An entry into a new forum, a new user's debut

[Baggers]

Hi, there
Firstly i have browsed this site before for research of a project i am working on, and im not sure how often you hear it but yes it is a 3D jazz jackrabbit game, inspired by game 2.

Ok so now originaly i wasnt planning on joining this forum however a member of this forum (spoke to me as 'Violet CLM') notice my project on a programmers forum (Dark Basic Pro Forums) and suggest i come over here as you lot would want to put in your input, and on that basis here i am.

My Goal
======
Simple, to recreate the style of jazz jackrabbit2, something I consider ignored nowerdays by most game developers. Jazz worked brilliantly and i thought "is it possible this could work in 3D, so i started work. I have been programming on and off for 4 years and so i knocked up a start very quickly. They thing I suck at is modeling.
So to atract help i posted for help in my forums, and thats where Violet CLM found my work on a google search !

Right this is not a money making project, this is a attempt to make a stylistic and fun game that does some justice to the orignal. I have started and i have a couple of screenshots though they are not impressive as my skill is in coding not graphics ( On that note if there is anyone who would like to contribute their skill in modeling to this game and do not require any reward other than being in the credits please email me at Chris. Bagley@gmail.com)

http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/TheProblem.jpg
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Concept2.jpg
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzJackrabbit3DPic1.jpg
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzJackrabbit3DPic2.jpg

ok folks, so my main request is your knowledge on how to port this game to 3D without losing the style or gameplay, all comments wellcome I can take constructive criticism.

as a final note once completed this game will be released totaly free source on the dark basic pro forums, for others to learn how to make these games. also a level editor is in progress so your own levels can be imported.

Thanks in advance for any help you can bring
Chris

[Radium]

Hello, and welcome to the forums.

As for recreating the style, I think you should pay a lot of attention to how the camera angle works. In 2D games the "camera angle" is fairly simple; it's a cross section view of the world. The camera angles in 3D games tend to be a bit more annoying - they either always stick right behind the character or swivel around chaotically. My suggestion (not that I'm all that good at ideas such as this) is to try to create something that keeps viewing the player from one angle (platformer-ish) but can turn if the player changes direction. Also, make sure the camera is far away enough to show what is going on around the player, but close enough that you can tell what the character is doing.

I've done a bit of modelling, but I'm no good at 3D Max. There are some others here who are, though. They will no doubt respond bragging about their superiority.

[Baggers]

Thanks for the input, The modeling doesnt have to be 3DSmax , I use milkshape.
The files i use in game are normaly '.X' files but aslong as i can import them into milkshape ill take anything !
Yeah i know what you mean about the camera, as i havnt got into heavily coding it yet I have just got it following the character but yes I will have a go with your ideas or any other that come up. Are there any 3D games you can think of that did this style of camera well? If there are i will have a look at them and see how i could reproduce it.

[n00b]

I can only think of a few games with a fixed camera in 3d, and those are along the lines of Vietiful Joe or Yoshi's Story. But Im probally thinking too in the box.

[Stijn]

Solving the problem in pic 1:

The turtle currently just moves around aimlessy. If you would make him charge, or even chase the character, if it comes near, it will probably be harder to avoid.

[Violet CLM]

Yeah, but the standard turtles/lizards are supposed to be really dumb, right? It makes more sense for enemies like Doggy Doggs, who charge at you, or Fat Chicks, who turn towards you if you come close.

[Fawriel]

Hey, this looks quite promising.

As for the problem... I agree with Unknown. For dumb enemies like the turtles, they could just walk around, more or less randomly changing the direction. Of course,the directions to turn to should be restricted to those lying diagonally in front of the turtle ( them suddenly turning around would be weird ).
A smarter enemy could walk around in the same way, but approach you when he gets close and then charge at you when he's even closer.

[Radium]

I agree with Unknown. For dumb enemies like the turtles, they could just walk around, more or less randomly changing the direction.
To move randomly in three dimentions is suicide. The probability of reaching the player is too low for it to be considered an "enemy".

[Fawriel]

That depends on the size and speed of the enemy...

[Baggers]

In essence Radium is correct, totaly random movement does not work for enemies, however Fawriel seemed to suggest almost random destinations which is plausable. Just as a side note i have previously written pathfinding code so this can easily be implemented.
The turtles due to their stupid nature are a little bit of a challege, things like the flying goons are so much easier as their movement was quite dynamic. I could just set up a number of waypoints for turtles to patrol, thus they have their predictable movement, but if you get withing a certain distance they move to attack, I do feel their standard movement should be composed of straight lines rather than moving more freely. Any thoughts

(Or any modelers !)

[Stijn]

By the way, the screenshots vaguely remind me of Rayman 2 ;)

[DoubleGJ]

As for a 3D game, the AI should be improved for all enemies. Let's face it, enemies in JJ2 are all quite dumb (only Devan can duck and he still does that badly, Sparks' tactic is way predictable), but that's mainly because that isn't all so important in a 2D sidescroller. In 3D, the aiming is more accurate and we approach the enemies by more complicated means. So, if the turtles currently just wander around and bite when we're close, in 3D they should approach the player and then try to bite him. Doggy doggs should be even more intelligent, retreating when shot and then coming again, attacking from behind by making circles around the player, maybe even jump over the lower shot bullets.

About your need for modellers - I barely can model too, but if you need a bg music, that's something I could help with. A bit.

[Baggers]

Thanks For all your input, I've just put a little video up so thought you guys might like to see it, Im just about to try a little texture work (will be a new world for me!), im afraid the video aint much, ive just put in collecting of ammo, in the video you see the bouncy ammo (cant remeber the name of it) which spins and bobs like the actualy game.
Here it is then folks, and a new screenshot.
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3D-Video1.avi
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzJackrabbit3DPic3.jpg
Thats all folks !

[Radium]

I really like the speed of movement in the video. From the mid-air jumping, I assume the placeholder-golfball is Spaz, right?

[n00b]

The video was awesome, however I suggest making what I'm guessing are springs (the red pads in the ground) Look a bit more like springs and not pads.
Yep.

[Baggers]

@Radium - Ah yes golf ball Spaz...hehe i think i might play on the fact it looks so weird by giving it a golfball texture for now... ill post a pic of that soon ! The game does play at a nice speed when you get used to the other dimentions, i need to build another level to test in though because you get used to bits and i can do them backwards now! Yeah i can see the really good players getting some cool stuff done on this.

@Noob - Thanks for the compliments, yeah as i said the models arnt good !...i will have a go though, i'll see what I can do until I cant get a modeler !

Thanks again people

[n00b]

Heh, I've just thought of this crazy idea... Have the Golfball Spaz be a secret character. One of those "Highlight Jazz and press up 15 times and then the G key 7, then select Spaz and press down 8 times and the S key 3 then choose Spaz and go into the second episode. You'll hear some crazy guy yell out "FORE!" if you did it right. Now go back to the character select screen. Golfball Jazz should now be playable" kind of secrets. If I ever fully figure out Milkshape if that trial still works I might be able to help out, but not for long.

[Monolith]

Interesting work.

In that first image you posted that contained "TheProblem", I wouldn't call that a problem. That challange of getting past the enemy turtle is part of the gameplay. Simply by expanding to a 3D world, you're reducing the challange and so already effecting the gameplay. But since you're already focused on doing this in a 3D world, lets try to see how much you can carry over, and what needs to be modified.

For the environment in relation to gameplay, there are enclosed/indoor areas, open/hilly areas, and some actual platforms. In your working area right now, it appears you only have platforms. You should probably try getting in the other two types of environments because working in each of them might bring up extra problems and challanges. Figuring out what to do with the camera so that it'll work for each of those different types of gameplay environments would be one such challange.

I'm not really sure what best to do with the camera in any case really right now though.

For enemies, you probably should have to fight your way around them, so that would be done through their placement and modified movement. Otherwise all their stats could probably be the same (not that they really have much stats).

And umm.. I have nothing else in mind right now.


What are you using to make this?

[Radium]

What are you using to make this?
Dark Basic Pro, I assume from his first post. I've done a bit of work with DBPro, but not enough to make anything... relevant.

[Baggers]

Monolityh, what you describe at the start of your post IS the problem, the fact that the challenge is reduced, and so as you say some of the style is altered.
As Radium said, yep i am using Dark Basic Pro.
And thanks for your camera advice I have just made another little level to play in, and obviously i will be testing in all the environments, that first "level" if it can be called that, wasjust enough to make sure than my collision routines and such were working, now its time for a little more.

@Noob: Hehe why not, ill put that in for you, will be a really anticlimax for him just to be a golfball but, itll be funny!

Thanks for the interest !

[Olsen]

This sure is really cool!

[n00b]

@Noob: Hehe why not, ill put that in for you, will be a really anticlimax for him just to be a golfball but, itll be funny!
Thanks! WHOOO! Now I've got something odd to look forward too

[Baggers]

UPDATE AND NEW VIDEO

Hey people, just a wee update to tell you what ive been upto what ive been up to (This is pretty much copied from the Programming forums so if i do get a bit techy i appolagise !):

* Firstly ive been experimenting with the camera, and for now im only smooting the y-rotation as having the camera follow the y movement smoothly can result in the character going off the screen or it just being plain hard to judge jumps.

* Ive been working on an 'Animated Scenery' routine, which now works perfectly, this means i can easily set up animation for objects that are part of the level, such as moving platforms and such. In the Video both the rotating plant/lift thing and the moving platform are running on this routine, the later using the waypoint function.

* The last big change isnt shown in the video but is a 'Trail System', this records where an object has been and its rotation for the last x-period of time, the values are automatically updated and easily retrived and i will be using it for effects such as the one shown bellow.
Http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/TrailPic.jpg

And now the Video !
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video02.avi

Ok people, please continue the comments they do really help, and anyone wishing to help in the form of models or textures please post here or mail me.

Any ideas on what i should concentrat on next? what would you like to see in this game? do you have any opinions on how 3D platformers of any kind should behave?....Post your views here !

Thanks again people
Chris

p.s. The video is a little slower than the actual game due to the slow down due to fraps.

[n00b]

I would like to see some of the levels/enemies/bosses(Deckstar,the demons in Deserto,Zoonik) from JJ1 return in this game.
You should concentrate on making some hills next.
And using the ammo system from JJ3 might be a cool idea as well.
What sucks is that I figure out Milkshape when I have 4 days left, and that was 2 days ago, otherwise I'd help modeling.
Edit-I can't believe I forgot this, Nice video.

[Baggers]

Thanks noob ! hills are no problem ill stick in one soon, the code already works for this. In regards to the JJ3 ammo style, if thats the one where the weapon charges up, then id really rather not. I probably will be shunned for this but i didnt really like the look of JJ3, first it was more of a RPG than fast packed shooter, Other than the jazz model alot of that obscure, pointlessly jazzy look to it had been toned down and it was looking more like alot of other games.
Maybe i would have been completly wrong but I really want to feel of the second game.

Right now i have alienated myself from the forum community i will stop talking other than to say thanks for the comments, they really keep me going !
Chris

[n00b]

True, thats why I said 'might', because either way I wouldn't care.
Now, the weapon charge can be put to good use if you're in an area with tons of enemies and running out of ammo is ineviteble(sp?), so I guess what I'm suggesting is have as an option to use the charger in levels made with the level editor if it's not going to take forever to put in or screw up the whole game.

[DoubleGJ]

My opinion... Is like this. Tho' you might not like it.

There's ammo scattered, you can take it and use it in your Blaster. However, there are also some weapons in the game. If you pick up a Bouncer weapon, you can only use Bouncer ammo in it, but it either becomes more powerful (PU), shoots faster (Fast Fire effect) or shoots in a pack of 3, 5 bullets (that would be fun for Bouncer). There is a lot that might come to mind here. Of course, let's not forget bonuses from JJ2. They are the perfect place to buy ultra1337 ammo and guns.

As for the infinite Blaster ammo... Let's make it closer to Dispersion Pistol from Unreal. The gun drains energy from environment to shoot, but if you shoot fast enough, you might run out of batteries. Then you have to wait a few seconds until it reloads. But find an upgrade, and you might have more powerful shots, longer living battery, stuff like that.

Overall, the guns are the JJ basis, so they should be more, harder and deadlier!

[Fawriel]

Hm. The video looked nice overall, but there were some graphical problems. It seemed to be hard to aim for any moving platforms, and in the beginning, it was even hard to tell where the ground level changes because it was all just, well, green...
I'm not sure how to change that. Maybe make things further away from the character blur or something...

[Baggers]

Heya people, thanks for the comments, ill try and answer the suggestions!
@Fawriel: Hehe yeah sorry about the tonne of similar colour, im not a modeler, but ill go and change it just so its a little more visable, ill probably be investing in a light mapper soon so shadows and such will be incorperated. Also im going to make the platforms slightly easier to land on, they are actualy easier than they look like most of the time, you dont slide off the pumpkin easily if you were wondering that.

@?JSZ¿ JaZz!: I love the cluster shot idea, i really am going to have to incorperate that in some way ! I see what you mean about the infinite blaster idea, i will install unreal and have a play ... seems perfectly feasable though

@Noob: Im interested in he charger idea, I will be bearing that in mind later, nice one...might be for some kind of temporary sheild, like the bonuses from JJ2 but with re-charging...or something, will be fun finding out though !

Thanks people, ive got some more people interested in modeling though so hopefulyl should have some more models soon !
Keep the ideas flowing !
I might start the shooting very soon. Keep your eyes peeled for an update within a few days.

[DoubleGJ]

Im interested in he charger idea, I will be bearing that in mind later, nice one...might be for some kind of temporary sheild, like the bonuses from JJ2 but with re-charging...or something, will be fun finding out though !
Maybe something like one of power-ups in Sonic Robo Blast 2, which gave you unlimited ammo (rings actually) for a short period of time.

[Baggers]

Hey again people, just got back from camping and am continuing work on the shooting. Got the first gun working (except the explosion when the bullet hits something, that will come later)
I am now working on the second gun however I am pndering on how to get that same crazy bouncy action, as it doesnt just bounce, it lists almost eratically and i was wondering if anyone could poder up either the maths or just the logic behind the pellet's motion. I have a feeling that it is changing the gravity direction for the pellet, but im not totally sure. Ill keep experimenting though! Seeyou around!

p.s. '?JSZ¿ JaZz!' I am going to impliment your cluster shot idea and possibly the chargeup of weapons aswell, the thing then is the interface, I loved the minimilistic approcah in the first game, how you you think it should be veiwed in this game, would just a little icon next to the gun surfice ? the icon could show what style of shot ie: Normal, Cluster, Power shot...etc. Any ideas?

[Stijn]

The video doesn't work.

and ++jazz3 >8(

[Radium]

I am now working on the second gun however I am pndering on how to get that same crazy bouncy action, as it doesnt just bounce, it lists almost eratically and i was wondering if anyone could poder up either the maths or just the logic behind the pellet's motion. I have a feeling that it is changing the gravity direction for the pellet, but im not totally sure. Ill keep experimenting though! Seeyou around!
Well, I played around with the powered bouncer for a while (in no ways an organized experiment), and this is what I think:
-it usually bounces like a regular ball would, but occasionally (usually on its later bounces) just simply reverses direction (bounces backwards)
-sometimes, when it hits another surface, its gravity direction seems to change towards that surface. This causes it to bounce up walls sometimes and off walls others.

[Baggers]

@sers^^: Oh sorry forgot to change the link. Here it is...http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video02.avi (i have edited the link at the top aswell)

@Radium: Cool thanks yeah I was hoping for something like that, ok ive got an idea how to do that, should look great in 3D !

@all: The particle routine is currently being worked on and is going to look good, that is the bit that will handle smoke, sparks, twinkles,etc ...!

<Edit>
More news !
Just finished the particle system for the game, works beautifuly, you cans et points for the particles to be emmited, these are particle sources: A particle source can be static (PIC1) or it can be locked onto an object (PIC2)
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Particles1.jpg

Also I have just tested the system for other effects such as the little explosion when bullets hit walls so here is a little video (536k) to show that working.
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video03.avi

Hope you think its going well, ill keep you posted.

[Odin]

Looks pretty solid. What are you using?

[Baggers]

DarkBasicPro for the programming, Milkshape for models (though not very well !) and FRAPS to take the movies and screenshots and for sprite ripping.

[Stijn]

Did you play Razz Arena, Baggers?

[Baggers]

No, i tried to look at the site not long back but it wasnt working.

[Violet CLM]

Is that going to be the actual resolution? If so, the hearts and lives icons are going to be pretty tiny. I suggest getting bigger versions.
I'll look at the videos when I can figure out how to play .avi's.

[Baggers]

Nope the pics are just shrunk for the sake of bandwidth, and people not killing me on forums!
The resolution in that it very high, the HUD resizes itself depending on the resolution so it looks correct whether its running in 640x480 or 1280x960 (which is what I normaly run it in)

I watched the videos in winamp, but they work fine inmedia player too, you just need the DivX codec, which i gave a link for a few posts up. Hope it works.

Thanks for continued interest, Oh a final question, based on the idea of having different fire modes as suggested earlier in this thread, what kinds of fire modes would you want, and on what guns ? Also does anyone have any concept ideas for new weapons, styles, enemies or powerups ?

[n00b]

I would like to see more enemies that shot at you if you were close enough. In Jazz 2 the only enemy that did that which I can think of was a monkey. Give Lizards, turtles, and the 'Demon Scourge'(What I call anything the somewhat resembles Bilsy and Bolly) guns or fire attacks or something.
Oh, and enemy concept: The Demon Scourge, which is an army commanded by Bilsy and Bubba and the soilders in someway resemble them. Two examples I can think of are the demons from Jazz 2 and the floating demon... things from HH94. I think the demonish things in Deserto could qaulify.
I dunno I'm thinking waaay to 12-year oldish on ideas right now.

Edit-Changed a name

[Risp_old]

The mad hatters shot at you.

I say there should be enemies that 'shoot at you' by extending body parts. Like having an inspector gadget-esque extrendo-robotic arm. Maybe they could grab onto you and drag you to them.

[Baggers]

No Noob, your ideas are perfect...lets me know what youd like to see and even if i dont do it exactly I can use it for inspiration for other ideas. Your idea obviously was valid though as risp wants something similar.
I like that idea Risp, yeah body part attacks would be cool, that would be interesting to code...hmm sparking a few ideas, well when i get onto enemy coding i'll have some good ammo !

Talking of ammo, i am working on the bouncers (i dont know what they are called the blue/puprle bouncy ammo) and the results so far have just been rather funny !...alot of chaos, so ive still got alot to do on that weapon !

[Odin]

That's what they're called, Baggers.

Also, what about enemies that can 'mirror' what you do? For instance, if you run towards it, it runs away. If you jump, it ducks. If you duck, it jumps. And so on.

Also, be sure it 'mirrors' as soon as it sees you, not at the start of the level. Otherwise, that would be bad.

[Violet CLM]

Talking of ammo, i am working on the bouncers (i dont know what they are called the blue/puprle bouncy ammo)
Blue Bouncer Bullets. But call them Bouncers and everyone will understand you.

Edit: Schwarzenguard uses a Flailerang.

[Baggers]

Thanks,
Odin, the mirror idea i like, and would be easy enough to make too, i'll have to work on the challenge though because if he''s running away from you he's not really a threat!...however if he shot things he'd be a real pain !

Oh i finished the Bouncers, i couldnt do the gravity moving in the end...well i guess thats not true, i did it...but in 3D its harder to make the constraints so they ended up being kinda annoyin, so now they just bounce. I have a little video of it here, as always feel free to comment on it !
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video04.avi
Thanks for the help

[n00b]

Gah! How could I forget my favorite enemy could shoot? Well technically it's the dormouse that shoots at you... but no matter or something.
Building on what Risp said with the mechanical body parts, it'd be cool to see that in a boss. Like a cross between the Mech Turtle from JJA and the Schwazengaurd...
First it'd use it's tried and true Something-rang(can't think of the name) and if that misses, he'll try to attack you with a super arm until the 'rang came back. Once he's low on health he'll throw more than one 'rang at different times. If all else fails, he uses a cannon in his stomach and mimics your ammo to attack you. Only the ammo would be a pwered up version.
Edit- And it seems the BBB has made a nice transition into 3d, I wonder how it plays

[Fawriel]

Hmm, if you need enemy ideas, there was a thread or two about what kind of bosses we'd make if we could.. I'll go look for them later.

[DoubleGJ]

p.s. '?JSZ¿ JaZz!' I am going to impliment your cluster shot idea and possibly the chargeup of weapons aswell, the thing then is the interface, I loved the minimilistic approcah in the first game, how you you think it should be veiwed in this game, would just a little icon next to the gun surfice ? the icon could show what style of shot ie: Normal, Cluster, Power shot...etc. Any ideas?
You know, I have A LOT ideas for weapons. Though they're not very conservative, but still I think they fit JJ well. Here's an example weapon list.

1. Blasters
a) LFG-2000 (Jazz's basic) - shoots light energy shots, which don't do much damage, but since the energy is drained from the environment into the gun's battery, the ammo is pretty much infinite. If you shoot fast enough you might use up energy faster than it recharges, but in such occasion hide for a moment or switch the weapon to let it recharge. You can also hold down the shoot key to charge a more powerful shot, but it'll take more energy.
b) LFG-3000 (Spaz's basic) - the difference from LFG-2000 is that it shoots faster, but the shots are less accurate. The battery is a bit stronger, so even with this fast shooting energy will run out with the same speed as in LFG-2000.
c) LFG-1500 (Lori's basic) - the difference from LFG-2000 is that it shoots energy bullets in a shape of a disc - they deal more damage, but use up the battery faster.
d) LFG-4000 - shoots three energy bullets at once - has thrice stronger battery than LFG-2000, so battery drains with same speed.
e) LFG-5000 - shoots an energy ball that spreads into 10 typical blaster shots on impact - has only twice stronger battery than LFG-2000, so needs to recharge pretty much.
f) extra battery - can be connected to character's basic blaster, lets you shoot longer before you'll need to stop.
g) accumulator - can be connected to character's basic blaster, increases damage dealt by shots but also uses up batteries faster. Basically more power -> bigger need for batteries, so hunt them down with same effort.
h) interface update - can be connected to character's basic blaster, lets you use 2nd level ammo (powered-up ones from Jazz2) in the blaster.

2. Bouncers
a) using in your basic blaster - you can use basic bouncy bullets (blue), or 2nd level (purple) if you got an update for it. That way you shoot them like in Jazz2, with normal speed (even in LFG-3000).
b) BBT-21 - supports blue and purple bouncy bullets, shoots them with big speed, but the rest is like blaster.
c) BBT-3:1 - supports blue, purple and black bouncy ammo, shoots three bullets at once in different, random angles.
d) BBT-S15X - supports blue and purple bouncy ammo, shoots with great power, so the bullets either fly very far or bounce off walls very aggresively.
e) blue ammo - slightly more damage than blaster shot, lightweight.
f) purple ammo - more damage, heavier than blue, but also more bouncy.
g) black ammo - highly explosive, heavier than purple, but as bouncy as it is.
h) visor - compatible with BBT-S15X, lets you zoom the vision for sniping far positioned enemies.

See as I just killed the Fast Fire pickup. ^^ There will be more to come if you like my ideas. Now, about the HUD appearance - anyone remember the weapon box from JJ1? How it contained the weapon's name and an example of bullet's track? That's the option. I'd also implement a pause feature from Ratchet & Clank, that lets you read weapons' descriptions in the pause menu (there was also same thing for special moves, but I doubt we'd need it).

[cooba]

The Demon Scourge, which is an army commanded by Bilsy and BollyAnd Bubba? You forgot Bubba.

^{Since when Bolly is a demon, anyway?}

[Risp_old]

I think he was confusing bolly and bubba.

[Radium]

Bolly is certainly more demonic looking than Bubba.

[n00b]

I did get them confused, I seem to rgister Bolly with Bilsy because the two names are somewhat simillar.

[Baggers]

Christ, this thread is really picking up speed !

Ok a little progress: I have included the little puffs of smoke when bullets are deleted. ok that wasnt much but it looks cool, especially when lots of bouncers get deleted, I have also checked that the gun system could handle the flame thrower and that will be easy, all i have to do is rip the sprites now...ugh its so boring doing that, I much prefer the coding !

Not exactly sure what to work on now, maybe more weapons but when I get to rockets i'll need some enemies, hmm we shall see ! ...WAIT got it !...im going to get the blocks working ! excelent !
Laters people, keep up these ideas they are great, im learning a fair bit from them.

[Odin]

If you want, i'll come up with other bullet ideas.

[Baggers]

Hey again, just another brief update with a pic of the shootable blocks working. Its great seeing the Bouncers take out the blocks!

@Odin: Feel free man, all ideas welcome here!

Heres the Piccy:
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Walls1.jpg

[Risp_old]

It would be interesting to have more block types. Like blocks that must be shot at from a certain distance, or blocks that normally are unsold but become sold when you shoot them. Also, enemies that pretend to be blocks would be interesting.

[Radium]

blocks that normally are unsold but become sold when you shoot them.
How much do they cost? =D

[n00b]

Hey Baggers, I could rip for you. I actualy like ripping.
Idea for the Flamethrower!
Basing it off of the Weapon system thought up by JSZ Jazz
Flamethrower
a) The Basic flamethower can fire Red and Blue flames, at a slow speed.
b) BBT-21 - supports blue and purple bouncy bullets, shoots them with big speed, but the rest is like blaster.
c) Toaster X6- Supports Red and Blue flames flamethrower-esque with speed, but can also shoot the flames Jazz 1 styled if a Back-Up disc(Or a Shareware disc) is found.
d) Burniator(I couldn't think of another name)- Supports red,blue, and white flames, 'sprays' them farther and with the speed of the Toaster. Blue ammo used with this gun shoots out like meteors to cause mini-explosions.
e) red ammo - 1&3/4 more damage than the blaster
f) blue ammo - more damage, also turns enemies black(charred) if they are killed by this weapon
g) white ammo - White ammo is very hot and some must be left behind(you lose a peice of ammo every once in awhile) so the gun doesn't overheat, If used with the back-up disc, this ammo fires three-way, and slightly grows the farther it goes. This growth adds no extra damage, but attracts nearby 'lesser' enemies to it.
h) Back-Up/Shareware Disk - This old copy of Jazz Jackrabbit can be used with the Toaster X6 to revert the gun back to an earlier form. This disk can be ejected (but not nesercairly retreived) if the player no longer wants this function.

[Baggers]

@Noob: I like the idea of using the old Cd as a key to bonus features, ill have to have a look at that, for the bits when you say JJ1 style please explain as I only played the second one, thanks.....oh almost forgot, if you do like ripping graphics i would be so grateful if you woud for me, at the moment i would love the little animations of the weapons for the hud (the stuff that apears in the bottom right corner) from JJ2 if thats ok with you ?

@Risp: The enmies that descise themselves as blocks is a great idea, and will definatly be in the game, thanks for that!

[Violet CLM]

@Noob: I like the idea of using the old Cd as a key to bonus features, ill have to have a look at that, for the bits when you say JJ1 style please explain as I only played the second one, thanks.....
http://www.dutchfurs.com/~haze/?cat=files&dir=files/pc/shareware
oh almost forgot, if you do like ripping graphics i would be so grateful if you woud for me, at the moment i would love the little animations of the weapons for the hud (the stuff that apears in the bottom right corner) from JJ2 if thats ok with you ?
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/jazzworld/jj2guns.html

[Fawriel]

Whoa. Sorry. I forgot.

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=11094
http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=5593

( ..don't mind my post in the second link. It's old. I was young and needed the money. )

Also, it would be interesting to see an enemy you'd have to run into at full speed to defeat..

[DoubleGJ]

As said before, more for the list.

3. Freezing guns
a) character's basic blaster - supports ice cubes and N charged cubes, needs to reload after each shot (temperature precautions), freezes enemies and you can crash them into pieces with a shot or hit (Jazz2 feature), but you can also shoot the ground to make it slippy (for you too!).
b) Frostbiter N-11 - supports normal and N charged cubes, needs to reload after each 5 shots, you can charge up your shot to freeze the enemy for longer (feature borrowed from Metroid games).
c) Frosteater N12U08 - supports normal, N charged cubes and U charged cubes, no need to reload.
d) Frostswallower N15U10 - supports normal, N charged cubes and U charged cubes, shoots 10 cubes at once, giving a diffusion effect to normal shots. Charged shot takes up to whooping 50 cubes, spreading packs of 10 into a regular shape. Each of these gets a diffusion effect.
e) T-Amplifier - you need a Frost-series weapon to use it. With it turned on, you slowly lose ice cubes, but your gun emanates with frost, freezing enemies that are close enough. Be careful, using it for too long will freeze you too!
f) ice cubes - freeze enemies shortly, and they even don't work on certain enemies (heat-based?).
g) N charged ice cubes - freeze enemies for longer, can even shortly freeze most resisant enemies.
h) U charged ice cubes - freeze enemies shorter than U charged ones, but still longer than normal. Deal small damage to frozen enemies.

No time to write more right now, but be prepared for my crazed seeker propositions! My goal - stop them from being so freaking boring!

[Baggers]

Hey there, your talk about the ice is very cool (god i didnt even notice that pun till i re-read this post..) and i have an idea to check with you.
If you have seen demolition man you will get a good image of this, you spray round a solution which does nothing speicial on its own but can then be activated and it all freezes... i guess similar to lighting napalm in unreal2 (that was cool !)
What do you think, any good ?
Those links are great aswell, youll be seeing those animations in the game very soon!

[DoubleGJ]

Yeah, might be a very cool idea. Maybe some sort of frosty pipe bomb (I sensed similarity to DN3D pipe bomb therefore I came up with such name, shame me), containing 10 ice cubes or so - first throw it like a grenade, then use the shoot key once more to detonate it. And now...

4. Seekers
a) character's basic blaster - supports white heat-seeking rockets (orange also if you have the upgrade). Normally, just shoots the rocket straight forward. Aim at a heat spot (enemies, but you may accidently lock on fire or stuff like that) for two seconds to lock on, then fire and the rocket will slighty seek the object's movement.
b) HSRL-1 "Seeker" - supports white and orange rockets. Has a better detection system, which means it won't lock on most environmental heat signs. The lock-on time is still 2 seconds, but rockets hunt down targets in a better manner.
c) HSRL-2 "Hunter" - supports white and orange rockets. Hardly improved system decreases the lock-on time to 1 second and does not lock on lifeless objects, but that also means it LOST the ability to seek machines. Rockets now hunt enemies down very aggresively, so they'll need to hide behind a wall or something to don't get hit. And they better do that FAST.
d) SeeKannon XP4 - supports white, orange and brown rockets. This is certainly a heavy weapon - it'll slow you down and make your jumps lower. However, it's size is mostly a system of advanced seeking devices, and that means immediate lock-on (just aim at the target), no problems with environmental heat or finding robots.
e) SeeKrazy PTF - supports only brown rockets. Immiediately locks on enemies, but you can lock on only AFTER you shot the rocket. Then the gun communicates with the rocket and it takes the aim. It's advantage is that it doesn't slow you down and still has the same intelligence features as SeeKannon XP4.
f) Rocket Pilot v3.1 - this small toy is compatible only with special black rockets. Once the rocket is shot, camera takes it's point of view and you can steer it. At any point (for example if your character is being attacked) you can push the shoot key and you'll lose control over the rocket, but will be able to move again.
g) white rockets - take only a bit more damage than blue bouncy bullets. They have no special features.
h) yellow rockets - more damage than white ones, they have the ability to slightly avoid obstacles such as walls or pillars.
i) brown rockets - deal the same damage as orange ones, but they are covered with material used for bouncy bullets, so they can bounce off obstacles few times before explosion.
j) black rockets - rare rockets that are the only ones working with Rocket Pilot v3.1. It's ability is worth finding them.

[Olsen]

How about using bumpmapping for the textures?

[cooba]

It makes textures look worse IMO.

[NinJazz]

NINJAJAZZ character for game... he is dressed in black suit and he has a sword in scabbard on his back!

[DoubleGJ]

You better go to Razz Arena.

[Olsen]

It makes textures look worse IMO.

In some games yes.

The only reason Doom 3 looked nice was because of bumpmapping.
i mean, count the polygons in Doom 3´s models. The lightning also made it looks nice.

Offtopic, but whatever.

[Odin]

You guys forgot RF missiles.

a) DualMissile - Fires two missles at once; hold down to shoot the missles faster. Must press shoot button multiple times in order to shoot multiple times.
b) TriMissile - Fires three missles at once; hold down to shoot the missiles faster. Must press shoot button multiple times in order to shoot multiple times.
c) SiMissile - Fires one missile at a time. Can be used if you are low on ammo.

d) Green Missiles - Low damage
e) Red Missiles - High damage
f) Blue Missiles - High damage, multiple explosions; useful for taking out huge amounts of enemies at once

g) Guider - All missiles have a special upgrade chip area, where one can attach a chip that can enhance a missile. These (pack of 10) turn missiles into guided missiles, only works if enemy is within a certain range.
h) Fuel Saver - All missiles have a special upgrade chip area, where one can attach a chip that can enhance a missile. These (pack of 12) make missiles use less fuel, when they're closer to the ground, making them go faster.

Also, will you make better graphics when you're done? :P

[Stijn]

I really liked the way RF missiles were implemented in Razz Arena. And bumpmapping makes stuff look better when it's use in the right way, Cooba ;)

[DoubleGJ]

You guys forgot RF missiles.
I did not, I wouldn't forget my favourite. ^.^ I just don't write much at once. I'll come up with more tomorrow. It takes more to that than just write it.

[Baggers]

Groovy ! lots of comments, okidokey an update for you

* Firstly a personal one: I will not be working on this project from the 5-12th as I wont even have a computer, I’ve got training for my gap year and so I’ll be very busy, but you can be sure I'' be right back on track when i do get back, especially as one of the guys on the DarkBasic forums has just offered to make the jazz and spaz models, don’t know how great they’ll be but anything is better than my ball!...he's a great guy and has been programming WAY longer than me.

Back to suggestions
* Wow '?JSZ¿ JaZz!' you are just streaming ideas out here, very impressive though !...defiantly a good few of these are making it in...Which ones we shall see.
The idea of flying a missile is one I’ve wanted to use in a game for ages so ill try that one out (PLUS its really easy to code!)

* Graphics: @Odin ... I will definitely not make the graphics better as i cant, I will however get others to help me, and so yes we will have good graphics, If you want to make some models please say and ill be more than happy for you to join in...plus at the end this project is going to be open source so you can fiddle with any of the code (assuming you have darkbasicpro) and any of the models you like!

@all those commenting on bump mapping: I am not planning on bump mapping for a few reasons:
(1) Though it looks nice this is a home coding job and though while I could do it would be hard and VERY speed costly, I want as many people as possible to be able to play this game.
(2) Style wise... this is not DOOM3...doom3 did look fantastic however i don’t think we need it to have a perfect looking game, we would jus be sacrificing speed for a little eye candy that probably would not fit in.
(3) Has anyone got pictures or links to razz area, as last time i saw, the site was down.
(4) Um I cant remember what was to be in 4...never mind, on with the show

Thanks so much for the interest, I will probably post a few more times before training so i'll see you soon.

[Risp_old]

TNT-

At default, TNT is simply hand placed.
a. TNT Launcher- allows TNT to be shot out, where it then shoot forward till hitting something (at which case it will either fall, stick, or just stop, depending on what type of bomb you are using). Otherwise, the TNT works just the same. Supports all varieties of TNT.
b. Dynamite- Just a stick of dynamite. Falls to the ground normally, and explodes for moderate damage after a set time.
c. Sticky Bomb- A timebomb that sticks to whatever it hits/is placed on. Stronger then dynamite.
d. LaIB (light as air bomb)- Similar to JJ2 TNT. Floats in the air when you place it. Strong as Sticky Bombs.
e. Rubber Explosives- Bomb that falls, and bounces similarly to bouncers. When it explodes, the explosion is stronger then Sticky Bombs and it explodes into several blue bouncer rounds in random directions.
f. Chaos Bomb- Floating bomb that can explode several times at somewhat random intervals into low-damage explosions. Also gives off a few shots of random weapons each time it explodes. Very rare.
g. Decoy- A floating 'bomb' that counts as a heat source and thus attracts many seeking attacks.
h. Pulse Bomb- Floating bomb that stuns enemies in a wide radius when it explodes.

[n00b]

If you don't want to play the JJ1 demo for a few seconds, the toaster was a faster(i think I havn't played JJ1 in a while), bigger varity of the Blaster, it's ammo looked like flame.
I like the 'blade gun' from the OEM version of Jazz 2...
Blade Gun
a)Blade SR1- Shoots out one spinning Blade, supports short and long blades, but long blades move a bit slower than short.
b)Blade SR2- This gun shoots out two short or long blades in the same fashion as the SR1, however these blades move faster and there is no slowdown for a long blade.
c)Mace CH1- Shoots out a mace on a chain. Works like the SR1 and supports Chain Maces
d)Flailerang- this is a melee variety of the Mace gun and does not run on ammo. The 'rang very weakly seeks out a target, the only downside is that you have to wait for the 'rang to return. A 'Speed Hack' can make the 'rang return faster
e)Blade SR3- This is a black market addon to the SR1 or SR2, once equiped to either one it shoots out 3 blades in a 'V' shape formation. This addon also supports Broad swords. This addon also slows you down and the broad swords face the same problem the Long swords did in the SR1
f)short swords- short, weak swords used in specialized guns
g)long swords- stronger, and longer than the short sword.
h)broad swords- wide,long,heavy, and strong, these black market swords are the best way to go 'medevil' on an enemy
i)Chain Mace- a weaker form of the Flailerang which can be rapidly shot out of a gun that supports it.
j)OEM Speed Hack- This powerup makes the Flailerang move faster
k)Defense Mechanisim- This black market addon to the sword guns turn the swords into sheilds which push enemies away instead of hurting them. Useful with the Sword SR3, and can be taken out, but not nessecarily retreived.

EDIT- Images:
Blade Gun Shot from Jazz 2 OEM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/lijik/bladegunshot.bmp
'V' Formation talked about with the Sword SR3(Overhead perspective, crappy paint drawing)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/lijik/vformation.bmp

[Odin]

Electro Shooter:

a) PlasmaNRGizer - Basic electroshot weapon. Same damage as normal blaster, but immune to walls.
b) NitroBlast - Same as PlasmaNRGizer, but does twice as much damage.
c) 13-36.9D - Experimental weapon, shoots VERY rapidly, shots do thrice as much damage. Shots able to travel through walls.

d) Normal ammo - Same damage as blaster.
e) Supercharged ammo - Twice as much damage as blaster (use with a weapon like the NitroBlast to get 4 times as powerful, 13-36.9D to get 6 times as powerful!)
f) Tera Blast - Thrice as much damage as blaster (use with a weapon like the NitroBlast to get 6 times as powerful, 13-36.9D to get 9 times as powerful!)

g) LightningBlast - Powerup that can be used on the PlasmaNRGizer to shoot EXTREMELY RAPIDLY. Result is a 'lightning gun'. Be very careful, it can hurt you, too.

[Olsen]

@ Baggers, http://www.eckhart.da.ru/jazz2/razz or http://www.eckhart.a.la/jazz2/razz

dunno if they work though

[cooba]

This looks so more promising than Razz Arena, Bagger. Keep it up.

[DoubleGJ]

Time for more weapon suggestions! I hope I didn't get annoying yet. ^^

5. RF type rockets:
a) character's basic blaster - supports green rockets (and red if upgraded). Fires a single rocket at big speed, but can shoot two if you hold down the shoot key for longer.
b) RF Type Rocket Launcher - supports green and red rockets. Fires a single rocket at huge speed, but can shoot up to three rockets if you hold down the shoot key for longer (just like the UT2k3 Rocket Launcher).
c) T-B RF-RL - supports green and red rockets. Fires three rockets at once with huge speed. Quite a heavy beast, it'll slow you down and make your jumps lower.
d) RapidRF - taken straight out of Bolly's left-overs, supports green and pink rockets. Shoots them at high duration speed, but if you shoot for too long it'll overheat and you'll need to wait until it cools off.
e) Sticky Launcher [limited RF edition] - supports red and pink rockets. Fires three rockets at once with huge speed, but they are sticked to each other, meaning they can hit only target and deal massive damage to it.
f) green RF rockets - take as much damage as purple bouncy bullets. They have a small explosion radius.
g) red RF rockets - take more damage and have a big explosion radius, but are heavy and slowly lose height as they fly.
h) pink RF rockets - take even more damage, but have an explosion radius of green rockets. Their weight is somwhere between red and green rockets.
i) RF Turret IP312 - set it somewhere and give it up to 20 of your rockets (supports green only). Use a pilot to make it turn on/off. Good for securing tunnel exits or any other places that are certain to cross by enemies. Approach it and push a proper key (I'd suggest not programming the shoot one for that) to take it back with you.
Note: Explosions should hurt the player aswell as the enemies.

[Radium]

Personally, I think needless amounts of powerups and modifications aren't necessary. I mean, more than three per weapon is pretty much overkill.

On a side note, if it hasn't been already mentioned, RFs would probably work better in 3D if they went left and right instead of up and down.

[Baggers]

Wow the third page, yeah radium I do agree with the fact that we wont be using all these weapons, 3-4 is plenty but there is definatly no harm in all this inspiration. WE can decide at a later date which will be best to use (and which of them i can succesfully code !)
The Idea of different fire modes, i feel is a good one though as long as it fits and adds a little to the game.
Thanks people, I may post a little video of the blocks and all working if you like?

[n00b]

Ooh ooh! I like new videos!
Oh and I found this texture on a trippy trip to the third demension, it might make the grass not look so one colored(unless that was the look you were going for):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/lijik/grasstexture.bmp

[Olsen]

Yep sure post a video with the blocks.

However, is there going to be a special levelcreator for the game.
What program do you use to make levels?

[Baggers]

Ok ill have a go at that soon, ahh off to scotland tomorrow, Oh and just for you Noob i used the texture!
@Olsen: Right, yes there will be a level editor, which i will be writing soon...currently i use milkshape for the terrain and then place the objects and such using routines I have written, but soon I will make a proper level editor, where you can make objects, walls, particles etc, and then save the levels to be imported straight into the game. The principle coding is easy enough and fun its just making the menus that I find tedious.
However this level editor will defiantly be released with the game, maybe a bit before so you can have a play!
Ill keep you posted with that aswell as the game.
Ok im off to get that video, back soon

[Olsen]

Ok, cool!

how will the tileset thingy work in the leveleditor?
Will it be like a 'import textures and add them to the objects' thingy?
Or will it be like a 3d tileset with objects (enitites).

anyway, good work Baggers!! GO BAGGERS!! GO BAGGERS!! GO BAGGERS!!

[Baggers]

Haha thanks Olsen, right here is the link to the video (1.3meg) just shows a little bit of blocks being destroyed, that i havnt made yet are the blocks that are only destroyed by one bullet type, but they will be really easy to do...and then hopefully I will get the blocks activated by stomping metal crates to work! That will be cool !

http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video05.avi

To answer your question Olsen, The editor will allow you to load in a terrain and then use the mouse to place objects and the right mouse button to select the object for manipulation, this is where you could say tell a set of locked blocks which crate opens them, or what speed a platform moves at, and its paypoints etc etc.... Most things will be prefab, but i will look into custom models, so that you could make an object in milksahep (for example) and load it straight into the game. So i guess its much more like your second option "a 3d tileset with objects". This will probably be the main thing i want to acheive over my hols after training. That and to get the new jazz/spaz models into the game !
Thanks, as allways, for your support, especialy that cheering from Olsen hehe!

[cooba]

I can perform a lot better cheering with a little time. ;p

...nice job with those blocks, heh.

[Olsen]

Np Baggers!

Okay i think i understand it.
This is one of the most promising Jazz 3d things i ever saw.
i like how you did the blocks falling apart thingy.

GO BAGGERS!!11 (yes, i adore you 8D )

[n00b]

Hey thanks for using the texture Baggers!
YAY! The new video rocks. GO BAGGERS! GO-GO GO BAGGERS!

[DoubleGJ]

If that might anyhow help with making the model, I can draw Jazz, Spaz or any other JJ character in various points of view (basically front, left, right, back, up and down).
A good idea about the music would be using all those good remixes that have been done so far.

[Baggers]

Wow, i have a peek at this as im packing and this is so uplifting, I kinda wwish i wasnt going so i could do more work on it !
@?JSZ¿ JaZz!: That would be fantastic, if you would it would help imensely, also how are you with the baddies ? Oh and im starting off with the music from Jazz2 and then will defiantly have a go at the remixes !

@nOOb: Thanks and no problem ! (nice cheering by the way ! hehe)

@Everyone: Due to the fantastic responce with the weapons ideas, i was wondering how do you think the controls should function. So far i am just using keyboard for all controls bar the mouse for moving the camera relative to the character, however as you can see in the blocks videos you have to jump a fair bit to get the shots in the right place, so would a proper 'max payne style' aim be a good idea...or any of your ideas to how it should be done. please discuss it all here ! Thanks !

Ok people back to packing !

[n00b]

Hmm, whilst I'm not sure about the aiming (I'd have to play the game first), the control should be something that gamers are used to, for example, most 3d games use 'w' to move foward, 'a' to move left, 'd' to move right, and 's' to move down. Oh! And maybe 'space' for jump, and click the the left mouse button to shoot. I think thats a pretty general control scheme.

[Radium]

I propose keeping aiming close to the original and just having you fire in the direction you're facing, perhaps with 5-15 degrees of automatic aim.

[Odin]

If possible, could you code in a custom key placement system, possibly with joystick support? Thanks.

[DoubleGJ]

Proposed controls...
W/A/S/D - move
Space - jump
Mouse - aim
Left mouse button - shoot
Right mouse button - use/push
Mouse roller - toggle weapons
Shift - toggle run on/off
C - duck
Z - lamp (from Jazz2) on/off
1,2,3,(...),0 - select weapon, push multiple times to toggle weapons from the same type
Esc - pause (with menu)
Pause/Break - normal pause
[ - previous weapon (in case somebody doesn't have a roller in mouse)
] - next weapon (in case somebody doesn't have a roller in mouse)

And in case you'd ever need it...
Enter - inventory

[Baggers]

Hi there folks !
Right this post is actualy to say goodbye ...bust just for a week, will be back home (well...at my dad's) next sunday but untill then i wont be near a computer so I Wish you farewell thanks and have a request for you

Please, please keep chatting here about concepts for the game, especially concerning the controls, anyone who has cany concept pics for things youd like to see? then post them ! any help is welcome and will really get me going when I get back.

When i do get back i think a member (or two) of the Darkbasic forums will have the character models, '?JSZ¿ JaZz!' has offered some sketchings which will be very usful, and ill have some time to have a bash at gettin the editor running.

So until next week, Cya !


p.s. Yes i can do the custom controls that should be fine !
Oh if coming up with ideas for controls bear in mind im putting a roll right and left control in too.
Finally I will have a look into using joysticks for you, shouldnt be too hard... should take a few hours to learn.
Bye

[Olsen]

Bye bye :(

[n00b]

Maybe we should take Battery Man put him in a 3d game based on Bagger's engine and release it before the Jazz game is released. It'd be like Jazz 2.... sort of.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/lijik/battmana9.bmp
Edit- Have fun being away for a week.

[DoubleGJ]

Oh if coming up with ideas for controls bear in mind im putting a roll right and left control in too.
...Either "," and "." or double-tapping "A" or "D".

Have fun in the week out!

[Olsen]

Nice modeling n00b :D

[Slaz]

Baggers, can you please put many Jazz1 characters in it?
I like Jazz1, and keep going on with this good work!

[n00b]

Nice modeling n00b :D
Thanks :D (First time n00b has used a smilie here)
The only thing that picture of the model is missing is fingers, and I've been working on that.
Battery Check 3d would be awesome, and not too hard to program as well. Theres 1 enemy, 1 boss, 2 types of batteries, one 'npc' of sorts.(From all I can tell)
Plus the conversion to 3d wouldn't be that hard (Example:The energy suckers(enemy) would hang on something or walk on a set path until you come near and they relentlessly try to attack you unless you get away. WHich should be somewhat easy, since the suckers take a short break before they hop around again.)
But that's getting off topic I think.

[Olsen]

Offtopic, but Baggers isn´t here so we can do whatever we want. *Evil laugh*

[Stijn]

Thanks :D (First time n00b has used a smilie here)
The only thing that picture of the model is missing is fingers, and I've been working on that.
Battery Check 3d would be awesome, and not too hard to program as well. Theres 1 enemy, 1 boss, 2 types of batteries, one 'npc' of sorts.(From all I can tell)
Plus the conversion to 3d wouldn't be that hard (Example:The energy suckers(enemy) would hang on something or walk on a set path until you come near and they relentlessly try to attack you unless you get away. WHich should be somewhat easy, since the suckers take a short break before they hop around again.)
But that's getting off topic I think.

NPC? Where?

[n00b]

According to the readme there is a dragon or something that you can trade empty batteries to.
AFAIK it's not in the demo.
EDIT- The name is Freddy the Dragon and for every 3 empty batteries you have he would give one full one

[Stijn]

Ah, I remember.

[n00b]

I'm just here to keep this topic alive.
Whhhheeeee!
Without Baggers, I really can't think of anything to discuss about this game.

[MasterRyu]

Great work...the progress so far looks great, this might just turn out to be the game fans have been waiting for since Jazz Jackrabbit 2. While I haven't done any 3D modelling (trying to learn Blender right now tho), and have somewhat limited programming experience, I can give you a few suggestions:


Weapons:

a few basic melee weapons (to fall back on should ammo run scarce, or for those people who prefer melee combat),character specific of course, each with specials (activated when "sugar rush" meter is at least half full)

Jazz
Turtle Chopper - your basic sword with a carrot hilt, not very powerful during normal attack, but compensates by posessing greater than average speed and the ability to deflect incoming projectiles.
SPECIAL - Jazz jumps high into the air, coming crashing down (destroying any airborne enemies in the process, and creating a restricted shockwave upon hitting the ground, significantly damaging enemies in the blast radius, and stunning enemies just outside - there should be a small recovery time after the attack. [Powered Up - blast radius is slightly larger, and recovery is shortened]

Spaz
Squirrel-chucks - Spaz, being the nut that he is prefers to wield these crude nunchaku of unwilling squirrels. Weaker than Jazz's sword, but much faster..
SPECIAL - Rabid Squirrels, Spaz spins in circle, squirrels are enraged and rabid and will bite into enemies causing more damage, with the chance of turning the affected enemy against the others for a short time


*yawn* - actually, it's getting kind of late, so I think I will post more ideas later. Keep up the good work.

[Violet CLM]

Heh heh heh. Checked the gamecreators thread, and downloaded some screenshots... Baggers, when you get back, you should know that you're using an OEM Beta version of JJ2, not the final. It doesn't really effect too much, but there are several key differences which might actually become an issue if you're actually trying to emulate the gameplay. And the gems look different, of course - you're asking people to create models for beta gems which were later redrawn.

[cooba]

Keep the OEM gems though ;(

[Shiverz CC]

I prefer the OEM Gems over the new ones. There should be a vote

[Olsen]

I dunno how the OEM gems look like.
Show me!

[cooba]

(Deleted on Violet's request I don't feel like explaining.)

[Olsen]

Thanks Cooba! :)

[piet]

No, i tried to look at the site not long back but it wasnt working.

sorry about that but my webserver is kinda .... dead. i will need to get myself some new gear and than i am ready to go.

btw i have a jazz and spaz model you can use.
maybe you have a few models that Razz Arena can use to.
I will restart the project soon when the new sites gets up.

[DoubleGJ]

I think Baggers' game should get it's own model, closer to today's standards. I almost finished drawing Jazz sheet, just the look from above and below and that should be enough.

[piet]

so we need a good modeler who can make a jazz model

[DoubleGJ]

That was said before.

[piet]

correct but since that modeler isn't found yet i will post it again :P

[DoubleGJ]

<a href="http://www.deviantart.com/view/15052342/">Tell me if this needs to be inked.</a>

Pageclaim in the name of my art.

[n00b]

That's a pretty good reference of Jazz, the only flaw I can see is that the hair is a bit big.

[Hare]

Hi guys.

This is sounding prety cool. Mind if I put in a few ideas?

I like the shockwave idea for the buttstomp. I think it'd probably be near impossible to hit anyone otherwise (unless they were standing still). Maybe bigger shockwaves could be made from buttstomping from higher locations?

Well, okay, that'll be one idea then.

I'm also interested in modeling Jazz.

I started on this yesterday, I think the mesh will be finished tomorrow...
http://www.purrhead.thj.no/screenshots/3d_jazz_progress_2-13.jpg

I think a higher and lower poly version of the models would be good for both LOD and as a setting people with less powerful machines can toggle so only the lower poly models will be used in the game... Oh, that makes for 2 ideas then. Okay, I guess I do have a few ideas.

[Stijn]

I think he's too skinny and his hair is way too big, actually. But the LFG sketch looks pretty good.

(@ JSZ Jazz)

[Olsen]

@ Hare

The head looks a bit, weird.

[LittleFreak]

Looks not bad JSZ. :)

I agree the hair is too big though.

[Radium]

The head looks a bit, weird.
I don't think it's done.

[Hare]

I don't think it's done.

Yeah *chuckles*. The head wasn't shaped yet.

The head is done now though.
http://www.purrhead.thj.no/screenshots/3d_jazz_progress_2-13b.jpg
http://www.purrhead.thj.no/screenshots/jazz-angles-2-13.jpg

He's around 1,200 polygons at the moment.

[Fawriel]

Not bad.. not bad at all I must say.

[n00b]

Thats a pretty cool model of Jazz.

[Odin]

Very well done.

[Baggers]

ARGHHHHHHH (-)(-)(-)(-) POST CRASHED WHEN I CLICKED POST !


That crazed yelling has obviously indicated that im back !
Yep i have returned, the week was awesome and im really pleased to see so much activity here while i was gone (On the Darkbasic forums I had two posts !). So yeah ...4 PAGES ?...weird!

Ok ive read through all the stuff and it really has been some great stuff going on here.

@?JSZ¿ JaZz!: Those pictures are great ! i'll be having a look to see if anyone can model that for me. (Edit-ooh we have hare on the case!)

@nOOB: ....hi !.....also what is this "Battery Man" you speak of?

@Slaz: Ill definatly have look into it !...ill need to get the original though as i dont know all the enemies

@Olsen: HOW DARE YOU ... Trying to overthrow my thread into chaos in my absence, JUST GET OUT.........hehe yep i am joking !

@MasterRyu: thanks man, some class ideas in there, the rabid squirrel thing is insane !

@Unknown Rabbit: thanks man, i didnt realise that...though i do prefer the gems in the OEM version... are there any other major differences though ?.....I will probably have to get the proper version some time.

@br>piet: Id love to see the Jazz and Spaz models even if i only use them temporarily. Also if the server is just for file hosting and such then i can recommend www.Sapphicsoft.co.uk...$1 a month hosting.

@Hare: Very nice work, Im looking forward to this !


Other than that just a big thanks again for all the support and im gonna get back to work!

[Violet CLM]

There are a few differences which might make a conversion look kind of strange. Your blinking injuries, for example, and the ice effect. Read <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/articles/view.php?articleID=206">this article</a> and apply all the changes in reverse. Just download a demo of JJ2 and patch it to 1.23, that should give you an idea of the proper engine.

Battery Man is the hero of Battery Check, a game known mainly because it uses the JJ2 engine and thus people like to play around with it. You can download the demo <a href="http://www.dutchfurs.com/~haze/?cat=files&dir=files/pc/shareware">here</a>, and the demo is really all most people have, as it's no longer sold anywhere.

[piet]

ARGHHHHHHH (-)(-)(-)(-) POST CRASHED WHEN I CLICKED POST !
@br>piet: Id love to see the Jazz and Spaz models even if i only use them temporarily. Also if the server is just for file hosting and such then i can recommend www.Sapphicsoft.co.uk...$1 a month hosting.


its my own server so i can do everyting i want :P.
the source models of Jazz and Spaz are still on my old servers (and broke) harddrive.

but i will re extract it form the old jj3 demo files.

that way its plane without the celshading and animations Mc Dougal added to it.

[n00b]

ARGHHHHHHH (-)(-)(-)(-) POST CRASHED WHEN I CLICKED POST !@nOOB: ....hi !.....also what is this "Battery Man" you speak of?
Violet beat me to it. But if you want t check out Battery Man's Awesomeness even further (andplay some fun time-wasting games while you're at it) go to
Battery World (http://www.batteryworld.nl)

[Violet CLM]

Whoa, I never knew about that! Cool.

[Baggers]

Im sorry there has been no progress of late as i have been ill...nasty nasty illness...so i will get back to work when im feeling better.
Sorry bout that !

[DoubleGJ]

Get well! (and I'm sick too...)

[Hare]

Get well soon Baggers & JSZ.

[Baggers]

Just a little update concerning the game and a release date:

That course i went on the other week has just paid off and i have been selected, I am now off on a gap year from september to teach in uganda !

So obviously i have had this in mind for a while so i can now announce:

THIS GAME WITH EDITOR AND ALL SOURCE CODE, EDITOR, AND MEDIA WILL BE RELEASED BY THIS SEPTEMBER
Yep thats right folks, hopefully i can get this game to a state where it is fully playable and ready for your medeling fingers by then. I really hope it will be up to expectations and I will be seriously looking foreward to seeing what has happened to my little project by the time I get back the following year!

I will probably not have a fully story set out, but the tools will be there for you to fill that in yourself. What it will have is the editor so create levels, so full options for your own storylines.
Also for you coders out there, the code is being fully released so you can customise and change whatever you want (so that batteryman 3D idea could definately be achieved....it would require a fair bit of work in the editor though !)
I Hope together we can achive this, as we have already come this far and its been great !
Look forward to your responces!

[Olsen]

Cool!

[n00b]

Get well soon Jazz and Baggers
Anyways, now I'm even more pysched for the game!

[MasterRyu]

Good luck with the teaching gig Baggers, and keep up the good work. I look forward to the release of the editor and source code.

[Hare]

Congradulations, Baggers :). So what will you be teaching in Uganda?

Good idea on the open source thing, too.

[Baggers]

If all goes well and i get the placement im hopeing for i'll actually be teaching IT ! but its quite probable ill have side projects teaching english, it's all fingers crossed time at the moment !
Thanks for the continuing support.

[Olsen]

How is the game going Baggers?

[Baggers]

Pretty well, just getting better from a nasty bout of food poisening, has had me pretty much off all work this week (which sucks because now i have a tonne of college work to do) However i have written a load of commands for making windows style dialogues (Buttons, drop down menus etc.) which can be used in the editor.
Also some of the first pics of peoples models are coming through, which is the bit that will really bring the game to life! also when i have the models i can get them into the editor to get that working.
This is a hard bit of making games, lots of work but for while not much to show for it...but dont worry, the work continues!

[Olsen]

=D=D=D

[Fawriel]

adwsasdasdadsad
Awesome.
*curses the poisoned food*

[Baggers]

Ok, here is a pic of 'Jonny Ree's contribution for the game, it is a jazz model and i dont want to put anyone off (especially you hare i still need that model !) but I thought you would like to give your comments.

http://www.wyrdlife.com/jazz02.jpg

What do you think ? is it good enough for jazz?

[n00b]

I think that's a good model.
I nearly asked Why is it wearing gloves? But then remembered that those are his armbands.

[Violet CLM]

<ul>
<li>Missing the headband.</li>
<li>No chest fur to speak of.</li>
<li>It's hard to tell if there's a backpack, but I don't see any straps for it.</li>
<li>Eyes don't come out of the head.</li>
<li>Muzzle doesn't look furry.</li>
</ul>

[Baggers]

oki-dokey, Ill pass those on when he's done the texturing...oh also i had a little go at modeling the crates but i think they dont look cartoony enough , your opinions ?
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/CratesFirstTry.jpg

Just wondering if there is anyone out there who could redraw things like the grass or other textures from the game so that they could be used in this one ?

Thanks again people. Im going to do some heavy updating on the editor soon (the interface is a bit crappy at the mo)

[DoubleGJ]

The silver crate should be more shiny. I like the wooden crate the way it is now.

[Olsen]

I like them.

[n00b]

I agree with JSZ Jazz, the wooden crate looks good, but the silver crate doesn't look silver/shiny enough. It looks more of a metal crate than a silver crate.

[n00b]

<ul>
<li>Missing the headband.</li>
<li>No chest fur to speak of.</li>
<li>It's hard to tell if there's a backpack, but I don't see any straps for it.</li>
<li>Eyes don't come out of the head.</li>
<li>Muzzle doesn't look furry.</li>
</ul>
Both models (the one posted by Hare, and the one posted by Baggers) have the some of the same problems: no straps(unless I can't see it in the green of Hare's), unfurry muzzle,and odd headband(both are missing the 'back' of the headband). However both have chest fur.
Point Outs on the model Baggers posted (www.vipir.com/haiku/phil-bin/pointouts.png)

[Stijn]

I agree with JSZ Jazz, the wooden crate looks good, but the silver crate doesn't look silver/shiny enough. It looks more of a metal crate than a silver crate.

I'd rather call it a beton crate :)

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/Jazzavatar.gif">
That's not really the best example, but it'll do. Notice that the fur on Jazz's chest is much lighter and comes farther out than the fur on his legs. And look at Spaz - there's a definite difference between his orange fur and his red fur. These models are missing that distinction.

[jonnyhr]

Hello, I was the one who made the model Baggers posted.. I just came by here by accident really.. but if one is searching for JJ2 its kinda hard not to drop by here I'm guessing.

I'm gonna answer some questions and comments about the model.
I'm not very experianced in modeling.. but I try my best to keep it low-poly but in the same time high on details.. which is a nearly impossible ballance.
Fur is always a challange when doing models (not that I've done much before) there three ways this can be done basicly.. low-poly: texture the fur, middle-poly: make planes and make a transparrant texture. or very hight poly: model it all 0_o

For this model I have chosen to make the fur a part of the texture.. sinse I've got most experiance with doing textures. the hard part here will be to avoid flatness. But this will ensure a good flow in the game. The straps for his bag has not been modeled.. because it might make some issues when animating this, which is the reason I desided to texture it on instead.. I might reconsider this though.. but it will add to the poly count. The stuff on the front.. is supouse to be fur.. and will hopefully look a lot better when textured. Finally it is the head band. I have desided to put the back pice of the head band as its own object, this way a cloth simulator can be added to it.. so it will react to the movement of the character.

Thanks for the comments on this model.. I've played quite a bit of Jazz Jackrabbit in the past.. but I dont know him as well as you guys do.. so when the texture is done.. I would like comments on that as well :D

Baggers:
Looked at the boxes, I think they look GREAT!

- Later

[Baggers]

@Jonny: Thanks man!...just gonna modify the metal one a little though.

@All: Hi people, yep this is the Jonny, and be sure the texture will be great, if there are any doubts head across to his site and see his previous work, its great stuff.http://wyrdlife.com/
The crates are nearly finished, graphics wise, but i am having to make my particle system in game more advanced to handle the little bits of debry that fly off and bounce around. Should look good though, it also means that if i want i can have smoke react nicely off objects. (this is a pic of the last time i did such a demo with smoke http://www.unseenconcept.net/FireSmoke2.jpg)

Ok ill go get that working then! Seeyou soon, keep the ideas going.



p.s. Is there anyone out there who has ripped, or is willing to rip, the sound effects from jazz 2 for this game ?

[n00b]

Would you care if it's in .mp3 format? Because if you don't I'd be willing to.
Page claim in the name of the new awesome smoke and fire screenies.

[Baggers]

Mp3 is fine, would that be seperate mp3's for each sound or 1 big collection of them ?

[n00b]

seperate mp3s for each one.

[Baggers]

That would be great! if thats no problem i would really appritiate it...looks like your in the credits too !....they're getting quite long.
The changes to the particle system are nearly done.
Also, you know in the 2d game, when a block is shot the 4 fragments fall off the bottom of the screen....well as in my version they fall through the floor you only get to see them very briefly, so i made it so they start going up and then fall....ill do a new video soon to make it clear...that will also show off the new particle bits !
Thanks again people !


<Edit> Is the metal crate btter this time ?
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/CratesSecondTry.jpg

[cooba]

Nah, still looks like beton.

[DoubleGJ]

If it could somehow shine brightly, that would be much better.

[cooba]

You may want to change the texture you used to cover the model with; the current one doesnt really look like metal.

[Baggers]

Ok will do, yeah they were just a couple of textures i had lying around...will do some hunting!...oh fancy particles finsished now, will stick a video up soon.
@?JSZ¿ JaZz!: Yeah i can do that...I may add it after a better texture.

[Baggers]

Here it is folks, the one that no-ones been waiting for !
(2.5 meg)
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video06.avi

@cooba: i didnt know what beton was, just looked it up and now i understand...and it is remarkably like beton too !

[n00b]

Nice video, but whats with the floating rock?

[Olsen]

Nice video Baggers! The block falling apart effect looks nice! But, I noticed that the bounchers never stop bounching... I guess you aren´t finished with them yet.

[Violet CLM]

Baggers is working with the OEM bouncers, so his understanding of how they work is going to be somewhat warped.

[Baggers]

@All: Oh sorry, i was in such a rush last night i didnt explain.
The video was just to show off the new particle system and how the smoke bounced off objects, so i stuck a textured sphere in the smokes way and viola ! smoke reacts to it.

@Olsen: They do stop, just the range is quite long, they disappear when they destroy blocks and otherwise the bounce until they are out of range and dissappear in a puff of smoke, its so much easier to see in game than on that video!

[Olsen]

@Baggers: Ok. Great work notheless.

[Baggers]

*UPDATE*
=======
Jazz is now in the game!...unfortunatly not the model..just a green ball again! hehe never mind....However his super jump, ear-copter-flying, running, jumping, sprinting, shooting etc. work.
Also both Jazz and Apaz can buttstomp now !...and they can shoot or buttstomp the crates.
All i have to do now for crates is get the debry to look right as its just little cubes and spheres at the mo!

Ahh satisfying work !

[DoubleGJ]

*cheers up*
The smoke looks great! What are the current system requirements?

[Olsen]

We want video!!

;P

[Baggers]

Haha patience young Olsen...i tell you what, once nOOb has got those ripped sounds to me and i've put them in, ill try and knock togethe a little demo for you guys and girls...hopefully by then the jazz model will be ready too !

@ ?JSZ¿ JaZz!: Hmm now im not entirly sure, ill have a go at making a demo (not the ne i mentioned above) to show off the effects and you can report the Frames per second you get, and your system details, that way we will know how hefty a system you need!
I'll go do that now !

[Olsen]

*GO BAGGERS*

[Baggers]

*Uploading the system test now*

*A little Info while its uploading*
Ok so this is the first little demo to wet your appetite.
The camera is at a fixed distance from jazz who slowly turns left constantly throughout the demo. (the next one will have full control)
You cant move the camera but you can shoot both the blaster and the Blue bouncers
(use 1 to select blaster, 2 for the bouncers)
You can jump, space is regular jump, down and space is super jump and pressing space once jazz has reached jump jump height starts the 'copter ears'...which is rather dull in this demo as it just means he falls slower as he doesnt have a body yet let alone ears !
Also there s only some background music for company...but hey its a start.

Oh also its control key to shoot.

The file is 8.61 meg, and is a zip file, so just unzip it and run the file called "JazzSystemTest.exe"...or something similar...its the only '.exe' in the zip so you cant miss it.

It will be done uploading shortly!

*HERE IT IS*
=========

http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzSystemCheck.zip

The Frames per second is writen in the corner, press '+' to set the frame rate to unlimited to see how fast your computer can run the demo.
Pressing '-' sets the framerate back to 60 (though it hovers between 60 & 70)

=========

Any problems or suggestions just post em here !

[jonnyhr]

Very nice baggers.. funny how long one can sit and be entertained by this.. :D

My computer ran at 270 to 340 frames.
1,9Ghz AMD prosessor, 1024MB DDR RAM 400mhz, ATI Radeon X800SE

Keep at it.. I'm currently working on texturing the character.. hope to get far today :)

[Olsen]

OMG OMG OMG =D =D =D

Ok, that was spam, but Im SO happy he released a demo. Just need to wait until the download is finished.

====YAYAY====
ok, cool demo. =D=D=D

[Stijn]

Downloading right now, gonna test it with:

Pentium II 200 MhZ, 64MB RAZM, 64MB KyroII GfX.

EDIT On that computer it wouldn't run at all. On my other PC it runs at 45 FPS. Specs:

Pentium IV 1,7 GhZ
256 MBRAM (SDRAM)
256 MB Radeon 9600XT

And how to move though the level? WASD or the arrow keys don't work.

EDIT 2 When trying to switch Level1.x and Level2.x the whole thing became messed up: the level suddenly looked like this (http://nightmare-incorporate.com/tf/tf/images/misc/bag.png).

[cooba]

i didnt know what beton was, just looked it up and now i understand...and it is remarkably like beton too !Oh sorry, I meant concrete. ;p

Anyway, you should try playing the most recent version of Jazz, which is 1.2<s>5</s>3. The physics are far better than v1.00g's (or whatever your OEM is).

[Olsen]

Downloading right now, gonna test it with:

Pentium II 200 MhZ, 64MB RAZM, 64MB KyroII GfX.

EDIT On that computer it wouldn't run at all. On my other PC it runs at 45 FPS. Specs:

Pentium IV 1,7 GhZ
256 MBRAM (SDRAM)
256 MB Radeon 9600XT

And how to move though the level? WASD or the arrow keys don't work.

It is fixed camera+fixed stand mode :P

[Baggers]

Thanks Jonny, nice framerate ... i get around 200! Good news about the model.

@Olsen: thanks mate you just made my smile even bigger ! ... p.s what framerate did you get

@sers^^: no prob, I will definatly be adding the option to change resolution, and also to clip the draw distance.

@Cooba: hehe....Oh no..better physics...that means more coding...grrr...how do i get hold of Jazz2 nowerdays ?

@all: Thanks everyone, this cheered me up !....now i've got to decide whether to put it on the DarkBasic Forums....yeah i will...after a bit of english CW.
oh and the butstomping is now fully working on blocks aswell as crates.

[cooba]

BTW My framerate was something around 35. >(

[n00b]

Stupid laptop, I get a runtime error 1505, apparently running the program in 32 or 16 bit is not supported by my hardware.
I'll get you my laptop's specs in a bit. I'm going to test the demo on the other two computers in my house and then go rip sounds.
EDIT-My laptop's specs are:
Intel Pentium III 796 MHz
256 MB of Ram
ATI Rage Mobility

[Olsen]

BTW My framerate was something around 85

[Baggers]

I think us programmers spoil ourselves a bit on hardware...hmm...ill set about having changable graphics settings then..itll only be rough untill write a menu system...and thats a way off yet !

[n00b]

Meh, same problem on my brother's laptop only this time it was error 1513.
I'm not in the mood to look at the specs, but he has the same graphics card as me, and that could mean something.

[n00b]

On my family computer, I got runtime error 1513 again, this is insufficent video memory.
So the current problem are my graphics cards. Well, at least I have a goal now. Once I fix my graphics cards(wait can you replace the card in a laptop?) I'm predicting, my brothers laptop will have the highest FPS. Alright, now I'm going to rip sounds.

[Baggers]

It requires DirectX 9c by the way, sorry i forgot to mention that, it could be that or it may be its just not a 3D card...oh and as far as framerate..i set the screensize to 800x600 and gained 20fps...also the particles are the real slow down, i set the inteligent particles off and the fps didnt fall below 230, and when i turned the smoke off completly it didnt fall below 270 peaking at 330ish....so looks like ive got some optimizing to do, and inquiring about a little problem i have.
The Walls now can be deep as well as wide and high, just a little update as i was posting !

[Olsen]

GJ Baggers!

[Stijn]

@sers^^: no prob, I will definatly be adding the option to change resolution, and also to clip the draw distance.

Errr... I actually changed the filenames of the Level1.x and level2.x files, so level1.x was Level2.x and Level2.x was level1.x. Then when I tried playing it looked pretty strange, it had nothing to do with resolutions or something :)

[Baggers]

Oh i hadnt seen your second edit !
Yeah Level1 is from the earliest videos and the textures are all messed up , thats why it looked weird !...dam fiddlers =joking!!=
If you look up you would see much more level....cool to know your interested though !
Just checked...you only see that level in the very first video.

[n00b]

I just ripped some sounds, this is more frustrating than I thought.
My MP3 recorder is a pain to use when it decides to lag. The sounds I have ripped are
-Jazz Eating carrot
-Helicopter Ears
-Blaster shot
-Blaster explosion(didn't hit anything)
-Hitting the ground after jump
-jumping, then hitting the ground.
-Pole
-"Hey, C'mon whats Up?!"
Apparently, there are no sounds for Jazz's super jump.I'm uploading them right now
Sounds here (www.vipir.com/haiku/phil-bin/jazz2sounds1.zip)

[Baggers]

You star ! thanks alot man, Ill start getting those in soon. Any more you rip just post here.
3 cheers for nOOb

p.s. How do you rip the sounds, because I could do some aswell.

[n00b]

Do a google search for Super MP3 Recorder, find the program and download it, the open Jazz 2 in windowed mode.
When a sound is about to happen, press the Record button in the SMR, and then quickly switch back to Jazz 2, when the sound is done, quickly press the stop button in SMR.

[Baggers]

How do you run Jazz in windowed mode ?

[Stijn]

How do you run Jazz in windowed mode ?

Press ALT+ENTER in fullscreen mode. It doesn't work with the OEM version though, so you'll really need to upgrade ;)

and pageclaim

[Baggers]

So i'll re-iterate, where is the best place to get jazz jackrabbit these days ?!

[n00b]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/B00001SHOK/all/ref=dp_pb_a/103-4287041-0383009
Are you ready to dish out $38 plus shipping?

[Baggers]

Nope !
hehe, Oh just as an update on sound ripping, Im using easy mp3 recorder (90 seconds of recording) and then using audacity (Free audio editing software) to split the sounds up....saves alot of headaches !

[n00b]

I wish I thought of that... wait I did, SMR comes with MP3 editing. But it wont work.
Says I haven't registered. I DID REGISTER FOO! Anyways, nice to hear that I'll be less frystrated

[Violet CLM]

Bah, we really need to make that page. <a href="http://www.chipsbits.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=JAZZJ2%2EIR&eq=&Tp=">Buy JJ2 here.</a> (cheapcheapcheap)

[Baggers]

Hehe....Talking of a wbsite, do you lot think that this game should have a webpage.... now im no webdesigner so any webpages would have to be made by one of you guys, however i do have webspace to host it on...and lots of room for files once the game is made and you want to upload custom levels to show off !.....anyone think that would be good ?

I have just incorperated sound effects into the game and it makes one hell of a difference!...ah so nice to stomp blocks and hear that familiar sound!

[Violet CLM]

http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/baggers/

[n00b]

Boredom,Paint, A tenetive Jazz model, A red golf ball, A google image search, and Violet's webpage. All ingredients to solve boredom:
http://www.vipir.com/haiku/phil-bin/jazz23dboxcover.PNG

[Olsen]

Now you have a homepage Baggers! BE HAPPY! :D

[Baggers]

Picks jaw off floor.........it falls straight back down !

[DoubleGJ]

This is going in an interesting direction...

I'll download the system check later.

[Stijn]

I don't want to sound rude, but I think that website looks pretty bad.

EDIT: I figured just saying "it sucks" without giving reasons is bad. I don't like it because there's too much empty space, it uses Times New Roman (SANS SERIF PLEASE), the green texture is too blurry, the coding is pretty bad, the headers of the "cells" are one solid color while the background of the "cells" is a texture, the padding of the cells is too small, the copyright notice too big, the "3D" on the logo doesn't fit with the JJ logo, the logo/top frame is too big and the HR's look pretty dodgy. It's just my personal opinion and I'm not trying to insult anyone :)

[Baggers]

Not too bad considering it went up in 4 hours !

Oh unknown that screenshot of "A couple of shots of the glowing trail left when you run around." is actualy "A couple of shots of the particle smoke, one static and the other attached to a moving object"

More sounds have been added to the game, Main work is centralising on making the whole thing neater and easier to code.

[Stijn]

4 Hours is pretty long, actually. Anyway, will the game support software rendering/OpenGL or just Direct3D?

[Baggers]

Just Direct 3D im afraid, it's out of my power as this is what DBpro uses.
(My web knowledge is pants! 4 hours could be pretty long !)

[Olsen]

I have no real ideas atm so I will just cheer you up! GO BAGGERS! =D=D=D

[cooba]

...you know, Olsen, what you're doing is spamming, kind of...

Hmm, didn't DB Pro support OpenGL? I thought it did.

[Olsen]

@ Cooba: Kind of, yeah. Forgive me.

[Baggers]

Olsen and Hare please check your private messages.

[Violet CLM]

because there's too much empty space,
This depends on your monitor, but yeah, it could use some more stuff.
it uses Times New Roman (SANS SERIF PLEASE)
......
the green texture is too blurry,
I just grabbed something from the game. What would you rather see?
the coding is pretty bad
This could use some explanation.
the headers of the "cells" are one solid color
No they're not.
the "3D" on the logo doesn't fit with the JJ logo,
I will replace that when Baggers comes up with a real logo.

The padding I can fix. Give me a few minutes.
Edit: Padding and hr's changed on the front page. Any better?

[Fawriel]

..okay, honestly, this got a bit too long in my absence and I didn't catch up with everything, but (-)(-)(-)(-), Baggers, you are amazing and I don't think anyone else has managed to become so important to the community at the very moment of posting their first thread in these forums.

...

...and if anyone wants to complain, I'm not brown-nosing, I'm just saying what I think. ;o

[Violet CLM]

Probably. I'd say the only other contender would be <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=5813">this person/thread here</a>.

[Baggers]

@Fawriel: Im almost tempted to post a pic of my smile right now ! thanks alot !...p.s. did you try the tech demo ?

@Unknown: CONTENDERS?...we cant have any of that....(begins manic cackling while tinkering with code)

[Fawriel]

Sorry, no can do right now. I'm running a Linux system on this machine.. yeah, I don't really like it, either. Will hopefully get fixed soon.

[Stijn]

I just grabbed something from the game. What would you rather see?

I don't really know. Maybe n00b's detailed grass texture (look a few pages back) as main background with a &lt;div&gt; / &lt;table&gt; (I recommend a div) containg the actual page and a less "busy" background. It could even be the "blurry" grass texture.

This could use some explanation.
It doesn't contain a doctype specification. It has no META tags (content type, content style type). It doesn't use styles, which makes the HTML code bloated and the page bigger in size (which doesn't matter now, but will make the site slower when it will eventually get more and more content). It's a total mess for the eyes (yes, there are people who view the source code of almost all sites they see ;)) which will also make it harder to update if you're not using a WYSIWYG editor. In other words, it doesn't keep up to the W3C guidelines or standards.

No they're not.
You're right, I didn't look closely enough.

I will replace that when Baggers comes up with a real logo.
Alright.

The padding I can fix. Give me a few minutes.
Looks way better. Good idea to change the HRs, too.

I was serious about the sans-serif. It's a lot easier for the eyes to read text written or rendered in a sans-serif font. (Verdana rocks for anything larger than 12px, use Tahoma when it's smaller). I don't like the links either, they could do with another color. Maybe you should make the color for visited links the same color as for normal links.

[Hare]

@Johnnyhr - Wow, awesome model. It is funny that we modeled some of the features in the same style. My headband was put on later too, but only because I was worried about the poly count. Same with the lack of backpack straps. LOL, your reasons are much more technical than mine. Cool feet, BTW, they rock. I'm also new to modeling.

@baggers - Dang, you sure are moving along quick. I'm downloading the demo now :D. *works on dishes while waiting for the dowload to finish* *finishes dishes and waits more* Boxes look great, by the way. I think the metal one might look more convincing with rivets, and making the center pannels out of one peice of metal instead of "planks". The current version makes it seem a bit more like grey wood IMHO.

My Jazz is comming along okay. I got distracted by my progress and decided to play around with him a little early :/. It kinda stalled my work on him, which is kind of a bummer, since all that needs done is the rest of the UV map being unwrapped (just the top of the feet, and some work with the legs), and then a more complete and refined bone structure. Then there is animating... I've never gotten this far with a model before, so I'm just going to have to see how things go.

*download is finished* Sweeet! Dang, I was really wanting to start jumping accross those platforms and stuff :). It really does look like Jazz 2 in 3D. The boxes did look rather small though. *plays again, this time testing the weapons*... Okay, the weapons fire seriously lags my machine. Normally I get an average around 300 FPS when the FPS is unlocked. The bouncers lag me more than the regular fire. I think, when using weapon 1, that the lag only really kicks in when the shots reach their limit and start vanishing in puffs of smoke. Perhaps there should be a limit on how many shots a player can have moving in the game at one time?

I've got
an AMD Athalon XP 2700+,
an Nvidia GeForce 4 ti with 8x AGP (128MB of video RAM)
512 MB of RAM (DDR? I forger the type)
Soundblaster Audigy (1)

The destruction animations of the boxes and blocks are right on, btw.

my jazz so far...
http://www.purrhead.thj.no/screenshots/jazz_model/jazz_grassy_relax.jpg

[Olsen]

Awesome work Baggers!

@Hare: Haha, cool model! :)

[Baggers]

haha..that model looks so (-)(-)(-)(-) cool just lying there !..v.nice work !...for those wondering which jazz model will be in the game, the answer is they both will, and you can choose between them....hope thats sounds ok to everyone ?!

Also concerning weapons again...which do you prefer, the original weapons or the OEM weapons?....also seeing as the 'weapon 0' thing is back in conversation do you thik i should have one ?

[LittleFreak]

Make a weapon 0! ;)

[Baggers]

hehe what would it be though .... i need scetches...even if they are on paint (but save a jpeg please !)

@hare: also man can i have that grass texture please!
<edit> thanks for the comments...ive improved the firing code so it doesnt eat so much fps, should be good ingame, one of the reasons that the lag also kicks it is that if the fps is 300 then the gun starts firing at 5 times its normal rate, and this puts real strain on the engine, but hopefuly that is sorted for now !

[DoubleGJ]

@Hare: backpack straps should be red.

[Baggers]

Hey again people, just thought id treat you to another video, this time with sounds (which has beefed up the video size to 8meg)....as you will see in the video, the homing missiles are started, and do home...at this point only on a fake enemy..yep its a box with a picture of a turtle on!
So here it is folks the latest video...and also as i love this pics, another concept shot by Hare (hope thats ok with you hare!)
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video07.avi

http://www.purrhead.thj.no/screenshots/jazz_model/diamondus_flight_speedway.jpg

[cooba]

The seeker flew for way longer than it should IMO. It should explode somewhere mid-air after a few seconds, like in 1.23, (In OEM, they fly faster and longer, which is sux.)

[Baggers]

Okidokey...yeah most of the weapons fly too far at the mo, will be sorting that soon !

[piet]

cool model! a few more things to add and it perfect.
i was thinking, is this project gonna be open source (like we can get the source of this model).

[Baggers]

Thats what i was planning...of course if the modelers dont want this ill have to look into encryption...however all of the code is definatly opensource

[piet]

thats cool maybe i can use a few of your models in my game or edit it and make skins. BTW i can allso help you with a nice website.

[Baggers]

You mean graphics for the site ?
Oh by the way Razz Arena looks great !...been looking through the pics, love the castle level !

[Hare]

Yeah, the jazz model will be free to use by anyone, which should be great for future fangames.

I'm doing a bit more work on it to lower the poly count. Some of the polygonal details I added don't even show up well, and would work much better as textures. (Mainly the hands. Maybe I can cut back some polys elsewhere too.) Its a pain in the bottom, but it isn't all gone to waste. It is great experience. UV editing is like the sudden stop at the end that ruins all the fun of falling from a high place :P.

Oh yeah, and I noticed the level was in .x format, and decided to see if I could mess with stuff. Quite unusually, I had absolutely no problem with it.
http://www.purrhead.thj.no/screenshots/jazz_model/jazz_ingame_2-25.jpg

[Stijn]

pageclaim

[LittleFreak]

That picture looks really nice Hare. :)

However, Jazz looks like he'd float in the air. :P

[Baggers]

@Hare: Awesome !
@LittleFreak, dont worry...im getting some kind of shadow in there soon. once i can work out how to get it to bend round objects, tricky stuff!

[Hare]

Oh, and Baggers, here's the grass texture and the green "corndog" tree model...

http://www.purrhead.thj.no/art_for_others/tree-green_corndog.zip

[Baggers]

Hey there !, just another couple of pics to feast your goggle sockets on, One showing the tree Hare made (and the texture quickly stuck on the floor) and the second is me trying a huge single object landscape...you can just about see spaz on the top of the badly textured mountain (dont worry things will look much nicer in game !)
I am just a bout to write a system that makes an object that i can use as water....will show you soon !

Pic 1: http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Tree1.jpg
Pic 2: http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Mountain.jpg

[Olsen]

@Baggers: The landscape looks pretty cool. Keep it up baggers, you´re doing great! :D

[cooba]

The dots on oval tree could use some shading, unless they're shaded already (I can't see because it's a JPG.)

[n00b]

That mass landscape looks cool!

[DoubleGJ]

Reminds me of Grass Hill in Blockland. And that's good.