Tales of Uberbob strategy thread ( No Radiums >O )

[Fawriel]

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=13234

This thread is to discuss strategies for battles in the Uberbob thread. Rad made test battles, but of course, those were against single individuals. We can't win if everyone pursues a different goal and not everyone has the same knowledge of things.

[Risp_old]

Wondering why I so love ninja speed? Well, it's won me several practice matches. But... how? I'm not telling you outright, but here's a hint- it can be used at ANY point in your turn. <Even after attacking.> You just need to know the right moment to use it- when the opponent has left himself open you can do a good twenty damage with shuri using it!

[Ae]

I have a great idea, lets try to get the HP of all the enemies down to zero, while keeping all of our characters' HP above zero!

[acid]

Okay, for my beginning strategy:

Shuriken: E, SE, S, attack Spoy
Leetzan: Summon enchantresphere 1 SW of Spoy, SW
Sphere: Attack Spoy

This way, we both attack Spoy on the first turn, and block all enemies from getting to Leetzan. If we defend Leetzan like this, she will be able to cast her spells without danger. From here, we hold out 7 turns for Fooruman.

Also, the enchantresphere could be swapped for a water elemental.

[cooba]

Also, the enchantresphere could be swapped for a water elemental.Unfoo would unsummon it instantly.


...or would he?

[Fawriel]

..no, AE. The enemy has healing skills.

..personally, I don't feel like working on this thread anymore for today. And I still have no idea how Shuriken can do that much damage in one turn..
*shrugs*

Anyway, here's my initial tactic for the new fight:

First, make both characters defend. Move Leetzy west, too, to get her away from Spotty. Then summon the Enchantresphere right next to Spotty, in a way that won't let him pass to L33tzy.
If my calculations are correct, Unfooruman will use Unsummon on it and Spotty will use a special attack I think he has, both of which should fail on it.
So in the next turn, Mythslayer could be summoned and Unfooruman manipulated to attack Spotty.. Mythslayer casts Slay and attacks normally... And Shuriken attacks, too..
...hmm..
Actually, Mythslayer might as well be replaced by Water Elemental if the Enchantresphere is there.. but if we knew how Shuriken can deal that much damage, it all wouldn't be a problem... hmmmm.

[acid]

Unfoo would unsummon it instantly.

That's debatable. On one hand, it would be smart, to allow Spoy access to Leetzan. On the other hand, Unfoo looks like he saves his unsummon for the mythslayer...

[Fawriel]

He did use it on the Water Elemental once.

[acid]

Really? When? I thought he used it on the mythslayer both times.

[Fawriel]

I'm pretty sure he did in the first battle..

[cooba]

He didn't.

[acid]

He didn't (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=290452&postcount=73).

[Fawriel]

..oh. That means that any summon except for the Mythslayer is safe from instant death...

[Ae]

Do you think that if we do something outside, before the battle, something might happen to make the battle easier? I am messing around with the man now.

[Fawriel]

Definitely not.

[Risp_old]

I seriously doubt Radium will allow it.

[Torkell]

Character stats
Note that the details of foes is incomplete. I'll try to update it as we find out more about them

Friendlies
Shruiken
Attack 5
Movement 4
HP 16
Haste: +1 movement to Shruiken from next turn
Ninja speed: +2 movement to Shruiken until end of turn. If used at end of turn, allows a second attack

L33tz4n
Attack 3
Movement 3
HP 9
Hypnotise: control target enemy for one turn. Enemy can't act next turn
Summon mythslayer: summons Mythslayer to target location
Summon water elemental: summons water elemental to target location
Summon Enchantresphere: summons enchantresphere to target location

Fooruman
In first battle, megawarps in on 8th turn to 1st row 4th column, cannot act until end of turn
Attack 6
Movement 2
HP 19
2xDispell: Negate spell effects on target character
Heal: target character restores 15 HP
Raise: Revive target dead character, and character restores 1/2 of total HP
Foshzzle: Attack based on damge Fooruman has taken
Ramming speed: +8 attack, +2 movement until end of turn for Fooruman. Must be used before moving

Friendly summons
Mythslayer
Attack 4
Movement 3
HP 11
Slay: target character loses 1/3 of current HP. Must wait one turn before casting

Water Elemental
Attack 5
Movement 2
HP 8

Enchantresphere
Attack 4
Movement 2
HP 9
Is immune to magic

Foes
Spotty
Attack 4
Movement 2
HP 22
2xPower gun: charms target character with "restore 12 HP per turn"
(infinite)xHealing gun: target character restores 15 HP
Popcorn gun: generates popcorn

Unfooruman
Attack 6
Movement 3
HP 38
Unsummon: unsummon target summon
2xSlay: target character loses 1/3 of current HP
Toxic blood: does 2 damage to target character, and curses character with "lose 2 HP per turn"
Raise: revive target dead character, and character restores 1/2 of total HP
2xHeal: target character restores ? HP
Slow: curses target character with "-1 movement"
Poison: does 1 damage to target character, and curses character with "lose 1 HP per turn"


Important battle notes
Again, subject to change as more information is known

Characters take Double damage if they cast a spell that turn.
Characters take Half damage if they are defending that turn.
Characters take Normal damage if they both cast a spell and defend in the same turn.
You can move diagonally. Diagonal moves do not cost extra.
Only one spell per character may be cast per turn. Summons can be targeted anywhere on the battlefield.



8:00p 21/6/5: updated based on Strato's post
9:00p 22/6/5: added Unfoo's 'slow' spell.
7:00p 23/6/5: added Unfoo's "poison" and Spotty's "popcorn" spells.

[Strato]

Most of my ideas were crafted before I knew that Fooruman would appear, so Fooruman can change the overall strategy slightly, but the feeling is still there.

[Risp_old]

No, spotty has two charges each of his healing gun and his power gun, unless Radium changed that from the trial battles (which seems unlikely).

[Strato]

Radium and Risp told me to delete my post.

[Fawriel]

I have it ALL memorized! Muahaha!

[Torkell]

Well, my post should be safe as it's almost entirely based on information gleaned from the battles so far. Strato's just clarified the casting limits for Spotty and Unfooruman.

[MSB3000]

at the very begining, hypnotise Spotty to shoot a friendly with his Power Gun.
and if we lose again, kill the CD guy in the "save" hallway before he has a chance to become the Spotty.

[Fawriel]

Tried both, not possible.

[MSB3000]

when did we try to KILL the CD guy before the battle?
from what i remember, we stole his CD player, told him there was no soap in the bathrooms, and then stole his book so he got angry and went into the next room.

[Risp_old]

We said to kill him but Radium ignored us. On purpose.

[cooba]

...it's impossible. Deal with it.

[MSB3000]

>((

[Ae]

What I was trying to do was just to see if there is anything that could be done out there that might affect the battle in any way, not specifically killing the man.
<STRIKE>Maybe you can threaten Spoy with tossing the book/CD Player into the lava?</STRIKE>

[Blackraptor]

Can you attack, use ninja speed, then attack again (Cause ninja speed gives you extra movement, boosting you from 0 to 2 after you've attacked)?


Yes, actually.

I win.

[Strato]

No you don't. I had already been told that and posted it here. But alas, by requests of the "ToU Staff", I deleted it.

[Risp_old]

Because I wanted them to figure out the tricks themselves rather then relying on insiderish information.

[Ae]

Should we try whoever-it-was' idea to cast Haste over Spotty's Power Gun? Assuming Shuriken even can cast Haste on others besides herself.

[Risp_old]

She can.

[MSB3000]

who is Spoy?
who is Spotty?

sorry for being stupid

[Risp_old]

Spoy is short for Spotty. Spotty is both, in different contexts, a JJ2 player and Unfooruman's minion. If my brain was working properly now I could tell you more, so for now go watch the foo movies or something for more details. (http://www.fooproducts.com/FooMovies.shtml)

[n00b]

when did we try to KILL the CD guy before the battle?
from what i remember, we stole his CD player, told him there was no soap in the bathrooms, and then stole his book so he got angry and went into the next room.
Before that I had suggested to get rid of his disguise and attack him.

[MSB3000]

i'm past that now. it's all right. we can move on.

*beep*

[acid]

Unfoo just showed us a new move: he has some sort of slow power. -1 movement to target.

[cooba]

Seeing as Fooruman will megawarp by this turn, we should try moving Unfoo away from Fooruman's warping position (1N, 4E).

[Torkell]

Unfoo just showed us a new move: he has some sort of slow power. -1 movement to target.
Updated stats post.

[Risp_old]

Actually, I would reccomend to raise l33tz4n. A mythslayer would be useful here for it's simple stats (and if unfoo unsummons it, he's open for attack), and if you leave shuri's dead body there spotty can't come out to attack the party (and he's out of spells).

[cooba]

and if you leave shuri's dead body there spotty can't come out to attack the party (and he's out of spells).And how can we hurt him, then?

[Risp_old]

We don't have to. The battle is over once we kill unfooruman. Oh, and one more alternate strategy is to use ramming speed to have fooruman run so he can use spells at his leisure and to give the summons more time to fight unfoo.

[cooba]

O...k.

So now we need just to attack Unfoo using ordinary attacks. Seeing as he's trying to escape the Sphere, the best we could do is to surround him, and then slash him.

Or does anyone have a better idea?

[MSB3000]

we win. *dances*

[White Rabbit]

The game's over now? Time for part 4? :/

[Fawriel]

Hm?

[n00b]

No no no, we just beat Unfoo and Spoy, not the whole game.

[acid]

And now this thread goes dormant until the next climatic battle, I guess...

[White Rabbit]

But I thouht Unfooruman was the most evil character? :/
And I thought Spoy was against Unfooruman (from the Foo movies).

[Risp_old]

Look, Blackraptor is the ultimate evil.

[acid]

...And I thought Spoy was against Unfooruman (from the Foo movies).

Obviously you haven't watched them in a while.

[White Rabbit]

The Foo movies are fooish. I watched all of them except the two latest ones, because they were probably going to be twice as fooish (they improve on fooishness over time).

[acid]

Just do me a favor and watch #1 and #2 right now. Spoy is Unfoo's minion.

[n00b]

And watch 10 to find out how Spoy became Unfoo's minion.

[Ae]

We need a better strategy, people!

[Fawriel]

Like.. stop doing random nonsense?

[Coppertop]

Mm. Random topic revivals are bad. Please quit.

[Ae]

No, really. Does anybody know what we could do? I ran out of ideas.

[Risp_old]

Like.. stop doing random nonsense?
</i>

[Ae]

It wasn't ALL random nonsense ;l

[MSB3000]

Thread revival.

What should we do?

[Ae]

We should find out what to do.

[MSB3000]

Good idea. How do we start?

EDIT: Let's list some clues.

Frozen sea.
Missing Sam.

:Z

[Risp_old]

Dev has already slipped you a fairly major hint, and so did I when I was a DM. His was more elegantly done and useful, though.

[Ae]

Maybe its the low water levels at the pier, I kept not feeling like checking that

[Dev]

Alright, things already look pretty shady. It would have been excellent if we had Manaflared Araches/L33tz4n so we could keep Perfect Solstice under our command, but that ship has sailed. Before we use another spell, we need to decide who gets the Manaflare. I recommend either Uberbob/Fawriel, Fooruman, or Grandma Conquista. We just have to decide if we want perpetual healing or a big gun with limitless ammo.

And we need to deal with Shuri. Being controlled doesn't appear as an ailment, so we can't save her. Furious could take her out, but he'd be left open to the Hydras. I'd hate to waste Lightning on her, but she has that Ninja Speed spell and we can't let her use it. Thoughts?

EDIT: I was wrong, their hypnosis works just like ours. Shuri can't attack next turn, but then she'll be ours again.

[Fawriel]

Ooooo, I didn't even think about Manaflare that way.
But we definitely want unlimited healing. I think.

...if nobody minds, I probably won't give any commands in our first attempt at this battle and instead just observe how things work out. If nobody minds.

[Dev]

...if nobody minds, I probably won't give any commands in our first attempt at this battle and instead just observe how things work out. If nobody minds.

Just keep contributing to the strategy, kay? We need lots of different ideas.

(I doubt I'll give any commands, either, unless things really slow down.)

[Torkell]

I'm also unlikely to give actual commands, but I'll try to help by redoing my stats post:

Character stats
Note that the details of foes is incomplete. I'll try to update it as we find out more about them


Friendlies
Araches/L33tz4n
Attack 4
Movement 3
HP 20
Lightning: 10 points o' damage to whatever you want
Haste: Charm target with "+2 movement", starting next turm
Poison: Curse target with "lose 1 HP per turn"
Bloodlust: Charm target with "+2 attack"
Hypnotise: Control target opponent for one turn. Target opponent can't act next turn
Summon Mythslayer: Summon Mythslayer to target location
Summon Water Elemental: Summon Water Elemental to target location
Summon Enchantresphere: Summon Enchantresphere to target location

Grandma Conquista
Attack 7
Movement 1
HP 24
Fireball: 6 points o' damage to whatever you want
Hellfishy: 15 points o' damage to whatever you want

Furious the Monkeyboy
Is immune to magic.
Attack 8
Movement 2
HP 22

Scholar Sam
Attack 3
Movement 2
HP 15
Mana Flare: Charm target with "character's spells are no longer used up when cast"
Animate Dead: Rasie someone and take control of them. They go back to being dead next turn
Seppuku: Target attacks itself with strength equal to target's attack
Manifest Destiny: Create a block on target location (40HP). Block can be destroyed with melee attacks
Unload Mana: Charm Sam with "Sam may cast any number of spells in his turn. Sam's defense will halve each time he uses this ability"

Faw/Uberbob
Attack 6
Movement 2
HP 24
Fysics Phailure: Curse the target with "random attack strength; 50% chance of healing when attacking"
Randomtacklemanashackle: Curse target with "lose 4 hp each time this character casts a spell"
Anti Magic: Disenchant target and make target immune to magic
Heal: Target restores 10 HP
Raise: Revive target dead character, and character restores 1/2 of total HP

Shuriken
Attack 5
Movement 4
HP 17
Haste: Charm target with "+1 movement", starting next turm.
Ninja speed: +2 movement to Shuriken until end of turn. If used at end of turn, allows a second attack
Foshzzle: Attack based on damge Shuriken has taken

Fooruman
Attack 5
Movement 2
HP 20
Dispell: Negate spell effects on target character
Heal: Target character restores 15 HP
Raise: Revive target dead character, and character restores 1/2 of total HP
Foshzzle: Attack based on damge Fooruman has taken
Ramming speed: +8 attack, +2 movement until end of turn for Fooruman. Must be used before moving


Friendly summons
Mythslayer
Attack 4
Movement 3
HP 11
Slay: target character loses 1/3 of current HP

Water Elemental
Attack 5
Movement 2
HP 8

Enchantresphere
Attack 4
Movement 2
HP 9
Is immune to magic


Foes
Ice Hydra
Attack 6
Movement 2
HP 20 (except for one with 21 HP)

Snow Succubus
Attack 4
Movement 3
HP 38
Hypnotise: Control target opponent for one turn. Target opponent can't act next turn
Raise: Revive target dead character, and character restores 1/2 of total HP
2xHeal: Target character restores 10 HP
Summon Frost Lawyer: Summon Frost Lawyer #1 to target location

Perfect Solstice
Attack 7
Movement 1
HP 39
Legacy: Remove any curse on Solstice, fully heal Solstice, double defense of Solstice. Gives Solstice the ability to teleport to any accessible location on the map (not a charm).
Slay: Target character loses 1/3 of current HP
Dispell: Negate spell effects on target character
2xKudzu: Give Solstice another attack this turn
2xDisbalance: Halves defense of target character and deals 3 damage to that character


Unfriendly Summons
Frost Lawyer #1
Attack 4
Movement 2
HP 12
Summon Frost Lawyer: Summon Frost Lawyer #2 to target location

Frost Lawyer #2
Attack 4
Movement 2
HP 12
Summon Frost Lawyer: Summon Frost Lawyer #3 to target location

Frost Lawyer #3
Attack 4
Movement 2
HP 12
Transfer health: deal 10 points o' damge to target character, then heal 10 points on another character


Important battle notes
Again, subject to change as more information is known

Characters take Double damage if they cast a spell that turn.
Characters take Half damage if they are defending that turn.
Characters take Normal damage if they both cast a spell and defend in the same turn.
You can move diagonally. Diagonal moves do not cost extra.
Dead people obstruct movement.
We can only cast one spell per turn. Spells may be targeted anywhere and do not require line of sight.
Grouped characters (e.g. A/L) attack together and take damage together.
Attacking counts as a move, and ends movement.
You can move the same turn you are Raised.
Raise is not affected by magic immunity. Neither is Legacy.
Summons cannot cast spells the turn they are summoned.
You can't cast the spells of someone you hypnotise.
Antimagic can't be dispelled. Nor can Legacy


Right, I think that's all. Feel free to correct me if I've missed something out or made a mistake.

[Risp_old]

Fysics Phaliure is a charm, that causes the target's attack strength to fluctuate. Sorry if that wasn't clear. And manaflare and unload mana are charms. No, you can't stack them and turn Sam into a crazy win-the-battle engine.

[cooba]

Well, the first thing we should do is to Manaflare Araches and Leetzan... that way we have infinite Hypnosis!

[White Rabbit]

Will *hypno* work? :|

[Torkell]

Fysics Phaliure is a charm, that causes the target's attack strength to fluctuate. Sorry if that wasn't clear. And manaflare and unload mana are charms. No, you can't stack them and turn Sam into a crazy win-the-battle engine.
Thanks, I've updated the list.

[Fawriel]

Time for me to state the obvious again! \o/
The only real enemies are Solstice and the Snow Succubus. Solstice must NEVER be allowed to use Legacy. If the endless hypnotism really does work, then woozah!
As for the Succubus, I guess if Solstice has been taken care of, she won't be able to live long through constant thrashing.

[Ae]

Only one spell per character may be cast per turn. Spells may be targeted anywhere and do not require line of sight.

Is it really? I thought it was just one spell per turn. Which is it, somebody? D=

We can also try anti-magic-ing perfect solstice, so he cant get legacy.

[Risp_old]

One spell per team per turn. Sorry, I missed that error.

[White Rabbit]

Time for me to state the obvious again! \o/
The only real enemies are Solstice and the Snow Succubus. Solstice must NEVER be allowed to use Legacy. If the endless hypnotism really does work, then woozah!
As for the Succubus, I guess if Solstice has been taken care of, she won't be able to live long through constant thrashing.
Ok, infinite hypnotism doesn't work. Let's just not attack Solstice at all, because it will be wasted effort.

And Shuriken got *hypno*ed last battle, so we should try not to let her do anything nasty. :| She is in the perfect position to get *hypno*ed to move to 3,2, attack Araches/Leetsan and get attacked by the Solstice and two hydras! Instant death!

[Risp_old]

Also, it might be helpful to know that legacy allows Solstice to teleport. It doesn't just give him infinate movement. He can go to any open spot on the map (except one surrounded on all 8 sides by people or corpses).

[Torkell]

Thanks, I've amended the description.

Edit: hmm, we are somewhat screwed. We can take the Solstice out with a Seppuku and then attacking it, and hopefully that'll then count as a win for us.

[White Rabbit]

...er..I don't think it will. :p Let's just kill Solstice, lose, and get on with it. Oh, and I wonder why Cooba had to let Grandma stand right between 3 hydras, when he had the choice of making her move between 2 instead. :( :(

[Risp_old]

If you just needed to kill Solstice to win, I'd have won a lot more of the playtests.

[White Rabbit]

If using infinite hypno on Solitice is important, then we could perhaps sacrifice other powerful spells at the start of the game, and Manaflare when the Solstice has used up its new green/red flame spell.
And don't hurt Solstice until it has used Legacy. I really think damage done beforehand does nothing, and puts the attacker at risk.

EDIT: Will the statue help? :|

[Risp_old]

A.K.A. dispel.

[White Rabbit]

I disagree with Ae's decision to move Shuri so close to the enemy position, since she can be killed easily. Also, we've seen what happened last time when manaflare was wasted on Araches/Leetsan.

[White Rabbit]

Let's play defensively this time. :| I am trying to force Solstice to use Legacy prematurely with Sam's box (because it's probably not going to get attacked any time soon and the hydras will be in the way until they move :p). Next turn, we should use Randomtackle Manashackle on Succubus or Solstice, so maybe Dispel will be used on Randomtackle Manashackle and we can then proceed with the Manaflare + *hypno* combo.

Oh, and we can still use Unload mana if we want to use any other spells apart from the box one. Suggestions?

[Fawriel]

..you know, if we give a character with a powerful spell an unlimited amount of uses for the spell.. then make that person unreachable by planting corpses around them ( which would abound sooner or later anyway )...

Heck, we could even lock up a healer and a powerful spell person in one field so the healer could protect the spellcaster from dying...
I'd suggest Grandma Conquista with her Hellfishy.. I think. I didn't actually check who has the most powerful spells and lots of HP.

If you didn't get what I was saying, the scenario I thought of looks like this:
______
|SC
|CC<s></s>

S= Spellcaster
C= Corpses of IMPENETRABLEstuff.
The spellcaster could only be hurt by spells.. and there aren't many of those in the enemy party, as it seems.

[White Rabbit]

Leetsan/Araches can easily be surrounded by Furious and Shuriken.
I wonder..can you heal boxes? :P
EDIT: I think we could get manaflare to stay on someone by *hypno*tising Solstice first, then manaflare. But Solstice can still use dispel, and I'm sure Radium isn't stupid enough not to cast dispel on someone with a powerful offensive spell like lightning or hellfishy while standing behind 3 corpses. ;p

[Fawriel]

Sure you CAN..

[Risp_old]

Boxes made by manifest density are spell immune. So, no healing. On the other hand, solstice can't bust them with disbalance (santa clause spell thing). They were made spell immune because me and Rad were worried someone might try hasting one and using it as a crazy mobile wall. And also break it's sprite.

[Ae]

I was thinking along the lines of summoning a bunch of elementals, if possible.
We could use haste on somebody, like Conquista who has the highest damage, so she could move and attack in one turn. Bloodlust could be used best on Faw/Uberbob, or Shuriken. Both, even.

And Here (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=323062&postcount=1173) is a quick link to the post with a clean battlefield, so you don't have to look for it.

[White Rabbit]

We can only summon 3 units over the course of 3 turns, so I think we need manaflare for lots of summons. (That's what Randomtackle Ramshackle is for...to draw attention to Solistice's dispel and perhaps cause some damage as well).
And Risp: does that mean you can order the box to move around? ;o

[Risp_old]

It's just a normal unit with 0 movement and attack points. If you found some way to haste it despite it's spell immunity, it could indeed move. And it's sprite would also be messed up a bit, but still.

[White Rabbit]

Well, ok.
..what the heck do you use as a battle-simulator program?
And is everyone ok with my moves?

[Risp_old]

Me and Rad coded a battle engine from scratch in GameMaker.

[White Rabbit]

We can use Fooruman's ramming speed against Ice Hydra, then Shuriken's Ninja speed to inflict 23 damage in total, not counting the hydra's defence. This will kill the hydra over the course of 2 turns. On the other hand, we will do 3 damage and get hurt badly if Succubus heals Ice Hydra twice (in those two turns), but she will no longer be able to heal, provided 2xheal is all she has.

[White Rabbit]

I told you, Ae. :(
We wasted Manaflare, and Shuriken is at a dangerously low HP. She can only go SW, S to avoid getting killed.
However, we can sacrifice her:

Shuriken: SE. Ninja speed. Attack Ice hydra. Attack Ice hydra.
Araches/Leetsan: E. Attack Ice Hydra.
Furious: Attack Ice hydra.
Grandma: Defend.
Sam: Defend.
Faw/Bob/Fooruman: N.

How does that sound? Will it be worth it, since the Ice hydra can just get revived by Succubs? Or should we protect Shuri first, then use Foshzzle and kill Ice hydra with Shuri's Foshzzle and Furious' 8 attack? We could also stack Foshzzle and Ninja speed, now that Solstice can no longer dispel. 8D

And why didn't anyone agree or disagree with me? If you do, say so. If you don't, say so! :(

[Risp_old]

The attack and speed bonus of ramming speed apply to only the turn when it is cast.

[White Rabbit]

And Ninja speed lasts 1 turn only as well. (I meant Ninja speed, not haste). Fooruman would cause 13 damage to Jim and Shuriken, next round, would case 10 damage. Is that how Ninja speed works? :(
It's too late now, since Sam's box is in the way and we will lose Shuriken if we move here anywhere else other than SW, S. That was an opening move.

[Ae]

You should have told me he could dispell it D=

[White Rabbit]

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=323347&postcount=84
Sorry, I didn't specify what the green/red flame was, but Risp did.
Also: http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=323439&postcount=86
And here's why Shuriken is so vulnerable:

And Shuriken got *hypno*ed last battle, so we should try not to let her do anything nasty. :| She is in the perfect position to get *hypno*ed to move to 3,2, attack Araches/Leetsan and get attacked by the Solstice and two hydras! Instant death!

[Ae]

I thought you meant that it was wasted on Araches/L33tz4n because they died from not defending them.
Well, can't go back now.

What about:

Conquista: Hfishy Ice Hydra with one more HP then the rest
Sam: Seppuku on the Ice Hydra with one more HP then the rest, then Animate dead on the one that just died

Shuri: SE, Attack Ice Hydra
Araches/L33tz4n:E, Attack Ice Hydra
Furious: Attack Ice Hydra
Animated Ice Hydra with more HP than the rest: Attack Ice Hydra

That would take care of two of the Ice Hydras in one turn, with minimal loss on our side.

[White Rabbit]

I've combined Ae's strategy with mine.

First round:
Conquista: Hfishy Ice Hydra with one more HP then the rest
Sam: Seppuku on the Ice Hydra with one more HP then the rest, then Animate dead on the one that just died
Faw/Bob/Fooruman: N.
Shuriken: SW, S.
Furious: Attack Ice Hydra
Araches/L33tz4n: E, Attack Ice Hydra
Animated Ice Hydra with more HP than the rest: Attack Ice Hydra

Second round:
Furious: Attack Ice Hydra.
Araches/Leetsan: Attack Ice Hydra.
Sam: Defend.
Grandma: Defend.
Shuriken: Defend.
Faw/Bob: Heal on Shuriken (she can be killed by a teleporting Solstice :().
Fooruman: Defend.

The formation of Grandma/Sam/Faw-Bob/Fooruman is quite strong, and we should hold it until all spells have run out. :p

I will also make appropriate arrangements for round 2, depending on how Radium moves his pesky hydras. Also,

[Risp_old]

I looked through your strategy, and I saw a way it would be possible to kill both icehydras without using hellfishy. I don't have Radium's permission to tell it to you, though.

[White Rabbit]

Well, can you at least tell us whether that is possible in 1 round or 2? I can't find anything for killing both in 1 round flat.

EDIT: I couldn't find anything. :(
This is the closest:
Shuri: Foshuzzle, attack Ice hydra.
Furious: Attack Ice hydra.
Araches/Leetsan: N, NE, attack 21hp Ice hydra.
Sam: Animate dead on Ice hydra. Seppuku 21hp Ice hydra.
Animated Ice hydra: Attack 21hp Ice hydra.

Anyone else?

EDIT 2: And somehow Araches/Leetsan got killed. :| Should we raise her, or heal Shuriken?

[Risp_old]

In 1 round.

[Torkell]

Some food for thought: what happens if we use Anti Magic on Solstice? Can it then cast Legacy?

[Risp_old]

It can. Legacy is marked as an item, so it ignores magic immunity.

[Fawriel]

Well.. we could now easily kill an Ice Hydra and do a lot of damage to the Snow Succubus... as soon as she's gone, the rest will be so much easier anyway.

[White Rabbit]

Hm, how, Faw? The last time we did Ramming speed on Succubus, Fooruman got attacked by Succubus, 2 hydras and Solstice, and he received double damage because he cast a spell. Succubus would take a lot of damage, but she has 2x heal, and Fooruman will get killed instantly.

Instead, I recommend Faw/Bob's revive on Araches/Leetsan, then move them N of Shuriken. Then Furious kills the hydra, and the rest defend.

Next turn, hypno on Succubus and move her right under Grandma...muwahah.

[Fawriel]

Hmm. Doesn't sound bad.

[White Rabbit]

Furious: Attack Ice hydra.
Faw/Bob: Use revive on Araches/Leetsan. Then defend.
Araches/Leetsan: W, NW, S.
Shuriken: Defend.
Grandma: Defend.
Fooruman: Defend.
Sam: Defend.

[cooba]

Also we should use Shuri's Foshizzle when we have got a chance...

[White Rabbit]

Yes, later, when she can actually go somewhere, and nobody else has anything to do. But since Araches/Leetsan are blocking her way, then we should use most of their spells first, because we need the summonables/hypno.

[White Rabbit]

Success! We forced Solstice to use Legacy without hurting him! And we can still use *hypno* to kill Succubus! *double-posts in celebration*

Now, we are still kinda separated and the enemy are concentrating on one front, so we must quickly come up with something to save Furious, Araches/Leetsan and Shuriken. I think we should kill Succubus ASAP, since she has resurrect and we don't want an extra hydra popping back.

My moves:
Furious: S, attack Jim.
Araches/Leetsan: *hypno* on Succubus, then defend.
Hypnoed Succubus: 2xE. Then attack self. (Can you make hypnoed people do this?)
Grandma: Attack Succubus.
Faw/Bob: W, attack Succubus.
Fooruman: W, attack Succubus.
Sam: Defend.
Shuriken: Defend.

[Fawriel]

Hmm. If we hypnotized her to meet up with all the good guys in the upper right corner, she'd receive some severe thrashing.. but I guess you already thought of that.. *shrugs*

..I really don't have any brilliant ideas. Except of course to use the Mythslayer's "Slay" to help kill Solstice.

And PROTECT OUR HEALERS!

EDIT: If you can make hypnotized people attack themselves, that sounds good. If not, I guess making her move on further west and have Sam attack her wouldn't make that much of a difference.

[White Rabbit]

1 HP difference with Sam, heh, but I'd like Radium to feel the irony. :p
Also, I think we should kill off Succubus next round (no heal or ressurect for them anymore), then use Shuri's Foshzzle (12 damage + 8 of Jim's damage) to kill Jim. Then we will lose Jim, because he will be attacked by two hydras and Solstice, but it'll be worth it.

[Fawriel]

Hmm. If she can hurt herself when hypnotized.. there's probably also a way to have Sam attack her as well..

[MSB3000]

Don't forget about Randomtackle, Fysics Phailure etc...

[Fawriel]

Those are random, sir. We can use them while we're not urgently in the need of removing a dire enemy.

[White Rabbit]

Hmm. If she can hurt herself when hypnotized.. there's probably also a way to have Sam attack her as well..
I don't think there's a way...she can only hurt herself if she moves 2xE, not 3xE, which is the place she can be reached by all 4 of our heroes.

And Canti, with their main spell caster gone, we won't need to use Randomtackle manashackle, because there is always Lightning, Water elemental and Fireball.

So, all agreed? ;o

[Fawriel]

Well, they can move, too. She has a movement of 3, so she can move 2xE, then hurt herself, and then there's probably some way for the guys to move and then attack........ heck, it might even help to defend the magic users. *shrugs*


Generally, ask Rad whether hurting herself is even possible, and if so, just try to find a way to do this ( I would, but I'm about to go ) and then I agree.

[MSB3000]

So, all agreed? ;o

Sounds good.}>

[White Rabbit]

Well, they can move, too. She has a movement of 3, so she can move 2xE, then hurt herself, and then there's probably some way for the guys to move and then attack........ heck, it might even help to defend the magic users. *shrugs*
I am looking at the battle plan right now, and have decided that Fooruman needs 3 moves to attack Succubus if Sam and Faw attack. Grandma can only attack, not move.

EDIT: I have this theory that the time Rad takes to reply is directly proportional to how badly we are losing. Because he's so slow at the moment, we must be gaining the upper hand. :(

[Dev]

Does anyone else think we should raise Araches/L33tz4n? Fooruman has full health, so if we move him out of the last Hydra's attack range he'll at least survive the next turn. We could really use Lightning and the summons right about now.

[Fawriel]

YES! Just what I was going to say!
And don't anyone dare to neglect the other characters when making a good move. ;/
"Rest: Defend" is your friend.
And I suggest making Uberfaw move N+W and Fooruman to take the place they used to stand ( if I remember correctly.. ).. that way, Ice Hydra wouldn't be able to attack next turn, and it would be less likely for Frosty to attack Uberfaw after raising Leetzaraches..


Also, if stuff works out and you'll try to go on while I'm in school or somewhere, I'd greatly suggest making Shuri and Leetzaraches change places for their protection. Their summons are, I believe, VITAL in defeating Solstice.

[White Rabbit]

What I think...

Fooruman: N.
Shuri: Haste on Faw/Bob, attack the box.
Faw/Bob: 2xW, attack ICE HYDRA.
Grandma: W.
Sam: 2xW.

I am strongly against resurrecting Araches/Leetsan before Solstice has used Kudzu, so we kinda need a good incentive for Solstice to use Kudzu before a resurrection.

[Dev]

I completely forgot Kudzu, good thinking WR.

And btw guys, I spoke to Rad and he mentioned that he had more spells. I'm not sworn to secrecy like Risp is since I've never been involved in testing, so I can tell you that I'm 90% sure Solstice has a summon, and I also think this summon can call MORE summons. Just a heads-up, I haven't actually seen this stuff in motion. He mentioned the Frost Lawyer to me, but it might have belonged to the SS.

[White Rabbit]

Two possibilities, if Solstice uses only known spells:
Round 1. Fooruman raises Araches/Leetsan, defends. Faw goes NW. Grandma W. Sam defends. Araches/Leetsan defends.
Round 2. (1) Solstice can use Kudzu to cause 7 damage to Araches/Leetsan, leaving them with 3 HP. That leaves the hydra to attack Bob/Faw or Fooruman. Faw casts heal on Araches/Leetsan and attacks ICE HYDRA, killing it. Everyone else defends. (2) Solstice can use Kudzu and, with ICE HYDRA's attack, kill Fooruman. No revive for Araches/Leetsan, one heal lost, no ramming speed. Faw casts no spells, attacks ICE HYDRA, killing it. Grandma attacks Solstice.
Round 3. (1) Solstice attacks Faw, causing 14 damage, leaving 10. Fooruman can proceed with ramming Solstice, and Grandma attacks Solstice. Araches/Leetsan can use Mythslayer and cause 2 damage to Solstice. (2) Slugging match between Bob/Faw, Grandma and Solstice. Solstice could use summons to give him an advantage, while we have nothing.

Probable outcome: Round 1, round 2 (2), round 3 (3).

Round 1. (1) Fooruman goes N. Shuriken casts Haste on Faw/Bob, and either attacks the box or defends. Faw/Bob goes W, NW, attacks ICE HYDRA, killing it. Grandma goes W. Sam goes 2xW. This seals Solstice in and prevents him from teleporting out. (2) Exactly the same as (1) except Faw/Bob goes 2xW and attacks ICE HYDRA from there.
Round 2. (1) Solstice uses Kudzu and attacks Fooruman. Fooruman uses Raise on Araches/Leetsan and defends. Bob/Faw and Grandma attack Solstice. Araches/Leetsan defends. (2) Solstice has only one chance of escaping and teleports somewhere else. Faw goes N, and blocks off Solstice from Araches/Leetsan. Fooruman raises Araches/Leetsan and defends.
Round 3. (1) Solstice attacks Fooruman, who attacks back. Bob/Faw attacks Solstice. Grandma attacks Solstice. Araches/Leetsan uses Summon mythslayer next to Solstice and defends. Mythslayer attacks Solstice. (2) Araches/Leetsan uses Summon mythslayer S of Bob/Faw, and the mythslayer attacks Solstice. Bob/Faw defends. Sam defends. Fooruman defends.

In the next round, regardless of (1) or (2), Mythslayer can reduce Solstice's HP by a third and Araches/Leetsan can use lightning on him. If Solstice does have summons, mythslayer will probably die, so we may have to change him with something else, except we know nothing about the enemy summonables.

Probable outcome: Round 1 (1), round 2 (1) and round 3 (1).
I will have missed some things out, but nothing too important, so you can see that the second possibility is much more beneficial to us.

[Fawriel]

AAAAGH!

My plan to protect Fooruman stands! And to resurrect Leetaraches, of course! Even more need for summons now. D=

[White Rabbit]

Ok, ok. How about this?

Fawbob: NW, SW.
Fooruman: Raise Araches/Leetsan. E, NE.
Grandma: Defend,
<s>Sam: NW, N.</s>
Shuri: Defend.
Sam: Defend.

Cooba, Sam cannot be moved NW. Where do you want him? I recommend letting Sam stay there to block the way for potentional summonables.

[Fawriel]

Sounds good, I guess.

[White Rabbit]

I was reading the first battle with Shuriken, Araches/Leetsan and Fooruman vs Spoy and Unfooruman...LOL.

EDIT: Sigh...I forgot to make Araches/Leetsan defend themselves. Sorry... :( and Faw didn't tell me to do so either. I also typed 'LOL' because you guys made really stupid mistakes in that battle, but I guess life enjoys playing these kind of games with people. :H

[Ae]

What if Shuri tried attacking the Dev statue?

[White Rabbit]

It's most likely indestructible.

Anyway:
Bob/Faw: NW, W, attack Solstice.
Fooruman: Ramming speed, attack Solstice.
Grandma: W.
Sam: S, SW.
Shuriken: Attack box.

[cooba]

This way Solstice will cast Slay on Fooruman and attack him and kill him D=

Fawbob: NW, W, attack Solstice
Fooruman: NW, W
Conquista: W
Sam: SW, W

[White Rabbit]

No, not Bob/Faw on his own...it's too dangerous.
Solstice has already used up Slay. Surely he can't have two?
Also, Sam can't go SW, but your moves are basically S, SW so it doesn't matter.

Scenario 1:
Round 1
Us.
Bob/Faw: NW, W, attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Fooruman: Ramming speed, attack Solstice. 6 damage done.
Grandma: W.
Sam: S, SW.
Shuriken: Attack box. Box has 20HP.

Him.
ICE HYDRA: N, attack Bob/Faw. Bob/Faw have 18HP.
Solstice: Attack Fooruman. Fooruman has 6HP.

Round 2
Us.
Bob/Faw: Cast Heal on Fooruman, attack ICE HYDRA. Fooruman has 16HP.
ICE HYDRA dies.
Fooruman: Attack Solstice. 2 damage done.
Grandma: Defend.
Sam and Shuriken: Attack box. Box has 12HP.

Him.
Solstice: Attack Bob/Faw. Bob/Faw have 4HP.

Round 3
Us.
Bob/Faw: W, attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Fooruman: W, heal on Shuriken, attack Solstice. 2 damage done.
Grandma: W.
Shuriken and Sam: Attack box. Box has 4HP.

Him.
Solstice: Attack Bob/Faw.
Bob/Faw dies.

Round 4
Us.
Grandma: Attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Fooruman: Attack Solstice. 2 damage done.
Shuriken: Attack box.
Box is destroyed.
Sam: 2xE.

Him.
Solstice: Attack Fooruman. Fooruman has 9HP.

Round 5
Us.
Grandma: Attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Fooruman: Attack Solstice. 2 damage done.
Shuriken: 2xE, NE, N.
Sam: Defend.

Him.
Solstice: Attack Fooruman. Fooruman has 2HP.

Round 6
Fooruman: Foshzzle on Solstice, then attack Solstice. 20 damage done.
Grandma: Attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Shuriken: 2xN.
Sam: Defend.

Results: Solstice and ICE HYDRA die. We win.

Scenario 2:
Round 1
Us.
Bob/Faw: NW, W, attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Fooruman: Ramming speed, attack Solstice. 6 damage done.
Grandma: W.
Sam: S, SW.
Shuriken: Attack box. Box has 20HP.

Him.
ICE HYDRA: Defend.
Solstice: Attack Fooruman. Fooruman has 6HP.

Round 2
Us.
Bob/Faw: Cast Heal on Fooruman, defend. Fooruman has 16HP.
Fooruman: Attack Solstice. 2 damage done.
Grandma: Defend.
Sam and Shuriken: Attack box. Box has 12HP.

Him.
Solstice: Attack Bob/Faw. Bob/Faw have 17HP.
ICE HYDRA: N, attack Bob/Faw. Bob/Faw have 11HP.

Round 3
Us.
Bob/Faw: W, attack ICE HYDRA. 6 damage done.
ICE HYDRA dies.
Fooruman: W, heal on Shuriken, attack Solstice. 2 damage done.
Grandma: W.
Shuriken and Sam: Attack box. Box has 4HP.

Him.
Solstice: Attack Fooruman. Fooruman has 2HP.

Round 4
Us.
Grandma: Attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Fooruman: Foshzzle Solstice. Attack Solstice. 20 damage done.
Bob/Faw: Attack Solstice. 3 damage done.
Shuriken: Attack box.
Box is destroyed.
Sam: 2xE.

Results: Solstice and ICE HYDRA die. We win.

[cooba]

Solstice has already used up Slay. Surely he can't have two?I doubt he can... however, most likely he's got a few health-reducing spells which he would quite enjoy to use on Fooruman. Also keep in mind that Solstice's attack on Fooruman would take 14 damage, so...

[Torkell]

I doubt he can... however, most likely he's got a few health-reducing spells which he would quite enjoy to use on Fooruman. Also keep in mind that Solstice's attack on Fooruman would take 14 damage, so...
Remember that my list is only based on what I've seen so far. It's quite possible Solstice could have a second slay that we've never seen.

[White Rabbit]

Except that we haven't seen the second Slay, or any summons, from our other 2 games. It's not impossible that Solstice doesn't have 2xSlay and summons<s>, and it's also not impossible that ICE HYDRA has the Frozen Volcano spell</s>.

The game is currently in a deadlock, Radium will definetly not attack, we (I) have already lost part of our initiative by allowing Solstice and ICE HYDRA to defend rather than attacking them immediately, so we must act now. There's nothing else to do.

[White Rabbit]

...sigh. I blame myself, but Boggy, you forgot to put in the 'flying sleighman' spell into your Character Stats post.
Anyway:

Fooruman: Heal on Shuriken, attack Solstice. Solstice has 29HP.
Grandma: Defend.
Sam and Shuriken: Attack box. Box has 12HP.
Solstice: Attack Fooruman. Fooruman has 6HP.

Fooruman: SE. Cast Foshzzle on Solstice. NE. Solstice has 15HP.
Grandma: W.
Sam and Shuriken: Attack box. Box has 4HP.
Fooruman: Defend.
Solstice: Attack Grandma. Grandma has 17HP.

Grandma: Attack Solstice. Solstice has 12HP.
Solstice: Attack Grandma. Grandma has 10HP.
Shuriken: Attack box. Box is destroyed.
Sam: 2xNE.
Fooruman: Defend.

Grandma: Attack Solstice. Solstice has 9HP.
Fooruman: Defend.
Sam: N.
Shuriken: 2xE, NE, N.
Solstice: Attack Grandma. Grandma has 3HP.

…I’ll make up the rest as we go along. :P

[Risp_old]

I'm afraid you forgot that solstice has double defense.

[White Rabbit]

Solstice has used his 'sleigh' spell, so the first attack is normal.
The other attacks are reduced by a half.
...does Foshzzle/spell damage deal half damage too? :(

[Risp_old]

Oh. I was too lazy to check all your other numbers.

The proper name for the spell is disbalance, not "that sleigh spell".

[White Rabbit]

No, actually, this is important! Does Foshzzle deal full damage, whether the enemy has extra defence or not? If Foshzzle doesn't deal full damage, we'll have to rethink.

[Risp_old]

Defense only affects attacking. Fo'shizzle isn't affected, just as any other spell.

[Fawriel]

OH! Now that's one heck of a revelation! Awesome.

[cooba]

OH! Now that's one heck of a revelation! Awesome.I think it was told that defending doesn't work against spells in the Unfooruman battle, actually.

[White Rabbit]

On all eight sides by corpses, I said. When I said that, I meant that there has to be a corpse literally N, NW, W, SW, S, SE, E, and NE of him or the place he wants to go to go there. And corpses are quite literally more impenetrable then the edge of the map- he can teleport through the edge of the map, though not into it.
Does this mean that Solstice can teleport into the gap between Shuriken and Sam once the box dies?

[Risp_old]

Yes.

[Torkell]

The proper name for the spell is disbalance, not "that sleigh spell".
What does this spell do?

[Risp_old]

It does 3 damage and temporarily halves the target's defense.

[Dev]

I say we keep fighting with Conquista and stop attacking the box. When Conquista dies, we move Sam to the right, get in a hit or two with him, and then make Solstice kill the box itself so it'll be open for attack from Shuri the next turn. Might not work, but at least we'll go down fighting. XD Like seriously, what else can we do?

EDIT: I'm just gonna do it. Sorry if we all die. D=

EDITEDIT: And we coulda done more damage with Shuri our of the box. I swear after this I'm never giving battle commands again, I have no clue what I was thinking.

[Dev]

Here's my plan.

We've never been able to make good use of Manaflare. Let's start this fight by trying to kill Shuriken really fast by moving her north one space, attacking with Araches/L33tz4n and Furious, then making her Fo'shizzle herself. Next we get Araches/L33tz4n under dead Shuri and put another dead body beside her. While we're doing this, we Poison the Succubus, and once Solstice uses Legacy, Manashackle him. He'll either use his Dispell or taken massive damage. Once his Dispell is spent, we Manaflare Araches/L33tz4n and use her to take out everything in a lightning storm of MADNESS.

This could work, if we distract Rad by giving him plenty of targets on the other side of the battlefield. We need to keep a healer alive, however, since our enemy has enough spells to kill us from a distance. If we heal Araches after Solstice uses Slay, he CAN'T beat us. We also need to kill the Succubus ASAP, so if any fighters are in good position to attack it they can go kamikaze and take it out. Rad's only good move against us would be to raise and hypnotise one of the dead bodies in our shield, but fortunately using Lightning and attacking would kill anyone he revived.

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive. And don't ever apologize for anything.

(Most of the credit for this plan goes to Risp, btw. Thank you, Risp, for making me look and sound smart.)

EDIT: We should use Antimagic on Shuri, not kill her. =b We just can't let her get hypnotised. That would be bad.

[Risp_old]

Or alternatly you could use antimagic on Shuriken. The point is to make every person surrounding Arazen immune to magic in some way or another, so Rad can't just hypnotise anybody surrounding Arazen and move them away.

[White Rabbit]

This could work, if we distract Rad by giving him plenty of targets on the other side of the battlefield. We need to keep a healer alive, however, since our enemy has enough spells to kill us from a distance. If we heal Araches after Solstice uses Slay, he CAN'T beat us. We also need to kill the Succubus ASAP, so if any fighters are in good position to attack it they can go kamikaze and take it out. Rad's only good move against us would be to raise and hypnotise one of the dead bodies in our shield, but fortunately using Lightning and attacking would kill anyone he revived.

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive. And don't ever apologize for anything.

I agree with all the things that were not quoted, I think.

But kamikaze? Nonono...I am scared of that word. What we need to do is to learn from our previous 3 battles. Radium even wrote that our rush in the 2nd battle was badly executed. Just look at what happened to Fooruman after using Ramming speed.

I still believe in a more defensive strategy because, when the battle starts, THEIR defensive position is far stronger. They got plenty of attack, spells and HP. Looking back at the 3rd battle, we can see that we messed up badly by attacking without knowing what additional spells Solstice had, and Solstice never once attacked our defensive positions. Only when we've used all available spells should we go for a full-blown attack, and even then we must cover each other, with some characters advancing, and some defending. In the last rounds of the 3rd battle, we could've dealt more damage to Solstice if only Shuriken and Sam attacked together, because Solstice can only attack one character at a time. This is the reason why we should take up more defensive positions and wait for them to come to us, because it will break their formations apart, not ours.

Remember that 'defence' never means just running away or waiting to get attacked. It is not a weak strategy when done properly. Besides, it's not as if we can't cast powerful spells either.

Mistakes in our previous battle include wastage of spells and little things like forgetting to defend, which is really just clumsiness on our part, and can be easily rectified. And now we know just how many charges of spells Solstice has (Radium even said that Solstice had just one charge of Kudzu left). Look at this: http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=323920&postcount=1233 With hindsight, we should've sacrificed Shuriken and protected Araches/Leetsan with the box/statue, and Araches/Leetsan would've been able to use their spells with near impunity.

Also:
Boggy, don't forget that Solstice has 2xKudzu as well.
Risp, I guess that Shuriken can still cast Ninja speed with Antimagic? Can Antimagic be dispelled?

[cooba]

I guess that Shuriken can still cast Ninja speed with Antimagic?Yes.Can Antimagic be dispelled?No.

[Risp_old]

I suppose you could take a totally defensive strategy. However, in past battles Rad has tended to focus his attacks on the Arazen side of the map. I suppose that would make it easier to provide a corpse to plug in the gap, but it would also probably get arazen injured. Playing a totally defensive strategy, however, has one big flaw- it gives Rad a lot of freedom of how to use spells. I suppose you could try total defense and try to force solstice to use his dispel on a lesser spell so you can manaflare Arazen. That would require a different approach, though, and Arazen might get injured by attacks by it. It's all up to you, really, because I can't play.

[Dev]

I agree with all the things that were not quoted, I think.

Rad wanted someone to quote a famous tactician in the strategy thread.

I still believe in a more defensive strategy because, when the battle starts, THEIR defensive position is far stronger. They got plenty of attack, spells and HP. Looking back at the 3rd battle, we can see that we messed up badly by attacking without knowing what additional spells Solstice had, and Solstice never once attacked our defensive positions. Only when we've used all available spells should we go for a full-blown attack, and even then we must cover each other, with some characters advancing, and some defending. In the last rounds of the 3rd battle, we could've dealt more damage to Solstice if only Shuriken and Sam attacked together, because Solstice can only attack one character at a time. This is the reason why we should take up more defensive positions and wait for them to come to us, because it will break their formations apart, not ours.

That's fine, but like Risp said, he'll have time to use his spells on us. He only has two spellcasters, so it won't be hard for him to break out all of his best moves from the start. I still say we need to make him use Dispell quickly and then Manaflare somebody. If you don't want to try my dead body barrier plan, then try Manaflaring Conquista since she has a lot of HP and that crazy Hellfishy spell.

And Risp pointed out to me that if the Succubus hypnotised Sam when he had his Unload Mana charm, he could actually use Sam's spells on us. Perhaps you ought to wait until it's used Hypnotise before you use Unload Mana.

[White Rabbit]

Radium has raised up from his coffin now that it's dark!
What do we do?! >O
We have a basic strategy, but what are our moves going to be? ;(

I auction page 5.

[Fawriel]

Well, I'd say that we should use the defensive stance of our enemies' to cast an important charm on one of our party to make them more powerful for the rest of the battle... most enemies can't attack now or wouldn't be able to after the character's moved away a bit..
Other than that, I don't know.

[White Rabbit]

Let's kill off Succubus. ;|

Araches/Leetsan: *hypno* on Succubus.
Succubus: E, NE.
Sam: N. Attack Succubus.
Bob/Faw: N, attack Succubus.
Grandma: Attack Succubus.
Fooruman: NE.
Shuriken: N, NE.
Araches/Leetsan:
S, SE, S.
Furious: S.

The question is whether we want to have Shuriken on the front or Furious on the front? I say Shuriken up front, since she has all the cool attacks that can deal nice damage to some ice hydras, and we won't have to worry about Anti Magicing her with Succubus about to get a bit killed. On the other hand, Shuriken WILL get killed instantly if Solstice uses Legacy along with two flanked ice hydra attacks.

[UNKNOWNFILE]

The main reason that we lose is the christmas tree... it always kills the party. I think we should focus on that first.

[Risp_old]

Look. If you kill Perfect Solstice first, the Snow Succubus will end up being the one that's beating the crap out of you. Killing either one first has an advantage and a disadvantage, you just haven't seen the disadvantage to killing Solstice first because you never have.

[White Rabbit]

Our problem is that Succubus has 2 charges of Heal (that's 20HP restored) and Solstice has Legacy, which gives him double defence, and restores all his HP, so theoretically, we would have to wade through 136 damage in order to kill Solstice. Killing Succubus early would remove all her spells, including heal, resurrect and hypno, which could instantly kill either Sam or Araches/Leetsan by moving them close to the hydras, and those are our two most important spell casters.

Killing Succubus would not only mean instantly reducing 20HP worth of healing, it means we can also move our units more safely. Any damage done to Solstice will be wasted once he uses Legacy, so that is why we saved him till last in the 3rd battle.

I think we could provoke Solstice to use Legacy by attacking him with either physically, or with a spell, so we can hurry up and use Randomtackle Manashackle on him.

[UNKNOWNFILE]

Look. If you kill Perfect Solstice first, the Snow Succubus will end up being the one that's beating the crap out of you. Killing either one first has an advantage and a disadvantage, you just haven't seen the disadvantage to killing Solstice first because you never have.

Give a n00b a chance

[Blackraptor]

Imo, I see the succubus as more of a threat in the beginning. The Solstice IS better, but I agree that attacking it in the start would be a waste of time. Taking out the succubus before it uses its spells to screw someone over would be more beneficial.

Edit: Oh yeah, and what about casting Manaflare on Gradma Conquista? ;O. Unlimited 15 damage hellfishy spell..

[UNKNOWNFILE]

That wouldnt be a good idea, as the solstice is still there and it can remove enchantments.

I suggest that Shuriken attacks the hydra nearest her.

[Blackraptor]

That wouldnt be a good idea, as the solstice is still there and it can remove enchantments.

I suggest that Shuriken attacks the hydra nearest her.

Succubus has raise ;D, which revives one of its fallen comrades. Hypnotize also can mess you up on a turn where you think you've got a good strategy planned out. The Solstice IS still there, but I think taking the succubus out first would be better (although saving at least some efficient spells to use vs the solstice).

[aokmaniac13]

So much for Manaflaring Grandma

Edit: As long as Solstice has already used the despell, how about using Poison on it?

[Blackraptor]

I'm planning to hopefully trap araches up in the corner (She'll die first - I'll just use Raise) by killing off that one hydra. Then she could use poison/cast her summons while being unharmed (of course, once she runs out of stuff to do, if she's the last survivor, we lose anyways)

[White Rabbit]

Blacky you foo. :( You haven't read any of the rest of our posts! AJKHKHKS. Really, what's so wrong with NOT doing EVERYTHING by yourself!? There's no rush...it's all turn-based. Consult other people! Wait for tomorrow, if you must... I go to sleep and suddenly we're on our 5th try?!

[Fawriel]

Well, looks like Blacky went on a Napoleonic joyride.
Oh well. At least it's not our dignity that's stained. ;D

[White Rabbit]

At least Napoleon WON battles (just not the truly decisive ones). :p

..can we go with my moves now? I am already slightly afraid of the Frost Lawyers, so killing Succubus off early is definitely helpful.

That wouldnt be a good idea, as the solstice is still there and it can remove enchantments.

I suggest that Shuriken attacks the hydra nearest her.
We've already covered this. No Manaflare till Solstice has used Legacy AND Dispel. Once Legacy has been used, we can Randomtackle Manashackle Solstice, and force Radium to decide whether to dispel or take damage from using all the other spells (Kudzu, Disbalance, Slay...er, that's about it, but oh well :p).

[Fawriel]

Well, yeah, I suppose your moves are fine. As the Snow Succubus has been discovered to be the source of snow lawyers instead of Solstice, destroying her becomes even more of an urgent objective.. so yeah.

[White Rabbit]

Btw, can we use Unload Manna, Raise Succubus and make her summon a Frost Lawyer? Will the Frost Lawyer be under our control?

[UNKNOWNFILE]

I think a good strategy, if possible, is to hypnotize Perfect Solstice then making it cast Legacy on Fooruman.

[cooba]

<br><TABLE><TR><TD background="http://www.foxmage.com/u/Snow.gif">http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/4_3.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/arazen0.gif" alt="Araches/L33tz4n HP:20/20 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=43>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/7_1.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/conquista0.gif" alt="Grandma Conquista HP:24/24 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=52>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gif
http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/8_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/furious0.gif" alt="Furious the Monkeyboy HP:22/22 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=47>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/6_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/icehydra1.gif" alt="Ice Hydra with one more HP than the rest HP:21/21 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=45>http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/6_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/icehydra1.gif" alt="ICE HYDRA HP:20/20 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=43>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/3_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/sam0.gif" alt="Scholar Sam HP:15/15 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=32>
http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/7_1.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/solstice1.gif" alt="Perfect Solstice HP:39/39 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=84>http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/4_3.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/succubus1.gif" alt="the Snow Succubus HP:38/38 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=82>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gif
http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/statue.gif">http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/6_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/icehydra1.gif" alt="Ice Hydra HP:20/20 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=43>http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/6_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/icehydra1.gif" alt="Jim HP:20/20 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=43>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/6_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/fawbob0.gif" alt="Faw/Uberbob HP:24/24 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=52>
http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/5_4.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/shuri0.gif" alt="Shuriken HP:17/17 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=37>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gifhttp://www.foxmage.com/u/d/5_2.gif<img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/foocanoe0.gif" alt="Fooruman/Canoe HP:20/20 Charm: Curse: "><img src="http://www.foxmage.com/u/d/HP20.gif" width=5 height=43>http://www.foxmage.com/u/Blankspace.gif
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Analyze this. If we wanted to surround Araches and whatthenot with magic immune objects/people, we should move her to where Shuri is now. However Shuri herself should go East, and cast Haste on Arazan. Then Arazen would move to the lower left corner, and Furious should follow her.I think a good strategy, if possible, is to hypnotize Perfect Solstice then making it cast Legacy on Fooruman.
One spell per turn rule still applies.

[White Rabbit]

No, it's too dangerous, and it still gives Radium a choice of whether to kill Sam or kill Araches/Leetsan with Succubus' *hypno*. My moves already blocks off 3/5 of the squares we must protect (and if we choose to cast Manifest Density next turn, we can block of 3/3 squares). Your moves will leave Shuriken in a very vulnerable position. We can't let anybody die without having used their spells to the maximum. The moves are also too passive and we deal no damage to the enemy, or disable them (*hypno* on Succubus will do both).

[cooba]

My moves already block off 3/5 of the squares we must protect...WHAT moves? ;|

What about we move Shuri north, then?

Shuri: N, NE, haste on Arazen.
Arazen: S, SW, S, S.
Furious: S, S.
Shuri: W.

[White Rabbit]

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=325361&postcount=163 <-- here are my moes (they're all on the same page).
And no, no spells for Shuriken AT all! Radium can cause 24 damage to her that way, and we could really need Foshzzle and Ninja speed some time in the future. We shouldn't have to use Raise on Shuriken.

[cooba]

Radium can cause 24 damage to her that way...14 at the most and only if he put Legacy on himself.

[White Rabbit]

No, 24, because Shuri will move N, NE and be within range of two hydras. One ice hydra does 6 damage, casting a spell (Haste) halves your defence, so that's 2x12, which is 24. Solstice won't even have to lift a finger.

[cooba]

because Shuri will move N, NEAnd will go W after Arazen and Furious are done moving.

[White Rabbit]

:| I didn't see that, but I still disagree with using Haste instead of *hypno* because Haste only works the NEXT round, and I still so badly want to kill off Succubus early on. >O

[Risp_old]

Btw, can we use Unload Manna, Raise Succubus and make her summon a Frost Lawyer? Will the Frost Lawyer be under our control?
Unload mana works by allowing you to cast spells even after they have already been cast this turn, not by making your spells not count to the turn total. Thus, you can't use unload mana+raise dead to use other people's spells. Sorry.

[White Rabbit]

Does that mean Sam can only cast spells AFTER someone else has cast, and if he does it first, no one else can? :|

[Blackraptor]

WR, try amount doesnt really matter. I had one free evening to do things and I was bored ;|. And Radium was willing. I didn't think I'd win anyways, I just felt like doing a jab at it myself. I think the Succubus is more annoying then the Solstice, after that battle =|.

Besides, now you know what Frost Lawyers are. Be happy and gaze in awe at what happens when you attack solstice first instead of the succubus.

Oh yeah, and Fysics Phailure is a fun spell. Cast it if you can D;

[Risp_old]

Does that mean Sam can only cast spells AFTER someone else has cast, and if he does it first, no one else can? :|
Got it exactly right. I remember mentioning to Rad to mention that in that one official post. It looks like he didn't.

[Blackraptor]

..If nobody has noticed, Shuri's Foshizzle doesn't work! (I think.)

It does. And It took off about 13 HP off the Solstice too which was nice.

[Ae]

It does. And It took off about 13 HP off the Solstice too which was nice.

Oh, I saw, it just doesn't say (# damage)
I was thinking the snowball part meant she got the dance wrong because she thought it looked stupid and didn't want to do it D;

[Risp_old]

That would be just unfair.

[aokmaniac13]

I've been looking at the board, I believe the main reason you guys have been losing is because the characters are spread out. You can take advantage of the fact that Solstice doesn't have teleportation until after using legacy by moving everyone into more defendable formations. Here's what I propose for the first turn:

Furious : Move E
Araches/L33tzan : W, Mythslayer at row 3, column 1
Shuriken : N, NE, N, N
Sam : Move N
Faw/Uberbob : N,N
Grandma : Defend
Fooruman/Canoe : N, NW

This way, we have the spellcasters (Araches/L33tzan and Sam) in the corners, surrounded by three warriors each. On the next turn (hopefully after soltice uses legacy), Araches can use poison on solstice, and with any luck Solstice will use dispell on that. After solstice's dispell is used we can manashackle the succubus and manaflare grandma (Following Blackraptor's idea) Furious and grandma should definately be kept alive, because they are the brawns of the team needed to kill stuff really fast.

[Blackraptor]

One thing about the succubus. Please kill it before the Solstice as it can not only heal (twice, I think, both times +10 HP. If you plan to kill solstice first the succubus will no doubt keep healing it), Hypnotize (I dont need to explain why this would be bad), Raise (Although I've only seen it use this on Jim...) and Summon Lawyer. Keep note of the fact that lawyers can summon other lawyers (last match I was up against 3 lawyers on the field), and the lawyers somehow manage to do 10 damage via spell (I had my fooruman surrounded on all sides by corpses and ready to kick some (-), but somehow the lawyer managed to one hit kill him with whatever spell).

[Risp_old]

The Snow Succubus can summon a frost lawyer. That frost lawyer can summon another. That frost lawyer can summon another. That frost lawyer, rather then summoning more, has a spell which steals 10 HP from the target. No, it is not an infinate loop of lawyers.

[Blackraptor]

Thanks for clearing that up ;O.

[Torkell]

Thanks Risp. Post updated (remember, it's over here (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=323043&postcount=71)).

[White Rabbit]

I've been looking at the board, I believe the main reason you guys have been losing is because the characters are spread out. You can take advantage of the fact that Solstice doesn't have teleportation until after using legacy by moving everyone into more defendable formations. Here's what I propose for the first turn:

Furious : Move E
Araches/L33tzan : W, Mythslayer at row 3, column 1
Shuriken : N, NE, N, N
Sam : Move N
Faw/Uberbob : N,N
Grandma : Defend
Fooruman/Canoe : N, NW

This way, we have the spellcasters (Araches/L33tzan and Sam) in the corners, surrounded by three warriors each. On the next turn (hopefully after soltice uses legacy), Araches can use poison on solstice, and with any luck Solstice will use dispell on that. After solstice's dispell is used we can manashackle the succubus and manaflare grandma (Following Blackraptor's idea) Furious and grandma should definately be kept alive, because they are the brawns of the team needed to kill stuff really fast.
We've already gone through the fact that Succubus can use *hypno* to move people away from their protective box (e.g. Shuriken or the Mythslayer). Also, you cannot have Furious and Shuriken on the same space, and the Mythslayer is two tiles away from Araches/Leetsan, and there's a big gap under Araches/Leetsan, and we lose the initiative, and the defensive position is still weak because we are relying on a weak summon, which doesn't leave a corpse, and it's just a great opportunity missed because we can kill Succubus without her casting a single spell.

The defensive formation of Grandma, Sam, Bob/Faw and Fooruman will be automatically used when Succubus is *hypno*tised into going 3xE, and we can cause damage to her at the same time, as well as preventing Radium from using his main spell caster, and it will leave us free from enemy *hypno* for..well, hopefully for the rest of the game.

Using an invulnerable statue, a 1-tile chokepoint and a 40HP box is much better than staying in the upper corner with a summon in front of you.

[aokmaniac13]

Oops, I forgot to explain my reason for that.

If an ice hydra moves in to fill the gap, Furious and Shuriken can obliterate it within a turn, thus having filled the space with a corpse. Otherwise Sam can just put a box there. Solstice cannot move near the corner yet because without legacy its movement points are still one. The purpose of having the mythslayer is to have slay ready from the start to use on the succubus (or solstice if the succubus can be killed fast enough). I find it incredibly difficult to move Araches/L33tzan to safety elsewhere due to lack of movement points.

Also, you cannot have Furious and Shuriken on the same space

My bad, just make Araches/L33tzan move first, then Shuri, then Furious

[White Rabbit]

If an ice hydra moves in to fill the gap, Furious and Shuriken can obliterate it within a turn, thus having filled the space with a corpse. Otherwise Sam can just put a box there. Solstice cannot move near the corner yet because without legacy its movement points are still one. The purpose of having the mythslayer is to have slay ready from the start to use on the succubus (or solstice if the succubus can be killed fast enough). I find it incredibly difficult to move Araches/L33tzan to safety elsewhere due to lack of movement points.


Slay on Succubus? She still has 2xHeal. There are just so many things Radium can do with your moves. Why leave things to chance? Your moves could potentionally be successful, but it takes too long (about 3 turns to properly move into position, use *hypno*, kill Succubus, etc) and is therefore too risky. With my moves, we can kill Succubus and completely protect Araches/Leetsan in just 2 turns, and we can then summon the Mythslayer later on, against Solstice, where it can attack as well as cast Slay. And your moves do not find an answer against the usage of *hypno* against our characters.

[aokmaniac13]

Then what is your movement proposal?

[White Rabbit]

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=325361&postcount=163 I've already posted it on page 5. :( You're the second person to have missed it.

[aokmaniac13]

:p

Can we force the Succubus to cast a spell? If so then we could do that and make it take double damage. I would have been all for your plan had I seen it earlier >_<

[cooba]

Can we force the Succubus to cast a spell?No.

[Risp_old]

Well, people, it'd be really easy to get that defensive position you wanted around Arazen from here.

[Risp_old]

Not a smart move there. Once the manifest density goes away you have no way to protect Arazen, and with the place you put it in two ice hydras can hit it at once. When I said you could easily get that position I meant that you could use animate dead to use shuri's corpse as a barrier.

[White Rabbit]

Ah? You learn something new every day.
I didn't think of such a usage of a..corpse. :p

Modifications at the end:
Bob/Faw: N. Attack Succubus.
Fooruman: N. Attack Succubus.
Grandma: Attack Succubus.
Sam: Unload mana. Animate dead on Shuriken. Seppuku Succubus. Defend.
Araches/Leetsan: S.
Shuriken: SW, SE. Attack Ice Hydra.
Furious: S.

[Risp_old]

You better make Arazen/L33tz4n's move S attack Shuri rather then just S. Technically the person animated by animate dead doesn't die till your next turn, so if Rad was really mean he could just hypnotise Shuri and move her away.

[White Rabbit]

But...won't Succubus die of Grandma, Bob/Faw, Fooruman and Sam's attacks? :|

I've calculated it: 7+6+5+seppuku(4)=22.

[cooba]

You better make Arazen/L33tz4n's move S attack Shuri rather then just S. Technically the person animated by animate dead doesn't die till your next turn, so if Rad was really mean he could just hypnotise Shuri and move her away.Like this?

Araches/Leetsan: S.
Shuriken: SW, SE. Attack Ice Hydra.
Furious: S.
Araches/Leetzan: Attack Shuri.

[White Rabbit]

We could attack Shuriken, I guess. It doesn't make any difference in terms of defence and we still cause damage to Ice Hydra.

But Succubus WILL die by the time it is Radium's turn.
Right? :(

[Risp_old]

But...won't Succubus die of Grandma, Bob/Faw, Fooruman and Sam's attacks? :|

I've calculated it: 7+6+5+seppuku(4)=22.
Oh, okay. I was too lazy to check that. It doesn't matter either way if you use Arazen to attack Shuri, then.

And yes, you are right.

[aokmaniac13]

What if you used bloodlust on one of them instead of using up Seppuku?

[cooba]

What if you used bloodlust on one of them instead of using up Seppuku?One spell per turn rule D=.

[aokmaniac13]

Oh yeah, animating shuriken... right...

[cooba]

Oh yeah, animating shuriken... right...Unload Mana, rather.

[White Rabbit]

Right...Radium has just lost his main target (Araches/Leetsan), so we can expect Furious to be attacked and Grandma to die (Disbalance will most definitely be used on her).

[cooba]

Also, any ideas how can we make Solstice use Dispell?

[White Rabbit]

Yes, we already have a plan. Randomtackle Manashackle him.
There are no other curses worth dispelling. Poison? Heh. :p I know that in our last game, we would've won if we had casted Poison when he had a chance, but still...we can cast Poison later. Araches/Leetsan are going nowhere.

[Risp_old]

RTMS will be MUCH more powerful now that Rad has only one spellcaster left. And no healer.

[cooba]

So... RTMS Solstice and have everyone defend?

[Risp_old]

I'd also reccomend using Manifest Density to the side of Fooruman. He's a bit exposed.

[aokmaniac13]

Which spells does Solstice have again? AFAIK all he has left is Dispell and 2x Kudzu. If I'm right then we may have already won.

[Risp_old]

And 2x disbalance. Never forget disbalance.

[aokmaniac13]

What does that do?

[Risp_old]

It does 3 damage and temporarily halves the target's defense.
Indeed.

[Blackraptor]

If it helps remind you, its the sled where the sleigh comes and knocks you off balance.

You know, I dont think Radium will have Solstice cast dispell on itself to get rid of a simple manashackle ;P. Not like Solstice really needs spells to kick our (-) anyways.

[aokmaniac13]

Ok, so solstice can at most deal 6 damage without actually attacking, which is not enough to kill either Sam or Araches. This means that we can just cast poison on Solstice and sit around until he dies or dispells it (or see if he dispells manashackle), since Araches and Sam are surrounded on all sides by (soon to be) corpses and edges of the map. After solstice is dead (or uses the dispell), sam can manaflare Araches and then Lightning every round for the win.

[Risp_old]

Yeah. It's slow, but it doesn't matter how many people are killed that way. Just don't have anyone budge for the 40 turns it would take to kill Solstice by poison, or perhaps speed the process a bit by using up excess spells (summons, that sort of thing). As long as it ends up with Arazen manaflared, solstice dead or at least out of dispel, and Arazen with at least one attack spell, there is no way I can see right now that Rad could win.

[aokmaniac13]

Exactly. Time to set the plan in motion!

[Blackraptor]

Casting randommanashackle was a waste of time though, seeing as poison will overwrite it.

[White Rabbit]

If it helps remind you, its the sled where the sleigh comes and knocks you off balance.

You know, I dont think Radium will have Solstice cast dispell on itself to get rid of a simple manashackle ;P. Not like Solstice really needs spells to kick our (-) anyways.
But Radium won last time because of the spells. They enable Solstice to do crazy attack moves! We can cause 16 damage just by letting Solstice use spells, and then a further 10 from Araches/Shuriken's lightning, and maybe even revive Grandma and let her use Hellfishy for another 15 damage. ;p

My moves:
Bob/Faw: Defend.
Fooruman: Defend.
Sam: Defend.
Furious: Defend.
Araches/Leetsan: Summon Mythslayer at pos 3, 3.
Mythslayer: Defend.

I've already talked it through with Cooba, and hopefully it will work...er...somehow. :p

[cooba]

So... what should we do this turn, keep Fooruman on being alive or attack Solstice with the Mythslayer? If we wanted to heal Fooruman and stuff we should have everyone defend with Fawbob healing Fooruman, btw.

[Risp_old]

Wait, what? Your plan with the poison would have worked fine. I talked to Radium, actually, and he said he couldn't think of any possible way he could beat you with you just poisoning, waiting, then manaflaring Arazen and finishing off everyone with lightning.

[White Rabbit]

What about this?
Bob/Faw: Raise on Grandma.
Fooruman: Attack Ice Hydra.
Everyone else: Defend.

Now, Radium can only kill 1 character out of Fooruman, Grandma and Mythslayer, so either way we can keep some of our spells.

[aokmaniac13]

It really doesn't matter what any of the other characters do, just don't move them.

[White Rabbit]

Actually, I don't think raising Grandma would be a great idea.
Healing Fooruman would spell death for Mythslayer, and raising Grandma would mean that she gets killed, Fooruman receives damage, and we're back to the same position again, only this time Fooruman has even less health. >O

[Risp_old]

Are you convinced you need to score some perfect victory that lands you not only victory but also leaves you with your entire team alive? Because, to me, the smartest move from here would be slay solstice, then posion him, then just wait it out till he dies or dispels.

[White Rabbit]

Resurrecting Grandma would still cause more damage, because she can attack ICE HYDRA, Fooruman can attack Ice Hydra, and everyone else defend.

Since Radium cannot afford to let Grandma live, she will be killed, leaving Mythslayer to cast Slay, then attack either Jim or 21HP Ice Hydra. Finally, Araches/Leetsan will be free to cast Poison.

We could even take a risk and attack Solstice with Mythslayer right now, because the hydras and Solstice will be busy killing Grandma and Fooruman.

[Risp_old]

...I'll just leave you alone here to talk to yourself for a while.

[Blackraptor]

Just poison Solstice already..Faw/Uber will die pretty soon too so if anyone wants to make them do anything special now would be the time.

[Fawriel]

*patpats Risp*

[White Rabbit]

Radium read my commands wrongly. Why didn't anyone else spot that? :(
I have posted new and modified commands in my latest post (it will not allow both Grandma and Fooruman to die, and definitely force Solstice to use Kudzu/Disbalance, causing 4 damage, so there's more of a point to casting Raise).

[Blackraptor]

Radium read my commands wrongly. Why didn't anyone else spot that? :(
I have posted new and modified commands in my latest post (it will not allow both Grandma and Fooruman to die, and definitely force Solstice to use Kudzu/Disbalance, causing 4 damage, so there's more of a point to casting Raise).


We still won anyways WR, who cares ;P. Just poison Solstice, wait for it to die/dispell itself, cast manaflare on araches and slowly lightning everyone to death.

[White Rabbit]

No, we haven't won, and I don't understand why you wouldn't care that commands are read wrongly. Hopefully, Radium will just use my new commands, or my old commands correctly, and we can get on.

And not caring about things like that must've been how you lost your game. :p

[cooba]

Give me one reason on why do you focus on killing off Ice Hydras, WR.

[White Rabbit]

One reason: It's fun.

Many reasons: Solstice cannot be directly attacked by anyone except Mythslayer, and if he does move, he'll get killed by Jim or 21HP Ice Hydra, because we won't really move Mythslayer until after he has used Slay.

Preserving either Grandma or Fooruman would allow Hellfishy/Foshzzle to be cast on Solstice (or another Ice Hydra). Our aim is to win by killing everybody, isn't it? So why not Ice Hydras because they have the lowest HP, and don't you just love the sense of fulfilment when you know you have wasted as little spells as possible before the end of the game? :|

[Fawriel]

I think we have died often enough to aim for just winning the battle. ;/

[Risp_old]

Look. Using posion then manaflare then infinate casts of lightning will use up less spells than raising conquista then using hellfishy then using slay then using poison then probably burning a lot of summons to hurt people then using manaflare then using infinate lightnings.