This is something I have been thinking about for a while, and I'd like so to see what other people's opinions are.

A long time ago, I thought that gems were basically useless events, and I avoided using them in levels. After all, the only thing they do is give you points, and then at the end of the level you get to see how many you collected. The gem count at the end of the level can be sort of fun, but it doesn't really do anything. You'll notice that in my first two single player episodes, there are hardly any gems at all. The exception was purple gems, which I put 20 of in each level, just for fun. Of course, this was pretty much a useless feature as well, but it at least gave a few players a weird sense of accomplishment.

At some point I changed my mind on this issue. My later SP episodes have plenty of gems in them (mostly red, with green and blue being found rarely, in secret areas), and therefore have a noticeably higher quantity of items you can pick up. My reasoning is that while gems are functionally useless, they have a visual effect of making a level appear more "full" (you can't really do this with food because the player would be getting constant sugar rushes). Also, having a larger number of goodies floating around encourages the player to move around and jump more by collecting them, and I think this makes the gameplay of the level a bit more dynamic. Because of this, I now think gems do serve a purpose.

I also got rid of the 20 purple gems thing in my later episodes, since the gem counter disappears after collecting 100 gems (and in most levels this happens pretty quickly), making it impossible for the game to count how many purple gems you found (the end-of level tally only includes red, green and blue; not purple).

I COULD replace the purple gems with 20 blue gems (and thus have the end of level count include them), but the problem with that is enemies sometimes drop blue gems. That's why I chose purple.



This is a fairly minor topic, but it's one of those things that I think about sometimes. One of the reasons is because it has created a clear stylistic difference between my earlier episodes and my later ones, and I find that inconsistency a bit bothersome. It's not quite enough for me to go and add more red gems to the early episodes though.

So, my main question is, what do you think about using gems in SP levels? Useless? Or not useless? Which style is better?

I also have a second question: what do you think of the purple gems concept? One thing that I might actually just go and replace them with blue gems in ep1 and ep2, and add them to ep3 and ep4. I've been meaning to update them anyway (like I did last year). A lot of people have told me it's fun to try collecting all 20, and even though blue gems can pop up randomly, rarely, it's not that big of a deal.

I like gems. They're not nearly as varisome as food, and they don't have that added sugar rush thing, but sugar rushes are hell to plan around anyway... most basically, they feel more valuable, and they're pretty, and I like that they come in different denumerations.

They certainly add value to a level imo (if well-placed and not spammed, of course). Also, I'd leave the purple gem thing in your episodes, and maybe re-use the idea some time if I were you. When I played your episodes, I never bothered to gather all of them, but whenever I found one, I thought "hihihi cool almost there".

i actually use gems as integral eyecandy....as for the real use they are pretty useless, but then again, in Pac-Man the regular pellets do basically nothing but give points but they have been worked integrally into something of possible interest

What I'm doing with ep5 is I'm making each level have exactly 20 green gems and 10 blue gems. As for red gems, it varies by level (and I don't keep track of how many there are). No purple because they aren't counted at the end of the level, and so are harder to keep track of. Also, each level has one very well hidden gem ring.

So, it's an idea quite similar to the purple gem concept, just adapted for the way I currently design levels.

I'm also planning on adding this feature to ep3 and ep4.

As for the first two episodes, I MIGHT convert them to be this way as well, by adding red gems and converting the purples to green/blue etc, but this would be a lot more work for me, so it's not a top priority.

I kind of wish JJ2 would keep the gem counter past 100. It would make things a bit more fun imo. Maybe this is something JJ2+ could add.

gems are simply for people who challenge levels for the highest highscore. i think that what is meant to be or be high after playing. because of the highscore list etc. however, if you have time the highscore system fails, you can constantly get points on respawning objects.

I like gems. I often use them in SP levels to show the correct route. My levels often have a lot of sidepaths (sometimes containing ammo, or a coin, or just a lot of bad luck and enemies) but as soon as you stop seeing Red Gems littered everywhere, you know you're not heading towards your objective.

I know that I'm not very well known for my SP packs... the two I did release were flops (and lost). I am working on a storyline again, though, but as with most SP packs of mine, I rarely finish them. So far I have three unfinished packs which use the idea of Red Gems as route indicators:

- Spaz Revolutions
This pack was supposed to be a Spaz only pack, which included certain levels which you played as Jazz as the 'other side of the story'-element. This one is lost and will never be recovered.
- The Game
A quick mindspin of mine. Jazz is arrested by the High Council of Heaven and Earth for entering hell and, together with Devan, he's doomed to be sent into oblivion by the high council... but Jazz gets one last chance, because he did indeed kill Devan. For some reason, Devan gets to compete as well in an odd, mission-based tournament called 'The Game'... The main plot was that Devan and Jazz were sent on missions to restore balance in the world, by countering terrorist actions, foreseeing global disasters etc. This will probably never be finished.
- Jazz Advance 2: When Epic Strikes Back
This pack has the most chance of being finished at the moment. This takes place in the Jazz Jackrabbit Advance universe. It starts on IceBoxIII where Jazz finds himself buried in an avalanche. He managed to get up and has 'lost his memory'; which is to say, he thinks he's in the JJ2 universe. He takes off his shirt (sexy) and tries to find Spaz and Eva, both which don't exist in the JJA universe anymore. He gets contacted by Margsly of R.A.B.T. and Margsly explains everything. Overall a funny, light pack with things such as CliffyB cameos and lots of in-jokes and community humour. I hope to finish this one day, but it's a lot of story and a lot less action, which makes linking the levels hard.

... so yeah, to answer your question, gems are good and the counter needs to be fixed and even include purple, Super Gems and Gem Rings, if you ask me.

Keep the ep1 and ep2 gems purple please!

Originally Posted by cooba

Keep the ep1 and ep2 gems purple please!

What if I were to edit the first 2 episodes to include more red gems (like eps 3-5)? Not that I'd spam the levels full of them or anything, just put them in a few spots where it feels a bit empty. There's a chance I might do that, since I want all of the episodes to be consistent in level design.

In that case, it becomes virtually impossible to count purple gems (they also look somewhat similar to red ones). Would I be justified in changing them to green/blue in that case?

Hmmm.. I like an idea for something like a gemrush wich give u a sort of shield power for a short amount of time when collecting X gems

I honestly liked going for the 20 purple gems, sometimes I would just not finish the level if I didnt have any. All I wanna say is limit the way of doing it so that there are ways of dying and getting more gems.

I do not like the idea of putting the other gems instead of purples. While they're pretty and all that, I'd rather just collect the purples.

My opinion = ++gems
Espescially collection 20 purple gems like this is fun

Rather force the player to touch a checkpoint before he can continue. That's what I've done recently at least.

Originally Posted by EvilMike

What if I were to edit the first 2 episodes to include more red gems (like eps 3-5)? Not that I'd spam the levels full of them or anything, just put them in a few spots where it feels a bit empty.

I never found any part of ep1 and 2 feeling empty. And I'm strongly against changing the gems, just to preserve the nostalgic value (I'm pathetic like that).

Having to search for 20 purple gems feels fun. Running around and collecting randomized amounts of red/green/blue gems does not.

(I don't dislike gems in SP, I just much prefer purple gems in early devres )

Originally Posted by cooba

I never found any part of ep1 and 2 feeling empty. And I'm strongly against changing the gems, just to preserve the nostalgic value (I'm pathetic like that).

Having to search for 20 purple gems feels fun. Running around and collecting randomized amounts of red/green/blue gems does not.

(I don't dislike gems in SP, I just much prefer purple gems in early devres )

I get what you are saying, but note that the amount would NOT be random. Red would vary level-by level, but blue and green would have the EXACT same amount in every level (which is what I'm doing with ep5, and will definitely be converting ep3 and ep4 to). 20 green and 10 blue.

If I edited ep1 and ep2 to have gems like the other episodes (and that's a big if), I would basically keep the purple gems in the same spot. They would just be changed to green or blue, and I'd add a few more gems, probably most of them in the same places, to round it out to 30. They generally wouldn't get mixed in with red gems either (I use red gems for normal areas, and green/blue for secrets and hard to reach spots). My reason for considering this change is consistency. I'm a bit obsessive when it comes to little differences in design and stuff like that. For example, I once updated the first few episodes just to change the height text appears at, so all the episodes are the same.

I find it interesting that people prefer purple gems. Is it the colour that matters? Or the fact that they are the only gems you can find in the level? (this is untrue btw because ep1 and ep2 DID include red gems, just not very many). Or is it because enemies don't randomly drop them?

Originally Posted by Vivando

Rather force the player to touch a checkpoint before he can continue. That's what I've done recently at least.

This is basically impossible in anything but the most linear level, and almost pointless for a feature as minor as the one discussed here. Note that the purple gems idea and the later green/blue/gemrings idea are literally afterthoughts. I make the levels and then when everything else is completely finished, I go "oh this would be a good spot for some hard to get gems". It's just done to amuse players.

EvilMike, episode 1 and 2 are from years back (2005?), and it took 2 years (right?) just to get to episode 3 and 4. When a long period of time passed, the art direction of artists changes. That's how it is, you see it in every kind of art, it makes it more interesting and enjoyable. I know we speak of level making, so you may want the experience to be the one of a set, but I think leaving the past is what best, so a player can see the changes from episode to episode.

Originally Posted by EvilMike

I get what you are saying, but note that the amount would NOT be random.

Oh so you're removing all the enemies and crates? Taking storytelling to the max, I see.

Actually I was thinking about just removing the levels entirely, and replacing them with scrolling text. It's just not possible to tell the story I want using normal jj2, and levels ultimately just get in the way of that. One long cutscene would serve the plot much better, I think.