JJ2+ (Updated June 30, 2010)

[Violet CLM]

Or just general changes that would make everyone's lives easier, like getting layer 8 to move when not textured.

[EvilMike]

That would probably mess up the layer 8 in a ton of levels though. There would need to be some sort of flag to enable that.

[Violet CLM]

Layer 8 has default x and y speeds of 0, so if someone has changed them, it's because they wanted the layer to move. I'm pretty sure battle1's background was meant to look like battle3's. If a flag is necessary, though, the stars checkbox would work well, because it doesn't do anything if there's no textured background.

[Stijn]

There's plenty of room in the J2T file to add another checkbox, instead of overloading existing options.

[blurredd]

I would probably want a single checkbox that fixes all common level problems including the textured background x and y speeds being controlled by layer 5. Though a JCS+ would help...

[TechnoPauluz]

Just an Idea that can be done?:

If a player got sugar rush a Flickering "S" or a Flickering "R" is added periodly to his name. That would be great for my superfrogging gamemode!!!O+ :rolleyes: and sure for other thingies ;)

Even coowler is a fast color changing skin or name or AURA!! when having sugar rush. :D

[Black Ninja]

Just an Idea that can be done?:

If a player got sugar rush a Flickering "S" or a Flickering "R" is added periodly to his name. That would be great for my superfrogging gamemode!!!O+ :rolleyes: and sure for other thingies ;)

Even coowler is a fast color changing skin or name or AURA!! when having sugar rush. :D

Even though this post made Noah Webster turn over in his grave, I have to admit that having some form of indicator as to who has a sugar rush would be pretty cool. Not necessarily very useful, but cool.

[Cpp]

A visual effect would be much preferred over a cheap name/text effect. I would personally attach some existing lightning effects to the player sprite.

[Jerrythabest]

Attach an alarm sound to the player ;)

MEEP! MEEP! MEEP! DEATH APPROACHING! :P

[Troglobite]

Attach an alarm sound to the player ;)

MEEP! MEEP! MEEP! DEATH APPROACHING! :P

I think this should happen when people fall into a pit, seeing as that's a more certain death than someone with a sugar rush.

[Grytolle]

Could the lost flag and captured flag messages be reinstated as they were? or atleast in some way become easier to see? I've been trying to get used to the old colors for weeks now, but I just can't.. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who found the change quite bad in this aspect :(

[EvilMike]

I think that would be a good user option actually (like wallclimbing on/off). I personally like how the capture messages are set apart from kill messages, but I can see how other people might not like that.

On that topic, I've also thought that maybe the colouring would work a bit better if it was tweaked a little. Basically right now, stuff to do with the blue flag appears in blue, stuff to do with the red flag appears in red. That's fine, but what if it was made so stuff that was good for the blue team was in blue, and stuff good for the red team was in red? For example, if I'm red:

I capture the blue flag (message appears in red).
I lose the blue flag (message appears in blue).
I score a point (message appears in red).
Enemy loses the red flag (message appears in red).

The reason for this is it would probably make the stuff a bit easier to "track", because if you see a message in the opposite colour of your team then you know it's something bad.


Here's another random idea: what if the captured/lost the flag/scored messages appeared in yellow (instead of red) and turquoise (instead of blue)? Those colours are fairly "similar" to red and blue, and that would make them REALLY easy to see, and they are obviously the most important messages of the game. That might be going a bit overboard, I don't know. It would definitely make them stand out from chat.


You could even combine the two suggestions for extreme change! Of course, that's what user options are better for...

[Grytolle]

Sounds good, and yeah this would be where scripting your own output would be nice!

[Cpp]

TBH, I think that console messages (joins, leaves, captures, deaths, bans, etc) and the chat should be separated, but that's only my daydreaming. The whole 640*480 jj2 resolution doesn't offer much more room for HUD improvements.

[TechnoPauluz]

A visual effect would be much preferred over a cheap name/text effect. I would personally attach some existing lightning effects to the player sprite.

That is an nice option! Now u don't need edited the sprites to much, only adding white sprites to the sprites of Jazz, Spaz, Lori, Birdie and Frog:p

The scripting part would be harder I gues:eek::-)

[Ragnarok!]

On that topic, I've also thought that maybe the colouring would work a bit better if it was tweaked a little. Basically right now, stuff to do with the blue flag appears in blue, stuff to do with the red flag appears in red. That's fine, but what if it was made so stuff that was good for the blue team was in blue, and stuff good for the red team was in red? For example, if I'm red:

I capture the blue flag (message appears in red).
I lose the blue flag (message appears in blue).
I score a point (message appears in red).
Enemy loses the red flag (message appears in red).

The reason for this is it would probably make the stuff a bit easier to "track", because if you see a message in the opposite colour of your team then you know it's something bad.

I suggested this before! >O [but yeah I heavily back this]

[Jerrythabest]

On that topic, I've also thought that maybe the colouring would work a bit better if it was tweaked a little. Basically right now, stuff to do with the blue flag appears in blue, stuff to do with the red flag appears in red. That's fine, but what if it was made so stuff that was good for the blue team was in blue, and stuff good for the red team was in red? For example, if I'm red:

I capture the blue flag (message appears in red).
I lose the blue flag (message appears in blue).
I score a point (message appears in red).
Enemy loses the red flag (message appears in red).

The reason for this is it would probably make the stuff a bit easier to "track", because if you see a message in the opposite colour of your team then you know it's something bad.Yes! Agreed.

[Slaz]

I never got used to the 'player lost flag' messages. But I've been very inactive in JJ2 lately so don't worry about my opinion. :p

[Tobi]

I can't isntall JJ+ to TSF, is that right? (Version of JJ2 not supported)

[Tobi]

Quit using the LK Avalon version.

Ok, that's it ;) Thank you.

[djazz]

Hey BlurredD

My JJ2 bot is now able to read out almost all plus-packets, but I don't know if they really are plus packets or normal JJ-packets. Examples are packets 68, 69 and 71.
I can receive spectate and such, but only if a player enable/disable it when bot has already joined. How to find out what players spectate on start?

[Grytolle]

JJr-> Alles über Jazz Jackrabbit | JJr-> All about Jazz Jackrabbit (inactive)Change to Jazz Jackrabbit über alles? :- D

[arjandevries]

Will it be possible to let boss events not be at the ending of the level? That the same level would continue afterwards?

[EvilMike]

Will it be possible to let boss events not be at the ending of the level? That the same level would continue afterwards?

The issue with this is there would need to be some new flag added to boss events... otherwise it would break backward compatability with every other level that has a boss. Also, how would this work? The boss activates, you kill it... and then what? If the level doesn't end, does the player just move to the next area? In that case, can't they just run past the boss entirely? I can see one use for this: having a boss fight where you have to kill a man boss (say devan shell) and he's backed up by other bosses, which can be killed but don't end the fight.

Other than that, it wouldn't really do much. Maybe if the boss event was tied to a trigger somehow, and when it dies the trigger is activated? That would at least force the player to fight.

[Jerrythabest]

Bosses are offline play related. To improve chances of implementation I add the following:


Allow bosses and other enemies online.

:rolleyes:

[Varkarrus]

One question: How do I use commands?

I am probably a super-noob, but I looked through the plus-readme. I kinda want to use pestilence and last rabbit standing.

[EvilMike]

One question: How do I use commands?

I am probably a super-noob, but I looked through the plus-readme. I kinda want to use pestilence and last rabbit standing.

Host a server and type them in chat.

[Violet CLM]

Bosses have plenty of room in their bitfields... I could see a Trigger field, and if it's non-zero killing it activates that trigger instead of ending the level. Like most any other game. (Or there could be an additional bit used for a Miniboss flag and THEN the 0-31 trigger, but that's silly, and trigger zone already doesn't work with 0, so I don't think people would mind too much.) I think this would make for a lot of really interesting design possibilities, but I'm biased towards anything JJ2+ could do that would benefit single player, so...

[DoubleGJ]

Personally I think the way Mike did it with a boss in The Resistance is just fine. That suggestion is really just a cosmetic fix.

[CrimiClown]

Personally I think the way Mike did it with a boss in The Resistance is just fine. That suggestion is really just a cosmetic fix.

What, you mean that frog-drop, the Bilsy fight and then the next level? Yeah, sure, that works just fine. It even gives you the opportunity to have a music change, seeing as JJ2's singleplayer scene won't see much Plus features in the nearby future.

[EvilMike]

What, you mean that frog-drop, the Bilsy fight and then the next level? Yeah, sure, that works just fine. It even gives you the opportunity to have a music change, seeing as JJ2's singleplayer scene won't see much Plus features in the nearby future.

I actually used that technique twice in that episode... and I would have rather found a way to not force a level change, at least for the 2nd boss fight (in the ruined city). I find the way the level ends and starts in the same place to be a bit sloppy. It works ok for the bilsy boss level though because there's a little conversation after you beat him.

[Troglobite]

Plus should prevent flying on levels with no Air boards/Fly carrots. Although I don't think this cheat is used very often.

[WadlCury]

A possible JJ2+ feature called "Mass Trigger" fell into my head.
Here it is:

http://falcury.acugordijn.nl/jazz/masstrigger.png

Of course, "Area ID" could be any unused event instead. I have no idea whether this is actually possible or not. I imagine that it would at least be desirable to make the participating 4x1 data blocks "unique" in JCS, e.g. by creating some single frame animations.

I like this idea because:

- It would allow for great versatility within a level without dozens of cumbersome animations and trigger scenery events.
- It would probably work on flipped and animating tiles.
- An extra property in the event could specify a layer number, allowing for (mass) triggers on layers other than 4.

I have some more ideas, but I'm too sleepy to reproduce them right now.

[Jerrythabest]

Oh, nice! :D I like that idea.

[arjandevries]

Is it also possible to add that music changes after you get to a certain point in a level?

[Jerrythabest]

Lol, that was my idea :p

See, blur, we want it :)

[Slaz]

There already is a 'changemusic' command so implementing it to an event wouldn't be too hard I guess..

[DoubleGJ]

I'm waiting eagerly for a fix that will make boss music work again. Maybe the way it's repaired could be somehow connected with the above. Maybe that could even improve it.

[FawFul]

in other words.. the ultimate boss system would be that it activates triggers (after dieing) instead of ending a level. i mean atleast being able to do that.. and choosing your own music for in the boss music field.. or that the music doesn't change at all. also the music switch would be fine.. the problem is making it giong smooth from pattern to pattern of the music is pretty annoying to build.

[cooba]

http://falcury.acugordijn.nl/jazz/masstrigger.pngIs it also possible to add that music changes after you get to a certain point in a level?in other words.. the ultimate boss system would be that it activates triggers (after dieing) instead of ending a level. i mean atleast being able to do that.. and choosing your own music for in the boss music field.. or that the music doesn't change at allWell... I don't know if I am allowed to disclose, and this will come a long way before it's done, but expect something amazing to come, eventually.

[Cpp]

You mean something like:

void OnGameTick() {
...

if ((player[0].x > 40 && player[0].x < 50) && (player[0].y > 25 && player[0].y < 30)) {
if (music.filename != "cooba.mp3") music.play("cooba.mp3");
}

...
}

When player enters the zone [[40,25][50,30]], a new music starts to play. Although I'm guessing that the whole thing would be better off using an object oriented approach.

[cooba]

In a more practical use:
void OnGameTick()
{
...

if (player[0].x == 25 && (player[0].y == 25) //once the player crosses [25,25]...
{
if (music.filename != "cooba.mp3")
music.filename = "cooba.mp3"; //...the music will change...
music.play("cooba.mp3"); //...and begin playing
}
...
}

[Cpp]

Hehe, I could point out a few bugs in that code e.g. music.play("filename.ogg"); automatically sets the music.filename to "filename.ogg" so no need to set it manually. Here's a better OOP approach (just a concept):

class MusicTrigger : public Trigger (string music_filename, int tile_x, int tile_y) {
.....code...
virtual void Tick() {
int pl = GetLocalPlayer();
if (player[pl].x == this.x && player[pl].y == this.y) {
if (music.filename != music_filename) {
music.Play(music_filename);
}
}
}
...code...
... constructor, destructor code...
};

MusicTrigger muse1("cooba.mp3", 25, 25);

EDIT: The best part of this OOP approach is that players don't have to write their own code, they can simply declare existing classes and pass parameters along just like placing events in JCS.

[EvilMike]

The OOP approach is definitely the best one... it does seem more complicated at first, but in the end it makes the most sense, and the code is a lot more readable too.

Though personally I'd write that class so it allows you to define a range of tiles and not just an individual tiles, because that way you could have it take any shape (a single tile, a rectangle, or a line). Would need 2 sets of x,y coordinates for that (instead of just 1), but it would be more flexible, and therefore more usable. By not just limiting it to a single tile, you can have it so when the player passes a certain mark (say, enters a room) the music changes. Otherwise, with the example above, you'd need to spam a whole bunch of MusicTriggers, one for each tile. This might make sense to people who are thinking in a JCS mindset (where you often have to spam tiles like this), but in a script there's really no point in doing that.

I'm too lazy to bother rewriting it as an example but you get the idea!

[Jerrythabest]

Now that we are somehow jumping to the subject of computer code...

Some random piece of code that is probably valid in about 70% of programming languages.
if(false){
//Releae 1.25 patch in 5 seconds
ReleaseOneDotTwentyFivePatchIn(5000); //in ms
}
else{
Download("Lori pictures");
}

(Also valid IRL)

[Cpp]

For the OOP approach I'm basically following the unrealscript-style of coding. What you have here is a set of existing classes that each does its own job. Now in order to use the scripting language all you have to do is place instances of the classes, initialize them with appropriate parameters, and let the existing code do the job. This is certainly better as users can focus on script usage rather than script design e.g. having to write their own code from the bottom up and then be stalled by a number of bugs present in their scripts.

[Falcury]

For the OOP approach I'm basically following the unrealscript-style of coding. What you have here is a set of existing classes that each does its own job. Now in order to use the scripting language all you have to do is place instances of the classes, initialize them with appropriate parameters, and let the existing code do the job. This is certainly better as users can focus on script usage rather than script design e.g. having to write their own code from the bottom up and then be stalled by a number of bugs present in their scripts.

I am looking forward to this sooo much.

[arjandevries]

Well... I don't know if I am allowed to disclose, and this will come a long way before it's done, but expect something amazing to come, eventually.

That's wonderful news. That may even inspire me to create levels. I have some great ideas but I doubt I have the talents for it.

[DoubleGJ]

Truth be told, tools don't make up for skills all that well. But it's best to have both, of course.

[EvilMike]

Skills can only take you too far before you get bored. I've made so many levels that I feel like anything I make now will just be treading on old ground. Pointless, in other words. I'd rather quit while I'm ahead. That's why I don't make new CTF levels, and why I don't think I'll make any new SP levels without some new tools.

I'm still interested in game design as a hobby but for me now, the option is basically either make my own game (art will be a problem, but I'll manage) or have a whole set of new options available with JJ2. At the moment I think the former has a higher chance of happening, but we'll see.

[Dermo]

I think the laser gun is a dumb and horrible idea to my interests and should actually be modified to become a revolver or some type. Put that in the next update.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/BadBunny.gif

Make him look like that.

[DanZeal]

Make the level download also contain the music.
Maybe a bad and laggy idea.

[Ragnarok!]

A possible suggestion: Add a command that allows you to change the amount of food needed for obtaining sugar rush? Could be fun/handy.

Possibly allow sugar rush to have immunity in an on/off setting too like it does in SP?

[TechnoPauluz]

A possible suggestion: Add a command that allows you to change the amount of food needed for obtaining sugar rush? Could be fun/handy.

Possibly allow sugar rush to have immunity in an on/off setting too like it does in SP?

WTF can u read my mind? :p I was just working this out in word before I did read your post hahaha!

Anyway I 100% support that Idea!

Here is a picture of what was on my mind:p
If that would be done... WOOOT :D
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr354/peterdejas3/sugarrushideeen.jpg

[Dermo]

...No.

[Ragnarok!]

...No.

Dude, please just get lost, and remove yourself from the face of the internet. Many people on JCF have a problem with you, not only because you're an idiot, but you're just blatantly rude.

Above, is a clear example, the dude who posted clearly put in a lot of effort, and while some ideas stated may seem silly, you have to be a moron about it, but I guess that's in your nature. You're just an idiot aren't you?

What else? Since you're a fool, you enjoy posting on JCF to discourage others? Every post I've seen from you has always been annoying to one person or the other, and you're of no help to the J2O community. You don't even play the game, and if you do, you're probably crap at it. Not that this matters, the real subject is that you're a brain-dead moron.

I'm eager to see your stupid response to this too, because you're clearly a piece of (-)(-)(-)(-) that noone likes. I think people can back me up when I say, you really need to learn when to shut the (-)(-)(-)(-) up.

[cooba]

I think the laser gun is a dumb and horrible idea to my interests and should actually be modified to become a revolver or some type. Put that in the next update.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/drmooismyname/BadBunny.gif

Make him look like that....No.a rant full of win...Yes.

[Sonyk]

Besides, TechnoPauluz's idea is actually pretty good, even if the image is a little hacked together. Seeing when other people have a sugar rush if they have invincibility on would only be fair, and effects like glowing (though probably hard to implement) would be pretty neat and useful.

[Dermo]

Dude, please just get lost, and remove yourself from the face of the internet. Many people on JCF have a problem with you, not only because you're an idiot, but you're just blatantly rude.

Above, is a clear example, the dude who posted clearly put in a lot of effort, and while some ideas stated may seem silly, you have to be a moron about it, but I guess that's in your nature. You're just an idiot aren't you?

What else? Since you're a fool, you enjoy posting on JCF to discourage others? Every post I've seen from you has always been annoying to one person or the other, and you're of no help to the J2O community. You don't even play the game, and if you do, you're probably crap at it. Not that this matters, the real subject is that you're a brain-dead moron.

I'm eager to see your stupid response to this too, because you're clearly a piece of (-)(-)(-)(-) that noone likes. I think people can back me up when I say, you really need to learn when to shut the (-)(-)(-)(-) up.

lol

[TechnoPauluz]

lol

Dermo, you can better go buy some lolly's and go play outside in the sandbox with your little friends. O+

But anyway... good to see that there are other well thinking people that like the idea!

[Dermo]

Ok I admit I should've given further explanation as to why I was against that idea. And I do have my reasons. Either way, I was laughing so hard when I saw Hunter's post. I like a challenge. So let us blow this way up. Way, way, way up.

[Troglobite]

Man. I came back from vacation and saw that there were new posts about JJ2+ and hoped to see new interesting ideas about the future of Jazz.

But no, it's actually a flamewar.

I'm disappointed in you all.

[Stijn]

Grytolle made something very much like that, it's never been integrated into jj2+ for whatever reason though.

[Grytolle]

it was gry-style coding: working but unstable

it'd require quite some effort to bugfix and integrate it in jj2+, so blur is postponing it!

...also I dont remember any sorting functions

[Black Ninja]

That's actually a fair idea. I'd support the adding of something like that (or similar) in JJ2+.

I can't quite condone Rag's massive post of flaming pwnage, but seriously Dermo... you have saddened me. Have a video (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543), and realize that it's talking about you. Except you're not funny.

[Warning: Video contains adult language]

[TechnoPauluz]

Have a video (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543),

Great reaction I loved the video O+!:rolleyes:

[Dermo]

That's actually a fair idea. I'd support the adding of something like that (or similar) in JJ2+.

I can't quite condone Rag's massive post of flaming pwnage, but seriously Dermo... you have saddened me. Have a video (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543), and realize that it's talking about you. Except you're not funny.

[Warning: Video contains adult language]

video was funny. I must say though :( sorry BN. I don't even think I realize when I'm doing it. My earlier posts...duh I was around 12 when I started posting here.

But I like how one person voices an opinion and everybody who has been pretty laid back before all of the suddenly agrees with it. That's quite sheepish of the community.

With that, I would like to state that the reason I don't like the idea is because a flashing name would get quite annoying. I hate it when people mess with my name on a server because it's a destruction of originality and creativity.

[djazz]

Really? Can I have more information?

Of course you can! Is an example enough?
Just check out the Games In Progress list (http://jazzjackrabbit.net/fur/si/) i and Grytolle made.
I implented the sorting by name/private/version/gamemode/players/uptime feature a time ago to it, the ping got no sorting because it's dynamic.
You can also press my signature image to find the GIP.
Hope you like it! ;)

[cooba]

I hate it when people mess with my name on a server because it's a destruction of originality and creativityDR MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Jerrythabest]

Aside from the 80% CPU usage (pretty fast, but no dual core CPU here) it's pretty darn fantastic indeed. Imagine this inside JJ2 (which uses 100% CPU anyway) :D


...effects like glowing (though probably hard to implement) would be pretty neat and useful.
Seeing as how the 1up glows very shiny, I think this could possibly be easier to implement than you would think at first.

[TechnoPauluz]

Hope you like it!

It looks great indeed but but something I saw inmediatly is that the uptimebox is a bit to small when servers are running a long time. Look at the picture to see what I mean.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr354/peterdejas3/untitled.jpg

Seeing as how the 1up glows very shiny, I think this could possibly be easier to implement than you would think at first.

If that can be succesful used to give an sugar rush indication that would be great!

[djazz]

It looks great indeed but but something I saw inmediatly is that the uptimebox is a bit to small when servers are running a long time.

It's on my todo list! :-)
EDIT: updated


It would also be nice if you could see who is spectator (JJ2+), but it's impossible with this code

[Jerrythabest]

Hmmm... it appears to me the CPU usage of that GiP script could be reduced significantly if all those timers (2 per server plus one for the refresh if I'm correct... that makes 17 at the moment) were merged into just one that calls 3 functions:
-one to reduce the refresh timer (and perform the refresh at -1 of course)
-one to loop through the servers and increase their uptimes with one second
-one to loop through the servers to ping them

Which, I admit, isn't a simple, but still a very easy-to-perform change in the JS code as you've got all the functional code already there.



Anyway, this thread is about JJ2+, so I'll shut up about this here... fortunately vBulletin has a PM feature.


One final note: as I've stated in numerous threads already, the JJ2 GiP list could definitely use a complete overhaul, preferably with co-operation of the listservers.



EDIT:
And why would you loop twice through the servers? You could even merge the last two points on my list into one =D

[Stijn]

One final note: as I've stated in numerous threads already, the JJ2 GiP list could definitely use a complete overhaul, preferably with co-operation of the listservers.
And as <em>I</em> have stated numerous times, this is on the todo list and currently work in progress.

[djazz]

Hmmm... it appears to me the CPU usage of that GiP script could be reduced significantly if all those timers (2 per server plus one for the refresh if I'm correct... that makes 17 at the moment) were merged into just one that calls 3 functions:
-one to reduce the refresh timer (and perform the refresh at -1 of course)
-one to loop through the servers and increase their uptimes with one second
-one to loop through the servers to ping them

Which, I admit, isn't a simple, but still a very easy-to-perform change in the JS code as you've got all the functional code already there.


Good idea, I put it on todo


One final note: as I've stated in numerous threads already, the JJ2 GiP list could definitely use a complete overhaul, preferably with co-operation of the listservers.

You mean, that the GiP lists should be combined or work together, and that the programmers should work together to one complete GiP? or am I completely wrong?

[Jerrythabest]

...Also, as most community members have already switched to Plus, I think that a cooperation with the list server shouldn't be impossible. It's clearly stated <a href="http://digiex.net/news-information/171-jazz-jackrabbit-2-list-server-network.html">here</a> that custom game modes could possibly be supported by the listserver and now that we finally have them semi-implemented into JJ2 it might be the time to implement them into the lists too. No more "unknown", just 'clear' (or at least more to-the-point) things like "Race" "Co-op" "LRS" "Pestilence" "XLRS" "RT" "DCTF" "JB" "FR" "GF" <!-- and even --> "Hotel". Of course clearer names are fine too. It's just not fair to call GroundForce a Treasure Hunt game D:

For more event ideas, just put a PM in my inbox (causing a mail in my mailbox which in turn causes a popup on my monitor) and I'll get my RRR concept ideas to see what kind of events my brains have produced in the past.

That's pretty much the main idea. Only the link in this quote appears to be no longer publicly available.



And it's very good to hear they're working on it :)

[Troglobite]

I've noticed that when a player is swapped to a different team after passing a trigger zone, the trigger can stay open for them. It seems to me that this could cause problems in various gamemodes. Perhaps switching teams should also reset one's triggers? Although I don't know if this would cause other problems if trigger crates were involved and everyone was supposed to have a trigger on.

Also, does Plus currently allow for a player to be affected by a teammate's tnt?

[Ragnarok!]

You could do that all manually... Though probably youre thinking automatically;

/ptrigger (playernumber) all off [will turn off all triggers on designated player]
/friendlyfire on [works with plusonly, but at the same time, not only TNT will affect team mates then]

[Troglobite]

You could do that all manually... Though probably youre thinking automatically;

/ptrigger (playernumber) all off [will turn off all triggers on designated player]


Yeah, I know you can change triggers manually. I'm just messing around with some conceptual levels on JCS and immediately after a player spawns they can be redirected by various triggers, and I don't think I can type that fast. But the level's probably going to end up too complicated and fairly unplayable, and I guess just doing it manually might be the best solution.

And thanks for /friendlyfire on

[blurredd]

Automatically resetting all of client's triggers has the potential to cause even more problems. I created special trigger zones (see section in readme) specifically to address trigger issues, particularly those dealing with team-based triggers and clients automatically inheriting the server's triggers.

Players changing teams isn't an issue in most levels using team-based triggers since the player will typically pass by the correct trigger zone after respawning. I would assume this a common practice since even if you use what was commonly called the JAIL2 concept (see the Advanced section in this article (http://www.jazz2online.com/hosted/jcsref/node.php?node=33&mode=id&menu=topics)) to get around clients always inheriting the server's triggers, you would probably want to make the level so that a player with bad triggers receives the correct ones after spawning for the second time. If any level you encounter doesn't do this, you may want to tell the author to make the change.

[Dermo]

Hey how about an
/allspaz on|off
/alljazz on|off

It may already exist although I couldn't find it in the command list.

[Troglobite]

Automatically resetting all of client's triggers has the potential to cause even more problems. I created special trigger zones (see section in readme) specifically to address trigger issues, particularly those dealing with team-based triggers and clients automatically inheriting the server's triggers.

Players changing teams isn't an issue in most levels using team-based triggers since the player will typically pass by the correct trigger zone after respawning. I would assume this a common practice since even if you use what was commonly called the JAIL2 concept (see the Advanced section in this article (http://www.jazz2online.com/hosted/jcsref/node.php?node=33&mode=id&menu=topics)) to get around clients always inheriting the server's triggers, you would probably want to make the level so that a player with bad triggers receives the correct ones after spawning for the second time. If any level you encounter doesn't do this, you may want to tell the author to make the change.

Thanks, but my issue wasn't with people inheriting the server's triggers. I just was experimenting with a level myself on a server and passed the team triggers when I was on the blue team, then swapped. Then I passed the triggers for the red team. After swapping, I was able to access both areas normally closed to blue and normally closed to red. But I realize that swapping doesn't normally happen mid-game, and the solution would be much worse than the problem. As an afterthought, you should probably ignore the issue altogether.

On another note, I did also find a problem that would be worth fixing.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/troglobite/JazzDarkForest/plus.png

While testing, I opened two windows and joined my own server. The level had a Jazz/Spaz morph in it. They morphed just fine, but then I killed one while he was still morphed into Jazz. When he respawned, he looked like Spaz again to himself, but on the other screen, he still seemed to be Jazz. Although it didn't affect the gameplay, it was a bit confusing to see Spaz hovering and Jazz uppercutting sideways.

[Jerrythabest]

Bug confirmed. I ran into that while experimenting for the JJ2 Machinima too.

[Dermo]

I like it that way actually it's rather funny.

That's why I join 1.23 servers with TEC then play as Lori. The animations are so weird for the other players it's cool.

[Raven aka StL]

That's as old as a common bug gets.
It's no big deal, so no-one has bothered to lift a finger to fix it.
Although there might be some programs that do.

[Jerrythabest]

*lifts a finger to have it fixed*

[EvilMike]

That's as old as a common bug gets.
It's no big deal, so no-one has bothered to lift a finger to fix it.
Although there might be some programs that do.

The only reason DrMoo is having that sprite bug is because he is using a stupid program to mess around with it.

JJ2+ allows you to join 1.23 servers when running 1.24 (or vice versa) as long as it's enabled in the server. You shouldn't get any sprite problems from this, since JJ2+ fixed that problem a long time ago.

However, if you use some program like TEC to join the server, it will probably give sprite bugs. That's TEC's problem.

[Jerrythabest]

I got the problem simply by joining the server and doing some morphing... so what you are saying there isn't correct.

[Dermo]

he wants it to be synchronized so all the clients look the same to each other. So Jazz doesn't look like Spaz to another player and vice versa. Personally, though, I don't see what the big deal is.

As for EvilMike, i like that unique look I get when I join with TEC

[Grytolle]

I got the problem simply by joining the server and doing some morphing... so what you are saying there isn't correct.
morphing how?

[Jerrythabest]

With a morph box.

[Dermo]

I dont know if this is legal... but fix the issues so that 1.23 and 1.24 can join 1.20 servers. Or make it so that when 1.20 joins a + server, their client is automatically updated to 1.23.

I think 1.20 needs an auto-updater but that's out of the control of 1.23+ that's more list server type stuff.

Could you at least make it so 1.20 can join + servers, then have the person notified that their client is out of date by the server, then have the website given to update their client? You'd have to make it multi-language notification though in the chatbox I guess and in the meanwhile, have them frozen at pos 1,1

IDK This is crazy but I really think something should be done about 1.20 clients.

Also, add the ability to host off of a proxy server :D

[Black Ninja]

I don't think streaming the patch to 1.20 users would be possible and/or something that the user would appreciate.

To patch 1.20 would, I am fairly sure, require a huge amount of code, and I doubt Blur wants to rewrite JJ2+ just for a client version used primarily by pirates.

[Jerrythabest]

It's fine the way it is. They can update if they want. There's Google.The only thing that keeps them from using the Google, is the fact that they are unaware of two things:
1) They don't know there is an update.
2) They don't know that they'll meet so many new friends if they get the update.

Earlier (somewhere on this board), I have posted the idea of using a tool to send an 'update now!'-like chat message in all 1.20 servers every 30 minutes or so. The next reply contained a link to the JCF thread about in-game spam that was sent by a similar tool that had leaked out (one that was still being developed and had no real purpose AFAICT, as I've never seen it ever after). I'm glad there's finally someone else thinking about getting the 1.20 players into the community. And I think the best way to do that, is by telling them there's an update. Just, for Christ's sake, don't leak the program this time.

[FawFul]

as long as i know this gamemode came in an update, it always bothered me.

talking about team LRS or TLRS.

it's the live system. it's very annoying to host this gamemode online, as you have to set a amount of livesperteam, and per player. let's say you have 30 lives per team. that would fit exactly 6 per team with 5 lives each. the problem is, as it's public.. people join and leave. when people join and latejoiners is on.

(turning it off is just as annoying as you have to begin a match together and the people leaving increases more then joining and keep waiting.)

then practically someones or more people's lives decreases to hold the amount of 30. if someone leaves which means lower then 6 people, then you get an awfully big bunch of reserves making the game dure like ages.

what i like to see as a good update is just the normal LRS system implented in TLRS. and then just /reserves that both teams get. that would be easier then typing like thousand commands in 1 match to keep it stable.

[Dermo]

In fact, let's just make it so they can't leave until the game ends.

(I am a fan of Instagib LRS). But late joiners being off is quite annoying and having to constantly type commands is annoying too since you wanna play the game too, not just host it.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of support for 1.20 in this community. Do you people not want this community to grow? I would rather it grow with noobs that can later become experienced then just die down to nothing.

So I do believe that we should draw in as many members as possible.

[Torkell]

Random thought: would it be possible to have a phantom "Get the jj2 patch from $url" server visible only to 1.20 clients?

[FawFul]

In fact, let's just make it so they can't leave until the game ends.

(I am a fan of Instagib LRS). But late joiners being off is quite annoying and having to constantly type commands is annoying too since you wanna play the game too, not just host it.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of support for 1.20 in this community. Do you people not want this community to grow? I would rather it grow with noobs that can later become experienced then just die down to nothing.

So I do believe that we should draw in as many members as possible.

but then you still have the problem people joining the game, making the reserves getting smaller what you may not want. or when reserves aren't there people just get -1 live withouth dieing.

[Raven aka StL]

That is the most insignificant thing about it.

[Black Ninja]

Random thought: would it be possible to have a phantom "Get the jj2 patch from $url" server visible only to 1.20 clients?

I am 100% in favor of this method. It wouldn't be too intrusive, and it's up to them whether or not they patch.

Bear in mind, Dermo, that some people are very averse to software updates and will avoid installing them. Forcing a patch in someone's face is hardly a good way to get them to join our community. ;p

[Cpp]

Forcing a patch in someone's face is hardly a good way to get them to join our community. ;p
Awwwwww :(
Now you ruined my super secret evil plan to hack every pre-1.23 server and forcefully install updates on them. :mad::r
:robo:

[blurredd]

as long as i know this gamemode came in an update, it always bothered me.

talking about team LRS or TLRS.

it's the live system. it's very annoying to host this gamemode online, as you have to set a amount of livesperteam, and per player. let's say you have 30 lives per team. that would fit exactly 6 per team with 5 lives each. the problem is, as it's public.. people join and leave. when people join and latejoiners is on.

(turning it off is just as annoying as you have to begin a match together and the people leaving increases more then joining and keep waiting.)

then practically someones or more people's lives decreases to hold the amount of 30. if someone leaves which means lower then 6 people, then you get an awfully big bunch of reserves making the game dure like ages.

what i like to see as a good update is just the normal LRS system implented in TLRS. and then just /reserves that both teams get. that would be easier then typing like thousand commands in 1 match to keep it stable.

I agree that TLRS needs to be fixed. It's something I've been planning on doing for some time now. While I'm not going to get rid of Lives Per Team (which I might rename to Max Team Lives, I'm still undecided), I do want to add a setting--possibly on by default--that makes the lives per team based on the number of players on the team with more players multiplied by Max Lives. I may also make a setting for max lives specifically for TLRS and an additional setting for the number of lives restored players get.

I have no real problem with a lot of players leaving during the middle of the game. It's going to happen since it's a public server, and it's annoying regardless of game mode. That said, the plus side of having excess reserves is that players who join late have a chance of getting lives. There really isn't a point to have Allow Late Joiners off in a public server, especially for TLRS.

I'm not sure what you mean with your "/reserves" idea, so you're going to have to elaborate.

[djazz]

Random thought: would it be possible to have a phantom "Get the jj2 patch from $url" server visible only to 1.20 clients?

I think this is possible with the JJ2 bot I and Grytolle made, it could join 1.20 servers, post a chat message and leave.
But I don't know if this is the best method.

[Jerrythabest]

Now that was my idea. See post #922.

What Torkell is suggesting (is somewhat more polite as you don't break into their <strike>homes</strike> servers and) involves only server list tweaking. Though it depends on one thing: does JJ2 send some kind of version identification when getting the list? If it does we could best just point to our community and make a special 'Welcome to J2O' page that points them to the JCF, the ERE, some recommended downloads including the 1.23 patch, and of course this thread. Don't tell them about the patch on the list, just about the community ;)

[Grytolle]

I think this is possible with the JJ2 bot I and Grytolle made, it could join 1.20 servers, post a chat message and leave.
But I don't know if this is the best method.
I made a script called spam the noobs once, but I'm too lazy to run it :P It's tucked away in the j2nsm archives though!

[blurredd]

New JJ2+ update. You'll have to use the Plusifier again. Make sure to read the readme.

[Troglobite]

Sweet. From about 2 seconds of testing the new Jazz, I'm already excited. I love the /noseekerammo and /noseekerpowerups commands. The new server list looks nice, and I like being able to see all the details. Also, I was able to join Zeal Alpha without timing out, but not the server by Sfaizst. I guess I have to wait until everyone installs the new version before I can tell if the new plus is truly the solution to my problems, seeing as the read-me says its a mainly server side fix.

[Violet CLM]

Also, I was able to join Zeal Alpha without timing out, but not the server by Sfaizst.

Same. Timmorn's blood, I can join (some) servers! If not host. Amazing.

[Foly]

Verry nice :D

Finely i can put away hamachi and play without cto (when people downloaded it).

[SPAZ18]

Oh, sweet! The new server list display is awesome! :cool:

[Sfaizst]

at 2 of 3 Connections the fix work without problems, on the 3rd connection I have (mobile connection) the Serverlist have not been found, but good job

[djazz]

In the new serverlist, I can't get "Enter adress" working, when press enter it just join selected server

[blurredd]

I didn't change how entering addresses works so it shouldn't have been affected. Keep in mind that if an entered addresses cannot be resolved, it will result in you joining the selected server. I can change this behavior though it's not of any high priority.

Test the address you're trying to use on regular JJ2 and JJ2+, and tell me if there is any difference.

[plunK]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of support for 1.20 in this community. Do you people not want this community to grow? I would rather it grow with noobs that can later become experienced then just die down to nothing.



Thats sooo ironic, because ive been playing over 10 years and i am still a total n00b, and on of the worst players at that XD



Random thought: would it be possible to have a phantom "Get the jj2 patch from $url" server visible only to 1.20 clients?

I likes this

[plunK]

Sorry about double posting first off.


So i updated to the new patch. New server list great, CTO fix great, but now i cant host anymore....Like i dont even show up on the server list when hosting(hamachi mind you)
I have been hosting this way for alsmot 2 years without trouble. I havent changed any settings on the game or my computer or anything. Any ideas...especially considering i have to do some testing for my contest with online gameplay

[Black Ninja]

Wow, the CTO fix seems to work - awesome! I haven't been able to test it from my home yet (and won't be able to for a couple weeks), but it does work over AT&T's 3G network, where it didn't before.

Awesome!

[dermo529]

I noticed an issue. When I try to join with TEC now, it says Version of Server is Different.

Why do you have to ruin my fun, Blur???

[EvilMike]

You don't need TEC any more because according to the readme 1.24+ now lets you join ANY server. Unless I'm mistaken, this also applies to servers which aren't running multiversion.

[Nimrod]

CTO fix works perfectly, been playing at Student Halls at University with no problems :D
Also it now works with hardware DEP enabled which is cool, thanks BlurredD :)

[CrimiClown]

You are God.

[Slaz]

I'm able to play without using jj2udp.exe and port forwarding now, thanks! ;)

[Ragnarok!]

Should be able to play in school now. ;D

[blurredd]

So i updated to the new patch. New server list great, CTO fix great, but now i cant host anymore....Like i dont even show up on the server list when hosting(hamachi mind you)
I have been hosting this way for alsmot 2 years without trouble. I havent changed any settings on the game or my computer or anything. Any ideas...especially considering i have to do some testing for my contest with online gameplay

So you're saying you can't host when you use Hamachi? What if you don't use it? By the way, if you're able to host without Hamachi, you won't need to keep using it to prevent timeouts. Does this DLL (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-test-server.zip) help?

[blurredd]

This is probably a pointless question, but in your jazz2.log, what does the it say is your local IP address after the TCP network starts up?

[blurredd]

I wanted the log from when you used the DLL from plus-test-server.zip (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-test-server.zip).

But anyway, I'm going to assume there isn't going to be an easy ideal solution, so if all else fails, use this quick fix DLL (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-temp-fix.zip). I'll probably add an optional setting in the next update.

[mikeejimbo]

I haven't played Jazz for a long time because for some reason I wasn't able to play online anymore without timing out. This fixed it. It's pretty sweet.

Is there a plan for additions to single player?

[Raven aka StL]

New events (especially enemies) are more or less quite tedious to make at least in comparison to the upsides of making them (save the few that have already/recently been made).

Commands to tamper with settings one couldn't affect before would just be pretty much totally useless.

Single player episodes, new tilesets, levels and whatnot are being made consistently and some real great ones have been made very recently.

Pretty much anything else can be done easily (by anyone), but is pointless or worthless.

And whatever handful of things are left would change the entire game to something else and are thus quite out of the question.

[Violet CLM]

Quatsch. Top of my head:
- Hurt in other directions
- Working "bonus level" field
- No Fire Zone in SP
- More control over bosses (which displays health bar/ends level)
- Fix Area IDs deactivating
- Fix multiple Bollys sprite errors
- Longer waittimes for sucker tubes

[Stijn]

New events (especially enemies) are more or less quite tedious to make at least in comparison to the upsides of making them (save the few that have already/recently been made).

How do you know?

[mikeejimbo]

Quatsch. Top of my head:
- Hurt in other directions
- Working "bonus level" field
- No Fire Zone in SP
- More control over bosses (which displays health bar/ends level)
- Fix Area IDs deactivating
- Fix multiple Bollys sprite errors
- Longer waittimes for sucker tubes

Yeah, this kind of stuff, basically. By the way, I haven't been around in a while - what *has* been done to single player lately?

[Jerrythabest]

The only thing I can think of is <strike>hell</strike> pits.

Though I haven't been playing in a while, so I could be wrong.
New events (especially enemies) are more or less quite tedious to make at least in comparison to the upsides of making them (save the few that have already/recently been made).How do you know?Commands to tamper with settings one couldn't affect before would just be pretty much totally useless.Untrue. I totally disagree. How about /wc? Right now you'll have to restart the game to turn the wallcliming fix on or off. And jjnext doesn't work in co-op mode, so that could be another possibility. Just think a bit more and you'll definitely come up with more of those.Single player episodes, new tilesets, levels and whatnot are being made consistently and some real great ones have been made very recently.Yeah. So why not some Single player new features?Pretty much anything else can be done easily (by anyone), but is pointless or worthless.What can be done easily by anyone? And what renders it pointless or worthless? Really, you're just wasting bandwith and disk space here.And whatever handful of things are left would change the entire game to something else and are thus quite out of the question.Same.

[Raven aka StL]

@Violet: Ok, you win, but 71.43% of those things are useless.
However, this is the one case that is a quesion of opinion and thus let's just agree that you win.
Just to clarify... the ultimate bottomline (which no one will never arrive at) is that without arguments about the aforementioned "questions of opinion"... forums like this would be (-)(-)(-)(-)ing dead.

@Stijn: I'm gonna be as immature as to answer a question with another question...
Do you think/believe it isn't?
I'm sure you can find at least one guy who considers any given step in making events or enemies rather easy, but generally speaking... If one were to build new enemies or events from scratch, not only would one have to animate a series of sprites, but to make each sprite separately.
Even if that isn't the case, animating the sprites and then doing some quick programming (or .ini -- or similar file -- editing, whatever...) isn't something one can simply call easy.
Pretty much all of this varies though, depending on the amount and complexity of the things one wants to do.

@Jerry: You've become the new heavyweight champion of the following things (when replying to a post):

-Stating an opinion about a yes/no matter
-Misunderstanding something that's impossible to misunderstand (in this case "settings")
-Answering with an incoherent word or phrase that's got nothing to do with anything (although I'm sure you did mean something, but once again fail to clarify what you had to say)
-Quoting multiple things in succession finishing with a quoted part of a post that you -- unlike the rest of what you quoted -- replied to
-Changing the point or subject completely wherever it makes the least sense

I see that you've fixed your english though, so huge props with zero sarcasm there.

[Torkell]

Oi, behave.

[plunK]

Quatsch. Top of my head:
1- Hurt in other directions
2- Working "bonus level" field
3- No Fire Zone in SP
4- More control over bosses (which displays health bar/ends level)
5- Fix Area IDs deactivating
6- Fix multiple Bollys sprite errors
7- Longer waittimes for sucker tubes

1- Yes, but its not urgent because you can make them work(ex a spike boll on a wall)
2-100% agree
3-use a transparent bomb scenery, and viola it blocks everything but bombs of course
4-I asked blur the other day about this actually, and he said eventually you will be able to make them enemies not bosses, therefore the end level thing is fixed
5- no comment
6- I disagree, because if the sprites wernt broken you couldnt tell whiuch one has the health bar.
7- Why not?



The only thing I can think of is <strike>hell</strike> pits.
And jjnext doesn't work in co-op mode, so that could be another possibility. Just think a bit more and you'll definitely come up with more of those.Yeah. So why not some Single player new features?What can be done easily by anyone? And what renders it pointless or worthless? .

1- Coop has no cheats, and you can just use level cycle anyway
2- Single player is less important because multiplayer is more important....really. From my various mini-conversations with blur, SP is not being worked on because multiplayer is much more important in the community and because most SP fixes are not really worth the effort.

[Raven aka StL]

Oi, behave.

That was the least trollish or ungentlemanly post in an argument that I have ever made, and less than 3% have I been given note about, be there reason or not.
I won't judge you, but if you feel like judging me, so be it.
However, in so doing, you'll be working against the one thing about forums that matters most and the upside is close to unexistant at best.

[Jerrythabest]

-Misunderstanding something that's impossible to misunderstand (in this case "settings")Please define 'settings' then. I'd like to make sure I understand you correctly before I reattempt to disagree with you on that statement :p




And to bring stuff back ontopic, I say:

SP is important >;(
Just imagine what would happen when the [insert random enemy here] would take down the Information Superhighway?

[Violet CLM]

plunK: If you look at your response to my point #4 you will see it answers your response to my point #6 nicely. Spike bolls are visible, which is against the point, and I think we've been seeing lately the bees event come into question as people start complaining that they cause problems with sugar rushes.

There are significantly more single player uploads on J2O than there are CTF uploads. That's pretty important. Also, changes like the ones I'm suggesting offer actual changes in terms of the possibilities available for JCS users. Most things JJ2+ has done are vague during-gameplay-only tweaks, the main exception being the new gametypes which actually allow JCS users to do new things. If you enable No Fire Zone or Spring Delays in SP, get the bonus level field to work, add a Lori start pos, reinsert the code to have gems give you extra lives, let secret level events specify a position in the secret level to begin in, increase the Rocket Turtle's functionality, even (optionally) remove the Robot Boss' extreme vulnerability to ice, these are actual meaningful changes that allow new level work to be done. That's a lot bigger than being able to bleach someone's name at will.

I understand that blur has his own personal preferences, and while I disagree with them, I respect them and the skill and dedication he has employed so far. I'm not saying that he is a tool and doesn't have the right to determine how he wants to use his knowledge -- this is what I would do if I myself had the tools and knowledge for how to edit JJ2. But I willingly resist other people trying to argue that single player changes are useless or unimportant.

[Raven aka StL]

@Jerry: Settings and commands, and even more so settings and cheats (jjnext being more of a command in itself) are very different.
Settings are things like the low detail on -setting, hardware acceleration etc and how the game works (settings that make the game what it is).
The first can be accessed either from the "Options" in the main menu of the game, or if you have the game in windowed mode, you can find those in the gray bar below the title-bar.
The other 'settings' are stuff like the .ini file and other such files that directly affect the game.

[EvilMike]

I understand that blur has his own personal preferences, and while I disagree with them, I respect them and the skill and dedication he has employed so far. I'm not saying that he is a tool and doesn't have the right to determine how he wants to use his knowledge -- this is what I would do if I myself had the tools and knowledge for how to edit JJ2. But I willingly resist other people trying to argue that single player changes are useless or unimportant.

I pretty much agree with blur's focus on multiplayer, even though I personally would love to see enhancements to SP, and I am more interested in SP than MP. The thing is, any specific addition to JJ2+ is going to see a lot more mileage if it is multiplayer focused. With single player, he basically has to add new features and then hope they get used in levels. Therefore, efforts in this area are better put into bug fixes (the suggestion regarding hurt events and fixing bonus levels is a good example), and features that just happen to work in SP anyway (like death pits).

For a truly useful expansion of single player, the I think the person making the levels should be the one who controls what new features go in. One way to do this would be to mod the game itself, or create a "utility" like what karrotshire has. The latter is a bit easier but less powerful (it's basically just editing memory addresses).

Even better would be a scripting language that allows you to modify game variables and call functions, and I understand something like that is/was being worked on. Though I'm not sure how far along it's come or if there's even plan for a release. In any case it's been attempted before, and if something like that was ever made available, it would be FAR more useful than anything JJ2+ could do. It would allow you to write scripts that do whatever you want for levels, instead of having to write and compile new programs. And if the scripting language was designed properly, you could do crazy stuff like have a level with 20 exits and make it so triggers you activate in one level are carried over to another, to name just two of many possibilities.

[plunK]

plunK: If you look at your response to my point #4 you will see it answers your response to my point #6 nicely. Spike bolls are visible, which is against the point, and I think we've been seeing lately the bees event come into question as people start complaining that they cause problems with sugar rushes.

There are significantly more single player uploads on J2O than there are CTF uploads. That's pretty important. Also, changes like the ones I'm suggesting offer actual changes in terms of the possibilities available for JCS users. Most things JJ2+ has done are vague during-gameplay-only tweaks, the main exception being the new gametypes which actually allow JCS users to do new things. If you enable No Fire Zone or Spring Delays in SP, get the bonus level field to work, add a Lori start pos, reinsert the code to have gems give you extra lives, let secret level events specify a position in the secret level to begin in, increase the Rocket Turtle's functionality, even (optionally) remove the Robot Boss' extreme vulnerability to ice, these are actual meaningful changes that allow new level work to be done. That's a lot bigger than being able to bleach someone's name at will.

I understand that blur has his own personal preferences, and while I disagree with them, I respect them and the skill and dedication he has employed so far. I'm not saying that he is a tool and doesn't have the right to determine how he wants to use his knowledge -- this is what I would do if I myself had the tools and knowledge for how to edit JJ2. But I willingly resist other people trying to argue that single player changes are useless or unimportant.

Wow i feel stupid contradicting myself 2 lines apart >.<

and those are actually all good things (well the rocket turtle is ALWAYS evil)

wait......robot boss has ice vulnerability?


I pretty much agree with blur's focus on multiplayer, even though I personally would love to see enhancements to SP, and I am more interested in SP than MP. The thing is, any specific addition to JJ2+ is going to see a lot more mileage if it is multiplayer focused. With single player, he basically has to add new features and then hope they get used in levels. Therefore, efforts in this area are better put into bug fixes (the suggestion regarding hurt events and fixing bonus levels is a good example), and features that just happen to work in SP anyway (like death pits).

For a truly useful expansion of single player, the I think the person making the levels should be the one who controls what new features go in. One way to do this would be to mod the game itself, or create a "utility" like what karrotshire has. The latter is a bit easier but less powerful (it's basically just editing memory addresses).

Even better would be a scripting language that allows you to modify game variables and call functions, and I understand something like that is/was being worked on. Though I'm not sure how far along it's come or if there's even plan for a release. In any case it's been attempted before, and if something like that was ever made available, it would be FAR more useful than anything JJ2+ could do. It would allow you to write scripts that do whatever you want for levels, instead of having to write and compile new programs. And if the scripting language was designed properly, you could do crazy stuff like have a level with 20 exits and make it so triggers you activate in one level are carried over to another, to name just two of many possibilities.

I like that trigger idea......



but imo: here are the main things SP needs:
-customizable enemey HP's
-boss enemies
-1.23 ability to use larger tilesets
-Lori not failing miserably
-Be able to use lighting and water in the same map

[EvilMike]

but imo: here are the main things SP needs:
-customizable enemey HP's
-boss enemies
-1.23 ability to use larger tilesets
-Lori not failing miserably
-Be able to use lighting and water in the same map

1. It would be an interesting option but less versatile than you think. Shooting enemies is literally the most boring part of JJ2 single player and it's good that they die fast. What makes a level interesting is platforming, exploring, finding secrets, trying not to get hit, etc. Not shooting a turtle 50 times to kill it.

2. That would be a good thing, but again it's pretty limited. It's not easy to use bosses in a way that's creative and challenging because there are only so many of them, and their patterns are all pretty basic. And modifying things beyond simple stuff is extremely difficult and no one is ever going to bother putting in the effort.

3. Use 1.24 if this bothers you. Everyone has it.

4. I like how lori is an utter failure. I want to see some levels designed specifically for that. I've decided if I ever make another SP pack, the story is going to have multiple characters, and in some (possibly all) levels you'll be forced to play as one of them. A level designed specifically around a character's limitations (and advantages) would be interesting, I think. I've already experimented with this a bit by making a spaz-only level, and I like how it opens up a lot of designs that are impossible otherwise.

5. This isn't really single player specific though. One thing that would be neat is to have the clear water that beta JJ2 had. Lighting worked with that, and it also looked a bit better in my opinion.

[Violet CLM]

For Mike's responses to 1 and 2, both probably true independently, but if you combine the two then you get bosses functioning as ordinary enemies (lower its health to a single-digit number, turn off its bosshood), which sounds pretty cool to me.

[Cpp]

Adding a scripting support is very possible, but there are a number of obstacles to overcome when it comes to implementation. I see two different stages here, the first one being an implementation of a scripting engine to a point where it actually works, and the second stage being the standardization. If you only plan to run scripts server side then that's the easy part, but it has many limitations. There are only so many things that server-side scripts can do to clients. For the real showdown you'd want to consider having the clients run scripts as well. When it comes down to running scripts, clients should have fewer priveleges than the server for obvious reasons. There's also a problem here i.e. how scripts interact over the network, how to sync client's scripts with the server's. These design decisions are yet to be discussed.

As for having clients execute scripts, we'll also need an easy way to transfer the given scripts between players. A good way would be to embed the scripts directly into a J2L so that the scripts get executed automatically when j2l is loaded, and that's in a way that doesn't crash games which don't yet support scripting. Another approach which just happens to be my personal favorite is how unreal-based games handle downloads, but that's some extra work. There are also certain security concerns here i.e. you don't want users to put malicious scripts in their levels, waiting for some unsuspecting victims to load them.

I have been working on a prototype scripting language implementation for jj2 recently and my progress is still in the early alpha stage (stage one). I haven't been very active recently, but I'll eventually release a pre-beta for people to play with. It will only support server-side scripts until it's mature enough for stage 2.


You can easily modify properties of any object with a scripting language. The only problem I see here are the limitations of jj2 i.e. you can't go beyond 127 health with this approach. Exit triggers are very possible, in fact you can trigger just about anything with scripted triggers (object spawning, death, music, level change, ammo, powerups, etc).

[Grytolle]

Scripting language will be awesome for single player^^

[Superjazz]

well what does jdc suck again and once again my pc burnsout , trying to put the usb cable of mycellphone in the normal usb front port , and badaboom by bye pc

1 fix the spaz boss sidekic]k abuse
2 make hurt events, work properlty
3 fix some other boss bugs suchas tweedel
4 jj2 plus owns
5 lol

[Sorry, I couldn't resist it.]

[Jerrythabest]

@Jerry: Settings and commands, and even more so settings and cheats (jjnext being more of a command in itself) are very different.
Settings are things like the low detail on -setting, hardware acceleration etc and how the game works (settings that make the game what it is).
The first can be accessed either from the "Options" in the main menu of the game, or if you have the game in windowed mode, you can find those in the gray bar below the title-bar.
The other 'settings' are stuff like the .ini file and other such files that directly affect the game.So you could consider the wallclimbing fix a setting if it appeared in the options. Turning that on or off in mid-game would then be 'tampering with settings one couldn't affect before', and having that possibility is not pointless at all.wait......robot boss has ice vulnerability?lol, I didn't know that either. Just tried it.. that's funny. It unfreezes but it won't move.For Mike's responses to 1 and 2, both probably true independently, but if you combine the two then you get bosses functioning as ordinary enemies (lower its health to a single-digit number, turn off its bosshood), which sounds pretty cool to me.Agreed. That sounds really cool :D3. Use 1.24 if this bothers you. Everyone has it.Although it would be a very nice improvement if 1.23 could handle more tiles, I think Mike is right here. Levels using more tiles than 1.23 can currently handle will be incompatible with 1.23- players, just the same as 1.24 levels are incompatible with 1.23. The only pro I could see, is that 1.23+ would be capable of joining 1.24 servers hosting a level with a large tileset/a lot of tiles.4. I like how lori is an utter failure. I want to see some levels designed specifically for that. I've decided if I ever make another SP pack, the story is going to have multiple characters, and in some (possibly all) levels you'll be forced to play as one of them. A level designed specifically around a character's limitations (and advantages) would be interesting, I think. I've already experimented with this a bit by making a spaz-only level, and I like how it opens up a lot of designs that are impossible otherwise.I'd play that :) Sounds fun. Also, the way you are forced to play a certain character allows for an interesting plot where three stories (each starring one of the playable characters) come together in the end. Many other games (and even more movies) do this already. To name just one: Super Smash Bros: Brawl does that pretty well.5. This isn't really single player specific though. One thing that would be neat is to have the clear water that beta JJ2 had. Lighting worked with that, and it also looked a bit better in my opinion.Yeah :)Scripting language will be awesome for single player^^YEAH :D[Sorry, I couldn't resist it.]Gosh.

[plunK]

Scripting language will be awesome for single player^^

Implementing a scripting languauge would not only open up huge new abilities for JJ2er's to make awesome new events and such, itll also give random people greater access to make crappy new events and mods, overflowing and possibly ruining JJ2, and gives people greater ability to hack and distibute amilcious software via JJ2 scripting.

If this comes out, id restrict it to only those who are loyal community members and are good scripting wise to avoid lame low quality spamming of mods and new stuff

[EvilMike]

Implementing a scripting languauge would not only open up huge new abilities for JJ2er's to make awesome new events and such, itll also give random people greater access to make crappy new events and mods, overflowing and possibly ruining JJ2, and gives people greater ability to hack and distibute amilcious software via JJ2 scripting.

If this comes out, id restrict it to only those who are loyal community members and are good scripting wise to avoid lame low quality spamming of mods and new stuff
this is literally the worst suggestion in the entire thread

[Raven aka StL]

So you could consider the wallclimbing fix a setting if it appeared in the options. Turning that on or off in mid-game would then be 'tampering with settings one couldn't affect before...

...no

[Violet CLM]

I think the chances are very low of people distributing malicious software through JJ2 scripts.

[Troglobite]

After reading http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=18296 it seems that some of this community would be rather vulnerable. Although I agree that it seems rather unlikely.

[Cpp]

I think the chances are very low of people distributing malicious software through JJ2 scripts.
Well, it really comes down to the implementation and design. If you allow the scripting engine to use direct memory access, script writers can likely use this feature to overwrite some variables or function pointers, which is an excellent candidate for buffer overflows and remote code execution. The scripting engine should be implemented carefully to prevent this kind of misuse.

[Newspaz]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but here's something that I have noticed watching 6-12 year olds play Jazz2. Most of them press the windows button in their enthousiasm when they mean to press ALT to jump. This causes the game to jump out of full screen mode and minimize.

In other words, would it be possible to make JJ2+ ignore the Windows button (at least in full screen)?

[plunK]

I wasn't intending to say that scripting was bad, i was just saying beware that some crappier things might be amde form it.

Also, I think that Unknown Rabbits reworder should be looked at as a posible implementation into JJ2+

[Troglobite]

When fighting a boss, could plus automatically display the health bar of the boss which has been most damaged? Or at least the boss who was hit first. This would be quite nice when playing levels with multiple boss events, especially when only one is actually being fought (Like many levels from Devres)

[Jerrythabest]

Now THAT didn't make any sense.




...Or did it? Imagine: in-game level editor... that could have some pros.

[Cpp]

It is theoretically possible to collect the level data from a running jj2 process and then dump it to a J2L. The bigger part here is how to edit a level that is being played. One feature this would bring is a live preview of your level i.e. you could construct the level as you play it and debug certain things on the fly. Then when you're satisfied with the changes, dump the J2L to your HDD.

[Jerrythabest]

Would also be cool to host a JCS server :D So that others can join to see it (that's a live 'making of' :p) and possibly (after getting permission from the host) help building.


That would be a great start for my never-really-started-but-I-did-make-a-thread-for-it-somewhere-on-this-board 'Lets Make A Level' project. Just cut the level into a few pieces and assign those to the participants. While they are able to design their own stuff inside the assigned area, they can easily link up with the areas around them to improve the level's 'flow'.

[plunK]

When fighting a boss, could plus automatically display the health bar of the boss which has been most damaged? Or at least the boss who was hit first. This would be quite nice when playing levels with multiple boss events, especially when only one is actually being fought (Like many levels from Devres)

I agree

It is theoretically possible to collect the level data from a running jj2 process and then dump it to a J2L. The bigger part here is how to edit a level that is being played. One feature this would bring is a live preview of your level i.e. you could construct the level as you play it and debug certain things on the fly. Then when you're satisfied with the changes, dump the J2L to your HDD.

That would be awesome, i spend more than 60% of the time it takes me to build a map testing various aspects. This could prove useful

Would also be cool to host a JCS server :D So that others can join to see it (that's a live 'making of' :p) and possibly (after getting permission from the host) help building.


That would be a great start for my never-really-started-but-I-did-make-a-thread-for-it-somewhere-on-this-board 'Lets Make A Level' project. Just cut the level into a few pieces and assign those to the participants. While they are able to design their own stuff inside the assigned area, they can easily link up with the areas around them to improve the level's 'flow'.

Online grouplevelmaking.......I just see that ending up like Forge in Halo. I think attempting to do a map online as a group, unless its a collab, i dont see many high quality maps coming out of it.

[Jerrythabest]

But it's still cool :p

[blurredd]

Who wants to test stuff that's completely unrelated to the previous discussions (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-ziplevellist.zip)? This is the result of the thread where I requested code for zipping level packs which resulted in Cataphract helping out.

I want people to test out adding levels to the Level List and zipping level packs. Specific differences from Caraphract's program for zipping level packs include prompts in addition to command line arguments, and the ability to append files to existing zip files. You'll have to place plus.exe in your Jazz2 directory.

[Troglobite]

Another unrelated issue. When an idle server hosts, gun barrels always seem to drop only bouncer ammo. Could it be made so that the crate will contain whatever ammo whoever smashed it had? And it would be nice if you saw ammo as you would get it, not as the server has, when it comes to power-ups. (And please, no one respond that this bug is old and minor, and therefore shouldn't be fixed.)

[blurredd]

It would be a lot simpler to just force barrel ammo to always be bouncers only. Though really, barrels and crates need to be fixed altogether which can't be easily achieved with JJ2's current net code.

Anyway, I have other stuff to test. Auto-relist (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-autorelist.zip). Basically the server checks to see if it's still connected to the list server at least every 2 minutes, and when disconnected does a reconnect every 5 minutes. For those interested in hosting dedicated servers, I want to know how often the words "Attempting to relist after disconnect" appear in the Spy Log/jazz2.log.

[Grytolle]

I've been meaning to ask you, blur: Did you have any use for my old internal gip mod-code when making that last jj2+ update? (finding hooks or whatever)

[blurredd]

Yeah, I did.

[Grytolle]

yay kay

[blurredd]

Just to make sure people notice this so that I can get some testers:

New plus.exe features (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-ziplevellist.zip) (see post)

Auto-Relist (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-autorelist.zip) (see post)

[DarkB]

I get this error when trying to zip a lvl.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2080/errorx.png

[blurredd]

I have no idea why the filename extensions are missing in the error messages. What are all the steps you are using to get this problem?

Edit: Never mind, I think I know what the problem is. I'll reupload some time soon.

Edit 2: The problem should be fixed now, so you can redownload the file.

[DarkB]

I have no idea why the filename extensions are missing in the error messages. What are all the steps you are using to get this problem?

Edit: Never mind, I think I know what the problem is. I'll reupload some time soon.

Edit 2: The problem should be fixed now, so you can redownload the file.
It works perfectly ;)
Is there any chance to make at the same time a zip file then that lvl's to be added to lvl list?

[blurredd]

Is there any chance to make at the same time a zip file then that lvl's to be added to lvl list?
It's now possible. Re-download plus-ziplevellist.zip (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-ziplevellist.zip) and see updated zll-readme.txt.

Also, plus.exe now automatically uses an exclude file "plus-exclude.txt" which lists filenames to skip when adding files to the Level List or a zip file. Tell me if I missed a file in plus-exclude.txt.

[DanZeal]

After two days of hosting with the Auto-Relist version, i got "Attempting to relist after disconnect" four times in jazz2.log.
Seems to be working perfectly. Thank you Blurr!

Attempting to relist after disconnect
Warning: Could not connect to List server 'list2.digiex.net'
Warning: Could not connect to List server 'list1.digiex.net'
Server failed to relist
Attempting to relist after disconnect
Warning: Could not connect to List server 'list1.digiex.net'
Warning: Could not connect to List server 'list2.digiex.net'
Server failed to relist
Attempting to relist after disconnect
Warning: Could not connect to List server 'list1.digiex.net'
Warning: Could not connect to List server 'list2.digiex.net'
Server failed to relist
***gameloop ended after 98986 gameticks
Loading level 'All Your Base CTF' (olcallurbase.j2l)
***gameloop started***
Attempting to relist after disconnect
Connected with ListServer list1.digiex.net

[EvilMike]

That auto-relist feature is very cool. Even non-dedicated servers can sometimes fall off the list, for whatever reason.

It would be neat if there was an auto-rehost feature as well, for when JJ2 crashes. Dedicated servers would suddenly become trivial to maintain.

[DarkB]

It's now possible. Re-download plus-ziplevellist.zip (http://www.jazz2online.com/d3/plus-ziplevellist.zip) and see updated zll-readme.txt.

Also, plus.exe now automatically uses an exclude file "plus-exclude.txt" which lists filenames to skip when adding files to the Level List or a zip file. Tell me if I missed a file in plus-exclude.txt.
Cool, it works ;)
also no file is missing from exclude list.

[DanZeal]

Will plus ever make JJ2 able to handle more then 16 connections?
Also a function to limit the number of spectators would be great.

[DarkB]

Will plus ever make JJ2 able to handle more then 16 connections?
Also a function to limit the number of spectators would be great.
I think jj2 can handle 32 conections without problem hm :-?
And to limit spectators I think is possible ;)
Also I agree with Mike with auto-rehost thing, it will be very useful for those who host a dedicated server :)
I think there is allready a program to auto rehost a server like a batch file or something but is only private.

[Grytolle]

jj2 can handle 15 connection (except the server self), and up to 32 players (including the server)

[DarkB]

jj2 can handle 15 connection (except the server self), and up to 32 players (including the server)
and what are those connections ?

[DanZeal]

It would be neat if there was an auto-rehost feature as well, for when JJ2 crashes. Dedicated servers would suddenly become trivial to maintain.

I only had one single JJ2 crash since january on my server, and the reason for that one was probably the way I overclocked the CPU. But that dosent mean other ppl can find a auto-rehost function helpful.

[DarkB]

I only had one single JJ2 crash since january on my server, and the reason for that one was probably the way I overclocked the CPU. But that dosent mean other ppl can find a auto-rehost function helpful.

I think is very usefull for those who have not the server at home or nearly.

[EvilMike]

I only had one single JJ2 crash since january on my server, and the reason for that one was probably the way I overclocked the CPU. But that dosent mean other ppl can find a auto-rehost function helpful.

That's pretty impressive. I don't think I've ever managed more than 30 hours or so.

[DarkB]

If it is possible to change the extensions of the screenshots that are taken in game ;)
It will be better to have a screenshot with extension .jpg or .bmp than a .tga I think :rolleyes:

[Grytolle]

png would be nice<3

[DarkB]

png would be nice<3
Implement a converter in jj2 to make .png .bmp .jpg or whatever you want :p

[XDxP]

Implement a converter in jj2 to make .png .bmp .jpg or whatever you want :p

Yea it is a good idea :rolleyes:
BTW png is rly good and little, and easy to use to make tilesets.

[Czech Sonic]

Good job !!

[Jerrythabest]

How about GIF? Then you could add a feature to capture a few frames in one screenshot.

JJ2's graphics are palette-based after all.

[DarkB]

How about GIF? Then you could add a feature to capture a few frames in one screenshot.

JJ2's graphics are palette-based after all.
This will be more complicated I think, but after all anything is possible ;)

[Nightwolf]

Can I have a screenie to a zombie rabbit in Battle Mode (Pestilence)?

[Kenny]

Version of jj2 not suported :(((. I hav secret files...

[Raven aka StL]

For the record, .gif almost always reduces picture quality without any upside.
.jpg or .png would be recommendable.

[DarkB]

Version of jj2 not suported :(((. I hav secret files...
What version of Secret Files do you have?

[Kenny]

1.24...

[XDxP]

Version of jj2 not suported :(((. I hav secret files...

I think it is an edited version of JJ2 1.24 or dunno. I have 2 1.24 and the first one isnt compatible with jj2+ but the second one is compatible. I dont know why, both of Jazz2.exe are the same.

[Kenny]

I added Xmas chronicles if this matters.

[DarkB]

I added Xmas chronicles if this matters.
Dosen't matters.Also your 1.24 version is not the official version is another version by someone dunno what's his name.

[BlueDragon]

Is it possible to make the End Level event work in Multiplayer Cooperative?

And it would be nice to see some bug fixes and addons to the Race game mode?
Like:
-Cycling Bug Fix
-Make it playable so that the winner who is not the host,to not get kicked by and UFR.
-Editable number of laps.
-Next to the players name there should be a lap counter(how many laps the player has made) and the position hes on(like 1st,2nd,3rd).

Is it possible to make any of this?

[dermo529]

Dosen't matters.Also your 1.24 version is not the official version is another version by someone dunno what's his name.

You probably have the Avalon version of 1.24
PM me...

[blurredd]

Is it possible to make the End Level event work in Multiplayer Cooperative?
Yes.

And it would be nice to see some bug fixes and addons to the Race game mode?
Like:
-Cycling Bug Fix
-Make it playable so that the winner who is not the host,to not get kicked by and UFR.
-Editable number of laps.
-Next to the players name there should be a lap counter(how many laps the player has made) and the position hes on(like 1st,2nd,3rd).

Is it possible to make any of this?
Yes, although I still haven't decided how to detect when a player finishes a lap.

[Grytolle]

Do it jj2-style: when the client sends the server a packet telling him he's won!!

[Kenny]

You probably have the Avalon version of 1.24
PM me...

It mentions about avalon somewhere in the error log...

[XDxP]

When somebody shoot you you ll start blinking. When you are blinking and then you fall into the pit, then the enemy gets the point and it seems if he had killed you. I think it is very annoying.

[FawFul]

i find that actually brilliant. if you play 1v1 you just stand with low health at the pit and you fall in it.. = win

[blurredd]

Violet suggested springs should be able to use delays in Single Player mode. Is there any good reason not allow this for CTF as well?

[Jerrythabest]

Watch out. Here's my opinion again.


Where 'CTF' means 'Multiplayer mode'? Then, no, not at all :) could be a nice feature.
Else, yes, there is. It would be very inconsistent if this only worked on Single Player and CTF. Why not in Battle, Race, (insert long list of all other possible gametypes here)?

[Violet CLM]

No, it's an existing property of springs. See Race3.j2l. The idea is just having it be allowed in all gamemodes, rather than an arbitrary subset.

[blurredd]

Never mind, I'm just going to go through with it, which means any game mode will be able use springs with delays. I asked since I was concerned it might negatively affect existing CTF levels, but the change will probably have a minimal impact.

[EvilMike]

I support allowing spring delay to work for all levels. It's a cool feature, and won't mess anything up if you expand it.

You actually have to have delay set in the spring event's properties, so it won't mess anything up unless the level is supposed to have a delayed spring in the first place.

[DarkB]

I found a thing: When I tryed to add 60 lvl's or so to lvl list through plus.exe it says:http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1295/90399759.png
I think is a bug or something.

[DanZeal]

I'd be happy if the number of spetators could be limited. Maybe as a percent of the total number of players in the server. There could also be a time limit for spectating.

Agree

[blurredd]

I think is a bug or something.
It's an issue with Windows and command line limits (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/830473). So just add fewer levels at a time.

I'd be happy if the number of spetators could be limited. Maybe as a percent of the total number of players in the server. There could also be a time limit for spectating.
I'll see what I can do.

[Robee]

When somebody is dropping carrot, some players see that on the ground, some at the main place (where the carrot event is). I find that annoying when you are trying to get that carrot and suddenly it disappears because somebody is taking that from another place or if you see messages like "nice invisible c". Is possible to fix that?

[Superjazz]

I've also noticed a bug involving rf-ammo boxes and /spawnobjects command. Whenever I play on a level containing those boxes, and the command gets used, these boxes sooner or later stop spawning for me. While the command hasn't been used yet, they seem to spawn for me normally. I haven't tried myself yet but I guess this doesn't at least happen for hosts, and other players just don't care/don't pay attention to that, although they would have experienced it. Practically this is a very minor bug, and I can very well live with it, but I think it should be noted about anyway.

[FawFul]

1.what viv states always happens with clients when i am hosting matches in DW. never really saw it myself tough.

2.i like spectating as it is atm. probably because i idle in ZA and de-spectate when something interesting happens.


also, i mentioned before.. there is some bug on low detail when you cycle a level to something else with (apparently much background layer eyecandy or a bit foreground). it happens often on some levels. i'll post a screen if you never had this before, and want to fix it. it fixes when you turn it off and on again.

[Grytolle]

if splitscreeners play, and one person idles, both get kicked

[EvilMike]

When somebody is dropping carrot, some players see that on the ground, some at the main place (where the carrot event is). I find that annoying when you are trying to get that carrot and suddenly it disappears because somebody is taking that from another place or if you see messages like "nice invisible c". Is possible to fix that?

Basically what can happen is players can easily become "out of sync" in JJ2. One might "see" the carrot fall, and another won't. This can happen for a lot of reasons, one being lag.

Another is the tendency for some weapons to be a bit "random", for example powered up bouncers: that randomness is shown differently on everyone's screen, and can knock down items. Though, only what the server "sees" is actually what can deal damage, which is one of the reasons why a single bullet will often not hurt you.

Finally, there's just the netcode itself.

I imagine fixing this problem would be pretty difficult, without simply making it impossible to shoot down carrots. And that would destroy the gameplay in a lot of levels. One suggestion that I have is that when you shoot them down, shoot it a bunch of times (even if you see it fall on the first one). Even better, use toasters. In theory, that should increase the chances of all the players "seeing" it happen.

[blurredd]

When somebody is dropping carrot, some players see that on the ground, some at the main place (where the carrot event is). I find that annoying when you are trying to get that carrot and suddenly it disappears because somebody is taking that from another place or if you see messages like "nice invisible c". Is possible to fix that?
While I do find this annoying, I wouldn't consider this to be a big issue. It's also not easy to fix, and even with a fix, there might still be some undesirable results when an object is shot down. So basically don't expect changes any time soon.

I've also noticed a bug involving rf-ammo boxes and /spawnobjects command. Whenever I play on a level containing those boxes, and the command gets used, these boxes sooner or later stop spawning for me. While the command hasn't been used yet, they seem to spawn for me normally. I haven't tried myself yet but I guess this doesn't at least happen for hosts, and other players just don't care/don't pay attention to that, although they would have experienced it. Practically this is a very minor bug, and I can very well live with it, but I think it should be noted about anyway.
It's actually not an issue with the /spawnobjects command. It's related to a glitch where a client or the server stomps an RF ammo crate but it only appears destroyed locally. I could've mentioned this problem existed earlier, but ammo crates were already used less often because of other issues.

Just now I figured out that the problem exists because the unique IDs used in the net code by the server and clients to identify objects aren't truly unique. A true fix won't be simple to make, but it will be done eventually.

if splitscreeners play, and one person idles, both get kicked
I still like this feature a lot.

[DarkB]

I'd like to see a vote option in jj+.
When is about 1 min left from the current map admin will select a few maps then put them on screen that people eventualy will vote them.
Also if no admin is in the server the jj+ will put a random of maps at vote and so on..
I think is a good idea :)

[BlueDragon]

I'd like to see a vote option in jj+.
When is about 1 min left from the current map admin will select a few maps then put them on screen that people eventualy will vote them.
Also if no admin is in the server the jj+ will put a random of maps at vote and so on..
I think is a good idea :)

This could also be used for kicking players.So if there is no admin in the server and the host is idle players could still kick cheaters by vote.

And have the vote system be able to turn off and on for each vote.

And maybe let the vote for yes be f1 and for no f2 is it possible?

[Dermo]

not you type votekick2

but the problem is people would bring in clones to force the vote through. And you would get kicked just because they don't like you.

[DarkB]

not you type votekick2

but the problem is people would bring in clones to force the vote through. And you would get kicked just because they don't like you.
the vote option to kick is not good at all...only that with maps.

[DarkB]

And just a small thing, can there be a feature that lets the player run without Shift being pressed or Caps Lock Being on?
I saw this feature in patch that Gry made 2 years ago.It would be good to be implemented in jj+.

[Ragnarok!]

This has probably been brought up before but is there a possibility of making server sizes bigger? It would just be easier to do JDC events and stuff.

[Ragnarok!]

You don't need the playerlist for that, heck I don't really keep th playerlist up when playing 16 players, I don't see why I'd do it with more, and that's what levels like DnC are good for!

Plus, if this was actually implemented, I would go the extra mile and make extra large levels just to suit bigger games. Summit would have been bigger had this been possible =o.

And as for larger screens, yeah it would definately be cooler, as people who play competetively mostly use JJ2+ anyway, and some of our previous cheaters already had/have access to bigger resolutions anyway. It just narrows the gap!

[DarkB]

This has probably been brought up before but is there a possibility of making server sizes bigger? It would just be easier to do JDC events and stuff.
Or just run 2 server's at same time when a JDC event is up ;) The easiest way ;p

[Ragnarok!]

Or just run 2 server's at same time when a JDC event is up ;) The easiest way ;p

It really isn't, we've tried before ;P

[Torkell]

Could we then have the number of connections that could be made through a single IP address cut down to one? There's no point of allowing players to join games with more than one client anyway.
Unfortuantly a) several ISPs use mandatory proxy servers and NAT, and b) what if two people at the same house want to play using different computers, instead of splitscreen? It could be a useful option though

And just a small thing, can there be a feature that lets the player run without Shift being pressed or Caps Lock Being on?
I do remember hearing about other tools that can do this, but I've never tried any with JJ2+.

[Foly]

First, i agree with what torkell says: Some players (like me sometimes) play with a friend/little sister that gets pwnd everytime at 2 computers instead of split screen. So maybe if it would be possible you could do one player for each computer ip or something (I dont know much about all those different ips so im might saying something stupid :D)

Second, the idea of map voting is great. You could turn this on and off with something like /mapvoting on/off. However there would be one problem: How could you know wich maps there are on the serverlist? Or can you choose one map from the hosts file?

Third (im so good at this counting), when you raise the resolution wont you ruin a lot of levels out there?

Last, a suggestion for me: What about a score screen at the end of the level instead of the black screen? So you could check the kills/dies/damage to other players/etc when you finished the game. This could be fore like 5-10 seconds and you could be able to turn it on and off (and ofcourse when you press enter you will skip this, else you'll get more problems with it). And for the map voting you could also put a screen with all maps in a list and a screenshot of the whole lvl + name + filename + tileset + music (ok, the screenshot might be a little unwanted). So the voting screen would come after the scoring screen and you would have a limited time too vote.

[DarkB]

Second, the idea of map voting is great. You could turn this on and off with something like /mapvoting on/off. However there would be one problem: How could you know wich maps there are on the serverlist? Or can you choose one map from the hosts file?
How I sayd before when an admin is on server they will know what lvl's are on the list so they would put a number of lvl's on vote(let's say 5 lvl's)
Also when there are no admin's online server will choose some random lvl's and put on vote.(there will be need an command like this .autovotemap on/off)

Third (im so good at this counting), when you raise the resolution wont you ruin a lot of levels out there?
I think there will not be such a bad change ;)
Last, a suggestion for me: What about a score screen at the end of the level instead of the black screen? So you could check the kills/dies/damage to other players/etc when you finished the game. This could be fore like 5-10 seconds and you could be able to turn it on and off (and ofcourse when you press enter you will skip this, else you'll get more problems with it). And for the map voting you could also put a screen with all maps in a list and a screenshot of the whole lvl + name + filename + tileset + music (ok, the screenshot might be a little unwanted). So the voting screen would come after the scoring screen and you would have a limited time too vote.
I agree with this ;) is a good idea to have a screen at final of the map to see who is on first place at roast or who is on first place at death's and such on.

[BlueDragon]

First, i agree with what torkell says: Some players (like me sometimes) play with a friend/little sister that gets pwnd everytime at 2 computers instead of split screen. So maybe if it would be possible you could do one player for each computer ip or something (I dont know much about all those different ips so im might saying something stupid :D)

This is rely i problem sometimes my bro plays on his computer.There should be a vote restriction like split-screeners would vote and it would count as 1 vote.
And i think the voting could be abused by some who have a proxy.


Second, the idea of map voting is great. You could turn this on and off with something like /mapvoting on/off. However there would be one problem: How could you know wich maps there are on the serverlist? Or can you choose one map from the hosts file?

The maps could be all on the level list if the host or an admin is idle.And if an admin is there he could pick any level from his folder.


Third (im so good at this counting), when you raise the resolution wont you ruin a lot of levels out there?

800x600 is not so big and i think it would be nice to have it.And i think it would only look ugly if you would be playing in a small level.


Last, a suggestion for me: What about a score screen at the end of the level instead of the black screen? So you could check the kills/dies/damage to other players/etc when you finished the game. This could be fore like 5-10 seconds and you could be able to turn it on and off (and ofcourse when you press enter you will skip this, else you'll get more problems with it). And for the map voting you could also put a screen with all maps in a list and a screenshot of the whole lvl + name + filename + tileset + music (ok, the screenshot might be a little unwanted). So the voting screen would come after the scoring screen and you would have a limited time too vote.

This is a good idea but wouldnt the server get out of synic if the host doesn't want to skip the scores but a player does.Wouldn't that kick the player?

And about the score system it would be nice to see an assist counter that would tell you how many assists you got.So you would still get a point in the counter if someone would steal your kill.

[cooba]

when you raise the resolution wont you ruin a lot of levels out there?And i think it would only look ugly if you would be playing in a small level.<img src="http://chaos.foxmage.com/cooba/ghcit_hires.png" />

Happens in like 1% of levels. And <a href="http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=423546&postcount=158">it's not cheating</a>.

[XDxP]

I'd like to see a vote option in jj+.
When is about 1 min left from the current map admin will select a few maps then put them on screen that people eventualy will vote them.
Also if no admin is in the server the jj+ will put a random of maps at vote and so on..
I think is a good idea

This is a rly good idea.

This could also be used for kicking players.So if there is no admin in the server and the host is idle players could still kick cheaters by vote.

And have the vote system be able to turn off and on for each vote.

And maybe let the vote for yes be f1 and for no f2 is it possible?

I think players may abuse this, but the idea is good, too. When someone is cheating in The Server or in Zeal Alpha and there is no admins.. it is very disturbing. BTW this votekick works in Vice City MP, so I think it ll work here, too. Or if this doesnt work, make a comment function (for example /comment [number of the player] [comment here]) and if somebody is cheating you can leave a comment f.e.: speedhack etc. And plus saves these comments to a txt with the commenter's name and IP and the hacker/cheater's name and IP.

On the topic of penalties, I just remembered I had an idea before that the host/admins should be able to optionally specify a reason for a kick/ban. They'd type something like "/ban 2 cheating" and the game would produce a message saying "Player2 was BANNED (Reason: cheating)". It's not that important but some extra information isn't utterly useless.

And just a small thing, can there be a feature that lets the player run without Shift being pressed or Caps Lock Being on?

I like these things a lot. I hate pressing Caps Lock twice and I think all other players hate this, too. This thing makes my life easier.

My idea is a selfkill (!k) because I always get stuck to the wall in The Server and I hate rejoining. And of course, there d be a selfkill on/off.

My second idea is teamchat on/off.

[DarkB]

I think players may abuse this, but the idea is good, too. When someone is cheating in The Server or in Zeal Alpha and there is no admins.. it is very disturbing. BTW this votekick works in Vice City MP, so I think it ll work here, too. Or if this doesnt work, make a comment function (for example /comment [number of the player] [comment here]) and if somebody is cheating you can leave a comment f.e.: speedhack etc. And plus saves these comments to a txt with the commenter's name and IP and the hacker/cheater's name and IP.
I'd like this ;)

My idea is a selfkill (!k) because I always get stuck to the wall in The Server and I hate rejoining. And of course, there d be a selfkill on/off.

My second idea is teamchat on/off.
Or make something that when a player is stucked in the wall jj+ just kill the player but without get the lives or something like this.(btw we allready have this option to turn wallclimbing off or on so it will be imppossible to get stucked)
Also I think the teamchat on/off option is useless because if you want to teamchat you just press shift+t and don't affect's nothing in server.

[djazz]

My second idea is teamchat on/off.

This function is available in JJm already, just do /tc

Edit: This could be implented in JJ2+ too

[DarkB]

This function is available in JJm already, just do /tc
JJm is one thing and jj+ another thing...

[Torkell]

Good point, I never thought of that.
There must be a way be able to identify whether clients connected from the same address are running from different systems, right?
Unlikely, unless JJ2 itself sends its local IP address. The whole point of NAT is to make multiple computers appear to the outside world to be the same.

[Penalty]

Unlikely, unless JJ2 itself sends its local IP address. The whole point of NAT is to make multiple computers appear to the outside world to be the same.Correction!
The whole point of NAT is to be a mere temporary solution to the infamous IPv4 problem where the number of available/public IP addresses is slowly dwindling. IPv6 seems to solve these problems. NAT achieves this by translating the source/destination IP addresses and ports and makes it seem like they all come from a single IP address, but the sub-network is inaccessable to the outside world. This in fact allows multiple computers to use the service and have access to the internet.

Unfortunately NAT also has some undesired side effects - it breaks stuff, prevents many protocols from working properly. Normally there are some workarounds for these problems i.e. port forwarding, but even that has certain limitations. For the address translation to work, the firewall needs to classify each packet passing through the router and assign it to a specific connection. This is normally true for TCP connections where a connection can be in one of the several states i.e. new, related, established, etc. Firewalls that use this kind of connection tracking are called stateful firewalls. A very popular stateful firewall is linux iptables firewall, which lives in many routers today.

[BlueDragon]

What i would like to see in jj+ is that your able to customize the damage of each weapon.I know this is possible since you can edit the damage of the tnt.(/tntdamage <-6 to 7>).And there power-ups.

[blurredd]

...

I'll consider implementing 800x600 if you guys will just (-)(-)(-)(-) about higher resolutions once and for all.

[Torkell]

Correction!
The whole point of NAT is to be a mere temporary solution to the infamous IPv4 problem where the number of available/public IP addresses is slowly dwindling. IPv6 seems to solve these problems. NAT achieves this by translating the source/destination IP addresses and ports and makes it seem like they all come from a single IP address, but the sub-network is inaccessable to the outside world. This in fact allows multiple computers to use the service and have access to the internet.
Objection!
NAT can also be used in a many-to-many mapping, which is handy if you want a set of devices to have a consistent internal view of IP addresses no matter what network they're actually connected to. But that's well beyond home router territory.

[EvilMike]

I'll consider implementing 800x600 if you guys will just (-)(-)(-)(-) about higher resolutions once and for all.

If only. They'll just start begging for 1024x768.

[Stijn]

What about 1920x1080, so I can play it full-screen at native resolution

[Jerrythabest]

This is a good idea but wouldnt the server get out of synic if the host doesn't want to skip the scores but a player does.Wouldn't that kick the player?I think it wouldn't, as long as the server doesn't wait like 20 seconds or so. Right now, when a level finishes you see this EOL screen with gems and the animation of yourself running out of the screen. It stays there for a few seconds, but you can skip it by pressing Fire. If a client skips it and the server doesn't, the client will wait for the server at the Downloading... screen. I know this quite well because I always start tapping Fire as soon as a level ends. So it would be nice to give that EOL screen a real purpose.



And a note on the ever growing need of high resolution JJ2:
-I'd say allow 800x600 as the maximum resolution for all current levels. Things have advanced way beyond 640x480 by now and most levels should work with it.
-Implement a little user-definable blacklist of levels that are incompatible with resolutions above 640x480. Servers should pass it on to clients to prevent cheaties.
-Define a list of new resolutions that could be used*. Level creators should be able to specify their level's maximum resolution (possibly through an event, which would be much like Battery Check handles water colors in a level, but if it's possible it would be neater to stuff it right into the J2L), which defaults to 800x600. The new resolutions should appear as DirectDraw modes in JJ2+. If technically possible, I'd prefer to eliminate the windowed mode resolution list and make JJ2 a truly resizable application, limited only by the current level's max resolution setting. Otherwise just implement the new resolutions the same way as we've always got the tiny ones.
-Usage of higher resolutions should be turn-on/off-able for the whole server in a server command, dropping back to 640x480.



*Some I could come up with (feel free to add):

4:3 resolutions:
1280x1024 4:3.2 (slightly more square than the others)
1280x960 4:3
1152x864 4:3
1024x768 4:3
800x600 4:3
768x576 4:3
640x480 4:3

Wide resolutions (16:9 is widest):
1920x1080 16:9 (HD :D)
1680x1050 16:10
1600x1024 16:10.24
1600x1000 16:10
1600x900 16:9
1360x768 16:9.035294118
1280x768 16:9.6
1280x800 16:10
1280x720 16:9
1088x612 16:9
1024x600 16:9.375
960x600 16:10

EDIT: when you think of it... introducing JJ2 to the World of Wide screens could possibly provide very interesting level design possibilities.

[EvilMike]

What about 1920x1080, so I can play it full-screen at native resolution
Wide screen is a good idea. Though this particular resolution would be very difficult to make work. Once you get above a certain size, the game kind of starts to break down, and the only thing that works 100% of the time is the menu. The hacks I've seen that don't crash tend to have problems with displaying graphics properly at resolutions this high (lots of sprite errors, tiles showing up in weird spots, textured bgs being messed up...). Though this may have been fixed by now.

More significant is the fact in offline mode, most objects that are 30 tiles away from you are removed (to see this in effect, jjnowall outside the edge of a level). This means any resolution that is too big in any direction will have problems. This can probably be worked around, but it would likely cause other problems in the process.

Basically, 800x600 can be hacked in without much of a problem (it's been done already), and so can others that are around that size; but beyond that, the bigger you get, the more work it takes.

However, this isn't going to stop people from demanding more and more, or demanding weird things like in the post above this one.

[Troglobite]

What i would like to see in jj+ is that your able to customize the damage of each weapon.I know this is possible since you can edit the damage of the tnt.(/tntdamage <-6 to 7>).And there power-ups.

I agree. I liked the seeker specific command in the most recent update, and would love anything that would allow for more control over which weapons can be used and how much damage can be done. This could possibly even allow for wild new gameplay.

Last, a suggestion for me: What about a score screen at the end of the level instead of the black screen? So you could check the kills/dies/damage to other players/etc when you finished the game. This could be fore like 5-10 seconds and you could be able to turn it on and off (and ofcourse when you press enter you will skip this, else you'll get more problems with it). And for the map voting you could also put a screen with all maps in a list and a screenshot of the whole lvl + name + filename + tileset + music (ok, the screenshot might be a little unwanted). So the voting screen would come after the scoring screen and you would have a limited time too vote.

This would be awesome. Possibly my favorite suggestion since the last update. I think more stats are almost always good, as they give players goals to strive for. They could also keep less skilled players from feeling discouraged if they won some award despite losing by a large amount. If stats like favorite weapon or something were included, it could also give players a better sense of their playing style and how to improve.

This could also be used for kicking players.So if there is no admin in the server and the host is idle players could still kick cheaters by vote.

And have the vote system be able to turn off and on for each vote.

And maybe let the vote for yes be f1 and for no f2 is it possible?

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't like a kick player vote. I feel it would be abused greatly, and I would much rather see more cheat protection added to solve such problems.

I'd like to see a vote option in jj+.
When is about 1 min left from the current map admin will select a few maps then put them on screen that people eventualy will vote them.
Also if no admin is in the server the jj+ will put a random of maps at vote and so on..
I think is a good idea :)

Voting for maps would be cool. I don't imagine this would be as prone to abuse, as I don't think many people would be motivated enough to vote a ton of times. And I think this could easily be prevented. Don't allow people who have joined in the last 3 minutes join or something.

[Black Ninja]

Regarding resolutions, 800x600 makes sense - it doesn't mess things up too bad. Anything higher than that isn't really necessary for JJ2, though.

I might mention widescreen resolutions one more time, though - JJ2 is one of those games that looks pretty ugly when stretched to fill a 16:9 (or 16:10 in my case) aspect ratio.

[Jerrythabest]

I might mention widescreen resolutions one more time, though - JJ2 is one of those games that looks pretty ugly when stretched to fill a 16:9 (or 16:10 in my case) aspect ratio.I agree with that. (That's why native widescreen support would be cool!) What i do right now is this:
-I minimize all programs except JJ2 and right-click the taskbar and choose to tile the open windows (this way JJ2 will get maximized without actually maximizing, so that it will still be resizable).
-Then, I grab the left or right edge of the window to shrink it. As JJ2 runs at a 4:3 resolution by itself, it automatically jumps to a perfect 4:3 ratio window that fills the screen vertically.

[DarkB]

I agree with that. (That's why native widescreen support would be cool!) What i do right now is this:
-I minimize all programs except JJ2 and right-click the taskbar and choose to tile the open windows (this way JJ2 will get maximized without actually maximizing, so that it will still be resizable).
-Then, I grab the left or right edge of the window to shrink it. As JJ2 runs at a 4:3 resolution by itself, it automatically jumps to a perfect 4:3 ratio window that fills the screen vertically.
Yea this actually happens when chose 'Tile windows vertically or horizontally' also when chose the 'cascade windows'.
When try to resize it returns to normal windowed mode.

[yoda]

Can someone give full list of the command line arguments?
EDIT : The most important thing to me is setting game mode via command line, ana is it possible to add some more level lists

[Black Ninja]

I agree with that. (That's why native widescreen support would be cool!) What i do right now is this:
-I minimize all programs except JJ2 and right-click the taskbar and choose to tile the open windows (this way JJ2 will get maximized without actually maximizing, so that it will still be resizable).
-Then, I grab the left or right edge of the window to shrink it. As JJ2 runs at a 4:3 resolution by itself, it automatically jumps to a perfect 4:3 ratio window that fills the screen vertically.

I did that for a while, but the latest Nvidia driver controls make it fairly easy to have JJ2 run fullscreen while preserving the aspect ratio (and I'm sure the ATI drivers probably have something similar). For now I'm just doing that; running in a window kinda sucks for me as 'alt' is usually my jump key.