Sweet, my forum account is finally working.

http://www.mediafire.com/?uonzm5uh3jz

That's a BR level I made when I heard that more were needed. My issue is that I dunno how to set it up for a custom gametype like BR. I have all the team-specific animating tiles in place, but no triggers on them yet. I was hoping you guys could help me figure out if this level's even really worth it, and if so, maybe help me out on the "coding" or whatever it is.

(Also if you think it looks too plain and feel like adding some eye candy feel free. That's not necessary obviously, but I was just never very good at making levels look extravagant.)

Thanks.

First of all, bank robbery is a very old concept. Some of the stuff used in the levels back then is no longer necessary. For example, the original BR levels had built-in time limits using complex trigger systems. This sort of thing is now obsolete.

The only thing your level needs is a way for points to be scored using coins. You can create this by copying another level, quite easily. The second thing that is needed is to seperate the attackers and defenders: for example, defenders should not be allowed to enter the attackers base. This is also easily done with very basic triggers. Once you manage this, you will essencially have a working BR level. Don't worry about more complex things: to switch the attackers and defenders, all that you need to do is make two versions of the level, one of them with the start positions swapped. Both levels hosted one after the other will constitute a single match. Nice and easy, and I strongly advise you use this method over the more advanced one seen in older levels.

I still have a soft spot for crazy triggers like in old BR.

Have people used crazy triggers in the last few years even? I haven't seen something like trigger mini-game levels in forever.

I do whatever it takes in Single Player. Making two versions of the same level is a ridiculous proposition, though. Just throw in some triggers and let the host decide who's going to be the attacker. (Personally, I'd keep the time limit in there too, but I guess there's some crazy JJ2+ stuff that does that now?)

Hmm... Yeah, I understand the scoring, I've already got that set up correctly I'm pretty sure. In fact really the only thing I'd never seen before was the team-specific walls. I assumed it was something JJ2+ related, but if it's really that basic I'll go check it out and see if I can recreate it.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit

Just throw in some triggers and let the host decide who's going to be the attacker. (Personally, I'd keep the time limit in there too, but I guess there's some crazy JJ2+ stuff that does that now?)

Having triggers decide who attacks and who defends is better than having two versions of the same level. However, using triggers also makes things more complicated, which could be hard for a new JCS user.

As for the time limit thing, JJ2+ handles that easily. It's one of the most basic server-hosting features it has. Trigger-based time limits are now an overcomplicated, extremely limited, bug-prone, and backwards way of doing things, and shouldn't be used in newer levels unless there is some special need for them.

These days, JJ2+ simplifies level making quite a bit when it comes to custom gametypes. I don't really miss the extremely complicated trigger systems that used to be required. Everything was so much more clunky back then, and never worked half the time.

Originally Posted by Leus AKA Simba

In fact really the only thing I'd never seen before was the team-specific walls. I assumed it was something JJ2+ related, but if it's really that basic I'll go check it out and see if I can recreate it.

Without JJ2+, team-based routes are somewhat complicated to make. When clients initially spawn in level, they automatically receive all of the server's triggers. This causes problems that aren't immediately noticeable when testing a level offline.

Say you wanted to use trigger 1 where having the trigger off opens routes only for the blue team and having the trigger on opens routes only for red team. You would have to use team start positions that couldn't be reached by the other team. Next to each of those start positions would be trigger zones with ID=1 that cannot be avoided by the spawning players, and those trigger zones would be set to "off" for blue team and set to "on" for red.

When a client spawns initially, he/she will receive the server's triggers. So if the server is on the blue team and the client is on the red team the client, the client is likely to start with routes that only the blue team is meant to use. The typical way of getting around this issue is to delay the spawning players with tubes for around five seconds before they activate the team-based trigger. More complicated levels have the delay only occur the first time a player spawns.

However, JJ2+ allows for a special team trigger that is automatically turned off for blue team and turned on for red team, so a delaying mechanism is not needed. You'll still have to use trigger zones next to isolated team start positions though. Just place a trigger zone event with the trigger ID you want to use two tiles to the left of the bottom-right corner.

With that said, some concepts still require some delaying mechanism even if you're using JJ2+, so use your own judgment.

Also, it's important to know that JCS does not always have the trigger zone event in a usable form. Go into JCS and create a generator for event 246. If it appears and something like "DO NOT USE," open the JCS.ini file, find
246=EMPTY |+| |DON'T |USE
and replace it with
246=Trigger Zone |+|Trigger |Trigger|Zone|TriggerID:5|onoff:1|switch:1

This will allow you to place the trigger zone event. When a player enters the tile containing this event, a trigger can be activated, almost like smashing a trigger crate. The trigger ID setting does the same thing as trigger ID does for a trigger crate, except it will not work if it's set to 0. The onoff setting will cause the trigger to act like it normally does when the corresponding crate is smashed if it is set to 1. If set to 0, it will reset the trigger scenery to how it was before any trigger zones or crates of the same ID were used. The Switch setting can cause one trigger zone to work for both on and off, which makes it much harder to control. This should usually be left at 0.

Originally Posted by BlurredD

However, JJ2+ allows for a special team trigger that is automatically turned off for blue team and turned on for red team, so a delaying mechanism is not needed. You'll still have to use trigger zones next to isolated team start positions though. Just place a trigger zone event with the trigger ID you want to use two tiles to the left of the bottom-right corner.

With that said, some concepts still require some delaying mechanism even if you're using JJ2+, so use your own judgment.

So if my map is 128x64 I'd place a trigger zone at 126,64 with ID 1, then I'd place trigger scenery ID 1 over the entrances to red base, blue base, and the coin vault, but I'd want the tiles at the blue base and coin vault to have the open tile first and the entrance to the red base have the closed tile first?

That's how I interpreted it, but that doesn't include needing trigger zones next to isolated start positions so I think I missed something.

If you are using the special team trigger with the vault, you can't have teams switch between attacking and defending within the same level. Since each team cannot access the other team's base, the start positions at each team's base are sufficiently isolated, and so you can place the appropriate trigger zones around each of the start positions.

Please note that when the special team trigger is used and a client spawns for the first time in the level, the server still sends all of its triggers to client except the trigger ID belonging to the special team trigger is adjusted according to the team the client is on.

Alright I think the map is functional now. I ended up just using the old trigger system but it seems to be working when I test it alone. So should I try to get some people to test it with me or should I throw it up? And if so, who wants to test it? Lol.

Also how powerful is the server in JJ2+? I have a crate that switches the start warps but it's not like directly accessible... So can the server access it? Lol.

With trigger commands, yes.