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Old April 1st, 2017, 04:52 AM   #161
Nimrod
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In answer to who still has the Source Code, Becky from Logicware does (formally known as Burger).

However she would only release it if she got permission from someone from Epic Games.

FYI: Logicware did the Mac Port of JJ2; so they were given the Windows Source Code to Port
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 03:29 PM   #162
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Oh well i'll fall for it... Is this for real?
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 05:02 AM   #163
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I hope it isn't AF joke. This would be wonderful. Someone call Sweeney.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 10:05 AM   #164
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No joke, but it isn't "new" news either.

We knew of this for the past what, 10 years or so!

No one was able to make contact and get approval. I just thought I'd remind people of this as it seems a lot of the community forgot about it.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 10:10 AM   #165
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so that means it might be possible to get the JJ2 Source Code?
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 11:59 AM   #166
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Part of the source code leaked at one point during the last two decades, but I don't think that was ever especially important to e.g. JJ2+.

At this point JJ2+ is far enough along that having the source code would not actually matter a great deal for its future. Things might've been done differently if it had been available when it was first released, but that wasn't the case, and it's now set up in such a way that JJ2's internals are exposed to it transparently enough that new features are mostly a matter of adding new code rather than patching existing code. Merging JJ2+ into a hypthetical open source JJ2 to produce a new hybrid version would probably also be a lot of trouble for little gain.

So while it's nice to know that Jazz Jackrabbit 2's source code hasn't been lost in the mists of time, it's not especially relevant at this point besides as a historical curiosity. Maybe someone would be able to do something interesting with it if they got their hands on it, but at the same time it being unavailable is not holding back development of the game in any way.

(XxMoNsTeRXM, no, it's not possible unless Epic/whoever owns the rights allows releasing it, which won't happen).
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:31 PM   #167
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Having the source code would probably be good for things like Project Carrot though.

Plus it might include the JCS source code, so a JCS+ might be possible. :P

(Yes, I'm aware of MLLE and WebJCS. Both of those are in beta. Adding a couple of small things to JCS like upside-down tiles would make such features infinitely easier to access)

Also, there'd probably be some commented out code and such from unfinished things that are completely unrepresented in the compiled files.

Not saying it's any more likely it'd happen(Although if Epic ever re-release it on GoG or whatever, I think it'd be worth them considering doing so), but having the source code wouldn't be totally useless.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:40 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijn View Post
Part of the source code leaked at one point during the last two decades, but I don't think that was ever especially important to e.g. JJ2+.

At this point JJ2+ is far enough along that having the source code would not actually matter a great deal for its future. Things might've been done differently if it had been available when it was first released, but that wasn't the case, and it's now set up in such a way that JJ2's internals are exposed to it transparently enough that new features are mostly a matter of adding new code rather than patching existing code. Merging JJ2+ into a hypthetical open source JJ2 to produce a new hybrid version would probably also be a lot of trouble for little gain.

So while it's nice to know that Jazz Jackrabbit 2's source code hasn't been lost in the mists of time, it's not especially relevant at this point besides as a historical curiosity. Maybe someone would be able to do something interesting with it if they got their hands on it, but at the same time it being unavailable is not holding back development of the game in any way.

(XxMoNsTeRXM, no, it's not possible unless Epic/whoever owns the rights allows releasing it, which won't happen).
Well, I was wondering if JJ2+ would actually benefit from having the source code and if it doesn't, then indeed it's probably not so beneficial.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 06:39 PM   #169
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I stand corrected - Violet tells me that bit of source code was very useful in (re)building specific parts of JJ2+... that said, it may very well have been possible to reverse-engineer those parts without the code available, but it would probably have taken more effort. Obiously, Robo4900 is also right that commented-out code and things like that would be very interesting to take a look at.

Either way, the source code is not more or less available now than it has been for the past decade, so while I appreciate Nimrod's update here (since that bit of info wasn't in this thread before) it doesn't materially change anything.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #170
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I would agree mostly, but I still think IF the Source Code is desired it might be worth now coming to its age for one final push as there is at least an avenue left.

What's changed? The key difference is we now have contact again with Epic. Two contacts infact. While we may find out its only a relevant route for list server operations; it's still a potential route which you may want to explore.

If the community was to put some effort into a good letter or something similar; I think there's a chance we can get it across to Epic for someone Senior to read and potentially reply. You must remember, they got nothing out of the List Server redirect but they took the time to say thank you to all of us for keeping it alive and offering their support.

Ultimately, from my very brief moment back in the community to fix the List Redirect it's become apparent there is two key aims still remaining which haven't been resolved in the last (19?) years.

That is (no order of preference):
  • Gaining the Source Code or permission from Epic to gain it from Logicware
  • Getting Permission to Distribute the game 'Legally' as there is no place to purchase it anymore.

It's up to you guys, I don't know how active the community is and what out of those two goals is popular (or if both are desired). Though I believe with a well wording email/letter we could get our ask across to Epic and see what there response is.

I won't pretend to understand what's best or who the best is. I will say however I will happy assist in getting something across to Epic if it is so desired by you; the active community.

Though I must make clear, I don't want to give false hope either. It's possible both could be rejected. Though there is the classic argument for "if you don't ask, you don't get". There is nothing to lose besides a bit of time.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
I would agree mostly, but I still think IF the Source Code is desired it might be worth now coming to its age for one final push as there is at least an avenue left.

What's changed? The key difference is we now have contact again with Epic. Two contacts infact. While we may find out its only a relevant route for list server operations; it's still a potential route which you may want to explore.

If the community was to put some effort into a good letter or something similar; I think there's a chance we can get it across to Epic for someone Senior to read and potentially reply. You must remember, they got nothing out of the List Server redirect but they took the time to say thank you to all of us for keeping it alive and offering their support.

Ultimately, from my very brief moment back in the community to fix the List Redirect it's become apparent there is two key aims still remaining which haven't been resolved in the last (19?) years.

That is (no order of preference):
  • Gaining the Source Code or permission from Epic to gain it from Logicware
  • Getting Permission to Distribute the game 'Legally' as there is no place to purchase it anymore.

It's up to you guys, I don't know how active the community is and what out of those two goals is popular (or if both are desired). Though I believe with a well wording email/letter we could get our ask across to Epic and see what there response is.

I won't pretend to understand what's best or who the best is. I will say however I will happy assist in getting something across to Epic if it is so desired by you; the active community.

Though I must make clear, I don't want to give false hope either. It's possible both could be rejected. Though there is the classic argument for "if you don't ask, you don't get". There is nothing to lose besides a bit of time.
I feel like it would be worth trying to get the source code and get the permission to distribute the game legally since there are still some players playing Jazz Jackrabbit 2. So maybe we should still try to ask. Anyone here who thinks the same? Maybe start a new thread (or maybe not a new thread?) with a poll or something?
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Old April 5th, 2017, 08:46 PM   #172
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I'm with Nimrod on this. There's nothing to lose through asking, so we might aswell try. Who knows, a push for the source code might stir up some buzz and open some interesting doors.

The only obstacle will be that there are only about 7 or 8 people active here at the moment. Maybe more like 10 or 15 if you include lurkers who occasionally show up. Still not a lot of people.
We'd need to push pretty hard to gain any real traction. Perhaps a post on Epic's forums or somewhere with a larger audience could pull in a large enough pool of oldschool fans to get noticed. Or maybe if we can get LGR to retweet us or something.

Either way, I think if Jazz 2 were to become open-source, it would open up the community to modders and newbie coders who are interested in how an engine like Jazz's is set up. Could be very good for the community.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 07:10 AM   #173
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The only obstacle will be that there are only about 7 or 8 people active here at the moment. Maybe more like 10 or 15 if you include lurkers who occasionally show up. Still not a lot of people.
JCF/J2O is the worst place to find activity right now. Though to be frank, the activity of the community has been pretty segregated at the moment, due to varied interests.

Even my Jazz chatgroup is more active than JCF lol.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 09:46 AM   #174
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Even my Jazz chatgroup is more active than JCF lol.
Then let's try to talk about the source code there?
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Old August 6th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #175
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i would have to say the source code would benefit and maybe open new doors alongside jj2+ it could in theory remove most limitations and open endless new possibility's for add ons, and updates on certain drivers it uses.

also there is plenty that still play jj2 "now and then" we just need to energize them and motivate them to start playing jazz jackrabbit 2 more often again.

JJ2 is not dead, and it will not die, simple as that.

So i leave this note to say push forward keep trying and most importantly have fun doing jj2 stuff, whether its running j2o, or playing on a jj2 server, or making levels or music, or administrating a server, have fun and remember there always was and there is still hope for jazz jackrabbit 2...
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