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Coppertop

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Jan 5, 2007, 07:14 PM
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Rules Feedback Thread

Thoughts and opinions are welcome.

RULES
1. Please do not write Mary-Sue style stories. These stories are not likely to be taken seriously, and tend to be an annoyance to other members. Comedies and satires, action, fantasy and science fiction are all permitted and encouraged, but please write sensibly.

2. It is encouraged that you use other members' characters as well as your own and those from the JJ2 universe. Character profiles can be found (and should be posted) in the Profiles Thread. Please do not make a separate thread requesting people to join your story; you should do this in your story thread, right after you post your first chapter.

3. Please attempt to keep your story content family friendly. If your story is graphic, you must have a disclaimer in your thread title to that effect. (Example: Story Title [DRUG CONTENT]) If there is no disclaimer and you wish one to be put in, please send a private message to myself or an administrator requesting it. If your story content merits a disclaimer and one is not present, I will add one in.

4. Do not include any explicit sexual content in your story. If you do, it will be edited out at the least. Mild content (kissing, romance, etc.) is permissible. Remember that this message board is family oriented. Please keep your writing tasteful.

5. Mild violence is permissible - action and fight scenes, etc. Graphic violence (torture, extreme goriness) requires a disclaimer. Again, please be tasteful in your writing.

6. While it is not required that your story take place within the Jazz Jackrabbit universe, please do not post fanfiction for other games/universes here.

7. You may or may not recieve critiques/suggestions on your story. This is not in any way an insult. If you are giving a critique, be polite, be civil, and be honest. Be detailed and helpful. Vague critiques do not help anyone.
n0

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Jan 7, 2007, 03:38 PM
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I don't know about number 6. Crossovers can be fun. The sonic one in that thread was well done.

-=Edit=-
Much better now.
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Jan 8, 2007, 12:00 PM
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1, 4, and 6 together rule out 99% of all fanfiction.

If I write a story that breaks every rule there can it count as a satire or would it just get moved/edited?
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
Coppertop

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Jan 11, 2007, 08:04 PM
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N0, that's a good point about crossovers. On second thought, it will probably be sufficient to just leave it at "no fanfictions for other games".

Rad: hahaha.
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Jan 12, 2007, 06:34 PM
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Hello there; I'm Sarah and I'm posting for the currently absent Doubble Dutch; she's written up and mailed me the final chapters for her story 'The End' (I had tot ype them all up, it took hours!) but I can't find her story thread to put them in.

It is possible I'm in the wrong place, or clicked the wrong option or something, I really don't know how this place works. So if someone could somehow show me what to do, that would be very helpful, thanks.

Tyhe thread was titled 'The End' and according to DD was supposed to be located in the 'War Tavern' section.
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Jan 12, 2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubble Dutch
Tyhe thread was titled 'The End' and according to DD was supposed to be located in the 'War Tavern' section.
Threads, like people, get old and die. However, like Disney characters, they can magically be brought back!

In other words, only threads with a reply from the last 30 days show up. Click to http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=15416 and post a response and it'll jump back to the land of the living.
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
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Jan 13, 2007, 02:12 PM
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read something that isn't there anymore? that link is totally random and I can't think of any way anyone would be able to find it.
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Jan 13, 2007, 02:20 PM
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...

If you post a reply there again, it will return at the top of the "recent threads" list. If that isn't good enough for you, too bad.
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Jan 13, 2007, 03:00 PM
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...Am I the only one who can see The End on the first page?
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Jan 13, 2007, 03:07 PM
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Nope.

However, no one here stated he couldn't see it as far as I know
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Jan 14, 2007, 09:37 PM
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No, you misunderstand; when I first arrived I could not see the thread, because, as you rightly pointed out, it wasn't recent. That nice fellow above found the thread, but I do not know how he did it. If he had told me just to reply in it to make it appear, I would not know how to get to the thread because there would be nothing to click. He provided a link to click, solving my problem this time.
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Jan 15, 2007, 01:41 PM
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It seems like there are debates on writing and Mary Sue-ness stirring up in Sweetness and Jwren's threads. Just to throw an idea out, do you think the WT's thread posting rules could be expanded to include debates and tutorials on storywriting theory as well? It would help separate the generalized criticism/responses (e.g. "never do this") from the story-related ones (e.g. "use more adverbs!"), as well as give new writers some tips to read before getting started. Maybe you could encourage the use of a tag before things that aren't stories (like "[Theory] how to be awesome")


.. and yay! I'm a nice fellow!
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
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Jan 15, 2007, 01:54 PM
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If you scroll down to the bottom of the War Tavern page, you can change how far back it will show posts.
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Jan 15, 2007, 07:13 PM
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Radium, writing tutorials would be perfectly fine IMHO.
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Jan 17, 2007, 02:04 PM
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Someone might want to make a mary-sue litmus test for the JJ2 universe.
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Last edited by n0; Jan 17, 2007 at 02:26 PM.
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Jan 17, 2007, 03:37 PM
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I rather dislike Mary Sue tests; they leave too much out and grade on too many obscure things.

A Mary Sue really has to do with how well a character ties into the theme. I mean, look at Superman; he's handsom and has super powers and superior cryptonian morality or whatever, but that's what Superman is all about - a character everyone can put faith in.
Mary Sue tests, and Mary Sues in general, are always a mix of two very different concepts: nonsense and cliche. Nonsense has nothing to do with the plot (e.g. a character being super sexy when all he/she does is fight) and cliche is so overdone that people don't want to read it (the hero becoming the teenage commander of a huge rebel force). Overall, it's just "be original and follow the rules".

But, I strongly believe that the most important thing to remember about writing is that any rule can be broken if it's the focus of the story. Luke Skywalker became the teenage commander of a rebel force, but it worked because the whole story was about his heritage as a Jedi. And if you were writing a story about a supermodel that turns down her multi million dollar actress job to be an assassin, it would probably work to have her be beautiful even though all she does is fight. It's all in the focus.
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
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Jan 17, 2007, 04:00 PM
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Agreed, but usually Mary Sues are wish-fulfillment characters that are, frankly, badly done. I have nothing against wish-fulfillment, my own character is what I'd like to be (or used to, anyway) but I object when a character goes overboard.
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Jan 17, 2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppertop
I have nothing against wish-fulfillment, my own character is what I'd like to be (or used to, anyway)
It bothers me greatly that 99% of wish fulfillment characters are assassins.
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
Coppertop

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Jan 17, 2007, 04:15 PM
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Scary, innit? Of course, assassins are cool. So are mercenaries, pilots and any form of magician.
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Jan 17, 2007, 11:38 PM
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Hmmn, I like that discussion; in my opinion what ruins a lot of fanfiction is wish fulfillment; you're writing about an existing universe and should stick by its rules, you're not in charge and daydreams belong in your head.

I'll be quiet now.
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n0

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Jan 18, 2007, 07:14 AM
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I agree with DD (Sara?).

The MarySue test should be as simple as:
Does your charcter fit in the JJ2 universe? (Anthro, space age, etc)
("No" give you two points)
Is this charcter your avatar? (Your namesakes charcter)
("Yes" gives you one point)
Could this character beat a main character hands down?
(A point for each)
Is your charcter a major love intrest of a main character?
(A point for each)
Does your charcter keep in charcter? (ie. can do things never trained to do well)
(Two points for "no")
Is your character really lucky?
(A point for "yes")
Does everyone else in the story treat your charcter like something special?
(Two points for "Yes"
Does "Mysterious" describe your character? For no good reason?
(A point for each)
Does your character meet any of these cliche: Related to main characters, has a twin, is an orphan...
(A point for each)

I ran a few character thru here...
Jazz gets a 5, Spaz, Lori and Devan all get a 4, so I'd say that if your character scores a five or more, it's a mary sue.
When I run my avatar thru, he comes out with a 4. It's what I expected, he's on par with player characters.
I just made this test up right now, any comments or suggestions?
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Jan 18, 2007, 07:36 AM
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I think you guys are taking this way to seriously.
There are people around here who are twelve or thirteen years old, do not expect all of them to abide by these rules.
You are also acting as if twenty stories a day are being posted here. This is not the case, we should be glad with all of the people we get and try to guide them in the right direction. Not cut them off before they've ever had a chance of writing anything.
I think the world rules needs to be changed into guidelines because being so strict in a part of the forum that is so incredibly low on activity is taking things way to far.
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Jan 18, 2007, 08:07 AM
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Maybe giving some sort of example of a Jazz-universe Mary sue could help writers; A small story so they can compare theirs with...
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Return to our roots!
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Jan 18, 2007, 11:22 AM
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I somewhat agree with Sara/DD on the fulfillment thing; wish-fulfillment can be amazingly done outside of fanfiction, but inside it often comes across as trite.

And I rather like your test, N0. It leaves out a lot of the things in the other I thought were completely unneeded. I think the "beat another character hands down" and "love interest" should be 2 each, though.
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
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Jan 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
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...what I meant by "one point each" is that if you can beat Jazz hands down, you get a point. If you can beat both Jazz and Spaz hands down, you get two. So, because of the addition, I don't think it needs to be more then one point per each.
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Jan 18, 2007, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOnlyN0B0DY
...what I meant by "one point each" is that if you can beat Jazz hands down, you get a point. If you can beat both Jazz and Spaz hands down, you get two. So, because of the addition, I don't think it needs to be more then one point per each.
Yeah, I guess that makes a more sense for the "hands down" one. I still think "love interest" should be at LEAST two each, because you're already approaching MarySueness if you're in a romance with one of the base characters, and if it's more than you're definitely a Sue (unless, of course, you are writing a story about some Carrotonian pimp).
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
Old Jan 18, 2007, 06:12 PM
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Jan 19, 2007, 12:51 AM
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Errr...13...14 Year olds?

*raises 16 and proud of it flag*

*gets beaten down by random users*

Okay...If my character is disliked THAT much, I'll make him weaker. If people don't like my story because of the POWERFUL characters...then I'll make em weaker.

Happy now?

SPOILERS: Jazz gets beaten by a beta version of Bolly in Chapter 5 (D)...

Owuch...Yes, I know I spoiled it a little...but it's gonna be posted tomorrow....thus proving Jazz CAN be beaten. Devan...however...
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Jan 19, 2007, 05:49 AM
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I see your 16 and raise you 20. Age alone is no reason to stop enjoying things.

@Unknown Rabbit: Ah, those were the days. I found j2c about when the final upload of levels was announced, and have kept several sections including that in my own archive for many a year. Never did get the Star Wars references at first. I don't suppose you'd have a complete version of any of the tales posted there? Most of them seem to have been cut off part-way through, and the formatting explodes near the bottom
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Jan 19, 2007, 09:58 AM
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Sadly, no. I wasn't around back then, but my best guess was that after the end of that page, it switched to the JMMB.
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Jan 19, 2007, 05:04 PM
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...The test...Huh? Okay...Let's see...

Does your charcter fit in the JJ2 universe? Yes, in a way.

Is this charcter your avatar? Yes. One point.

Could this character beat a main character hands down?

Wouldn't have the power to fight his friends. No.

Is your charcter a major love intrest of a main character?

No.

Does your charcter keep in charcter? I don't really understand that one. He can't do anything to do with guns, fire-arms, hand to hand combat...

Is your character really lucky?

I don't believe in luck, so no.

Does everyone else in the story treat your charcter like something special?

Not sure there...He's respected...because of his role, but that's pretty much it.

Does "Mysterious" describe your character? For no good reason?

No. Everybody knows about him. Not many secrets to hide...if any.

Does your character meet any of these cliche: Related to main characters, has a twin, is an orphan...

Was abandoned...so...One point.

So...I'd be about 3-5 points. My character seems within limits.

Anyways...Some characters are pretty broken plot or power-wise when you think about it. Jazz for example. He can fly with a flying surfboard, can obtain shield...invunerablity...some close combat...beat demons...

Yeah, he's kinda cheap. At least he isn't annoying...Thank goodness there isn't a movie...otherwise someone might ruin it...by giving him some lame voice...

*shudders*
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Jan 19, 2007, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superjwren329
Could this character beat a main character hands down?

Wouldn't have the power to fight his friends. No.
I think the question is addressing if he has the physical power/skill to beat them, not the emotional strength (and "main" can refer to badguys, too). It's generally considered bad when your character is more powerful than any of the other main ones.
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GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

<i>"This picture shows me that the gray bird man is just a bully and picks on smaller birds. Just because he has no friends and takes it out on others smaller than him to look good. I can see in the parrats eyes that it does however have a understanding of the gray bird man and is upset about getting cut."</i> - Speeza on cartoon birds.
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Jan 19, 2007, 05:52 PM
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Well...He's capable of beating them if he's at his best. At the state he's in now...he'd be lucky to get out of a battle with Jazz/Spaz/Lori/Devan ect alive.

He remains quite weak through the the course of the story. Which is why he needs to be supported when he runs out of steam...

Plus, another weakness...He tends to be a bit too...emotional...

Besides...Devan...if you read the story so far...has got a pretty good power boost. So this will make things interesting...
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Jan 19, 2007, 06:23 PM
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Remember, answer honestly or the test is useless. That goes for all Mary Sue litmuses.
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Jan 19, 2007, 08:47 PM
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I did answer it accordingly....Are you implying that I am lying?

*slowly transforms into large and menacing monster*

I thought not...

*tries to change back*

Not again...Now look what you made me do!
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Jan 21, 2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superjwren329
*slowly transforms into large and menacing monster*
Pinocchio had the deal with his nose growing, I guess Jwren turns into a monster
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Jan 21, 2007, 11:31 PM
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Nah, I just go partialy insane. You're forgetting the sig...

*laughs crazily*

*watches random things happen*

*somehow gets caught on fire*

Joshua: What the....CRUD!!!

*explodes*

*reforms*

Owww...
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Jan 22, 2007, 05:28 PM
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I would really, really appreciate if you guys would keep this on topic. I don't mind discussion but some of these posts are definitely pointless.
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Jan 23, 2007, 11:15 AM
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Seconded.

CT, after some useful discussion on this subject, would it be prudent to make a closed sticky thread dictating the rules, no longer open for casual debate and available for newcomers to read through without confusion?
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Jan 23, 2007, 07:49 PM
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My turn to second. I left this open to allow feedback from users, and there have been some good suggestions. Do you want to make a new thread or simply close this one?
 

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