really think epic is going to send lawyers after this site for some old game they no longer support and won't even host their own servers for? And I doubt the webhost even knows what jazz jackrabbit is. It SHOULD be common knowledge for people know where to find a certain version of the game. But I'm hearing things like "some people can't find this version of jazz so they would be split from the community". It is a fact that at this point, everyone has access to 1.23 and 1.24. Don't use this site's pointless "warez policy" to deny it. I don't why people would be so determined to stick to their own version. Do you 1.23 jazzers feel so proud of using 1.23 that it would be too much to ask of you to make a few clicks to upgrade to 1.24? If you had to update to play online, would you quit jazz and then cry in the corner because the community is "trying to bring you down"? As for 1.25, it's been anticipated for a long time and may never happen because you can't see the source code. If 1.23 jazzers have to update to 1.25, then that means they'll have everything 1.24 jazzers have, so they might as well update to 1.24 now.

Now an impossible to do thing would be to make a server in the list called "updater" and make it so when a 1.20 user tries to join it, it sends them the patch to their desktop (and possibly executes it) and modifies their registry with the list server patch so the 1.23 patch will know where to find 1.20 and that would be really cool if the patch also auto-executed.

Many games actually do automatically patch you to latest version everyone else is using in order for you to play online. But even if this is a good idea to encourage everyone to change to a single version, it shouldn't be necessary. People shouldn't be too lazy to make a few clicks so that they have the correct version to play online.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

Many games actually do automatically patch you to latest version everyone else is using in order for you to play online. But even if this is a good idea to encourage everyone to change to a single version, it shouldn't be necessary. People shouldn't be too lazy to make a few clicks so that they have the correct version to play online.

What about the people who don't know about the patch?

You're just jealous because you don't have 1.23.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

I don't why people would be so determined to stick to their own version. Do you 1.23 jazzers feel so proud of using 1.23 that it would be too much to ask of you to make a few clicks to upgrade to 1.24?

Well, the moral implications for one.
Also, ++Cheese. :)

Originally Posted by kangaroo

What obvious reasons? You really think epic is going to send lawyers after this site for some old game they no longer support and won't even host their own servers for? And I doubt the webhost even knows what jazz jackrabbit is. It SHOULD be common knowledge for people know where to find a certain version of the game. But I'm hearing things like "some people can't find this version of jazz so they would be split from the community".

They very well might. Jazz Jackrabbit is their copyright and they have every right to prevent or endorse it's distribution. I don't like it, and you don't need to, but it's the law. If they want to make a JJ2 on Xbox Live Arcade, do you think people will buy it again, or download the "legal because of different laws" version? (This sounds kinda weird, but I'm saying if the laws were different Epic could lose lot's of money.)

Originally Posted by kangaroo

It is a fact that at this point, everyone has access to 1.23 and 1.24. Don't use this site's pointless "warez policy" to deny it.

NOT TRUE. If you don't have hi-speed, it takes forever to download either. Plus, it's illegal, and some people still have something called a conscience, ya know?

Originally Posted by kangaroo

I don't why people would be so determined to stick to their own version.

Because we (some) still have morals, and won't throw them away so easily.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

Do you 1.23 jazzers feel so proud of using 1.23 that it would be too much to ask of you to make a few clicks to upgrade to 1.24? If you had to update to play online, would you quit jazz and then cry in the corner because the community is "trying to bring you down"?

Well, I don't play online, but yeah, I probably would.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

As for 1.25, it's been anticipated for a long time and may never happen because you can't see the source code. If 1.23 jazzers have to update to 1.25, then that means they'll have everything 1.24 jazzers have, so they might as well update to 1.24 now.

This is where I thought: "Shut up and do research." 1.25 would make fixes to 1.23 AND 1.24, therefor being an actual different version than 1.24. 1.25 was never meant to be a "free" 1.24. Get your facts straight and then lay this (-) on us.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

What obvious reasons? You really think epic is going to send lawyers after this site for some old game they no longer support and won't even host their own servers for? And I doubt the webhost even knows what jazz jackrabbit is.

As Torkell said, it is the webhost's policy, and it is a perfectly reasonable position. It does not matter that Epic would probably never spend their resources pursuing a tiny group of people distributing a game that was a market flop. The hosts would do well to deny service to us if they knew such things were going on. If they did not, then they too would be liable to Epic.

The administrators and managers of J2O have put in ridiculous amounts of time, energy, and money into this site. Yes, we all want new players and publicity for this game, but it is simply foolish to distribute the game freely here. They do it all for you without asking anything in return except to follow a few simple rules. If you, as an individual, choose to distribute the game illegally, then there's nothing the administrators here may do assuming that it is not connected with J2O. Moreover, your insistence is not going to help your cause, as I am certainly positive that this rule will not change.

It doesn't need to be Epic to pursue illegal versions of JJ, any individual with a grudge could easily just show the host illegal activities to hurt the site.

(<Tik3)

Okay so what's good with 1.24 except annoyingly large levels and an additional character who sucks even harder than Jazz does?

The license says:

Other than as provided specifically in this Agreement, You are not permitted
to copy or otherwise reproduce this Software; modify or prepare derivative
copies based on the Software; distribute copies of the Software by sale or
other transfer of ownership; rent, lease, or lend the Software; or to display
the Software publicly. You are expressly prohibited from transmitting this
Software electronically over the Internet or through any other media or to
any third party. YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO REVERSE ENGINEER, DECOMPILE OR
DISASSEMBLE THE SOFTWARE IN ANY WAY.

So this site (at least many of its download files) is, in fact, already committing copyright infringement.
It's just a matter of degree -- for instance, if jazz2 were still being sold, the mere distribution of a modified executable could hardly be argued to have caused sales loss.
The holier-than-thou "we won't do it because it is illegal" attitude should be abandoned and replaced with some common sense.
That said, while the current policy of this site certainly allows illegal activities, I wouldn't say it is immoral. In fact, I think it is a reasonable compromise between legality and the interests of the community.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

whining about why there's no warez on this site

Jack has a site, Jack puts illegal stuff on it, Jack's site gets closed down. Simple as that. Arguing further about that is quite pointless.

Originally Posted by Drmoo

well you get to work

Well I could probably make such a bot in PHP in about three or four days or so, but it would be better if such a bot is just a normal program.

Originally Posted by FreeFull

What about the people who don't know about the patch?

What about people right now who still don't know they need to patch their game to play online?

You're just jealous because you don't have 1.23.

Wrong. I have both versions.

NOT TRUE. If you don't have hi-speed, it takes forever to download either. Plus, it's illegal, and some people still have something called a conscience, ya know?

Leave your computer on overnight? Besides, there was a patch that actually changed 1.23 to 1.24 although i'm not sure what happened to it. I doubt it would be very hard to make another one.

Well, on public boards I never give anyone the link but on MSN, in TSF and 1.20 servers and in real life I'm spreading the links too ;p You are right, it's a little bit pointless to tell people they shouldn't pirate since the full version game is nowhere to be found (most of these online shopping sites offer the OEM versions instead of the registered version). I doubt if that's legal too.

lol, and you're lecturing me about moral conscience? I also find it funny how many people are bringing up the "moral issues" even though this site seems to put forth the idea that it doesn't care what you choose to do outside of it.

Well, I don't play online, but yeah, I probably would.

hopefully it's just you, but if there are really other people like this, i'd say good riddance.

This is where I thought: "Shut up and do research." 1.25 would make fixes to 1.23 AND 1.24, therefor being an actual different version than 1.24. 1.25 was never meant to be a "free" 1.24. Get your facts straight and then lay this (-) on us.

Someone said that 1.25 could be the unifying version of 1.23 and 1.24. If that was the case, then anyone who has 1.25 should have the same things regardless of what version they updated from. This is common sense for preventing compatibility issues.

As Torkell said, it is the webhost's policy, and it is a perfectly reasonable position. It does not matter that Epic would probably never spend their resources pursuing a tiny group of people distributing a game that was a market flop. The hosts would do well to deny service to us if they knew such things were going on. If they did not, then they too would be liable to Epic.

The administrators and managers of J2O have put in ridiculous amounts of time, energy, and money into this site. Yes, we all want new players and publicity for this game, but it is simply foolish to distribute the game freely here. They do it all for you without asking anything in return except to follow a few simple rules. If you, as an individual, choose to distribute the game illegally, then there's nothing the administrators here may do assuming that it is not connected with J2O. Moreover, your insistence is not going to help your cause, as I am certainly positive that this rule will not change.

Assuming that the host would even bother to check, the worst that would happen is the site would receive a "cease and desist" letter. But even if this site absolutely refuses to post a link, it does not change the fact that a line of text is easy to spread. There's PMs, IRC, and the game servers themselves.

Okay so what's good with 1.24 except annoyingly large levels and an additional character who sucks even harder than Jazz does?

It's not about what each version has and doesnt have. It's about getting everyone to use the same version. If adding a new character and a few new levels is all that it takes, then there shouldn't be anything to complain about.

So this site (at least many of its download files) is, in fact, already committing copyright infringement.
It's just a matter of degree -- for instance, if jazz2 were still being sold, the mere distribution of a modified executable could hardly be argued to have caused sales loss.
The holier-than-thou "we won't do it because it is illegal" attitude should be abandoned and replaced with some common sense.
That said, while the current policy of this site certainly allows illegal activities, I wouldn't say it is immoral. In fact, I think it is a reasonable compromise between legality and the interests of the community.

Exactly. I figured certain files on this site weren't legal anyways. And I bet nobody was even bother going to ask permission to use jazz content to make that machinima thing either. Also, i doubt buying jazz from some obscure shopping site or ebay is even going to put a penny in epic's pocket at this point.

kangaroo does bring up some really good points. But i'm sorry we can't legally do anything of that sort. I would love to see that happen too but i'm afraid we can't. And yes I realize that it may not be legal but i dont see how it's immoral to do something like that. We're not illegally accessing somebody's pc

I'm not going to argue any more, but you obviously don't understand very much about the game and it's history kangaroo.

Originally Posted by ShadeJackrabbit

I'm not going to argue any more, but you obviously don't understand very much about the game and it's history kangaroo.

What a useless statement. Anyways, since you don't even play online, this subject does not concern you and your opinion on it does not matter. Goodbye.

Originally Posted by kangaroo

What a useless statement. Anyways, since you don't even play online, this subject does not concern you and your opinion on it does not matter. Goodbye.

This is a useless argument. And don't say that Shades statement is usless. Hes giving his opinion. It's not like your opinion is the only one that matters. Your not convincing everybody. Also the patch to change 1.23 to 1.24 was never released and it's illegal to download it.

While bringing up some nice points about the no-warez status of this site, I still must say that I find your attitude rather disgusting. If you had ever played JJ2 online for real, you would know what a blessing real bug fixes are, like the fix for death on flag or team chat sending to the correct teams. You think it's self written that everyone should play 1.24 while what I said before truly applies; there is nothing better with 1.24's Internet play, and regarding single player (which I admittedly don't give a (-) about); it only has one episode.

Also, since all programs are written for 1.23, since that's what most people play when playing seriously, I see no reason why I change to 1.24 would be a particularly good idea. (Yeah, I don't care that you for some weird reason don't like positive progress)

About the list server: shutting people out is just stupid. If you want to be able to play with players of all version, just use the Multi-version hack.

Originally Posted by Grytolle

it only has one episode.

Which has now been "converted" to 1.23.

Thanks you Grytolle Though I don't think the flag bug should be fixed. It's dead usfull.