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Wontfix Ever so slightly increase Lori's base jump height

StrikerTheHedgefox StrikerTheHedgefox's Avatar

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Dec 8, 2017, 05:17 AM
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Ever so slightly increase Lori's base jump height

When playing JJ2:TSF all over again, I've noticed that getting past some platforming sections as Lori can be insanely difficult. This is because she lacks the extra height boost provided by Jazz's uppercut, or Spaz's double-jump. To somewhat make up for this, I think it would be a decent idea to slightly increase Lori's jump height, not as high as Spaz's double-jump, nor Jazz's uppercut, but just enough to make basic platforming a little easier. Probably half, or a full body length's worth of extra height.

Makes her a little more useful, by slightly buffing her normal jump in exchange for her lack of an offensive/brick-breaking vertical boosting ability (jazz's uppercut) and overall jump height/fine-tuned jump control (spaz's double jump). I think it would go well with the fact she's supposed to be athletic as well.

Last edited by StrikerTheHedgefox; Dec 8, 2017 at 06:26 AM.
Sir Ementaler Sir Ementaler's Avatar

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Dec 8, 2017, 07:23 AM
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This is a valid concern and a valid solution, however JJ2+ will not itself rebalance character abilities. Our scripting API exposes means by which such changes may be made on a per-level basis or in mutators, e.g. your proposal can be accomplished using jjPLAYER::jumpStrength.

Rationale:
When making gameplay changes, we try to make sure that they are one of: optional, a bugfix, or a feature likely originally planned but abandoned. Additionally we want changes to be reasonably backward compatible with existing levels (including user-created ones) and have very little influence on the competitive multiplayer scene.
Your request does not meet those criteria. There are many well-designed levels that would suffer from even very slight jump height modifications, especially in multiplayer. As such, we recommend using our scripting API if you'd rather play with this modification, as this way nobody else will be forced to experience the change. Unfortunately this is currently inconvenient as it requires a script file for every level, but we plan to allow enabling mutators in single player in the future to make it easier.

On a side note, notably all of the platforming sections that are difficult to finish using Lori are found in the TSF episode, which was exclusively released with Lori as a playable character. It's reasonable to consider the possibility that the fault here is not with the character design but rather bad level design or bad communication, and lack of proper testing. As such one solution not mentioned before is: if a platforming section in the level you're playing is awful, perhaps play a better level.
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Dec 8, 2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler View Post
Additionally we want changes to be reasonably backward compatible with existing levels (including user-created ones)
Well enemies flying out of the screen and not appearing again unless coming back to their spawn point after a little while broke a level in Devres4 (totally impossible to get those flying lizards where i'm supposed to).

Also I think Lori's deadly kick makes up for everything.
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Dec 8, 2017, 11:43 AM
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Following SE, I think this request would be better served by a more user-friendly way of applying mutators in Single Player. Someone could write a re-balancing mutator then (maybe even giving Lori a double jump) which could easily be applied when you feel like it (or the level demands it).

Last edited by Stijn; Dec 8, 2017 at 11:54 AM.
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Dec 8, 2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Jam View Post
Well enemies flying out of the screen and not appearing again unless coming back to their spawn point after a little while broke a level in Devres4 (totally impossible to get those flying lizards where i'm supposed to).
Please post this in a separate thread if it's a bug you consistently encounter.
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Dec 10, 2017, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler View Post
There are many well-designed levels that would suffer from even very slight jump height modifications, especially in multiplayer.
>Implying people make Lori-compatible levels
>Implying anyone other than Treylina use Lori in MP
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Jan 29, 2018, 02:18 PM
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I'd consider the level compatibility point if it weren't for the fact that Spaz is already capable of clearing far greater heights with his double-jump.

I understand not wanting to mess with things though, but I hope there's a consideration for it in the future, perhaps with the ability to disable such stuff with a "compatibility/classic mode" should anyone need to.
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Jan 29, 2018, 02:48 PM
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Heights, yes, but not distances. Increasing Lori's jump height would definitely allow her to reach places no character could currently reach. That is not my point, however. More importantly to me, multiplayer levels are designed with specific jump height in mind in order to make movement smoother. Increased jump height is likely to cause players to bump into walls and ceilings, ultimately causing an even greater disadvantage.

I believe that it should be one of our goals to encourage good level design. I think that by implementing a feature that makes poorly designed levels more playable while breaking ones that properly take JJ2 mechanics into account, we would betray the trust of our users. As such, this will not become an opt-out game mechanic. As an opt-in mechanic, much like I said, it is already available via scripting, although not particularly accessible. We intend to allow running mutators in single player in the future, possibly incorporating it into the menus, in order to make this option more user-friendly.
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Jan 31, 2018, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler View Post
Heights, yes, but not distances. Increasing Lori's jump height would definitely allow her to reach places no character could currently reach.
Not necessarily? In the current, vanilla state of the game, Spaz covers the greatest distances and Jazz & Lori are pretty much even. Lori's properties could be set so she can't jump higher than Spaz would with a double jump and, perhaps, slow her movements down ever so slightly so far greater distances can't be reached. Like an in-between character of Jazz and Spaz, not outclassing either of them but making her a valid character choice (Let's be honest now, who picks Lori while playing SP? You'll most likely end up realizing that one of the jumps is simply not doable and then use JJMORPH to continue).

On the other hand, I would much rather have the JJ2+ option to choose whether I want to play as a double jump character or a helicopter ears character (I already posted this suggestion in the JJ2+ suggestions thread). I'm a SP enthusiast, I just want to be able to take Lori into consideration when starting a level.
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Jan 31, 2018, 04:10 AM
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I'm closing this thread, as the requested feature was deemed to be outside of the scope of JJ2+ and all further discussion so far has proven counterproductive. Use scripting to achieve the intended effect. Any off-topic features and bugs discussed in this thread may have their own threads opened at will and posters are encouraged to do so.
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