I am going to try and wake everybody up with this message. We have a little rumor of JJ3 going around, although there hasn't been anything new recently that I know of. We need JJ3 to be a success for the future of Jazz to exist. But we still all think JJ3 should "keep the magic" of Jazz 1 and 2. Well, there are a few things that we need to "get real" about.

There is NO future in sidescrollers. That is a dead genre, especially on the PC. Jazz Jackrabbit 3 has got to be 3-dimensional. No company is going to make money with an old game in an old format. The only people who will actually buy the game is us in these forums if it is not 3-D, and there are what, 300 of us? Two hundred? JJ3 must attract new customers and the only way to do that is 3-D. It does make it harder to design levels, but that means no crap levels from lazy designers, because only people who want to put in time and effort will be able to complete a level.

Futhermore, it is going to be a shooter. People don't buy chess video games, and Jazz Jackrabbit has never been anything but a shooter. We can't change that. Shooters make money. All of the money. We say Unreal killed Jazz Jackrabbit. The only way to revive Jazz is to make it current, and currently, the popular games are those games. "If you can't beat em, join em." Of course, it would have to have little blood and gore, because Jazz is a children's game. You have green bunnies hopping around eating carrots. Not many adults are going to buy that, so it has to appeal to kids.

I had my first dose of first-person shooter a week ago in Time Splitter 2. I love it. So does everybody else. Now I'm not saying that Jazz has to be first-person, but I am suggesting it. It would be great if we could have "camera" options so players would be allowed to decide in-game where they want to see the action from, and nothing like Mario 64 where you can't move in first person and just look around, it must be possible to move in first person. I'm not sure if many other games let you switch from first person to third and vice versa, so we might have a bit of an edge there.

Jazz 3 must be released on the console. No doubt about it. Console gaming is way more popular than PC gaming. But it also must be released on the PC. It should be on GameCube, Play Station 2, and X-Box, but at least PS2, because it is the most common of the three, and I'm not just saying that because I have PS2, I have GCN and N64 and that's all.

We have to have console Internet capabilities, too, for PS2 and X-Box, and GameCube, if Nintendo decides to release it soon enough. PC gamers should have an advantage, because the PC should be the only one with the level editor. That way, Epic or whoever can have the PC price higher and say that consoles don't have enough disc space to hold JCS. The console game should also be able to connect to the game's official website to download levels and play them there, of course, so that it would sell.

Originally posted by KRSplat
I had my first dose of first-person shooter a week ago in Time Splitter 2. I love it. So does everybody else. Now I'm not saying that Jazz has to be first-person, but I am suggesting it. It would be great if we could have "camera" options so players would be allowed to decide in-game where they want to see the action from, and nothing like Mario 64 where you can't move in first person and just look around, it must be possible to move in first person. I'm not sure if many other games let you switch from first person to third and vice versa, so we might have a bit of an edge there.

I'd like it third-person default, with the option of first-person, thank you very much. ;P

Jazz 3 must be released on the console. No doubt about it. Console gaming is way more popular than PC gaming. But it also must be released on the PC. It should be on GameCube, Play Station 2, and X-Box, but at least PS2, because it is the most common of the three, and I'm not just saying that because I have PS2, I have GCN and N64 and that's all.

*cough cough* Console gaming is way more popular than PC gaming when cows grow pink spots and become taxi drivers. Epic games is unlikely to release on any console other than the Xbox - they have a relationship with Microsoft and the Xbox is the only console currently capable of running the latest Unreal engine (most likely to be used in a possible sequel). They could barely port the original UT engine to PS2, no way is a new-gen engine gonna make it. I want to see a new Jazz game on the PC: he was born a PC icon, he should still be a PC icon.

We have to have console Internet capabilities, too, for PS2 and X-Box, and GameCube, if Nintendo decides to release it soon enough. PC gamers should have an advantage, because the PC should be the only one with the level editor. That way, Epic or whoever can have the PC price higher and say that consoles don't have enough disc space to hold JCS. The console game should also be able to connect to the game's official website to download levels and play them there, of course, so that it would sell.

The PC will be the only one with an editor for a few reasons:
- Only the Xbox has a hard disk
- Hard to make 3D levels without a mouse
- No current console has the grunt to efficiently run a fullfledged, current generation 3D editor
The PC price will likely be cheaper than consoles, at least where I live (console games are a good $20 more expensive than PC games here). As for connecting to the official website to download levels and play them, only the Xbox has the capability.

I'd like it third-person default, with the option of first-person, thank you very much. ;P

Yes. Me too. That's what I said.

*cough cough* Console gaming is way more popular than PC gaming when cows grow pink spots and become taxi drivers. Epic games is unlikely to release on any console other than the Xbox - they have a relationship with Microsoft and the Xbox is the only console currently capable of running the latest Unreal engine (most likely to be used in a possible sequel). They could barely port the original UT engine to PS2, no way is a new-gen engine gonna make it. I want to see a new Jazz game on the PC: he was born a PC icon, he should still be a PC icon.

Console gaming is more popular than PC gaming. Any Jazz game has to be a PC game, but it should also be a console game. Otherwise it won't sell. Jazz was designed for a young audience and young audiences play consoles.

The PC price will likely be cheaper than consoles, at least where I live (console games are a good $20 more expensive than PC games here). As for connecting to the official website to download levels and play them, only the Xbox has the capability.

Yes. PS2 is no web browser. I know that. Xbox is BETTER than the other gaming systems. The game still has to be released on PS2, though. And PC games cost less than console games.

Anyway, there is no reason for Jazz 3 not to be revolutionary. It cannot be just a copy of everything else, because nobody will buy it. Face it, we're never going to beat out games like Unreal if Jazz doesn't have a feature advantage. I don't care if they have to wait until PS3 (which I have heard should be out by 2005) to make it. It just has to be better.

Besides, with technology, there is always a way.

I do not think side scrollers are dead. I just think people consider them dead, because hardly any high quality ones have been made the past two years. Developers don't realise it may be an oportunity.

What I think this game needed was strategy. That was one of the big problems with Jazz Jackrabbit one and two, and shouldn't be continued. Strategy is one of the components that make a game interesting and fun.

First person shooter is a good idea for it. Mainly people buy first person shooters like half life and timesplitters .

A green bunny with a carrot gun !

Originally posted by MR MAGOO
What I think this game needed was strategy. That was one of the big problems with Jazz Jackrabbit one and two, and shouldn't be continued. Strategy is one of the components that make a game interesting and fun.

What I meant was this can't be a puzzle game without any fighting whatsoever. I had a feeling that some people want this to be a three-year-old "educational" game. Maybe I just imagined that, though.

Jazzer X is in the works... This is not a rumor project we have a team and are working on it. FULL 3D. Anyways unfourtanitly it is not a Jazz Jackrabbit Game.. due to copyrights, maybe there might be a little secert bunny character?

Originally posted by KRSplat
What I meant was this can't be a puzzle game without any fighting whatsoever. I had a feeling that some people want this to be a three-year-old "educational" game. Maybe I just imagined that, though.

....well duh. Jazz is about blowing things up. ;P

Originally posted by KRSplat
There is NO future in side scrollers. That is a dead genre... Jazz Jackrabbit 3 has got to be 3-dimensional. It does make it harder to design levels, but that means no crap levels from lazy designers...

1. Why do people always think of side scrollers and 3D as mutually exclusive? 3D is a means of displaying graphics, not a genre. Any game (even tetris) can be done in 3D.
   
2. Side scrollers are dormant. There is no such thing as a dead genre.
   
3. Unfortunately, there will likely be multitudes more 'crap levels' (i.e. more bugs and less creativity) because of the difficulty of working in 3D.
   

Originally posted by KRSplat
Futhermore, it is going to be a shooter. People don't buy chess video games, and Jazz Jackrabbit has never been anything but a shooter. We can't change that. Shooters make money. All of the money. We say Unreal killed Jazz Jackrabbit. The only way to revive Jazz is to make it current, and currently, the popular games are those games. "If you can't beat em, join em." Of course, it would have to have little blood and gore, because Jazz is a children's game. You have green bunnies hopping around eating carrots. Not many adults are going to buy that, so it has to appeal to kids.

I agree. Jazz is a shooter, and straying from that would be a mistake. However, I disagree with basically everything else. Chess is a bad example, as it's a fairly simple game, and there are too many freeware or shareware versions available for anyone to have a need to buy it. But people who like puzzle games do in fact buy puzzle games.

Unreal didn't kill Jazz because it was a better game. Epic dropped the ball with Jazz because Unreal was easy money. Jazz2 failed because of poor marketing, not because it wasn't up to par. It was groundbreaking, and as far as I know, is still #1 in the genre.

You're right about it not being able to contain much violence. I would take it a step further to say that it can't contain any blood or gore. As you said, Jazz is marketed toward children. Children don't buy video games; their parents do. Parents don't like blood.

Originally posted by KRSplat
I had my first dose of first-person shooter a week ago in Time Splitter 2. I love it. So does everybody else. It would be great if we could have "camera" options so players would be allowed to decide in-game where they want to see the action from... I'm not sure if many other games let you switch from first person to third and vice versa, so we might have a bit of an edge there.

1. Everybody doesn't love first person shooters. The majority of gamers targeted by current marketing trends are, yes. That includes a vast minority of potential gamers, which includes everyone who owns or has access to a computer or console. If all the gaming market has to offer is first person shooters, of course only first person shooter fans will be involved in gaming. This is an industry-wide mental block.
   
2. I very much enjoy first person shooters. And real time strategy games. And puzzle games. And side scrollers. And action/adventure games. That's why we still have so many kinds of food available in the world; different people have different tastes.
   
3. The ability to choose your perspective is actually not a new idea. The reason it hasn't been successfully pulled off is because when you're making a first person game, you design levels for the first person perspective. When you make a third person game, you design levels for the third person perspective. Giving the player the ability to choose between these would take away from what the level designer intended. For the most part, perspectives are not interchangeable. I definitely think the game should support multiple perspectives, but not necessarily the option to choose between them.
   

Originally posted by KRSplat
Jazz 3 must be released on the console. No doubt about it. Console gaming is way more popular than PC gaming. But it also must be released on the PC.

Yes. Side scroller or not, Jazz could definitely benefit from a console release. I don't know the details of console popularity or specs, so I don't have any arguments here, but I would think the GameCube would be the most strategic release because of its appeal to younger gamers.

</rant>

That said, I think that any future Jazz games should be 3D/third person shooters. While there is plenty left to explore in side scrollers in general, I think Jazz is ready to make the jump.

I would like to see a Jazz2 addon/expansion, providing the ability to create/customize playing modes, and several other features, But I don't think these things would constitute a new game.

-Nag

Originally posted by Txl Kill
Jazzer X is in the works... This is not a rumor project we have a team and are working on it. FULL 3D. Anyways unfourtanitly it is not a Jazz Jackrabbit Game.. due to copyrights, maybe there might be a little secert bunny character?

*eeps!* Wow, I didn't expect you'd rant about it. Hehe, I saw that post there, and I thought, "Wow, where did that come from?", and then I saw who posted it. hehe.

Anyways, yeah, one of the character types will be rabbits, and I suppose if anyone customized their character right, they could make their character a green bunny wearing nothing but a red headband, and orange wristbands.

But anyways, the project is only in the design phaze right now.

The trouble with third person, is that it enables players to look around corners without actually moving their character to the corner, this kind of makes it hard to hide around a corner and wait for someone to pass by. The players would have an unfair advantage of looking around a corner without being exposed.

oh wait... maybe it just brings hiding around a corner to a new dimension? hehe, yeah use the corner trick!

...but it is such a cheap move.

Hare, if you have a proper camera set-up you can pretty much make that tactic pointless. Plus Jazz is a fast-paced game, I'm sure it wouldn't help much considering how fast things'd be moving.

Onag, I agree. Jazz is the number-one sidescroller, but basically every major thing to be accomplisehd in 2D has been done. It is ready to make the jump to 3D.

Jazz in 3D would be great. There is nothing wrong with 2D, of course. I love 2D as much as 3D. I don't see why they have to be contrasting. I don't think 3D is a step up from 2D, but unfortunatly people seem to think of it that way. Jazz2 is a kind of 3D. You've got the basic X and Y, but there are multiple layers. The only problem is that you cannot move in those layers, they are just there to look good =P

Anyway, things are just going 3D. It's the way it is, and since people are biased against 2D, the only way to gain a larger audience is to change market strategies so that it appeals to 3D gamers.

You can't say Jazz is just a childrens game. It stars a bunny, but how many other 3D shooters starred animals or aliens? Plenty, and not all of them are kid games. Jazz is edgier, methinks. Jazz2 kind of lost that edge because it was much too cartoony in spots. I don't think blood and gore is the way to go with Jazz, but you never know. Though if there is blood, there should be an option to disable it since it isn't really necessary. At all.

imho Jazz3 should be a mix of action, strategy, and rpg. It should be a lot of action with a blend of puzzles/strategy added in to make it less monotonous and it should follow an interesting storyline closely and the three should be actively involved.

Why do people always think of side scrollers and 3D as mutually exclusive? 3D is a means of displaying graphics, not a genre. Any game (even tetris) can be done in 3D.

When I say 3D, I do not mean graphics, I mean a three-dimensional enviroment in which you can move in the directions we can move in real life.

Unreal didn't kill Jazz because it was a better game. Epic dropped the ball with Jazz because Unreal was easy money. Jazz2 failed because of poor marketing, not because it wasn't up to par. It was groundbreaking, and as far as I know, is still #1 in the genre.

Unreal is a more fun game to play for the majority of gamers that Jazz2.

Everybody doesn't love first person shooters. The majority of gamers targeted by current marketing trends are, yes. That includes a vast minority of potential gamers, which includes everyone who owns or has access to a computer or console. If all the gaming market has to offer is first person shooters, of course only first person shooter fans will be involved in gaming. This is an industry-wide mental block.

I very much enjoy first person shooters. And real time strategy games. And puzzle games. And side scrollers. And action/adventure games. That's why we still have so many kinds of food available in the world; different people have different tastes.

The majority of gamers love first person shooters.

The ability to choose your perspective is actually not a new idea. The reason it hasn't been successfully pulled off is because when you're making a first person game, you design levels for the first person perspective. When you make a third person game, you design levels for the third person perspective. Giving the player the ability to choose between these would take away from what the level designer intended. For the most part, perspectives are not interchangeable. I definitely think the game should support multiple perspectives, but not necessarily the option to choose between them.

That's my point. If Jazz3 is able to pull my suggestion off, we would have an advantage over competition.

I don't know the details of console popularity or specs, so I don't have any arguments here, but I would think the GameCube would be the most strategic release because of its appeal to younger gamers.

PlayStation 2 is just as popular with younger gamers as GameCube is, and is more popular with older gamers. GCN just has a "kiddie system" tag on it because of the earliest releases like Super Monkey Ball and Pikmin that seem to be younger games. Furthermore, Jazz needs to have an appeal to older gamers, because there are more 10+ gamers than under 10.

And it should be first person to help player's visual analyzation skills.

Jazz should stay 2D. Nuff said.

No, it should not. Jazz can no longer expand in the graphics/physics format it is in now. All it would be is JJ2 v1.25, only with different levels.

Originally posted by KRSplat
No, it should not. Jazz can no longer expand in the graphics/physics format it is in now. All it would be is JJ2 v1.25, only with different levels.

All Jazz 3D would be, would be the next Mario64/Croc/Rayman2 clone.

That would be better than what it is now. And I'm trying to say that Jazz3 cannot be just another Mario 64 clone. It has to be better than that.

Originally posted by KRSplat
That would be better than what it is now. And I'm trying to say that Jazz3 cannot be just another Mario 64 clone. It has to be better than that.

I don't think Jazz2 would ever have been as much fun if it would have been made in 3D. You would probably just have thrown it into your dusty socks drawer after two months. Time splitters brainwashed you. Period.

Originally posted by Newspaz
Jazz should stay 2D. Nuff said.

What an excellent idea for a flop. A game should not fail for such a reason as not keeping to the current standard. As such, I would not trust Nuff's advice if I were you.

2D? Don't be rediculous. 2D games look outdated... well, 'cause they are. Let me get something straightened up here. First of all, a sidescroller can still be in 3D. 3D models have more capabilites, and dimension, than sprites. Would you rather have a cardboard cutout of something you like, or an actual model of it? Simple, right? Again, sidescrollers are still very very possible in 3D, really, the character doesn't even have to move in the third dimension at all, and the graphics can still be 3D. Also, if it is the art style you like, that can be remade in 3D, too.

Oh, and don't let last years 3D games make up your mind on what 3D is like.

Newspaz, if there is a new Jazz game, it will be 3D. Nobody is going to support a 2D game. The unfinished Jazz was in 3D. Epic games specialises in 3D. It will be 3D.

A durrr.

I'm as certain a new JJ game is in production for the PC as I am that a new Fallout game is in production for the PC (See sig. Section of concept art for a game matching the characters F and 3. Fallout 3 anyone?)

I don't think Jazz2 would ever have been as much fun if it would have been made in 3D. You would probably just have thrown it into your dusty socks drawer after two months. Time splitters brainwashed you. Period.

I am not talking about Jazz2. I am talking about Jazz3. Jazz2 was designed for 2D, and 2D was still alive back then. Now, most games are being made for 3D. Nobody will buy a 2D action game anymore.

And I am NOT talking about 3D graphics, I am talking about 3D physics, a world in which you can move up, down, forward, backward, left, and right.

And stop with this Time Splitters crap. It's just that I played it and from that experience I enjoy the first person view, just as a majority of other gamers do.

I must not have made this point clear in the previous post, so I'll give it another go.

Several people keep mentioning the "majority of gamers" and "current market trends" behind their reasoning.

Of the people you know in school/work/whatever, how many would you say are "gamers"? I would estimate a lot less, but we'll be generous and say 5%.

Given: 5% of the population play games regularly.

Given: 95% of the games on the market are first person shooters.

We can draw one of two conclusions from this information.

Idiot's Conclusion (i.e. Popular Belief): Only 5% of the people in the world enjoy playing any type of game. Only 5% of those people enjoy playing anything other than first person shooters.

Apparently Not So Obvious Truth: Only 5% of the world enjoys playing games because only first person shooters are available to them. If more games are made available, more people will play games.

-----

Just think about it for a bit. And don't argue numbers. I'm not interested in debating. All I'm saying is that there is a much greater potential for the games industry if publishers would take a minute to think.

-Nag

By the way, it is being rumoured that Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Has bought Lost Boys Games. Which measns that they will probably be only producing PS2 games from now on. And that means, no Arjan, no Michiel for JJ3.

The PC will be the only one with an editor for a few reasons:
- Only the Xbox has a hard disk
- Hard to make 3D levels without a mouse
- No current console has the grunt to efficiently run a fullfledged, current generation 3D editor
The PC price will likely be cheaper than consoles, at least where I live (console games are a good $20 more expensive than PC games here). As for connecting to the official website to download levels and play them, only the Xbox has the capability. [/B][/QUOTE]

If we could develop this, we could replace one of the memory card slots on any system (Except for X-Box) make sort of a hard drive, I think gamecube is getting one, but im not sure, gamecube has internet (Phantasy star online) it also has a key board for Phantasy star online, all we need is a mouse, which playstation 2 has I think, or was that dreamcast, whatever if it was ps2 then we could connec t that with the new PS2 2 Gamecube controller addon (Just centering it on a console sort of meant for kiddie games)

Also, it would be cool if Jazz was 3D but stil a side scroller like Megaman X7 but when you like went into a room or stuff it would be into sort of a 3 deimenstional
area

Originally posted by Eeveejt
Also, it would be cool if Jazz was 3D but stil a side scroller like Megaman X7 but when you like went into a room or stuff it would be into sort of a 3 deimenstional
area

[i]Given: 5% of the population play games regularly.

Given: 95% of the games on the market are first person shooters.
[/B]

These are exadurations. Maybe more like 35% and 25%. Sorry. And we are talking about 11-30 year olds here, very little people above 30 would consider buying a game based on little bunnies and big guns.

(normally, I would honor your last stagement, but in this case this makes your point invalid.)

I'm sorry, but the audience we are talking about prefers the shoot-em-up genre.

Well, if it is first person jazz I aint buy'n it

Whether or not you buy a Jazz3 is unimportant in general to the monetary success of the game.

Interesting that Cliffy B. said platformers are a dead genre, but at the same time, PSM magazine is talking about a lot of platformers for the PS2

That is what Cliffy B. said, right? Shame if platformers went dead, 'cause that is my favorite game type.

Some kid: "Oh, a game called Jazz Jackrabbit 3! Well, that looks interesting.." *looks at the back of the box* "Oh, it's 2D.. well, my big s00ped up computer with the GeForce 4 is too good for this peice of junk. Ohhh.. what's this? A 3D first-person shooter.. now THAT's a buy!"

Err... realistically.

Uh, I don't understand what you were trying to say with that, Magoo.

Originally posted by KRSplat
...We are talking about 11-30 year olds here, very little people above 30 would consider buying a game based on little bunnies and big guns.

I'm sorry, but the audience we are talking about prefers the shoot-em-up genre.

What exactly are you talking about here? Jazz2 was designed with kids around 6-12 in mind. What is your argument? You want Jazz3D to be aimed at older players? Why?

-Nag

I think it would be a nice idea, just as long as Jazz doesn't get all bloody and filled with scary breastesses.

I think JJ should go back to his JJ1 design, and if ya read the JJ1 comic, you can see it wasn't really targeted too much at kids.