That's not true.

However, it is indeed true that a lot of people play JJ2 without ever coming here. With a bit of mouth-to-mouth advertising (hey, it's how J2O became popular) it won't be hard to let them know of the ladder.

Cups are MUCH more differently then ladders (and much more competitive). For ladders a huge AND active userbase is a required piece of work. Jazz Jackrabbit fails in both.

Originally Posted by Nimrod

I fully understand peoples feelings inregards to ladders and stats, I myself when playing on Xbox Live tend not to play in Ranked Servers as I find its too competetive and more about points than fun.

Then again you see I have a choice, I dont have to play Ranked Games, and it would be the same if Reptile ever managed to actually pull this off in JJ2, people could easily ignore his system and play online using the old fashioned way for fun if they so wished. So to be perfectly fair, there is no reason to even mention about not liking stats, its simple, don't play on his system when it comes out.

Then the community will be split, that's ever worse.

we have a split community already (1.23/1.24) so then we'll have four communities

I'd suggest making a three-month poll to see how many people are interested in playing this ladder system, how many are interested in watching others playing and how many are not interested at all and will just ignore the system. And maybe another poll too just to see how long people think it will be alive.

Check for people who will use your product first, else it will fail for sure.

no

Well, whatever? If R3p and few other motivated people want to run this ladder, then why not? Will you forbid them that? ;P How? ;p
Just give it a try, I don't think we can lose anything, and the idea is great. And yes, it's likely that there might occur problems with the activity but we won't know that untill the ladder starts.

After reading all the post I came with a conclusion that this might not be a good idea, jerrys point mostly became intresting , there isn't much people who play jj2 , and as it seems half the people at the moment don't seem to like the idea , it will split the community.

I just think there isn't much people to apply for this ladder , and if they do it will split the community up a bit. so In coclusion i don't think this is a good idea.

But im just one person with my own opinion

This community is barely ever supportive of initiatives like this. Everyone's always like "you won't get enough people anyway", "why bother, this game is dead", et cetera. If Reptile wants to set this up what's wrong with that? Can't you just wait and see whether it works before judging it? Why would it split the community anyway? It's not like people who join the ladder will suddenly refuse to talk to people who don't or something.

People need to be a bit more open-minded here.

stijn, this has nothing to do with being openminded at all. I don't get it why your so optimistic and closed minded about this situation. This is being about being realistic. I Still haven't seen a solid reason here why it should work, why should people invest expansive time to make this a succes if all basics of an active ladder has been cursed away in JJ2 before it even started?

Yes, JDC works. But JDC is not a ladder but more league and is seasonal based.

So as ive said before, don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of competitive gaming in any type of game, but this seriously can't work.. the 2 basic needs of a ladder is.. active + the massive.. Jj2 misses both. A working ladder needs atleast 50 solid teams/players to make it work. How-ever, it still doesn't mean it couldn't die off over time.

What i know from experiance is that ladders are the least favorite competitive gaming tournament there is. There is a great list of reasons why people start to dislike ladders and prefer Cups or Leagues.

Originally Posted by Stijn

This community is barely ever supportive of initiatives like this. Everyone's always like "you won't get enough people anyway", "why bother, this game is dead", et cetera. If Reptile wants to set this up what's wrong with that? .

What's wrong is that this community is barely ever supportive of initiatives like this. And such initiatives run on community participation.

I spoke with R3ptile recently and suggested he should try working in small steps; to get something basic released first and see how the community reacts, and if it's a success then there is no reason not to add more updates and get something like battle.net.

After all, we lose nothing even if it fails.

those who seem worried about activity the most don't play jj2 a lot. there are many jj2 players these days, it's just that very, very few of them visit the JCF regulary. i do my best to keep them informed about the ladder project all the time and they all seem very eager.

the community would not split, the program could not let it happen.

cheer up

Originally Posted by Stijn

This community is barely ever supportive of initiatives like this. Everyone's always like "you won't get enough people anyway", "why bother, this game is dead", et cetera. If Reptile wants to set this up what's wrong with that? Can't you just wait and see whether it works before judging it? Why would it split the community anyway? It's not like people who join the ladder will suddenly refuse to talk to people who don't or something.

People need to be a bit more open-minded here.

I think your a little confused on what I mean , by splitting the community up I mean slitting them up on online play , also its not good when hard work goes to waste , thats why some people don't want r3p and others to waste there time.
I was just saying what I think , it might be a good idea after all.

Originally Posted by ShadowGPW

You seriously think people will keep on playing against you after you crushed them 5 times in a row? Especially if you want to make it to 500 within 2 months. I seriously doubt you will make it to 500 in that short period of time. You can bet on that.

You're acting like theres only two people playing a day, have you honestly played the game since the list server redirect?

He has.

Originally Posted by ShadowGPW

stijn, this has nothing to do with being openminded at all. I don't get it why your so optimistic and closed minded about this situation. This is being about being realistic. I Still haven't seen a solid reason here why it should work, why should people invest expansive time to make this a succes if all basics of an active ladder has been cursed away in JJ2 before it even started?

Okay, I'm extremely pessimistic, but what you said doesn't make sense to me. Are you investing any time? Will it HARM you if this doesn't work? If someone wants to set it up, let them. Personally, I don't see why you would bother getting yourself involved in something that won't affect you unless you want it to.

Go B.net-like ladder system! I might actually go online if this happens.

Originally Posted by n00b

You're acting like theres only two people playing a day, have you honestly played the game since the list server redirect?

I do, more as you think and are able see. Don't start up conclusions about me if you don't know me at all.

I'm only giving my advice here from what I know and from what my experiance is with other games out there. Trust me, my experiance with online tournaments/cups/ladders, I sincerly know what i'm talking about. Perhaps more then anyone else here.

How-ever Ill also give some value advice if the project does get on the roll. Unless people want to figure some of the traps you will encounter them-selfs.You can easly flame me about it and slash me off (Thats the easy road on the net). But you could also take my words as a learning curve what to do with it to prevent one of those problems and actually think about it.

Shadow, you're 23. Surely you'd prefer to see a ladder that is actually a ladder. These guys don't. They're kids. It's a children's game. What they want from it is just a few scores to have something to brag of. It's motivative. On the WC3 ladder, you'd be something like 1964th even as a good player. On a JJ2 ladder you'd be 13th. It's not supposed to work (the same way), it's just supposed to be fun.

Rep also (tried) approaching me on regards of drawing icons. I'm not doing anything until I see a working system, and by then maybe just a few.

first of all most JJ2 players are not kids. secondly this ladder will indeed be a ladder and it would work almost the same way. there is a small difference that in WC3 a few people also play for money. jj2's population might be smaller but this has its own advantages as well. i still think you could find at least five opponents in your level at any time. also, you seem to miss the whole purpose here. if we just wanted something to brag of, we could stick to JDC where it's way easier to win. you barely have anything to brag of when it comes to jj2, it's not like your girlfriend would be more proud of you if you would tell her that you beat Cracco Clan in a duel.

by the way, i don't think a WC3 player ranked 13th would consider a player ranked 1964th "good". that's the way it works in jj2 as well.

Originally Posted by R3ptile

by the way, i don't think a WC3 player ranked 13th would consider a player ranked 1964th "good". that's the way it works in jj2 as well.

Yeah, but the ratios and fractions are mixed up. Number 13/2000 might say that number 1964 sucks, but saying that when you are 13/2,000,000 to 1964/2,000,000 wouldn't be right. You're directly comparing apples to oranges. They're 2 different things.

And next time, I'll explain about trigonometry.

dude your post doesn't make much sense but k

Just because WC3 has a bigger userbase, it doesn't mean their top players have taken the game closer to the limit than us jj2ers. A ladder can be fun even without a 20000000 noobs like MoonB..I mean noone in specific.. running around accomplishing nothing.

Originally Posted by R3ptile

first of all most JJ2 players are not kids. secondly this ladder will indeed be a ladder and it would work almost the same way. there is a small difference that in WC3 a few people also play for money. jj2's population might be smaller but this has its own advantages as well. i still think you could find at least five opponents in your level at any time. also, you seem to miss the whole purpose here. if we just wanted something to brag of, we could stick to JDC where it's way easier to win. you barely have anything to brag of when it comes to jj2, it's not like your girlfriend would be more proud of you if you would tell her that you beat Cracco Clan in a duel.

In my eyes, most of the players on JJ2 are kids or at least behave like it. That's only offensive if you find being called a kid one. You may be surprised how many people that share that vision.

As for how far the ladder goes, nowhere without the support. I think it's a good idea. Not everyone thinks the same. Only few is supporting you so far. Be more open minded in regards to critique and you might get it going.

What Shadow says about the ladder system comparison is true, we can't make matching system based on levels at all and chances of it filling more than 1 page of players aren't that big.

Also, a ladder without matching systems or prize money is the same as a permanent JCF scoreboard as we're not going to be able to edit the way players join an online game.

Originally Posted by R3ptile

by the way, i don't think a WC3 player ranked 13th would consider a player ranked 1964th "good". that's the way it works in jj2 as well.

And in response to this, I do hope you realize climbing a ladder isn't just about being good it's also about how much time you have to play games.

look man, it's obvious you are here just to find something to complain about. have you played jj2 during the last year that you pretend you care? you barely know about the situation. you also make it sound like your false statemens are facts.

see ya in 4 months, then we'll see how this project has turned out.

Originally Posted by R3ptile

look man, it's obvious you are here just to find something to complain about. have you played jj2 during the last year that you pretend you care? you barely know about the situation. you also make it sound like your false statemens are facts.

see ya in 4 months, then we'll see how this project has turned out.

If you stopped being so annoying and rude all the time people might just support it a little. I'm not complaining. I do care. But I will certainly stop trying to reason with you now.

Have fun running a community project with the community you neglect.

oh, so you could have just posted "i hate u" and avoid all of this from the beginning

and btw, everyone except for two or three who don't even play jj2 support me and this concept completely

Kids play jj2. REAL MEN PLAY WC3!!!!!

seriously though, this guy keeps talking about the "maturity of the community" (huh?) but just look at his whole attitude, does it seem mature? not to mention the very maturity of the WC3 players as someone who's played the game for a while.

Your attitude is not very mature either.

btw, changing how players join the game is not impossible

as i said, gry:

Originally Posted by R3p

you make it sound like your false statemens are facts

R3ptile, this is a discussion forum. If you're just going to reply the equivalent of "you suck" to every poster who disagrees with you, whether their points are valid or not, you're not posting in the spirit of this forum. Please stop attacking anyone who replies, since it's getting close to trolling. You don't have to agree with them - or even respond. But your current method of discussion is unwarranted and you will find further posts like that moderated.

personally i think that this concept is really nice, if it works

so lets see what happens

I dunno... I think the community is quite mature, but the people who play JJ2? A lot probably aren't on the forums. Oh well. I might be able to help for a web-page, but that's all.

I could help shouting "everyone should try it"

now just go and make that system, I started to become curious what it will be like ;p

if you're so eager to help you could try and find a person who'd program this

wasn't there already a programmer?

i'm not sure, let's just wait for Mono's final statement

I've been looking for ages for a programmer too so don't expect me to find one