It was so fun.Why did Jazz2city have to leave?

I remember the JMMB. J2C had to leave because it was too stressful on the webmasters, and they could no longer update it with an FTP program.

I remember it existed, and that I used it quite a lot, but I do not remember exactly waht I posted. Which scares me. ;-P

J2C was shut down because the atmosphere was becoming too explosive, according to Dethman.

Yeah i remember it, I was there a month before it got closed down.

Que Passa!!!!

Ah, yes... I remember that...

The annual evil contests, "The Story Of Devan Shell", "Spaz Saves the World All By Himself With Nothing But Speed, Wits, and a Large Slice Of Cheesecake"... Ah such wonderful threads I made there...

I still miss the wonder of that old place.

I went there a couple times, downloaded levels, I probably didn't know what a forum was at the time. J2O is like a new J2C, even better maybe.

Wow,you made those,Batty?The spaz and cheescake one was the first thing i read there.And I remember you to!!

I remember going to Jazz2City a lot. I never visited the JMMB though.

In retrospect, I feel like an idiot.

Originally posted by CottonTail
It was so fun.Why did Jazz2city have to leave?

No durrrh.

Originally posted by CottonTail
It was so fun.Why did Jazz2city have to leave?

Well it was very fun. J2C was best Jazz site ever. And still is, J2S also died. Which was reallt great. We hope that eventually Wakeman will find JCF. And will tell us what's going on.

I remember JMMB. I had an account on there. I forgot what my name was though. I think it was JJ Tublear.

Originally posted by JJ Tublear
We hope that eventually Wakeman will find JCF. And will tell us what's going on.

Who's we? Wakeman is already registered on the JCF, his account's older than yours afaik. ;P

He puruses the forum every so often, and he'll get the J2S archive up eventually. ;P

I wish that the J2C files were still available. It had the best music pack, and with it, almost every server that I went to had music, and I was certain that if I included one of the songs in a level, most everyone else could hear it, too.

I remember the JMMB, too... I pretty much only visited the art forum back then.... hmm, I also remember I was a lot more immature. ... Wow, that was my first message board, even. (That was back when I finally got an internet connection at home.)

Originally posted by Trafton
J2C was shut down because the atmosphere was becoming too explosive, according to Dethman.

That was the JMMB.

Nope, dun remember it.
Which could be because I never was there.

Of course I remember the JMMB! I even recently made two topics about it in the Misc forum.

I remember Dethman closed it down saying it was lacking in christian values and everybody should go home and read their bible...

Yeah RIGHT!

I mean how patronizing is that? Like everyone is supposed to be a christian or something.


It used to be a nice place though...

The very subject of this thread is amusing. Most of the users of this forum came from the JMMB on J2C. I was there, but I remember almost nothing I posted, and I didn't post much, but I was there. Asking a question like 'Does anyone remember remember Epic's old Jazz Jackrabbit forum' would be a little more interesting =P

Brian has a backup of all of J2C, including the JMMB. It's getting it all up and working that would be the problem.

And what are you talking about saying that J2C was the best Jazz site ever? J2O destroys anything J2C could've hoped to be. You only think that because Jazz was in its prime in the JMMB days.

Yes, I do. The first topic I ever read was about 4 years ago and consisted of "Atmcdragon" or someone making storys about Spaztic getting pwnz0red by Pikachu.

Pitiful.

Anyway,
What I'd do for the for the old War Tavern storys.. *sigh*

Wait, wait, wait. Ninja dodo, it was closed like this, I think:

I was refreshing the main page one night and suddenly it says "Fatal error or something"

And is it just me, or was the JMMB more tolerant of stuff? I mean, not in a good way, just didn't edit as much stuff.

In fact, right before the JMMB was closed there was a thread about stuff you used to say when you were a kid or something and it had something pretty nasty in it that obviously was talking about the f-word.

There wasn't enough attention focused to properly administrating and moderating the JMMB which is one of the reasons why it was suddenly closed by the J2C staff. So you could say that more was allowed to be said there, but in the end because of that the JMMB was closed.

I remember. I was there. I started my first story there.

Ninja, what do you mean "What I'd do for the for the old War Tavern storys"? I'm still around ...

Que Passa!!!!

Originally posted by Ninja
Yes, I do. The first topic I ever read was about 4 years ago and consisted of "Atmcdragon" or someone making storys about Spaztic getting pwnz0red by Pikachu.

Pitiful.

Anyway,
What I'd do for the for the old War Tavern storys.. *sigh*

My retaliation stories were kind of cool, though...

/\/\

"Anybody ever tell you how cute your brother is?"
-Ms. Leleb talking to Jazz
Snooze and Mat Jazz Jackrabbit Amalgam.

Originally posted by LAb RaT kiD
J2O is like a new J2C, even better maybe.

*has a burning desire to flame*

J2C owns J2O. Id 'trade' anytime.

J2O > J2C

I'm sorry, but I have this strange addiction to the truth. Sometimes.

When the JMMB first started, the community as a whole was responsible enough to moderate themselves. That slowly changed as the community grew in size and in average age. Apparently, as you get older, the line between perverseness and hilarity gets a bit fuzzy. I still don't understand it.

Anyway, everyone's trying to compare J2C and J2O, so I figured I'd post my thoughts (which I know no one values). You can't compare the two. The goal of J2C was to be the best resource for Jazz2. It was. The goal of J2O was to replace J2C when it went down. It did.

Yay, I guess that means it's a tie. You can't compare two websites from two different eras. If J2O were introduced when J2C was still around, it would have been a flop. If J2C were introduced now, it would fail.

-Nag

I agree totally Onag.

OMG! Jazz2city was so much better than all existing jazz2 websites. IT HAD EVERYTHING! And the JMMB ruled because we were all really young at that time. Sorry that I dont sound very scientific like everyone else.

We'll forgive you, I'm sure ... how much will you pay me?

I agree with Onag... Nothing to add...
People who joined after J2C will say the same about J2O after a few years when J2O maybe died too...

Of course we care what you have to think or say Onag. :-)

And I *know* I couldn't have said it any better myself. J2C was the best Jazz site there was. J2O is the best site now. (though J2C would probably be a good archive, if I ever brought it online again.) Back when J2C was in its prime, nothing could compete. (in fact, we squished some sites that tried even.) But it hasn't been updated in years and therefore wouldn't be a good current resource anymore.

There were several reasons why it was shut down. First was that we (on more than one occasion) did have hosting problems with it. Our first host (frontiernet) only allowed 10 megs of space. Second host (mich.com) went under. And I believe the third host (actionxtreme.com) was bought out by gamespy or something like that. Anyway, we lost FTP access to the site, and couldn't contact anyone about it so we couldn't update it even if we wanted to, at the end. Then that, combined with all the flamewars at the JMMB towards the end caused both to be taken down at pretty much the same time. What good is an un-updated site with flamewar forums anyway? Not much, so it was closed. (actually, more like shut down. J2C wasn't updated, and the JMMB was closed. Our account was deleted shortly after that, and J2C hasn't been back up since)

There's also some stuff that bothers me about what the people said about the JMMB closing. And they are STILL spreading lies and half-truths to this day. Isn't that just sad?

Like the following: "I remember Dethman closed it down saying it was lacking in christian values and everybody should go home and read their bible..."

Dethman did believe that the JMMB was getting away from Christian values, but that's not why it was closed. And he said nothing about how everyone should go home and read their Bible. He also did not make the final call to close the JMMB, I did. I could have kept it open should I have chosen to do so. Dethman saw that we couldn't keep the JMMB moderated properly, and it was dragging down the moderators who did try to keep it running. And with J2C not being updated, he came to me and asked me if I would like to close the JMMB since it was getting out of hand. I agreed that it was and thought over the decision to close it. Eventually I decided that before there was no good left on the JMMB, that I would close it. I did it to stop the bleeding, if you will.

Yet people still continue to flame Dethman to this day over it even. Why though? It wasn't because of his decision that it closed. I guess it's because people like to point their finger at people they don't like and who have different ideas than themselves. People who like to say "Oh look, he's a Christian do-gooder. He took it down because we aren't Christians." when people completely miss the point that THEY SCREWED IT UP. Obviously I'm not talking about everyone here, there was still a lot of good people on the JMMB, but the bad eggs were causing too much trouble and were too hard to keep up with back in the day. But they seem to neglect that and would rather attack someone else's religion instead of looking to see where the deeper problem is.

As for why the JMMB started to go downhill... that was mostly because people didn't have time for it. I was in college and that had to come first before anything JMMB related, so over time my visits became less and less. It of course doesn't help when I'm the head guy there. The other admins who could visit every day were stretched to the limit. Ones like Cobra and Addie (if you read this, good job guys! err.. gals!) were doing all they could to keep up. From what I remember, Addie resigned because her school work demanded more of her time. And to Cobra, I believe her words were "It's just a job." (it was a long time ago, please correct me if I am wrong with this) So it was something that she did, but she didn't enjoy it. Good moderators were hard to find too. Everyone was begging to be a moderator, but you can't necessairly trust anyone who beggs for it. Just because someone is good at begging, it doesn't necessairly make them good at being a moderator. To top it off you had people like Slayer (sorry guy) who abused the system more than once. And people wondered why I didn't make him a moderator AFTER this fact. Go figure....

I guess I should stop now. This rant has gone on long enough. I just get defensive when people spread lies about the JMMB. Most of the people who complain, just like to complain with no background or justification for their complaints. So I'll end this by saying, give credit where credit is due. I closed the JMMB, so stop flaming Dethman. I'm the one who gave the final decision to close it. So if you flame someone, flame me instead.

Bring it on.

GO BRIAN!!!!!!! WHOOWHOOWHOO!

It was a job...a job that didn't pay. All of my time was going into it.

I do not know why Dethman gets so much flak for the decision. Judging by what I remember about the JCF, it was so active with so many personal attacks, moderating it would be a full-time job. It is not that it was getting away from Christian values (although, I am sure it was, as it was getting away from the values of sane living, despite my lack of knowledge in such areas as religion). It was that it was getting away from basic values of respect for others. Flaming was everywhere, and it generally was an unpleasent atmosphere to function in.

So I suppose that is what happened. No Bible stuff. No Christian values. No "too lazy to work on it." It was that the JMMB had deteriorated, whether we like it or not, into a mass of flames and things that you don't have to be religious (or ethical, for that matter) to realize are wrong. By any measure, and by any view of religion, ethics, or otherwise, the JMMB at the very end was a bad end of town, so to speak. Christian, athiest, or otherwise, anyone who disliked swearing, flaming, and disrespectful behavior in general realized that the JMMB was a mess. And a mess that could not easily be mended without an amount of effort no one was able, let alone willing, to make.

Sure, it may have been a huge disappointment and setback for Jazz 2 and the community surrounding it. But the decision was made by people who were only that - people. No one is perfect, and no difficult decision lacks a double edge. But, in retrospect, it may have been the best choice. Regardless, it was a choice made with the best of intentions.

And that is really all that should count.

The whole Dethman thing was played out and explained long ago in a Misc. topic. I'm suprised people still are blaming him.

And while I agree with Onag to a certain extent I still like J2O much much more than J2C. And despite the 'you can't compare them' stuff, it's more of a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by Ninja
And is it just me, or was the JMMB more tolerant of stuff? I mean, not in a good way, just didn't edit as much stuff.

Three words. Lack of Derby.

Or was Derby part of the JMMB too?

I was just wondering why it closed down in the whole beggining thing, so foring puting the whole thing up anyway.

jmmb went with jazz 2 city, it a was a golden age of jj2, but they both went eventually and thus j2online would begin eventually ;P

I somewhat agree with what Onag said. Also, thanks to Brian for shedding more light on the closure of the JMMB.

Originally posted by 4I Falcon
Three words. Lack of Derby.

Or was Derby part of the JMMB too?

I think Derby had an account there, but I don't think that he ever became an admin or even a mod. Oh My GeNe! Does this imply that if he were there, he could have made a big difference?

Originally posted by Lama
I somewhat agree with what Onag said. Also, thanks to Brian for shedding more light on the closure of the JMMB.



I think Derby had an account there, but I don't think that he ever became an admin or even a mod. Oh My GeNe! Does this imply that if he were there, he could have made a big difference?

Derby only makes a difference now because he is asked to; or rather, it's his "job" here as an admin. I bet if he was told he didn't need to anymore, but could continue if he wanted to, he'd choose to stop.

Orcs rules, humans drool.

I still don't get it, even after more than three years.

If YOU closed the board, Brian, why didn't YOU announce the closure in 2000. Noone knew you were responsible for that decision back then. I and many others only remember that one stupid last message by DethMan when the JMMB was closed, which obviously gave us, the community, the impression that it actually HAD something to do with "christian values". And that is not a lie, but all that were we able to see back then. Noone explained anything, noone knew the backgrounds, it was just down and gone all of a sudden.

I have still no idea what really happened. I can only guess that the "bad eggs", as you call it, posted "bad stuff" in Misc.
As for myself, i had very good discussions in General J2 Talk and the number of "bad eggs" wasn't higher than it is today, on this board.

My impression still is, that the closure of J2C and the JMMB was a pretty egocentric decision. Some people didn't want to lose control over "their" site or maybe they really didn't find others that could have helped. And it didn't seem the actors really wanted to keep it alive. And well, maybe, in retrospect, it was better for us (for a new start). Fquist does good work on this board and the J2O site (of course, all the people at J2C and the JMMB did good work most of the time, too :).

And P.S., if i sound too offensive, that may eventually be my bad english :)