LMAT 2011

[Obi1mcd]

Well, since there weren't any objections in the last LMAT thread, I'm going ahead with this one.
The last LMAT has pretty much died out, due to issues over the theme, mismatched graphics, and general confusion at the beginning over what tiles were being used. For this one, I'm going to try and keep things slightly more coherent.

RULES
<ul><li>Please keep your additions unique, and don't post tiles from other sets, LMAT or otherwise, if you can help it. Obvious exceptions for things like destruct scenery symbols.<li>Try not to use too many colours in your tiles, so as to make it easier later to convert the set into an 8-bit image. <li> If you don't like some of the tiles, try to fix them rather than removing them, or ask somebody else to try.<li>Likewise, don't overwrite others' tiles just because you think yours are better.<li>Be polite. We don't need a flamewar. <li>Use common sense when adding tiles. If it wouldn't be allowed on j2o, don't add it. <li>If you post criticism, make sure it's constructive criticism. General complaining won't help anyone.</ul>

As to the art style, it would be a lot better long-term to go with an 8-bit art style as opposed to 16-bit Photoshop stuff. It makes it easier for others to join in. I'd suggest an art style similar to Aftermath, as it worked quite well.

Also, before any drawing begins, there needs to be some sort of decision about the theme. The last one had an Elemental Space Temple theme, but I think it was less practical than it sounded, as the 'space' part of it only really consisted of a black background with stars. Should we:
A. Stick with the current theme?
B. Choose a different theme?
C. Go without a theme like most of the previous LMATs?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Jgke]

A or B, perhaps a ruined temple? I'd love to get a tileset with jungle + ruins in it.

[cooba]

Just draw a semi-generic tile or two and let people figure out the rest.

[Seren]

C (and what cooba said).

[Obi1mcd]

Okay, C it is, since the theme can always be modified later.

<img src="http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1521/lmatstarter.png">

[Jgke]

Anti-gradient + color change.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/revenge.png

[Violet CLM]

Obvious extensions so that no one else has to do them, in case such things are wanted.
<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/2011extensions.png" />

[Jgke]

Ehm, could you stop using gradients? ;P

[cooba]

Some poorly made moss tiles:

<img src="http://chaos.foxmage.com/cooba/poormoss.png" />

And try this on the size:

<img src="http://chaos.foxmage.com/cooba/alter.png" />

[Obi1mcd]

Slopes.
<img src="http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7650/lmat005.png">

[Ktos.]

Changed how pipes looks.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2511/kurwacomnietusprowadza.png

I think that it looks better now.

[Seren]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1246/lmat201.png
*Pretending promised activity by rearranging tiles and adding some obvious, effortless edits.*

[Obi1mcd]

Just quickly fixing Ktos' pipe fix. Nothing really visible, but I thought I'd better keep on top of the number of colours.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5851/lmat008.png
May add some grass or something later.

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/2011extensions2.png" />
Some foregroundy stuff I guess? just playing with more extensions of the original tile until something radically new happens.

[n0]

OMB something radically new happens!
http://chaos.foxmage.com/n0/lmatn011.png
Uh, so in case my art is completely horrible and you can't tell what's happening, I added some signs, a well for water to go in, and some placeholder ideas (please edit these, I suck!) of a puddle to go in front of the well (it actually looks somewhat decent when transparent), a waterfall coming from a small hole in the ceiling, a water drop coming from the same hole in the ceiling, and a vine coming from a hole in the ceiling.

Oh and I also added a non-standard orientation. I think it'd be awesome if we made this one so that "horizontal" and "vertical" aren't "up" and "down"... if you understand what I'm trying to say. I mean, it's a ruined temple, why should it still be upright? Why do waterfalls have to go straight down?

...I have a kink in my neck now.

[Violet CLM]

I mean, it's a ruined temple, why should it still be upright?
Is it?

(I will say, as someone who has made a tileset with a substantial portion drawn at a 45 degree angle: such things are possible, but it's worth keeping in mind that all the corners and stuff make everything take up more tiles than it would otherwise.)

[Obi1mcd]

And at the very least, I think we'll need upright versions of the text signs and arrows too. But we can go with this for now.

EDIT:
Here, have a statue.
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3679/lmat011.png

EDIT2:
Credit to n00b for original statue, just to keep track of things.

[Sean]

Here, have a vine.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat011.png

If anyone can wear it out or something, be my guest.

[Obi1mcd]

Modified shading on vine, and added a hook.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4181/lmat013.png
Note: I used some colours from cooba's moss, but I was wondering if it would be worth switching the moss to the same colour scheme as the vines/pipes/diamondy things and adding a few more shades to the other.

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5279/lmat202.png</td><td valign="top">Feel free to say it doesn't fit. The drops are meant for a useless destruct scenery animation of the leaf and should look quite nice.</td></tr></table>

[Sean]

Note: I used some colours from cooba's moss, but I was wondering if it would be worth switching the moss to the same colour scheme as the vines/pipes/diamondy things and adding a few more shades to the other.

It's definitely worth reducing the number of colors while we're making the tileset, as it'll reduce issues with color reduction later on in the creation.

[Sean]

Added a background thingie! Someone mind elaborating on the concept? I'm too lazy :p

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat014.png

Yeah, I stole it from n0, so sue me.

[Quintocle]

Added diagonal signs for left slope, a few more vine tiles, rearranged a bit.
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5347/lmatn016.png

[Sean]

Quint you are a GENIUS.

[Obi1mcd]

Might just add here that I'll be a little while before I add any tiles, mostly since I just got a tablet, and am trying to get used to it.

[Obi1mcd]

Double post, but whatever. I made a basic fire animation, and some kind of pyre/pillar thing that might need reshading.
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4879/lmat017.png

Also, I might point out that it would be handy if we could get more than just the usual event scenery and essentials. Be creative, people!

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4271/lmat203.png</td><td valign="top">These animated tiles of not too good quality are meant for layer 3 and 4 (the last column). In a painful process they make rabbits small enough to let them travel the thin green pipes when those are filled with sucker tubes. Didn't spend too much time on them so feel free to oppose.</td></tr></table>

[Violet CLM]

In a painful process they make rabbits small enough to let them travel the thin green pipes when those are filled with sucker tubes
hahaha oh god this is the best thing


Anyway, this set needs direction! Right now everyone's trying their best to figure out what could possibly be done to expand a single octagon texture. But what does the octagon represent? Is it a stone in a temple? Is it abstract as part of an abstract tileset? Somebody needs to make a decision here, however unilaterally, or else there's not more that can be done with no more than the idea "octagons!"

[Sean]

hahaha oh god this is the best thing


Anyway, this set needs direction! Right now everyone's trying their best to figure out what could possibly be done to expand a single octagon texture. But what does the octagon represent? Is it a stone in a temple? Is it abstract as part of an abstract tileset? Somebody needs to make a decision here, however unilaterally, or else there's not more that can be done with no more than the idea "octagons!"

You read my mind, Violet. I say this octagon is part of a chunk of rock floating. IN SPACE. Thoughts?

[Obi1mcd]

Nah, not space. Agreed about the octagons, though. My impression would be some kind of jungle temple, although that's been done before. The octagons would make sense as the building blocks of the ruins, so how about we start with that as a base theme, and add from there?

[DoubleGJ]

"octagons!"
that's a great title for the tileset!!

[Ktos.]

Actually I have though about space too. I dont like idea about jungle theme - overused imo. Maybe some strange, floating in space ruins of Devan's temple with plants etc. on it?

(that reminds me Facing Worlds from UT somehow)

[Violet CLM]

floating in space
Devan's temple
with plants

The last one had an Elemental Space Temple theme, but I think it was less practical than it sounded

Progress, everybody!

[KRSplat]

So many tilesets are of areas in ruins, does anything stay intact these days?

[Sean]

Jungle Temple in space it is, people!

[Obi1mcd]

Wait, what? I still don't know about that. I mean, if everybody really wants to, we can, but I still think that was partially the reason the last one slowed down. Besides which, if you make it in space, the only difference that really makes is the background. The majority of the layer 4 tiles will be the same.
Perhaps we'll go with Jungle Temple for now, and add space if we really want to when the time comes for backgrounds.

[Ktos.]

Hm if you dont like that idea... Maybe some kind of octagonic turtles city?

[Sean]

Oh come on. The Jungle Temple in space idea is pretty original, if you ask me. Sure, we have space temples lying around. But this one will be overgrown.

And plus, we don't need to add spacey foreground elements except for maybe an asteroid or two occasionally floating by. And then we can use some very lightly done textured background!

(no negreps plz kthxbai)

[Violet CLM]

Unless you're seriously prepared to beat Nature's Ruins, I don't see the point in making an overgrown temple with no more than minimal space-related elements.

[Sean]

*looks up Nature's Ruins*

[KRSplat]

It doesn't really like like a jungle temple in space anyway.

It looks like a lifeless planet whose atmosphere is being prepared for colonization by Devan Shell's space exploration science nerd minions. Hence the single plant, the Devan Shell statue, the ground-color surface rocks(?), rock-colored background tiles, the well, the waterfall and water drops from the ceiling hole, and the small fire. The vine and lichen seem engineered since the vine is helical and the lichen is a neony green. Also there are no buildings.

Or, I guess the tiles I interpreted as rocks were stones of construction. Just an idea, I don't think I could attempt to draw.

[Sean]

We could add elements where we need it.

Seriously though, the octagons would suggest something rabbit-made, and I'm not sure what else I can think of other than a temple.

IN SPACE. (God I'm pushing this)

[KRSplat]

Yes, the octagons defy my interpretation completely.

[Sean]

You know, with the original color scheme Obi put up (blue and green) I could see it as a sci-fi sort of garishly colored spaceship. Now, as you said, they defy interpretation completely.

[Violet CLM]

Could the octagons perhaps not be the entire wall structure? I know that would involve losing some of the work done already, but I think I'm not the only one who isn't really feeling this tileset at the moment. They could be <a href="http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/4391/fulltileit2.jpg">enclosed in something else</a>, or <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/downloads/4975/screenshots/2/">disconnected from the actual floor</a>, or just only a wall texture while <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/tilesets/tutorial/perspective4.gif">a dedicated platform rests on top of them with some perspective</a>. For example, dropping the "elemental temple" but keeping the "ruin" and "space" ideas, it would be kind of cool to stick a street platform on top of those octagons and make it a series of asteroid-like bits of blasted apart cityscape floating through space. One way or another, though, I think the walls need to be a little more than just this single texture.

(in case the Nature's Ruins discussion continues for whatever reason, I didn't mean to say that it's unbeatable -- it has problems, and it can be surpassed -- but this particular tileset is not currently on track to be the one to surpass it.)

[Obi1mcd]

Yes, quite good points. We can do it in space, since everybody does seem to want to, as long as we make sure it does actually have a lot of spacey bits in it, rather than just a couple of asteroids. Perhaps we could have some dirt to accommodate some jungle aspects like trees and grass? We'd get a little more variety that way.

[Sean]

The floor idea is great. It's great. I vote for the floor idea. With the added note of "ruined city in space".

So much space. Need to see it all.

SPAAAAAAACE!

[Obi1mcd]

We get it, you've played Portal 2. Concentrate on LMAT now?

[Sean]

Not when I'm away from my graphics program.

[Seren]

We can do it in space, since everybody does seem to want to
However Sean made a lot of posts about it indeed, I don't think you should call him "everybody".

[Obi1mcd]

Well, we know it's either Jungle Temple or Jungle Temple in Space, so we can add tiles that fit either, really. By the way, if we were to add some dirt tiles, should they be geometric, or more natural looking?

[Sean]

Geometric, I think would be better.

[Ktos.]

I've been thinking about the idea of putting this into space and well, I'm not sure if I like that idea. I mean, big, floating in space octagonic jungle temple with Devans statue on it, sounds quite stupid. If we are going to put this into space why shouldn't we also add a big floating jelly in the background? Whatever, we can make it look more nonsense.

I think that is a good idea to add some kind of another texture, soil maybe. maybe just regular dirt with some kind of destroyed something(street for example) elements, or just grass. We can also make just a jungle set with temple elements, but I think that I mostly like idea of making a ruined octagonic city.

[Obi1mcd]

Hey, that's a pretty good idea. I mean there have been ruined temples and such, but how about something in the style of an old, ruined Roman city? I visited a place in the Middle East on a holiday a few years ago, and the ruins there were quite interesting. Not just temples and such, but streets and houses. Anyone else think this would be a good idea for a set? After all, it would still fit with what we've got.

EDIT: Oh, and it would match Devan's toga, too.

[Ktos.]

Well indeed. I think that making ancient, octagonic city that is covered with plants and such is quite nice idea. Of course we will have to add waterfalls, maybe some levers and things like that... Columns maybe.

[Sean]

Ruined octagonic city it is! Now, where's that old picture of ruins in Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood I gave Obi... I personally think it's a good picture to keep in mind (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/4/48/Romulus_lair_the_sixth_day_by_murcuseo-d3d76i9.jpg).

[Obi1mcd]

Also, do you guys think we should have a nature section? Grass and trees etc.

[Sean]

Double post tiem. What are people's thoughts on only putting the bare bones for nature? I think it would fit in with a ruin theme, like it only just got ruined. Nature is just starting to reclaim the land. A patch of grass here, a barely leafy plant there, the occasional vine made of... well, vine.

[Violet CLM]

Everyone needs to be sure to emphasize the <em>city</em> aspect of this idea, because otherwise you end up with generic castle/temple plus grass and vines and stuff, a simplistic theme that long before Nature's Ruins, JJ1 managed to do <em>five times</em> (Marbelara, Sluggion, Pezrock, Exoticus, and Stonar).

Another way to differentiate this from such sets: set the ruined city somewhere else. Instead of straight up grass and vines that everybody's seen many times before, why couldn't it get overtaken by ice or uranium? Sand's been done with Turtemple and Deserto and Temple and stuff, but there are other possibilities. Or it could be on an entirely alien world and have the encroaching nature look more like something out of sets like Slimy Land or Future.

[Ktos.]

I like the idea of ruins of a city covered with ice and snow.

[Jgke]

<s>blizzard</s>
How about two versions, one summer and one winter?

[Ktos.]

Actually, Blizzard is looking more like a village in mountains than octagonic ruins of city.
Of course swapping this set to some kind of winter theme will force deleting few of the tiles now, so yeah, we can use everything what we have got for now for summer theme, but im not sure if we will make a snow version of it then.

[Obi1mcd]

How about a Snow version and a Sand version? If done right, sand dunes could look like snowy hills, and we could have modified art between versions to replace snowmen or something with cacti. Just throwing concepts about.

[Sean]

Some throws indeed. I'd definitely like the nuclear winter idea that Violet put forward. Also, I'm declaring a vote so that we can continue with artwork instead of fumbling with concepts.

1. Normal ruined octagonic city
2. Ruined octagonic city with plants
3. Ruined octagonic city with very few plants
4. Ruined octagonic city covered in snow/ice
5. Ruined octagonic city taken over by sand
6. Ruined octagonic city <s>in space</s>

Please vote for one, we can decide the alternate version(s) later.

[Obi1mcd]

1 is too limited. 2/3 have been done before, I suppose. 4 is relatively unique. 5 is not so relatively unique.

I'll vote for 4, with the possibility of 5 as a palette swap when the set's nearly done. There aren't nearly enough good quality snow sets.

[Sean]

4 too. We have a clear majority.

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7673/lmat205.png</td><td valign="top">Your discussion doesn't interest me at all so I just throw in some missing tiles.</td></tr></table>

[Jgke]

2 if it's lots of plants, 4 otherwise.

[Obi1mcd]

Regardless of theme, I'm going to put this here. I've sorted the palette a little, so it's a little more organized now. Note that I put all the different shades of green into one palette line, so they're all the same sort of colour.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1927/lmat018.png
Also, I haven't added SE's sucker tubes yet, but only because I want to add a few necessary bits like corners before I stick it in.
So, if possible, use this image as a base colour-wise.

EDIT:
Also, wondering about the water tiles n0 added. The text signs work great on an angle, but the water tiles are a little unusual, and wouldn't work with Water Block events. What do the rest of you guys think?

[Violet CLM]

This octagon texture has always felt too small for me, like it belongs more in a background layer than as the main wall. Partly because of the actual size of the octagons, partly because of the low contrast, and those unrealistic dark borders have never done it any favors. I tried upscaling it a bit, and I think it looks much more like something you could walk on like this:
<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/2011upscaled.png" />

[Jgke]

Ouch. That does look better than my work on the initial tile.

[Seren]

But is a bit late.

[Violet CLM]

Is it, though? If any of the proposed resettings go through, all the vine and moss tiles are probably doomed anyway, as are the green pipes on account of not really fitting into a ruined city of any sort. Things like the Devan statue or the (still diagonal?) waterfalls could be easily transplanted, and most of the rest is simple variations on the basic texture that could be easily redrawn in minutes. Not just in reference to my upscaling in particular, but just in general, if the theme is changed in accordance with most anything on Sean's list, a lot of stuff will have to go and so it's a good time to reexamine what we already have and make sure it's the best stuff to go forward with in the retheming.

[Jgke]

True. (Hmm, now when I think about it, I have given this only one single tile)

[cooba]

Violet: that turned out very blurry, maybe you can try downscale the 32x32 octagons instead?

I also think that the vague "octagonal Devan temple with plants" theme is cool. It's like a more interesting version of Turtemple. It's also not intrusive and leaves quite a bit up to the player's imagination, like Kansas. Which is better than outright saying "this will be a ruined city"!

[Jgke]

What's wrong with blurriness? I think it looks much better this way.

[Obi1mcd]

It does look better than the original, but it's also looking pretty colour-heavy. How many does it use?

EDIT: Ah, only 9. That's not bad at all. Perhaps a little less blur would be good though.

[Violet CLM]

Note that "9" is including transparency. It's an 8-color gradient, like the official JJ2 sets use for absolutely everything that they don't use a 16-color gradient for instead. Basically, the standard number of shades for a given color within a tileset. Nothing to worry about on that front. I'll see if I can figure out what "blurry" translates to on a pixel-by-pixel level and try to fix that.

[Obi1mcd]

I decided to try drawing a set of octagons from scratch, and got this:
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5075/lmatscraps004.png
I tried making it look a little more like stones this time around rather than just octagons. Opinions?

EDIT: Also, the only reason these are green is to make it easier for me to do some of the pixel-by-pixel shading. The colour scheme can be changed whenever.

EDIT2: Getting a little carried away, but how's this for a surface?
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1815/lmatscraps005.png

[cooba]

Recolored:

<img src="http://chaos.foxmage.com/cooba/newocta01.png" />

And again:

<img src="http://chaos.foxmage.com/cooba/newocta02.png" />

[Jgke]

I like cooba's version.

[minmay]

This set is turning into something I want to use! Hope it gets finished...

Anyway, here are the inside corner tiles for cooba's design, just so I can say I contributed something. Also, this file is smaller somehow.
http://www.cowmuffins.net/jazz/newocta03.png

[Obi1mcd]

I'm wondering if the two colour lines are really needed. It's sort of hard to tell them apart, and it means basically twice the colours. And when that means almost 2 palette lines, it's eating them up pretty quickly.

[cooba]

Since they're probably a side effect of the Noise tool, I'd guess no.

[Ktos.]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8986/chujkurwa.png

Mushrooms(glowing mushroom animation is unfinished yet, I'll make that later).

[Violet CLM]

could you make the mushrooms more octagonal

(The redraw is looking great, peeps.)

[Ktos.]

Well I can try but I dont think its easy to make good-looking octagonal mushroom.

[Seren]

Adding glowing mushrooms to tilesets is my job.

Anyway, I thought you redesigned the base tiles by the way of converting this tileset to some theme. I mean, where is that theme then? Ice and snow it was meant to be iirc.

[Ktos.]

I couldn't find any ice or snow in it so I decided to put mushrooms.

Btw, maybe lest make octagonic temple/city covered with mushrooms?

[Violet CLM]

There was a brief informal poll on the last page and Jake, Sean, and Obi opted in favor of an ice-clad ruined city, with no opposition. How does one best differentiate a city from a castle/temple, anyhow, if they're both made of stone? Houses, I guess? Maybe a well?

(And if you were talking to me, I redesigned the base tiles because they didn't look plausibly solid.)

[Ktos.]

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8986/chujkurwa.png

Finished glowing mushroom animation.

Edit:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2nqv85d.gif

[Obi1mcd]

Okay, I've lowered the number of colours on the blocks and mushrooms, although cleaning up the blocks involved removing the noise, so perhaps it isn't as good. Oh, and I did the mushrooms before you finished the glowing animation, Ktos, so that's not there yet. Last but not least, I tried making some snow, so how does it look?
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7820/lmat021.png
And I realize I'm probably doing a little too much drawing for a collaborative project, so I'll sit back and watch a little.

[Ktos.]

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7820/lmat021.png

I haven't reduced number of colours because I have no idea in which way have you done it.

Added ice, icicles, that mushroom animation and few snow tiles.

[Obi1mcd]

The way in which I had done it was basically taking the outline and a few key colours and reshading it. Perhaps I'll have a go at the glowing animation just to keep them consistent. I like those icicles by the way.

[Ktos.]

Perhaps I'll have a go at the glowing animation just to keep them consistent

That's why I haven't decided to do that.

[Sean]

I'm not quite sure I like the mushroom idea. It doesn't blend in well with snow.

On a similar note, I did some research on Arctic plants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_vegetation). Wikipedia has never been more appreciated. I've been working on converting them into some pixel art version ever since. I'll probably borrow the colors off Jazz to keep the number of colors low.

On another somewhat unrelated note, I'm going to keep with the ruined Roman city thing and start breaking everything. In the meantime, here is a poorly drawn and poorly dithered snow-blanketed ground. And some flowing off the sides.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat022.png

Just erase the bad text too.

EDIT: Behold, my best contribution yet.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat023.png

I am especially proud of the way the columns turned out. I am actually at most an amateur pixel artist.

I also added the blanketing snow to fill up onto a wall, and some other stuff going on.

And if you guys really don't mind, please, fill in the space marked with a vine. I am terrible with vines.

[Obi1mcd]

Nice. I'd better do those mushrooms.

[Jgke]

Awesome pillars. I'll see if I can do some vines...
E: Vines failed :(

[Sean]

Guys, how about we stick to the .bmp format? It'll be easier for everyone to keep track of the palette that way, and I can copy Jazz's colors off of the .pal file (or whatever extension you use) and draw the plants. If Obi's palette file is the only one there is, could he post either a .bmp file using the palette, or the palette itself?

In the meantime, a vine. Yay!

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat024.png

Also, how does everyone feel about http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmatproposedbg.png being the octagonic background?

[Violet CLM]

<img src="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/2011bestatued.png" />
I added back in n00b's statue from the last version, adjusted for the expanded palette, and threw in an alternative proposal to Sean's cave background, <strike>partially</strike> largely to mess with people and partially because I think it would be genuinely cool if we could pull it off.

(Regarding palettes: that's not currently possible because of, I think, the glowing mushrooms, which have taken us into 16-bit territory. If we can get those reduced, we can reinstate a palette. I stuck some reference gradients in there, though, to be useful.)

[Obi1mcd]

Here, fixed the palette and mushrooms up.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9425/lmatpalettefix002.png
Also, I want to try reshading that statue now that there are a couple more shades of colour to work with.
@Sean
This is a .png, not a .bmp, but you should still be able to get the palette from this.

[Violet CLM]

Also, I want to try reshading that statue now that there are a couple more shades of colour to work with.

For the record, I already did, but you are welcome to make it better. (Also in hindsight I forgot to do the base.)

[Sean]

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat206.png

Berries. And how they rock.

EDIT: In case there's any confusion, I didn't use any colors here that aren't already in the palette. The greens are borrowed off Jazz and the berries' red are from Spaz.

[Ktos.]

Oh well, sorry for making things maybe a little 16bit-ish, but my way of making tilesets is just much different.

[Obi1mcd]

That's fine, it isn't difficult for me to reduce it.

[Sean]

Anyone else think that we need more variety in colors here? So far all we've been doing is centered around the same palette.

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3831/lmat206.png</td><td valign="top">A fountain. Sorry it looks a little lame, the style this tileset is using is rather new to me and I've never really tried drawing anything similar. If you think it's alright I might draw an animated version with water and/or a snow version with frozen water. But I'm going to work on improving it first anyway.</td></tr></table>

[Toni_]

1) Fixed text signs (added snow and a normal sign) - 2 tiles
2) Added arrows (with snow and w/o it) - 12 tiles
3) Blocks (they don't look good. Someone fix them?) - 3 tiles
4) Added tiles for hurt scenery (with and w/o snow) - 6 tiles

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9936/tileset1.png

[Sean]

And who might you be?

I request taking out the spikes. Let's not be cliche with our hurt scenery! Think of something distinctly Roman.

SE, that fountain's looking good. I suggest literally breaking it instead of making it work.

[Violet CLM]

Those arrows would be a good candidate for any color but brown, since otherwise they're going to be pretty hard to notice.

[Sean]

So I've got this great idea in my head. I have concept art that took me an hour of honest effort to finish the idea but epicly failed. So here's my idea.

An aqueduct should be the background. If you don't know what an aqueduct is, you've missed out on a big portion of Roman history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_aqueduct). This is the concept art:

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/conceptart.jpg

Shitty? Extremely. You can see why I stopped. I tried to base the image off this flipped screenshot from Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood:

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/conceptbase.png

...except, of course, as a ruined winter version.

Now, to my idea. As you can see, the failed version/concept art has a large transparent background. That's because this was supposed to be on layer 7. Layer 8 will contain (nope! Not a textured background, god I would hate that in) a bunch of pixel clouds set on a blue background, with an auto X/Y speed. Clouds moving. If you get my drift.

Problem is that I'm just a very shitty artist. So I'm asking if anyone can try it out?

EDIT: Lazily put together example of what I have in mind: http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/Animationbluh.gif

[Violet CLM]

FYI, auto speeds don't work on layer 8. That said, I'm all in favor of a nice, as Gus puts it, non-composable backdrop. Making it look like BioWinter but with architecture can only be a good thing.

[Sean]

FYI, I do know my layers. The autospeed will have to be put on layer 5, but the moving clouds won't be a necessary thing. We can always place static clouds inside. Of course, it will eat up some tiles, but hey, I think it's worth it!

[Violet CLM]

No, assigning your desired speeds to layer 5 only works if layer 8 is textured. Your post specifically proposes a non-textured layer 8, in which case it simply would not move.

[Sean]

Ah. Okay.

[Jgke]

Who says we couldn't get clouds on a textured background? :)

[Sean]

I was saying I don't want a textured background. That stuff always just looks weird as a real sky.

[Obi1mcd]

We should probably put a textured bg in as an option at least, but I agree about a non-textured one. If done right they look so much better than textured ones.

[Toni_]

Those arrows would be a good candidate for any color but brown, since otherwise they're going to be pretty hard to notice.

What color would connect to the tileset the best?

[Sean]

What color would connect to the tileset the best?

Red? Or maybe green.

[Obi1mcd]

Hang on, though. A bright green signpost would look odd at the very least. Perhaps keep the brown palette, and make it look like it's made of wooden planks.

[Toni_]

I tried everything and seems like everything failed. No idea how to make them. Any other color doesn't fit, and every style I tried drawing, failed in fitting with the tileset.

Sir Ementaler, could you make a broken fountain with snow on it? It would be good to see.

[Ktos.]

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5816/tilesetkurwa.png

Not sure if you like it, its not octagonal. Actually that's that "aqueduct" idea, but I dont think that it can be used only in background tbh. If you dont like it, then I can try to edit it. I can also just add snow if you like it.

(I'll try to make a bigger aqueduct for the background later)

[Sean]

Actually that that "aqueduct" idea,

<s></s>:D

[Ktos.]

bah, that's that*

Maybe we should add something like a big colloseum to the background instead of aqueduct?

[Jgke]

Yeah, a colloseum would look good, but wouldn't a colosseum look better? :P

[Sean]

I'm pretty sure that a colloseum is 'straighter' than the Colosseum, so to speak.

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3831/lmat206.png</td><td valign="top">Perspective was wrong, now it's fixed (or at least - better). Added snow version. I'm not very proud of it but I don't feel like working on it again anytime soon. I refuse to break the fountain, it took too much time to build in the first place. If you want it broken, do so yourself.</td></tr></table>

[Ktos.]

Damn it, I'm making stupid mistakes last time.

Yeah, Colosseum idd.

[Seren]

How do people feel about Violet's background tiles? Ofc their quality is decent and it doesn't matter they are hexagons instead of octagons, but I mean how many tiles they already take, and how many more would be necessary to make them work on layer 4. Maybe they should be kept for background layers and some other cave tiles could be made?

[Jgke]

hexagons instead of octagons

Now I finally see what was bugging me on them. Thanks.
But, people probably like something different than a simple palette swap for the bg...
Edit: Whoops, I broke something.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Jgke/ibrokeit.png

[Toni_]

How do people feel about Violet's background tiles? Ofc their quality is decent and it doesn't matter they are hexagons instead of octagons, but I mean how many tiles they already take, and how many more would be necessary to make them work on layer 4. Maybe they should be kept for background layers and some other cave tiles could be made?

I would like them to be more darker for this set, but, if there are gonna be some more versions of this tileset, for ex. Day and Night, they could look too dark.

I agree that their quality is decent, but we shouldn't reduce the number of tiles they take. They're there only for background I think. Could be added some animated lamps on it, but I'm not very good with animations.

Idea: How about adding some chains in this tileset. Also, some ruined buildings would help a lot in eyecandy. Something like Sean's tiles, they're excellent.

Now I finally see what was bugging me on them. Thanks.
But, people probably like something different than a simple palette swap for the bg...

Thanks from me, too. I saw that they're too big, but they looked very weird. Now I see.

[Violet CLM]

Two points:
a) SE referred to increasing, not reducing, the number of tiles. This is because putting them in layer 4 would be a lot of work, since any other tile that could overlap them would potentially need at least three different versions, since the repeating texture is 3x1. That's a lot of added labor for the level designer and a lot fewer tiles available to us. That's all nullified if they're in layer 5 or something, but then it becomes somewhat less clear what they're supposed to be.
b) I'm against an animated lamp, because we need to focus on this being a city, not a castle.

[Jgke]

what they're supposed to be

Example level, anyone?

[Toni_]

Ahh, blame me for not cutting the image. I just forgot to do it.

Sorry Sir Ementaler. I know that you spent a lot of work on making your fountain, but I had to break it on a half.

Someone edit the water in fountain. I really sucked in making it.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9936/tileset1.png

[Sean]

Example level, anyone?

I recently tried making an example level but the palette is all messed up. We don't have Jazz's colors in there and the transparency stuff is all misplaced. I might get to work soon on fixing the palette because I'll be needing to grab stuff off of the default colors.

EDIT: I might also want to seriously bring up the topic of the mushrooms. I would have just plainly removed them a while ago, but this is a collaborative project and doing so could have sparked a flame war <s>and we all know what happened before</s>. I think the mushrooms look out of place, number one, and number two, what the hell are they doing glowing?

[Obi1mcd]

About the palette: The one I posted a little while ago had the Jazz 2 palette, but it's probably gone now.
About the mushrooms: I guess they're a little out of place on the stone, but what if we were to put them in the snow?
About the hexagons: Unless we keep layer 5 for these(which is probably a bad idea) then we should try to make a new pattern, I think. They're a little too impractical. Although, I think that doing something other than octagons would be good.

[Toni_]

About the mushrooms: I guess they're a little out of place on the stone, but what if we were to put them in the snow?

Mushrooms are out of place, indeed. Can I ask you, Obi, did you see mushrooms in the snow anywhere on the world? As far as I know, they grow only after the rain (95% of mushrooms). Some mushrooms grows under the ground. To be honest, I have never seen mushrooms in the snow.

[Seren]

95% of mushrooms grow on the wall of my room. I don't understand your doubts about them growing on a rock or in snow.

[Obi1mcd]

@JARU
I know they don't grow in snow, but it makes a little more sense than on a flat stone surface, doesn't it? Either way, we'll need some snow eyecandy of some sort. Any suggestions, other than the obligatory snowmen?

[Toni_]

Well okay. Some carts would be good, it's an old ruined city, and inbefore a lot of people used to use carts with horses. Of course, we don't need a horse. Some sleds could be good instead of adding snow on carts.

http://jilldenton.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cart-before-horse-2.jpg

95% of mushrooms grow on the wall of my room. I don't understand your doubts about them growing on a rock or in snow.

If you have mushrooms in your room like this ones on the tileset, then you must live in a jungle, and your walls must be made of ground and wood. But, if you mean on a small invisible-by-eye mushrooms, then you're alright.

[Seren]

Random Google search result (http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Mold-3776/2009/11/mushrooms-wall.jpg). If those are invisible-by-eye, I have superhuman seeing abilities.

Sorry for going off-topic, I'll try to post some cave tiles soon.

[Sean]

On the contrary, SE. I'm working on sorting out the palette right now, so please don't post anything up until I post a set with the updated palette. (I might even have an example level ready) I'm very frustrated with the mushrooms as they use a lot of colors, <s>all</s> most of them completely independent of the rest of the tileset's palette. If we all agree then, I'm going to take the mushrooms out.

[Seren]

Excuse my ignorance and remind me what's wrong with the palette used in this image?:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9425/lmatpalettefix002.png

[Sean]

I recently tried making an example level but the palette is all messed up. We don't have Jazz's colors in there and the transparency stuff is all misplaced.

:DD

[Obi1mcd]

Excuse my ignorance and remind me what's wrong with the palette used in this image?:

Pretty sure Palette Suite or whatever Sean's using to extract it is doing it strangely. Either way I've sent him a fixed up version.

[Obi1mcd]

He's got a working copy of that exact palette now, so everything should be fine.
A couple of things to note about that one:
The palette lines around 144 and 160 are for the mushrooms, but I planned to replace them. The first with the brown from the buildings, and the second with either the hexagons or something else.

[Sean]

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/lmat-1.png

Reduced version. I used my own version of the palette, but you can use the old palette to correct any mapping errors. The mushrooms now use the same colors as the snow and the ground (with the exception of the glowing mushroom, it still has its own colors).

EDIT: Yay, example level (http://www.mediafire.com/file/cfgbyperg89b243/LMAT%20Example.zip)! The aqueducts don't merge in well with the foreground though. They could use darkening.

[Obi1mcd]

Okay, fixed up the palette, as it came up with an odd layout on my end, and changed one or two things.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7080/lmat032.png
Here's a list of things that need doing:
The aqueducts need fixing/redrawing, as they don't tile vertically.
An alternate cave background. I think SE was about to do so, so that would be good.
More destruct scenery. Perhaps drawn differently?
A background layout would be a good idea, or at least some discussion on one.
More statues, probably of Devan?

And I dunno if the fountain needs water coming out of it. It's been broken for so long it wouldn't do anything anymore

[Sean]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101027230602/assassinscreed/images/b/b9/TrajanMarket.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110124135148/assassinscreed/images/thumb/0/07/Screen_shot_3.1.png/830px-Screen_shot_3.1.png

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110312164658/assassinscreed/images/thumb/9/91/Zw-ACBH-DLC-1-1.jpg/830px-Zw-ACBH-DLC-1-1.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101013231246/assassinscreed/images/b/b0/Pantheon..jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101013173259/assassinscreed/images/1/14/Collosseum.jpg

Some lovely landmarks in Rome for reference/inspiration for backgrounds.

To top it all off, a panorama.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110214214107/assassinscreed/images/thumb/b/bb/Rome_1_by_murcuseo-d338rco.jpg/830px-Rome_1_by_murcuseo-d338rco.jpg

All courtesy of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.

[Jgke]

That city might be fun to freerun in, but I don't think our octagonal tiles fit in a Roman style...

[Obi1mcd]

We're obviously not going for too much realism, but we can use a few of the images for reference for backgrounds, for example.

[Sean]

Alright. So instead of bantering back and forth about not being able to find the palette, I put it right there inside the PNG file. Right there.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/LMATPaletteEdit.png

I based this completely off the palette Obi sent me, except for a little colors I reduced in the post somewhere above. So we have less colors.

Obi, can you get the palette off this one correctly?

[Jgke]

Why didn't you just use a palette on that .png file? :P

[Obi1mcd]

Obi, can you get the palette off this one correctly?
No. What program are you using for the art itself? Also, if you download the image, is its palette messed up for you too?
And on the palette reductions: One of the mushrooms now uses a colour from the snow's palette line.

[Ktos.]

Oh well, I can redraw the aqueduct if you want. I'm not really used to work like that, the mushrooms idea was random, and I like to put random things into tilesets. Actually I was even going to make a big mushrooms covered with snow, rabbits could jump or run on it. I decided that it's bad idea because it seems, that tilesets for a game overruned with rabbits jumping with a big guns and shooting turtles are supposed to have much more common sense... Well, I dont mind anyway.

I am also going to draw a background for layer8, and here is the question: what about resolution for the background image? And what would you like to see in the background? We can also use normal textured background if you want, but I think that much more suitable for this set would be hand-drawn background.

[Sean]

I am also going to draw a background for layer8, and here is the question: what about resolution for the background image? And what would you like to see in the background? We can also use normal textured background if you want, but I think that much more suitable for this set would be hand-drawn background.

<s>Idea steal combo</s> 640x480 (which amounts to 20x15 tiles) and also "colloseum" plz kthxbai.

Obi, the mushrooms using the snow colors was intended. You can of course change it back if you don't think that's a good idea.

[Obi1mcd]

Main issue is that I want to keep bits of art from using different palette lines. For example, if we change the snow to sand, the mushrooms will have a few pixels of yellow/brown in the middle of them.
Obviously not a huge deal, but it's good to be consistent.

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1888/lmat207.png</td><td valign="top">3 cave tiles, a missing octagon in the snow tile and a hippeastrum. Yes, I put a huge tropical flower in the middle of our snowy ruins and I'm proud of it. It could look better, I was drawing it without referencing to the current tiles at all so I forgot to draw outline and had to add it later, which obviously reduced its quality.</td></tr></table>

[Sean]

Naw. It looks good.

[Seren]

The berries, vines, text signs and probably columns, if you don't want them to stand out, need shading fixes, so expect that's what I'm going to do next.

[Jgke]

The columns are fine in my opinion.

[Seren]

They are shaded in a different way than the rest of the tileset. The brightest colour they use is found nowhere else in the image, even though they seem to be made of the same material as octagons, the statue and the fountain. Also the broken one is shaded in wrong spots, that is, it looks like light is directed from bottom right instead of top right.

[Sean]

Also the broken one is shaded in wrong spots, that is, it looks like light is directed from bottom right instead of top right.

Good catch. I'll fix them myself, so you don't need to bother. By the way, what's wrong with the vines and berries?

[Seren]

They look like you were too afraid to use some serious shading on them, so they only use some very similar shades of a colour and therefore look flat, and - because of being so bright - they draw attention (in a negative meaning). In case of vines it doesn't look very bad, but berries use a distinctive colour (green and red isn't used anywhere else except Devan's eye and my hippeastrum), what makes them stand out even more.

[Ktos.]

That might be a stupid question but well, why not.

Would you like the background to bee a view of ruined city(with colosseum ofc) with a big mushroom in the very background?

[Seren]

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7180/lmat208.png

[Sean]

My berries! What did you do?

WHAT DID YOU DO?

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/scraps/whatdidyoudo.gif

Just kidding it's fine. Liking the new vine though. Also, I still haven't managed to find time to work on my broken pillars. Not that I don't have time. I just seem to get sidetracked. Not to mention Homestuck's EOA is coming out TODAY!

[Quintocle]

Some necessary Tiles.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2069/lmat035.png

[Crazy Rabbit]

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg39/scaled.php?server=39&filename=atileforlmat22t.png&res=medium

2 decorative tiles and concept torch... Planning to do animated tiles.

Fited with palette

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5755/lmat210.png</td><td valign="top">Didn't change much. The additions are layer 4 cave tiles and some random solid blocks with something that's supposed to look like roses. Also there are some minor fixes. Edits include mainly both of the broken fountains (moved Jake's one some pixels left so it doesn't take an additional tile for only 2 pixels, fixed JaRU's one so it makes any sense) and some arrows that didn't connect correctly.

Now I should make a note about CR's tiles and why they aren't in there. Remember it's only my decision and some of those tiles can still be added if people want them. The torch looks unfinished and flat, and uses a different type of perspective than the tileset does. The bottom left tile looks unfinished, uses a different type of colour transition than the tileset does (Blade's early tilesets spring to mind) and doesn't connect to any of the existing tiles (making it hard to place it anywhere in a level). The top left tile looks fine except it doesn't seem to fit the tileset style-wise too well.

I think snow, fountain and statue tiles inside of the cave aren't necessary, but feel free to add them if you disagree. Some cave tiles are missing (inside curves), I simply forgot them. Will be added later. Also, now is probably the right time to say if you dislike these cave tiles generally (and draw better ones if you do =P).</td></tr></table>

[Toni_]

Excellent!

[Obi1mcd]

Ah, great job. I've been a tad busy the last few days, but at some point I might try doing some background stuff, like fixing up the aqueduct. Also, your cave tiles are fine, although I think we should probably remove the ones down the bottom since they won't match up with the others.

[Jgke]

Uh, at some point, would someone mind fixing the leftmost part of my broken fountain? It's at a bit unnatural angle... Yes, I am busy.

[Crazy Rabbit]

See? Like i said in past: I'm sux in tilesetmaking... I'm outta.

Good luck!
(negrep me for that)

[Sean]

Looking good, SE.

Crap. You reminded me I have yet to do the pillars. I'll post them up sometime soon, I swear.

[Sean]

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8148/lmatfixedbrokenpillars.png

I am so sorry this took so long, but I fixed the lighting on the broken pillars and added a subtle shadow effect to it as an after thought. Now, I'm getting a little stuck on ideas for the set.

The thread is being ignored. :(

[Jgke]

Going to make a textured BG later today, blue or red?

[Sean]

Very light blue.

[Obi1mcd]

Definitely blue. But didn't we decide a non-textured background would be the way to go?

[Sean]

You did say that we should still leave the option in if the level maker wants it. I'd still propose a background with Jazz Blue in place of the sky, so that we can use a textured or non textured background behind that other layer.

[Jgke]

Also it only takes a 8x8 off the tileset, I can make it use water colours.

[Sean]

Also it only takes a 8x8 off the tileset, I can make it use water colours.

More relevantly, it uses 64 tiles. 8x8 just sounds so small. Watercolor seems good as well.

[Obi1mcd]

That's basically what he said. 8x8 tiles = 64 tiles.

[Sean]

That's basically what he said. 8x8 tiles = 64 tiles.

Nice timing. I just edited my post to clarify my point when you posted.

[Obi1mcd]

So, I'm slowly attempting to make a non-textured background, and I'm also considering some trees. Should the trees be evergreens (pine trees) or some bare trees without leaves?

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7837/lmat211.png</td><td valign="top">It's the first time I add some new colours to this tileset. And yet the block of ice using them sucks. Guess I'll have to fix it later. Either way, you now have some scenery blocks and inside corners of the cave. Besides, the mushrooms look more natural and Jake's edit of the fountain doesn't look like it was rotated in a cheap graphics program. At least not as much as before.</td></tr></table>

[Sean]

Great revival yay.

[Jgke]

Actually my try at the fountain could be removed, the left part looks way too weird ;)

[PT32]

This may be a bit early to be bringing this up, but this would (in my opinion) be a great variation on this tileset.


Make a space station that's been built OVER the ruins of a temple.

Kind of like a "Technology trumps Archaeology" concept. Devan's run out of galactic real estate, so now he's building over all of the galaxy's ancient ruins. He constructs a super-high-tech space base, heartlessly wiping out the priceless relics beneath him (Which, if he had been smart, he could've sold to an archaeologist foundation for a profit, instead of just needlessly wasting them).

You could input some futuristic stuff to counterbalance the musty, outdated stone temples, as well as some tiles showing Devan's improvised merging of the two (i.e.-crumbled, busted rock and twisted, bent metal meeting in the same tile).

Plus some bracken water (It could also be toxic chemicals from Devan's base leaking out into the ruins).

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Sean]

So does anyone want to do anything here?

[Obi1mcd]

Yes, I do. I'm occupied for a few weeks, but I do plan on continuing this at some point.

[Seren]

This has been inactive for barely a month, what's the problem?

[Sean]

A month without activity of any sort on a collaborative project is definitely of note. (Also not of note is that I actually am working on that little game thing)

[Obi1mcd]

Since this was bumped:
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4182/lmatreducedmarch21.png
So, I've made a start on re-organising things slightly. I've added Sir Ementaler's tiles to the main image, and added a bunch of red X tiles to mark the empty areas more clearly. Also, I removed Violet's cave tiles, as they were rather messy from a usage perspective and Sir Ementaler's alternative seems to be somewhat simpler.
Lastly, I removed the background aqueduct things from the main image. We can still use them later if they get revised, but for the time being they still don't tile so they have been removed.
Oh, and the thing has been reduced to the right colour depth again.
So now we have about 380 tiles. A few less, considering the blanks in there. Either way, we have a good base to work from, and I think we need to focus on eyecandy now. If anybody has any tiles they think would fit, go ahead and submit them. Don't worry about colour depth, I'll personally reduce them to whatever is needed if they are drawn in 24-bit rather than 8-bit.

[Sean]

You didn't include the properly lighted pillars I posted.

[Obi1mcd]

Pillars have been added. I'll just put it as a link instead of filling the thread with enormous images.
Get it here (http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7538/lmatrev002.png).
Also, on that subject, it's probably better to just post specific tiles as small images than to put them directly into the large one. Not only does it take less space, it's easier to revise their palettes like that.

[Sean]

http://i43.tinypic.com/33ekffl.png

http://www.massongroup.com/Torch.gif

I know Violet said not to include torches as we should focus on the city aspect of this tileset, but torches fit well into the period in any case.

Slick at 15fps.

[PT32]

Add a torch with no flame, so that players can shoot it and put out the torch.

[Obi1mcd]

Destruct scenery from an animated tile? I don't know if that's possible.

[PT32]

Well, I guess it doesn't have to be "shootable", per se.

I was really angling for just a burnt out/put out/deadened torch, like one that had been extinguished by something. You asked for eyecandy, so I thought I'd suggest an idea.

[Jgke]

It should be able.

[Violet CLM]

Destruct scenery from an animated tile? I don't know if that's possible.
It is. JCS balks a bit, but other level editors support it.

[Love & Thunder]

Hey guys, I've got a few questions about this LMAT Project...
1. Is this LMAT Project for all members of the community, or just a few people?
2. If so, why isn't this explained in the OP?
3. What does LMAT stand for?
4. Is this one of those posts that make me look like a total idiot?
EDIT: Thanks. :)

[Jgke]

1) Everyone.
2) It isn't?
3) Let's make a tileset
4) kinda

[Obi1mcd]

OK, so destruct scenery works. In any case, I didn't mean to say we won't have burnt-out torches because we should, that makes sense. I just didn't realize you could actually do that with destruct scenery.

[Sean]

That actually gives me an idea. The destruct scenery could work the other way around, where if you shoot the torch using the toaster (the weapon field on the event set to 6), the torch will light.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/stuff.png

I tried adding smoke but never went well. Hopefully this looks good enough.

I also forgot to add that the fire uses 4 new colors, such that if a night version of the set is made the flame's luminosity does not change.

[Seren]

The destruct scenery could work the other way around, where if you shoot the torch using the toaster (the weapon field on the event set to 6), the torch will light.
I'm working on such tileset (almost fully based on the concept) for almost 2 years.

[Violet CLM]

I was trying to figure out how that could <em>ever</em> be useful, <a href="http://www.tachyonlabs.com/sam/YouHaveToBurnTheTorch.j2l">and then I got carried away.</a> Done pretty sloppily, so 30-60% of the time the crate will just slide out of the wall instead of quietly exploding, but I guess the takeaway is that lighting torches could make sense if you attach triggers to them.

[Sean]

Hey, I was just about to do that!

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/h3llb0yn3cr0/Collapsebridge.png

A triangle bridge thingy. The dust is to shake off when he runs onto a collapse scenery.

<span style="font-size: 3pt;"><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke">You also have to burn the ROPE</a></span>

<span style="font-size: 3pt;">I also meant that you could just make the thing reversed for little surprises for the player (Oh hey, this torch LIGHTS!)</span>

[Seren]

Note: the reason I wrote the post above is to have any kind of reference when people start to whine about how unoriginal my idea is since it was already used in LMAT (even if in my tileset it's much more elaborate). Sheesh, it's really annoying when people suddenly publicly announce starting an awesome project you're secretly working on for a lot of time already. And lately this happens surprisingly often to me.

[Obi1mcd]

New signposts and arrows. The arrows can potentially be placed sideways on a wall.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2053/signposts.png

[PurpleJazz]

Are people still interested in this project? I may be able to find some time in order to contribute to LMAT again, although I'd like to know how many would still be willing to work on this tileset.

[Obi1mcd]

I'll still be willing to work on it.

[Sean]

Coincidentally I was just going to start working on clouds for the background.

[Seren]

<table frame="void"><tr><td>http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4163/lmattrey.png</td><td valign="top">This is a version altered by TreyLina long ago that she was going to show here but never finished. The main change she was trying to make is removing outlines. As I said, she stopped to work on it halfway through so what you can see is a mix of tiles with and without outlines which doesn't really look as appealing, but my opinion on the finished parts is certainly positive. If I were the one to decide, I would no doubt continue with the no-outline style and I'm fine with converting everything to it myself. But in before I do a load of unnecessary work I'm asking for opinions on it. Focus mainly on snow sections and the flower since I assume those are the only entirely finished parts. You can also notice some changes on the background (cave) tiles but since they don't tile too well now, I would be hesitant about keeping them.</td></tr></table>

[PurpleJazz]

If anyone plans to continue work on this project, I strongly suggest giving the ground and "cave" tiles some more variety. The tiles at the moment are fine as they are, but without some kind of alternative pattern to work with them that are complimentary, I imagine people would get pretty sick of seeing octagons and squares everywhere. It would be nice to give JCSers the option of enhancing the appearance of the solid areas without having to do the oh-so-cliché method of filling them with holes.

[KRSplatinum]

I recolered some of the berries in Trey's image that SE posted! I'm not sure what to think of this...

http://s28.postimg.org/rrpl6mzm5/lmat_trey_berry_evolution.png

They evolved into a rainbow bush! :P

[Sean]

LMAT 2011

Oh my god we're late

[Seren]

I was full of worries at first when I noticed this LMAT has 2011 in the name. Then I found out my latest contribution comes from only a little over a year ago so the edit I'm working on is not taking so long at all. Just give me a couple more months perhaps.

[Love & Thunder]

This set actually looks pretty usable as it is. (Hint hint)
In fact, it actually looks pretty nice. (Hint hint hint)

[Hare]

Needs a snowfall tile.

[Violet CLM]

Oh my god we're late
pfff, this is practically punctual. Now, LMAT <em>Valentine's Day</em> is late, and February is just around the corner, so this would be a great time for someone to buckle down and do the mask...

[cooba]

LMAT Valentine's Day is not late. It will be finished precisely when it is meant to.

[DoubleGJ]

what is three years in the face of all eternity

[Obi1mcd]

oh hey, this thing!

Since everyone is here at once, I was thinking of starting some kind of jj1-themed LMAT. Finishing any LMAT would be an achievement, though, so perhaps starting a new one from scratch isn't the best idea.

Oh and I recall trying to fit Valentine's Day to a palette a while back. I might go do some digging around.

[Hare]

I made some snowfall tiles of varying sizes. Not sure what pallete you guys are using, but this should convert when pasted with the others, right?

http://drawingforward.com/img/jj/ts/lmat2011/snowfall-tiles.png

[Love & Thunder]

[...]this would be a great time for someone to buckle down and do the mask...
I could probably do a pretty decent job(I certainly would have the time).

And, if no one else wants to do it, I'd be happy to mask this set once it is considered ready. Which I doubt will be too long now, given Hare's snowflake tiles. :)

[Obi1mcd]

http://imageshack.com/a/img571/9332/o96g.png

Y/N?

[Hare]

Very yes.

That looks like it would be a lot of work to update all the octogon tiles with the new style... But it looks great!

[snzspeed]

http://imageshack.com/a/img571/9332/o96g.png

Y/N?

That looks awesome. :D

[Violet CLM]

The top/right shading is a little bit too harsh, I think, but it definitely looks more eye-popping than before!

[Obi1mcd]

Alright, thanks! I'll work on it a little, and continue with where Trey was going with the outlines.

[Love & Thunder]

I like it, but I prefer the version already in the tileset.
No offense intended, of course; I'm just speaking my mind.

[Seren]

This is what the original tiles look like in my current WIP version:
http://imageshack.com/a/img833/4027/802h.png

I thought you might want to use it for reference while removing outlines on yours. I have some other tiles but not all are finished and I'd rather upload them all together (and some are now obsolete if we're changing base tiles). I was being literal when I said I worked on this.
Hare, I'll speak as a level maker, I always hated group rain / snow tiles. I consider them useless. There are two basic ways you can think of putting them in a level:
<table frame="void" cellpadding="16"><tr><td>http://imageshack.com/a/img690/1164/j06j.png

Awful. It makes completely no sense for snow to fall in groups like that.</td><td>http://imageshack.com/a/img713/4047/2u2n.png

Rather bad. It looks repetitive and too much like tiles.</td></tr></table>
It's a much better solution to put each particle of snow on a separate tile. This way you give level makers more freedom, allow for better eyecandy and even give the tileset better AngelScript support.

[cooba]

Obi's new tiles with a less distinct outline would be the bomb.

Also, what SE said about rain.



EDIT: I thought about the theme a bit - how did this Roman-era city become a ruin? - with disastrous results:

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/IaMOdu1.png" />

I turned snow into something that might resemble volcanic ash. I think it makes the green details pop out more and meshes better with the blue background, but it's only a suggestion. No idea how to include the ice into the theme, unless we're willing to accept that a nuclear winter took place...

[KRSplatinum]

It's always possible to use snow or rain in a level, but use an AS or a trigger which determines or allows a player to determine when it's precipitating and when there's no precipitation in the level. Because I also hate playing with extreme weather in the foreground, it's an eyesore. However, falling snowflakes typically look amazing. And rain or snow tiles like to be in tilesets just to give mapmakers some inspiration, since they just look wet that way, so can be used for other purposes. For example, SE, maybe you wouldn't want snow to look that way as it falls, but that could depict snow that's already fallen and stuck as a foreground element to go along with the never-melting ice on the ground.

[Violet CLM]

Personally, I'm fond of the Snow event...

[Love & Thunder]

I'm with Violet...

Also, I think that that volcanic ash thing could work as an alternate colour scheme, but otherwise, I prefer the original snow colours.

[Seren]

Personally, I'm fond of the Snow event...
The Snow event will not allow you to create snowstorms, however. And you can't turn the event off without a hackish approach. And snow tiles also go well with the event, as you can see in devres60.j2l. And-- wait, I can't remember, did you make the event work for clients?

[Treylina]

Snowfall tiles (for layer 1/2) feel pretty pointless when you can just use the ones in JCS, which also look and work better. Yeah, they don't work well in MP, though that's something to fix in the future.

So anyway, I did my attempt on the brown tiles. I only changed parts because I don't want to work into it so much just to end up not being used. There are 4 different colouring styles I attempted. The middle is a cross between Obi's attempt and SE's edit. The other 3 edits are just experiments. Also, when a colouring style has been decided, each inside will be varied, to make it look more organic. There will be additional variants for the sides and insides.

http://s28.postimg.org/tbxeg2e3x/Brown_Tiles_Edit.png

So go and vote for which style you like best. Including SE's edit, the original and Obi's attempt.

Also, vote whether you think I should stick with using the extra colours. I used 6 more colours on the bottom right, which makes it appear smoother, though not by a drastic amount.

Also, I'm not really satisfied with the ice tile I had made.

[Sean]

Have to say I'm still preferring the old style over Obi's newer attempt, though I can't say for sure why.

[Obi1mcd]

As a suggestion, perhaps we should go with coloured, softer outlines instead of going outline-free? It would make it significantly easier than having to redo all other tiles to match.

[Treylina]

As a suggestion, perhaps we should go with coloured, softer outlines instead of going outline-free? It would make it significantly easier than having to redo all other tiles to match.

I actually meant coloured outlines rather than none. I think SE misunderstood what I was trying to do.

[Love & Thunder]

My favourite is the... Original? Whichever one is fully(?) shown in the top-right of that image you posted. It'd look nicer with clearer outlines, IMO, though.

Although, having said that, they all look nice. :)

[Obi1mcd]

Is there any more specific reason why you prefer the original?

[Hare]

Oh, there's a snowfall event? I haven't used JCS in quite some time... Yeah, I do think I recall a nifty snow effect in the hell freezes over level. Ookie. Yeah, snowfall tiles would be rather redundant.

[Love & Thunder]

Is there any more specific reason why you prefer the original?
IMO, the top-left one of the four in the image looks too flat. I prefer it to look deeper(Or thicker, I guess). Also, I prefer the shading style on the original.

[DennisKainz]

The tileset is not really in the JJ2 style, but it still looks awesome! Looking forward to see it finished!

[Toni_]

Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but I wonder if we are going to keep working on this?