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Another find

Leo(T.C.K.)

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Aug 20, 2018, 10:26 PM
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Thumbs up Another find

This time of another Jazz 2 Beta.

Version 0.98k. The E3 1997 beta in other words...

Now, this might sound silly but I don't know where one can get these days those OEM/magazine "leaked" versions anymore.

I would like if someone PM'd them to me so I could compare.

This new discovery of Jazz2 E3 beta doesn't belong to me, it belongs to a friend (Bryan).

But I'm the first one he shared this discovery with.
Leo(T.C.K.)

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Aug 20, 2018, 11:10 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but did any of the OEM version contain MS DOS executable for jazz2?
Because this one does.
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Care to post screenshots?

If this is true, this will be the oldest known surviving version of JJ2.
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Aug 20, 2018, 11:59 PM
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What do you mean if this is true? Anything I say is true.

There are no screenshots now but I will try to post some eventually.

There is a video though but I have to ask Bryan if it's okay to post.

The game has some issues running though but they can be bypassed by setting the compat mode etc right.

I'm still discovering/trying out things.
Leo(T.C.K.)

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Aug 21, 2018, 12:37 AM
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I may not post attachments?

Then no screenshots I'm afraid. None of the image uploading sites I tried now work for me. I know attaching on forums works though.

But this one seems to have it disabled on purpose. PM me if you want a screenshot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo(T.C.K.) View Post
I may not post attachments?

Then no screenshots I'm afraid. None of the image uploading sites I tried now work for me. I know attaching on forums works though.

But this one seems to have it disabled on purpose. PM me if you want a screenshot.
Imgur never fails.

Also, could your friend upload the version anywhere? That would be sweet.
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Aug 21, 2018, 09:52 AM
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JJ2 takes screenshots in .pcx and .tga formats, which are not very commonly used today, so I can understand if the image uploading sites you tried balked at them. I'll send you a PM.
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Aug 21, 2018, 10:25 AM
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That sounds fascinating, amazing how these things keep turning up after all these years. I hope people can collaborate on a solid comparison between this and other OEM versions, who knows what's hidden in this one. Excited to read more about this!
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Aug 21, 2018, 12:31 PM
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I just wanted to say that the reason I can't upload to those image hosting sites is because my browser doesn't support javascript.

If there's image hosting site that does not rely on javascript I'm all ears.

The forum attachment doesn't rely on it either and it just works.
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Aug 21, 2018, 01:45 PM
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I've added tga and pcx to the list of allowed extensions... see if that makes attaching the files to your post possible, if not I'll have to fiddle with some other settings.
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Aug 21, 2018, 01:53 PM
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But it says in "posting rules" that I may not add attachments. Don't know why. But it really says that here on this forum.

Or is it because I have less than some required number of posts?
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Right... does it work now? I can't test this myself since I'm an admin but I think it should be enabled for regular users too now, sorry for the hassle.
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Aug 21, 2018, 10:18 PM
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Alright, let's try this. I'm having trouble going back to the post after the attachment, I hope at least one appears when I post this now. If not I'll try to edit the post and add it.
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File Type: png jazz2bet.png (13.1 KB, 0 views)
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Aug 21, 2018, 10:41 PM
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Hello there, I'm new to the forum. Yes, I'm the guy (Bryan) who obtained this discovery, I do know I can't share this due to forum rules. But I do like to share this photo of the E3 CD + few floppies contained from the mail to the attachments.

Will possibly upload some screenshots of the prototype sometime, till then here's a (sadly Low Quality) Youtube video of me trying to run it at first.

https://youtu.be/QgPdq2IdsWw
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File Type: jpg 39616336_306039416827753_3886670331699527680_n.jpg (221.2 KB, 0 views)
Leo(T.C.K.)

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Aug 22, 2018, 12:13 AM
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I'm running into a bug with this version of the browser that if (I better not explain it because I'm not the technical type to understand this properly)..
What it comes down to is that if certain conditions are met, anything past 14k won't get sent, so I had to mangle the images for them to fit, there were still more screens I took but this will have to do for right now.
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File Type: jpg jazz2betlabrat.jpg (13.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg jazz2betlabrat3.jpg (13.7 KB, 0 views)
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Aug 22, 2018, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaratusII View Post
Hello there, I'm new to the forum. Yes, I'm the guy (Bryan) who obtained this discovery,
Welcome, and congratulations! I've sent you a private message with a question.
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Aug 22, 2018, 04:33 AM
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I've listed my findings in this new beta here. Wow! Some of this is seriously bizarre, yet cool!
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this is one awesome find
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Leo(T.C.K.)

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Aug 24, 2018, 10:58 AM
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There is actually a little more jazz2 related stuff, some pictures of previous versions/concept art that could be interesting to share.

And a couple of more text files. I'll leave it up to Bryan to post here if he wants.
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Aug 24, 2018, 04:45 PM
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Well, I'm always a big fan of pictures of previous versions--even if they're duplicates of ones we've already seen, they might be higher resolution or something!
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Aug 24, 2018, 05:21 PM
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Text files?


If those are anything like the design docs from the Jazz 3 stuff you put out, those could be a real treat.
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Aug 24, 2018, 08:30 PM
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Unfortunately no, not design docs. This is all stuff that was supplied on that CD.

Unfortunately there was very little of Unreal and Wheel of Time, just some screenshots and empty directories. (I am still looking for a couple of Unreal betas that might be floating around but difficult to get in practice, one reportedly containing a file called "child3.umx" and might have been part of another ISO)

What is playable on the CD was the jazz2 beta, ravage racers, seventh legion alpha (can't get it to run properly). And well, that's it, the rest are presentations of games/screenshots.

It was intended for the press.
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Aug 24, 2018, 11:47 PM
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Would be amazing to see the screenshots.
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Aug 25, 2018, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo(T.C.K.) View Post
Unfortunately no, not design docs. This is all stuff that was supplied on that CD.

Unfortunately there was very little of Unreal and Wheel of Time, just some screenshots and empty directories. (I am still looking for a couple of Unreal betas that might be floating around but difficult to get in practice, one reportedly containing a file called "child3.umx" and might have been part of another ISO)

What is playable on the CD was the jazz2 beta, ravage racers, seventh legion alpha (can't get it to run properly). And well, that's it, the rest are presentations of games/screenshots.

It was intended for the press.
Ah, I see.
Still, sounds really interesting. I'd love to get my hands on the stuff from this press disc.
I'm curious, though; do the floppies contain the same contents as the CD, or is that different Epic stuff? (Looking at the picture Baratusll posted)

(BTW, I sent you a PM )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo4900 View Post
(BTW, I sent you a PM )
Me too.
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Leo(T.C.K.)

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Aug 26, 2018, 09:13 PM
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You have to wait for Baratus II to post the screenshots.

As for the floppies, acording to Bryan a lot of it has been replaced by personal files or something, but there is still possibility that if he makes image out of it I could explore it with someone properly.

There might be stuff he looked over. Either way I don't have the contents of the floppies in any form currently, still waiting for any of that myself but it's most likely most of it can't be seen by public if it contains personal things. But if there's anything jazz related, perhaps via "undeleted files" or something (it is apparently possible to see what was there before if image of a floppy is made and you explore it with proper tools, I'm not the expert on this however) then that will be worth something, but we'll have to see.
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Hey, amazing find there! I never thought something like this would surface after all these years.

Besides Violet's additions to the wiki entry on Beta's, Hopefully any audiovisual changes can be salvaged and shared as imagery sometime. That Epic logo looks oddly cartoonish.
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Aug 27, 2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaz View Post
Besides Violet's additions to the wiki entry on Beta's, Hopefully any audiovisual changes can be salvaged and shared as imagery sometime. That Epic logo looks oddly cartoonish.
It's conveniently inside the anims file, whose format is close enough to the final .j2a format that I was able to decompile it in good time. Here you go.
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Did you manage to find out if the DOS executables actually work? And if so, at what video resolution does the game run in DOS mode? According to an old interview with Nick Stadler they were shooting for 320x200, just like JJ1. So that is why I am curious.
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I can get the DOS executable to show me the intro sequences, the main menu, and the level loading screen, but not any actual gameplay. (I think Shadow was able to get levels to play, though.) It's all in the general area of 320x200, though the resolution appears to change while showing Dean's animated intro.
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Interesting thing I noticed in the Readme included in this beta...
Quote:
MLLE

I’ve included a version of MLLE, the Jazz2 editor. It might be missing a couple of DLL’s; I’m not sure what it needs. I assure you that if it doesn’t work this time it will the next time around.

Here is all you really need to know:

E - Event Window. Choose an event, click OK, and the event is there.

Right click on every main window to see options. You can choose various layers and edit them individually. (properties as well)

Everything else is Windows easy.
The beta does not seem to include a copy of MLLE, as claimed by the readme, and the readme also details many cheat codes that don't work(A couple that do, though. It lists "JJTIMSGIRLFRIEND" as a cheat code it described as "For programmers." Doing "JJTIMSGIRL" seemed to toggle showing the framerate in my experimenting), so I feel like the readme was for an even earlier version, and was mistakenly included on the CD.


There's also a text file called ChangesLT.txt, which isn't massively interesting, but contains a few mildly neat tidbits...
Quote:
- increased speed of zipping/dezipping routines for file compression (new level format
coming, one of the first things in the USA)


- cheatcodes:
"jjguns",
"jjgod",
"jjshield",
"jjpower",
"jjd", //debug
"jjcpu", //cpu stats : writes CPU stats in LOG, gives percentages spent on AI/graphics etc
"jjkill",
"jjquit",
"jjinv",
"jjfly",
"jjnowall",
"jjlight",
"jjammo",
"jjgems",
"jjfire",
"jjnext",
"jjmorph",
"jjrush",
"jjbird",
"jjq",
"jjk",
"jjnxt", //NEXT LEVEL!
"jjt"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo4900 View Post
Doing "JJTIMSGIRL" seemed to toggle showing the framerate in my experimenting)
Pressing the R key does that.
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Aug 28, 2018, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet CLM View Post
I can get the DOS executable to show me the intro sequences, the main menu, and the level loading screen, but not any actual gameplay. (I think Shadow was able to get levels to play, though.) It's all in the general area of 320x200, though the resolution appears to change while showing Dean's animated intro.
I'm interested about how he got the levels to run then, because they freeze up for me too, just display the beginning of the level text and then it freezes.
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Aug 28, 2018, 06:48 AM
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As for the editor, well...
it must have been just a leftover text file from a previous beta, stuff like that happens all the time.
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Shadow wasn't too specific about his findings but he mentioned an emulated Windows 95, and an old computer with DOS 6.0.
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Sep 16, 2018, 06:13 AM
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Okay I give permission to whoever has been shared with the full disk image to upload and show the images here (and the text files).

I cannot get hold of Bryan at the moment and I hope he's fine.
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